Note: Transcript fully created by automated AI
[00:00:00] Jesse: Hi everyone. I’m Jesse Lin.
[00:00:02] Angela: And I’m Angela Lin. And welcome back to another episode of, but where are you really from today instead of me in the hot seat, we’ve put Jesse in the hot seat. This time we are talking about open relationships. murmur. Yes. Um, this is kind of like a continuation of a series of topics that we’ve been covering on the show.
[00:00:26] Angela: We’ve kind of like delved into many D. Aspects of dating relationships, intimacy, and how that’s played into our own lives, how we kinda operate trauma. We have challenges we still deal with in that respect. So this was like another facet that we wanted to talk about because it does impact one of us at least, which is why Jesse’s in hot seat.
[00:00:51] Angela: oh, um, so I think this topic is super interesting for a lot of people because. A lot of people don’t really know much about what an open relationship really means. Like why people would be in an open relationship, how it actually operates. And by people, I mean, me, I also don’t know how any of that shit works, which is why I’ll be asking the questions today.
[00:01:15] Angela: Um, and I think just to start it off, I would like to ask you how you define an open relationship and what made you wanna be in an open relat.
[00:01:28] Jesse: Um, so an open relat, I feel like a lot of people think an open relationship is exactly what it sounds like, which is just like you have a primary partner, but your relation to that person has no rules.
[00:01:43] Jesse: Meaning like you can go outside of that partner for sex, for emotional needs, for comfort, whatever, and your partner has the same kind of freedom. And that can be what it is for some people, but actually. I looked into this a lot when I first embarked on this open relationship journey, because I know naturally I’m a very jealous person for various reasons, like past issues and whatever.
[00:02:09] Jesse: And so I was like open relationship. Like this is not for me. Like I will die of like emotional pain so I started, first of all, I started reading this really old book called the velvet. um, it’s written by this psychotherapist, I think, or hypnotherapist. He might do both of things based off of his work with queer men or gay men over, uh, a number of years.
[00:02:35] Jesse: And it. Like I wanted to see the two sides, basically this, this book, the kind of conclusion is that gay men have this kind of extended adolescence where you have these open and like fun relationship structures to accommodate, um, or to offset those years where you were not able to have that. And also like to offset.
[00:02:59] Jesse: Areas of emotional development that you didn’t really get. So I was kind of trying to see like, okay, on, on one hand you have this, where at the end, he kind of proposes that the most stable relationship is like one where you have one in one partner and you, you satisfy each other’s needs and urges and whatever.
[00:03:15] Jesse: And then on the other hand, I read this book called the ethical slut, which is basically talking about how open relationships work and like what kinds of. methods and ways you can use to navigate that. And as I looked into it, I was like, both of these things make sense, but I actually felt like the ethical slut one made a lot more sense to me because in the open relationship that I have with my partner and my, myself, we have like a document, like a Google document.
[00:03:45] Jesse: And it’s basically like, what do I want out of this open relationship? So like, Here are like our primary drivers of why we want the open relationship here are like the hard line. Like these are the things that we need to respect about each other and like things I like things I don’t like, um, about our relationship.
[00:04:03] Jesse: And so actually being in an open relationship. I, this is like the most intentional relationship I’ve ever been in where I laid down with my partner. Like, Hey, here are the things that really hurt my feelings. These are the things that I really love about our relationship. And we have like a, a quorum and understanding of each other’s needs and wants.
[00:04:26] Jesse: Um, not only as it relates to how we explore. Relationships outside our private relationship, but also how we explore our own relationship. And so I found that to be really, really just a completely different experience, right. Because I think like with my prior relationships, there was just a lot of assumptions happening in the background and it kind of.
[00:04:49] Jesse: I, I do get it a little bit frustrated because there are some things where you’re like, well, that’s not assumption. That’s just like a given. But then when I think about it, I’m like, well, is it like, maybe it makes sense for me, but maybe it doesn’t make sense for the other person. And so like having that discussion opens up a really kind of a better understanding between you and your partner of like where you are, where your perspectives are for a specific type of need.
[00:05:15] Jesse: Um, So, yeah, that’s kind of how I came to this. And, um, it’s been interesting so far. Did I answer the question? Uh,
[00:05:26] Angela: yeah, most of it, but I’ll circle back. Hold on. First of all, like I’m already like, should I consider? No, no, but I like, based on what you’re talking about, I’m already like, A lot, like you said, I think most people who don’t know anything about it do think it’s literally what it sounds like with the word is like free for all, but based on the way that you just described it as like, wow, you, you really are like, it almost sounds like a more mature way to approach a relationship in that you are forced to be very explicit with your needs, your boundaries and like what that means with each other and how.
