Episode 2 – Mental Health: Let It Out, Baobei (Part 1 of 2)
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Full Transcript (Note: Transcribed via AI, may contain errors)
Angela Lin 0:09
I’m Angela Lin.
Jesse Lin 0:00
And I’m Jesse Lin.
Angela Lin 0:10
And welcome to, but where are you really from? Obviously, we are all still stuck in quarantine Trump announced that the whole country is to shelter in place until the end of April now at least. And so we have to try to stay sane. Let’s talk about how we’ve been trying to stay socially connected with people in this totally in your house environment.
Jesse Lin 0:43
Yeah, honestly, there have been like a lot of really cool things and different ways people are staying connected. I did a zoom workout the other day with some of my friends, which is a lot of fun. Yeah. So generally just basically using the tools we already have to try to keep as connected We can’t without actually seeing each other person and I think people are taking that to really interesting streams and like cool things like people doing like online raves
Angela Lin 1:09
Have you done it or you just um you just heard of it?
Jesse Lin 1:12
the raves thing so I will plug is called club quarantine. I have not done it yet, but I really want to do it
Angela Lin 1:18
how does webcam raving work? Like do you actually share your video? Or is it just that they are like DJing live and then you’re dancing off camera like by yourself.
Jesse Lin 1:30
So I think with the zoom, the people who are like the headliner DJ basically like can mute everybody and they just play their own music, but you can see the people who want to be seen and they’re just kind of like partying in their own apartments. But some of the people are like dressed to the nines, like I’m following the stories like people are, like super, super dressed up just partying in their own homes, and it’s their only chance to dress up. That’s true. You want to take yourself out somewhere nice.
Angela Lin 1:58
I honestly think the most Fun social like virtual thing I’m doing right now is when you me and Karen do Mario Kart and we we do we do the Mario Kart online where Jesse totally smokes us because Karen and I are like equally average Mario Kart and Jesse is like, so far ahead of us that we never see his character in the game after we take. But yeah, we do that and then FaceTime each other so that we can hear each other like personalities.
Jesse Lin 2:29
Yeah, it’s fun.
Angela Lin 2:31
It’s cool that people are trying we’re all trying right to stay connected to not feel so alone during this time. I definitely talk to people more especially via video than I would otherwise even though like I should have been doing this all along. Even without
Jesse Lin 2:49
it’s so funny now though, because the quarantine is now like socially acceptable to just did anyone and be like hey, what’s up girl like how you doing? But before people like Why are you calling me like why are we meeting up and realize where Haven’t seen you in forever. But now people are like, whatever. That’s cool. It’s cool though. It’s good that people are looking out for each other and making the best of the situation right now.
Angela Lin 3:21
Our main topic today is something that’s pretty near and dear to us. It’s definitely played a big role, I think in both of our lives. So we’re going to talk about mental health and the importance of therapy in our lives. Given the the background of our podcasts and the way that we’re trying to bring our perspective on each of these episodes, it would be helpful for us to first start with the influences that our Asian upbringing has had on the way that we look at mental health and how we like it. first started to think about it before having our own personal experiences with it. So let’s talk about how, in general, talking about your mental health talking about going to therapy is something that’s totally taboo for Asians.
Jesse Lin 4:16
Yes, it definitely is. It’s 100%, something that I never talked about to any of my family members when I was growing up. So much so that honestly, I probably didn’t even know what like a talk therapist or psychologist was until maybe middle school or high school when you started to actually study those topics, but like those particular fields of medicine were like not really a thing. Like it just didn’t really exist for me and my family, either. How about you?
Angela Lin 4:48
Yeah, same. What’s interesting is that my brother actually studied psychology as major in college. And what’s interesting is, I feel like My parents were more chill with him having that major as like a, like an educational standpoint, but when we would have big serious issues within our family and my brother would bring up like, we should probably see a therapist, like as a family and start working through a lot of this stuff. That’s when it all started coming out like, like, there was so much rage. I feel like behind my parents when they were arguing with him about like, that is not something that we do like that is that is shameful to ask for help. And like it’s not something that you should be sharing with the outside world, because those are private matters and like not to be given out to some some external person. That’s, that’s the perspective that they gave me early on.