[00:06:06] Angela: Like interact with each other. And to your point, most of the time in like regular relationships, we don’t define those things like as explicitly. So I think that is like, miscommunication is like in any relationship, often the cause of problems in relationships, because there are assumptions made and then feelings hurt because blah, blah.
[00:06:32] Angela: so I already, like, first of all, yeah, just wanted to put out there, like I’m already very intrigued and very, like, have more respect towards this whole like ideology just by the way that you’ve described how you’ve like laid it out for yourself. Um, so yes, you inserted first part of like how you , how you define it, I guess.
[00:06:55] Angela: Uh, want to. If, if you’re comfortable sharing, like which aspects are you like, have you guys defined is the like open part and which aspects aren’t. And also like, I guess my question, my other question is kind of like, is this your first open relationship? And if so, if not either way, like, why were you first open to the idea of this?
[00:07:22] Angela: I know you said. Looked into it more with those two books, but like, why were you first? actually, I might want to
[00:07:29] Jesse: explore this. Okay. So the first one, like what parts of the relationship are actually open? I mean, it’s mostly just that we are able to hang out with other people and if we want to choose to have sex with them, um, but.
[00:07:45] Jesse: I think the way that the way that our relationship agreement is constructed. And I don’t think you have to be in a relationship agreement to construct one of these, it’s basically like a roommate agreement that you do in college where you’re just like, here am I like must have kind of situation, but it can be like a little bit more than that because the documents kind of like.
[00:08:03] Jesse: Open, right? Like you, you can’t really write out every single little, little thing, and that’s not the spirit of it. Right. So if, if you’re, if you’re doing this kind of exercise and your partner is trying to find ways to violate what makes you feel comfortable? It’s just not gonna work. Like you have to have some like mutual respect because you cannot write out like every single thing that you don’t or do feel comfortable about.
[00:08:28] Jesse: So basically like the way. Um, our document is structured is like, this is our open relationship. What do we want out of it? So for me, it’s that, like, I finally feel like I’m at full power, right? And I wanna like use that power to have sex with other people feel attractive, like really lead into that. And as part of that first, first of all, I want to acknowledge and high.
[00:08:53] Jesse: What I really like about our primary relationship, like here are the things that I really love about us, that I think that I do really well for you. You do really well for me here are the things like specifically I want to do in the open relationship, like the top kind of things, and then like kind of a list of behaviors or activities that will make me feel secure when, when I’m in a.
[00:09:13] Jesse: Like in a engagement with someone let’s say, so I would write something. That’s like, okay, like if you’re gonna go, if you’re gonna ha if you’re gonna hang out with someone, you’re gonna hook up with them, shoot me a text before, let me know, shoot me a text when you’re done. Let me know. Like, those are just like, those are the key things I kind of already know about myself.
[00:09:29] Jesse: That would make me feel a lot more comfortable about what’s going on. And it’s just all detailed in there. Um, your second question. Which is, is it my first open relationship? And how did I come to the conclusion of doing this? Got it. How did you come to
[00:09:46] Angela: the conclusion that you wanted, how I wanted it or that you were even open to it, especially cuz you said that thing about like, you know, yourself, that you’re a jealous person.
[00:09:55] Angela: So like how did you make that leap of like I’m naturally jealous, but I’m also. Interested and open to exploring an open relationship.
[00:10:07] Jesse: Yes. So I’ve been in three total serious relationships, and I would say all three of them have been open in some respects, meaning that like, it was not fully monogamous when it comes to sex.
[00:10:21] Jesse: And it’s because the first one, it was like long distance. So it was kind of. I’m not gonna be a nun for like a year or like months. Um, the second one was kind of like open in the sense that people will be brought into the primary relationship, but we, you know, not NEC not necessarily we’re going, um, off one, one on one with other people.
[00:10:42] Jesse: And then this one is kind of like more open. Like we have the freedom to do that, or we can bring another person who’s relationship. It’s kind of, um, Whatever, whatever we both feel will be fun and interesting for the other person. And for the relationship overall, how did I come to this conclusion? I mean, after my last breakup, which was not really good, I really tried to think about like, basically think more intentionally about my relationships, because after that one ended, I was like, oh my God.
[00:11:13] Jesse: I was like sleepwalking for the past couple of years. Like I just felt like I was. There, because this was what I thought it should be versus like, is this really what I wanted? And the more I thought about it, I was like, well, could I really be satisfied with one person sexually for the rest of my life? I mean, like the reality is like, I think my current partner is really sexy, like super sexy, but do I look at other people?