Jesse Lin 5:53
I have to totally agree with that. For sure. Your personal thoughts and your feelings. I also echo what you what you were experiencing as well. Because with my family and my parents, we never really discussed serious topics outside of my family and really the raw emotional topics we only discussed like between, you know, myself, my mom and my dad. And it’s funny that you you brought that up, because sometimes they can be very, very brutal. In fact, I remember a lot of the times when we would be having really just emotionally hurtful conversations for between me and my dad, he would say, like you You shouldn’t be upset, no one will ever be as honest with you than a family member will be. And that kind of like brutal level of honesty, I feel like it’s kind of all of the pent up emotion like coming out to those few people who are only deemed acceptable to talk to about those those particular emotions.
Angela Lin 6:54
Let’s dig into why that is. My hypothesis is that it has a lot Do with the Chinese but I think it is broader Asian mentality of like saving face of, you know, you want to present a certain carefully curated sense of self to the outside world that’s like respectable and reflects well on the family. Versus like, internally, you might be going through a lot of turmoil and like other bullshit and drama, but that’s, that’s private. And that’s not to be shared outside because otherwise you’ll be causing your family to suffer from the shame of like you showing those deep dark secrets to the outside world. That’s where I think largely stems from but what do you think?
Jesse Lin 7:47
I agree with that in in the sense that and what we already talked about in our initial episode is there’s a sense of collectivism versus individualism and the feeling that your emotions Doesn’t really belong just to you, it belongs to all those people who are in your collective and your family. And so I think sometimes our family members, especially those who immigrated to the US tend to downplay their individual emotions and kind of read to how everyone else is feeling about a particular subject and then just kind of subjugate themselves to that particular emotion, even if it’s not necessarily congruent to what they’re feeling.
Angela Lin 8:28
Is there like a specific time that’s coming to mind when you say that?
Jesse Lin 8:32
I mean, I can definitely think of like many, many family situations, just like regarding kind of end of life care with my grandparents like, it’s like one of those topics that you would imagine that would people would be very, very passionate about and very, very upset about too, because you know, you’re making decisions for somebody at the very, very end of their life, but a lot of the actual communication between my parents and my uncles was not necessarily emotional, like it was very, very dry. But as part of the family member, you can see like kind of behind the scenes negotiations and the frustrations and the sadness. It’s like everyone was going through something everyone was feeling something. But I think everyone was keeping it in for the sake of the family and for the sake of making the right decision on this on like the end of life care.
Angela Lin 9:26
You have to watch the farewell, at least a third of the movie is like kind of related to to that topic that you’re talking about. It is largely about the like joint decision of how to proceed with a very sick elderly family member. But there they talk a lot about kind of like the acceptable range of emotion to be showing during that time to that, like, simultaneously shows that you care and that you’re suffering, but not so much that you’re bringing down everyone else and like kind of making herself a burden in that situation by being so emotional. So I really think I already told you many times, I really think you should watch that movie.
Jesse Lin 10:10
Well, surprise. I did watch it this week, so I can comment on it. I thought it was a pretty good movie. And I definitely see a lot of what happened there playing out in my own family. And what’s really great to see is, you know, a lot of the time you don’t really see the emotional toll that people have, especially when they’re trying to like hold it in and save face, but I thought one of the most ridiculous and also poignant moments of the movie was when awkwafina his uncle was up on the stage to give a speech for his son’s wedding which I’m still not sure if it was like legit or a sham. But he just started like, bawling kind of a little bit uncomfortable. And it was so interesting because like the way that camera work was going, you could tell was trying to like, paint the picture whether or not He was being too emotional to be happy for the wedding. Yes. Or if he was like just the right amount of emotional. It’s I think it’s a great thing because it really does show that keeping in individual emotions, even even for the best of your family and for greater collective has has a significant toll on you personally.
Angela Lin 11:21
Yes, I agree. I also feel like beyond the concept of saving face there is, in general, there isn’t a set forum, like excepted forum for expressing emotion. So for example, like when my dad gets really angry about something or sad about something, his natural default is to just, he’ll just kind of turn really silent, and because he doesn’t know how to really express what he’s feeling. One and I also think too, we talked about this Little bit last time about like the expectations that the society has on like your role in it. I think he sees his role as like the head of the family, the man of the family who’s supposed to be protecting everyone. The strongest person in the family like should not be showing vulnerability and expressing that he’s going through some shit. So instead, he just chooses to shut it off. And of course, kids growing up you mirror what your your parents teach you is acceptable. So I feel like that was a big barrier, at least for me, I’m sure for you as well, like, overcoming what you thought was a normal way to process your emotions and finding your own path for for how to process it in a healthy way. Yeah.
Jesse Lin 12:51
I mean, I definitely. I definitely feel that because withdrawal I feel like it’s one of those big things that I picked up from my parents. And I feel like you’re saying that as well, where you encounter a really emotionally frustrating situation. And you have some kind of like, extreme reaction to it, but then you immediately just kind of withdraw the emotions back into yourself and you stew on it. And I think this was a, you know, this is kind of a universal reaction to really emotional situations. But I think where we don’t necessarily and I think Asian Americans don’t necessarily do as well, it’s the processing of the emotions after you withdraw. So after you’ve like, retained the emotions, because we’ve never talked about it with parents because we don’t really have any resources. Because mental health is not like a legitimized, necessarily thing in Asian American community. You You don’t really you don’t know how to process it right? Like how do you go about dissecting the things that you’re feeling and making them acceptable to you that that learning is never you never receive that as you’re growing up? And I think That’s a huge problem.
Angela Lin 14:04
Okay, so we’ve identified saving face as a big issue of not knowing how to properly Express and process emotion as another big issue. We talked about this a little bit in our private conversations. But the other big piece from our perspective, right is that being proactive about taking care of your mental health and going to therapy is something that is just more Western of a concept, right? Like it. I’m sure there are therapists in in Asia and specifically, right Jesse and I, our families were from Taiwan, I’m sure there are some therapists there, but like it’s just not the norm. Maybe because it did not stem from Eastern culture. So it’s just not trusted.
Jesse Lin 14:59
Yeah. 100 percent. Like, I definitely feel like there’s some stigma and taboo about talking about it. And I think part of it is because it is a Western thing. It’s not developed the science as some of the older, let’s say medical fields are which could be quite old. And I also feel like the experiences that our parents probably had with mental health and mental health providers is that they’re here for you’re like, absolutely crazy people, like people who are like off the rocker, like require really, really advanced kinds of care. So that’s probably kind of the situation that they have in their mind when they think about a psychologist or a mental health provider, because that’s probably what they saw when they were growing up, which is quite different from here where, you know, most people I feel like have gone to a therapist at some point in their lives or have had the need and they’re more open about that meet.
Angela Lin 15:58
Yeah, I do think it starts more common in the United States by I also feel like it’s evolved a lot over time like speaking just from a personal perspective looking at like my network, right? Like if I look back at the last five to 10 years I feel like that’s when therapy has started breaking down the the walls and taboos even within Western culture like I think generally baseline Western cultures are more in favor of going to therapy than Eastern cultures by far but I do also think it is like a relatively more recent thing that even here people are like, Oh, it’s normal. Yeah, I’m going to therapy this week. As if it’s not a big deal. But something that I found super interesting as, uh did you ever watch all the no reservations episodes back in those days?
Jesse Lin 16:54
No, unfortunately,
Angela Lin 16:55
I was. I was obsessed.
Jesse Lin 16:57
It’s on my list my quarantine list
Angela Lin 16:59
do it. I mean, it’s it’s so fun basically Anthony Bourdain for for those who don’t know, no reservations, as I’m sure everyone, or many people do, but it’s a show with the late Anthony Bourdain, who was one of the most famous chefs and TV personalities in the US at the time but he had a show where he basically every episode went to a different country or a different city around the world and started introducing the culture first through the the food because that’s where his background was, but he always got super deep because he was also a journalist by by trade, so he got super deep and like how food then reflected on the values that culture and all that but he went to Buenos Aires one episode and he talked heavily that episode about mental health because in Argentina, actually, like incredibly normal to go to a therapist Like, every person, no matter if you’re rich or poor, everyone goes to a therapist as if it’s like your dentist or your doctor. It’s just like a normal part of your holistic, like, you know, health checklist.