[00:11:41] Jesse: I’m like, yeah, if there’s someone really cute, I’m like, damn, that person’s really cute. Yeah, of course. Um, so it’s like, it’s I, you can’t shut that down. So like there’s always this natural inclination that you’re interested in the person. And so for me, I was just like, well, like. I just don’t think it is realistic to deny yourself of this for the rest of your life.
[00:12:03] Jesse: Let’s say, let’s imagine you got married at like 25 or something like that. Or 20 even that’s like, you’re getting married at the first 20% of your life and the remaining 80% of your life, you are sealed with this person. And for some people that’s fine. That’s totally cool. But for me, I was like, I feel like I would get bored.
[00:12:21] Jesse: It would cause strains on the primary relationship. And I don’t, um, it just like, it logically didn’t make sense to me. Like I, like, I like eating, I don’t know, bubble tea, but I don’t like eating bubble tea every day for the rest of my life. Like I would be so fucking bored and like sick of it. So I think actually that was kind of where it started, where I was like, okay, I don’t know if I could just B be enjoying one person for the rest of my life.
[00:12:48] Jesse: And then I tried to, I, I started doing the reading to try to understand like, okay, what are the resources available to me so that I can better understand what are the different kinds of relationship structures? Um, In play and how people, uh, operate themselves in them. And the interesting thing about both of the books is that they highlight various different types of relationship structures, including the ethical SL, which talks, uh, actually a great deal about monogamy because monogamy is a hundred percent valid, um, relationship structure.
[00:13:19] Jesse: Like they’re not in the book, they don’t shit on monogamy at all. They’re like, this is a very difficult relationship structure off for obvious reasons, but. It’s a valid one. Um, so that’s kind of where I started, went to the books, reading to try to figure out if I could be comfortable in it, because I wasn’t sure at that point.
[00:13:36] Jesse: And then we have the discussion around this, um, this document and like wrote it all down and then we just tried it. Um, and I would say like the second reason is that I, um, because I know that I’m naturally jealous person. I was like, I don’t like this about myself. And I feel like if I put myself in an environment where I can confront it, And realize that that jealousy is me being afraid of something that may or may not happen.
[00:14:05] Jesse: And being able to reinforce that the negative thing won’t happen, which is that the relationship will not work out, will reduce the kind of jealousy that I have. And so I was like, for me, this is also a really great way to work on this like thing about myself that I don’t necessarily really like, because I have plenty of friends who are.
[00:14:24] Jesse: In open relationships and they’re like, yeah, I don’t, I’m not jealous at all. And I’m like, how? Like, I wanna be that person. Like, I want to be that person where, when my partners are like, you know, going to sleep with someone really hot, I’m like, you go girl, like go get it. Because there is some aspect of that where I’m like, that’s kind of hot, it’s hot that you’re interested in someone else.
[00:14:42] Jesse: And it’s hot that you can like get them. Yeah, those are the things okay. Let’s
[00:14:47] Angela: delve into the jealousy piece more because this is something that obviously like me thinking about this, even as a remote possibility is like the, my biggest hindrance as well. Um, I guess. I, you mentioned you have little things like text me before, text me after just like the knowledge of the thing having happened helps you with the jealousy.
[00:15:11] Angela: I think for me, my biggest qualm is like the sex part is one thing, but I’m more scared that sex can lead to feelings. And for me, the emotional side would be much more. Destructive to like my wellbeing and our relationship than, uh, just like a purely physical one. So how do you, how do you guys navigate that?
[00:15:40] Angela: The emotional aspect, I guess like potential emotional aspect. And then also, how do you personally navigate that as like controlling your jealousy to. Spiral or like whatever, as it pertains to potential feeling development. Oh
[00:15:56] Jesse: yeah. Okay. So let me just say, first of all, I still feel jealous a lot of the times and like the jealousy sometimes is crippling, but I already knew that going into it.
[00:16:05] Jesse: That that’s what would happen. Um, from my partner’s perspective, it’s quite easy for him. He’s like, I’m not jealous. He’s like, I’m not really, he’s like a little bit jealous of things. I’m not really jealous, like, and he also says that he has a good, um, He has a good head for separating like sex and intimacy, like feelings.
[00:16:25] Jesse: So I’m like, okay, like I trust you on that. Like, because, and I can’t cut your head open and see if you’re telling me the truth. I’m just gonna trust you on that. For me, it’s the same kind of thing. So actually there are a few things that I put into our agreement, specific things that I was like, this will make me feel a little bit better because these kinds of activities veer into that like intimacy zone, right.