Angela Lin 18:15
And so yeah, 100% like, that’s a whole other issue if we would like sort of going down the rabbit hole, like health insurance and access to care and all that bullshit, but I thought that was so fascinating and like he was very envious of that kind of society where number one, access was available to everyone. But number two, it was so normalized that there’s just zero taboo around it. I think it’s gonna take a long time for both us other Western cultures and on the full extreme, the Eastern cultures to get to that point where it’s like, no, you’re not even blinking. You know, no one bats an eye at someone when they say they’re going to therapy. If this week’s episode was interesting to you, then please tune in to next week. When we talk about how we decided to overcome the taboo that our Asian upbringings have had around the topic of mental health, and how we decided to proactively take care of our mental health through our personal experiences, and the benefits that we’ve both seen from doing that.
Angela Lin 20:01
We are now in our fortune cookie closing section because it’s always great to end on a sweet treat fortune cookie. What are we closing with today, Jesse?
Jesse Lin 20:14
Well, we’re gonna be talking about what we’re listening to this week. But before we tell you that let us know what you are thinking about our personal topic today.
Angela Lin 20:24
Please subscribe to us on Spotify, that’ll make sure that you automatically get pushed our latest episodes. And if you can, like and follow us on Instagram, we’re going to start posting some fun quotes and other content on there. So we’d love if you could follow us but it’s at @linfamilyreunion.
Jesse Lin 20:49
Awesome. So tell me what have you been listening to?
Angela Lin 20:53
My favorite murder which is not a small podcast, so probably a lot of you listening to this have heard of it. But I have always been super fascinated by like true crime and like serial killers and all that stuff and these women are just so…
Jesse Lin 21:09
not a serial killer.
Angela Lin 21:10
Um, you’re not?
Angela Lin 21:14
But no, these ladies are super fucking funny and you never would think that comedy and murder should go together like when I first heard when someone first told me to listen to that podcast I was a little offended with who told me the title of it my favorite murder I was like Who the fuck? Name this and then I started listening to it and it’s just so relatable because they also start on just like talking about their their normal lives so that you can get to know them as people and then every episode they basically take turns telling one murder in detail. And it is you know, murder and death is sad and like tragic that they’re not making fun of that by any means but they are Boats so funny that the way they talk about the murders is hilarious. So they’ll be like, and then this fucker went and had the gall to like do this. So then you’re just laughing along even though it’s like a really sad situation. So it fulfills two things that people love. It’s like this morbid curiosity with murder and like, you know, tragic things that happen and then also like a really humorous take on it. So I love that podcast and I’ve been catching up on their latest episodes because I’ve been letting them stack up. How about you?
Jesse Lin 22:32
That sounds great. Well, I’ve been listening to my neighbor’s screaming feature and my other neighbor vacuuming very loudly all week long, which has been like number one on my list. But no, in all seriousness, last Friday, I believe doula dropped her new album and obviously, all the gays are here for it. I’m here for it. I’ve been listening to it like non stop on repeat like all week long. It’s just really fun like it’s fun music to go out to which makes me kind of sacks I can’t go out but it’s fun to like just listen to at home and like, listen to it for workouts, listen to it and just dance by yourself. Do you think there will be featured in the next virtual rave? Do I think maybe probably Yeah. It’s super gay all the gays. I also wanted to plug Sam Sparrow came out with a new album, maybe like one month ago and I think it’s amazing. His voice is like so amazing, like buttery, smooth, like, like a chocolate bar. But a voice, like so delicious. So I love it. I like turn it on in the shower. Before I get in the shower. I’m like in the shower, just like singing like extremely off key. Yeah, these two albums are keeping me alive right now.
Angela Lin 23:50
That’s so fun. All right. Well, I think that’s all we have for you guys this week. We are planning to release episodes weekly. So remember, just about subscribe so that you get those new episodes automatically in your Spotify or wherever you are listening to us. So until next time
All 24:10
Zai jian, bitches!