[00:16:46] Jesse: I put things that’s like, I would really prefer if you didn’t have pillow talk with anybody. Right. Cause that’s like a really intimate thing that I would prefer doing with you. Um, I would prefer that you don’t do sleepovers with anyone because that’s also, like for me, that’s kind of a little bit more intimate.
[00:17:01] Jesse: Like it could lead to pillow talk and like other stuff that is kind of veering into the feelings territory. But I, that’s kind of like, for me, like, those are the things that are like the trigger things that I know will be like, Ooh, are we mad about that? Um, and then like the rest of it is I thought about it.
[00:17:20] Jesse: I’m like, would I really be mad about these kinds of things? Because a, like this one time he, he went to, he went to hook up with somebody and it was just like life living on. They mostly just like watched TV together. And I was like, oh, is this intimacy. But then I was like, this is kinda what you would do with like any other friend, but you’re just kind of like at the end of it or during it, you maybe like fooling around a little bit.
[00:17:44] Jesse: So when I was thinking about it that way, I was like, it’s less threatening to me because the behavior is not really any different than it would be with anybody else that he’s just plat. Sexually in a relationship with, um, and I think that like sex part of it really like mm, gives you like the jelly bellies for sure.
[00:18:06] Jesse: Um, so I have to like really think about is this is whatever he’s doing with this person, really that abnormal, where it’s like a intimate thing that is not shared with anybody else. It’s just with that person. And if it’s not, then. I can still feel jealous. Like my, my feelings are valid, but is there the risk there to the relationship?
[00:18:29] Jesse: Not really, like if there’s no more risk than, than would be, he would fall for any other friend that he knows. Right. Because it’s just, you know, it’s not any special activity. So that’s kind of just how I generally think about it. And also I don’t hide my feelings. Like if I’m jealous about something, I will try to respectfully communicate like, Hey, um, You told me this thing, I didn’t feel really great about it.
[00:18:55] Jesse: And this is why, and we’ll have tried to have as adult conversation as we can about it. So I do think that, um, those things together help navigate, um, the jealousy a little bit better.
[00:19:12] Angela: Hey listeners, wondering how you can support us. The biggest way is by increasing our visibility by following us on Instagram at where are you from pod on TikTok at, but where are you really from subscribing to our YouTube channel under, but where are you really from podcast rating and reviewing us on apple podcasts and telling your friends the more people we can get to listen to the show, the more we can continue spotlighting different perspectives and stories.
[00:19:34] Angela: And if you feel so inclined, we’re also accepting donations@buymeacoffee.com slash where are you from? Thanks. Y’all okay. Two follow up questions, obviously. I’m so inquisitive on this. Um, one is, do you have anything around multiple. Times with the same person, because that’s something I would be like, kind of jealous about and be afraid that that could develop into something is like, if you’re constantly hitting up like the same person, it just like, even if you don’t mean to could turn into something else.
[00:20:12] Angela: So I’ll
[00:20:12] Jesse: let you, that’s a great question. You’re excellent questions. so this is also kind of a, a sticking point for me because I. Was in a long term relationship for a really long time. So I don’t have a lot of people that I used to hook up with. And, um, my partner does, so he knows a lot of people who are kind of like repeats, as you say, And, um, originally when we were talking about it, I think we did discuss, like, how do we feel about repeats and like what the situation is, but I keep thinking about it.
[00:20:44] Jesse: Like I just frame it the way that I think about the whole friends thing. Like, I also know some of his friends that he’s been friends with a while, so I’m like, okay, like is what he is, what he’s doing with this person. Any different from what he’s doing with, um, any of his other long term friends. And also like, if it’s really, if it’s literally just a hookup, like, you know, he’s going there to literally just get banged by somebody and then leave.
[00:21:13] Jesse: I don’t feel threatened at all because there’s. You might be a little stigmatized, but like there’s no chance of like intimacy developing, at least for me. Like, I don’t think that just sleeping with the same person over and over again will develop intimacy. Like it’s just sex. And the other thing is that once I started exercising my part of the open relationship, like sleeping with other people and I started sleeping with the same people.
[00:21:40] Jesse: I was like, yeah, this is not threatening. Like cuz I came into. This relationship with this other person, with the intention of, you know, maybe making friends with them, having sex with them and that’s it. And because those were my intentions, like I have that rule with them. And so having that personal experience made me more comfortable because I was like, okay, cool.
[00:22:02] Jesse: Like, I understand that it’s not happening for me where I’m like falling for someone, you know, that I’m sleeping with multiple times. So it’s also possible that that’s not happening for my partner. Okay.
[00:22:15] Angela: That is exactly leading into my second question, which is more on you and you kind of curbing your own potential emotional development.
[00:22:25] Angela: So, because you’ve set these like, Intentions for yourself with any interaction you’ve found that you are able to keep yourself from like randomly developing feelings, because I hear what you’re saying about like, theoretically, just banging someone and leaving. Doesn’t lead to feelings necessarily, but we’ve also discussed in the past that like, we’ve both confused, like sexual encounters and like lust for somebody as like a way of getting validation about your worth and like confusing it for potential love or emotion.
[00:23:05] Angela: Right. So like you’ve actually successfully drawn that line. And if you have like, How do you see that you’ve been able to do that knowing our history that we’ve discussed of like making those confusions in the past?
[00:23:18] Jesse: Yeah. So, I mean, that’s always gonna be a really tricky thing because feelings are feelings.
[00:23:23] Jesse: You can’t control them. Um, I will say that. I think we’ve discussed this before in the past. I believe that you have the possibility of many, many, if you wanna call it soulmates, but many, many compatible people in the world to be your partner. And so when it comes down to it, let’s say for example, you have a hundred compatible people and they’re all equally compatible.
[00:23:44] Jesse: What’s your decision to stay with any one person. It’s just that it’s a decision. You’re like, oh, I’ve committed to being with you. I like being with you and I’ll stay with you. that’s it. That’s the only thing holding your relationship together. It’s not like magic. It’s not a, unless you’re married, you don’t have a binding contract.
[00:24:00] Jesse: Like all that’s keeping you together is your decision to stay together. Um, and so with that in mind. Yeah, sure. Like I think there are certain situations where, when I run into someone really interesting or really cute, I still developed kinda like crushes. So like recently when we were in LA. There was this really cute guy.
[00:24:21] Jesse: We went out, we hooked up, I think I have like a mild crush on him, but that doesn’t mean that I’m gonna change anything about my primary relationship. This doesn’t change my feelings towards my partner. There’s additive feelings for this other person, but that doesn’t somehow diminish how I feel towards my primary partner.
[00:24:39] Jesse: And it also doesn’t change my decision to be committed to him if that makes sense. So I think there’s a huge. People are scared because there’s this risk that you’ll lose the person that you love, because there’s a hundred other people that could just be perfect for, for them. But the thing is that comes down to a decision, right?
[00:25:00] Jesse: So like you can’t control one, another person decides or doesn’t decide. So at the end of the day, for me, I’m like, I might as well enjoy all of these different avenues for my feelings to go because I can’t control at the end of the day. If John wants to be with someone else that’s equally compatible. I can’t be like, no, I he’s his own person.
[00:25:22] Jesse: And same here. Like he can’t do that to me. So I feel comfortable in it because I’ve made this commitment to him. And I don’t think that I plan on changing it. Um, so that’s kind of how I think about it when these other like feelings or crushes or interests in other arise.
[00:25:42] Angela: Yeah, I guess that makes a lot of sense for me.
[00:25:45] Angela: Just everything you said makes 1000000% chance, uh, I mean, fuck, what am I saying? 1000000% sense. Makes sense. Sense. Makes sense. But for me, It’s basically you’re right in that, like, you literally can’t control anyone but yourself. Right? Like even if you’ve made a, what you called, one of the, like, buying, doing culture, like marriage or whatever, right?
[00:26:10] Angela: Like that’s why divorce exist. You know, like people, there are still ways out because you literally cannot enslave a person into like, doing everything that you want. Mm-hmm I guess the. Fear that I have. And I I’m guessing many people have is like, you can’t control. If you are bound partner, like your married partner or whatever, develops feelings for somebody else outside of your relationship.
[00:26:36] Angela: But if you’ve kept the relationship closed, theoretically, you’re minimizing the number of chances that they have to have developed those feelings because the people that they meet to. Potential with are fewer than if you said it’s open and then they’re, you know, like potentially every week they might be needing somebody for.
[00:27:02] Angela: You know, the agreed upon yeah. Open activities. Yeah. And you’re just like increasing the number of encounters is what I like. That’s my fear, I guess.
[00:27:11] Jesse: I understand. Yeah. I mean, it is, it’s a risk. It is a, on, it is a risk of being in an open relationship, but kind of ask yourself that question. Like, at least for me, I’m like, okay.
[00:27:23] Jesse: So if I open the relationship. and if my partner left anyways, how strong was my relationship to begin with? Like, so. You’re closing it. You’re, you’re eliminating the opportunities that the person will stray outside of the relationship, but that doesn’t, you’re missing like that. There might be a primary need that your partner has that’s unexpressed and you’ll never know because they’ll never, it’s your relationship’s not open.
[00:27:55] Jesse: They’ll never explore it. Of course. Also, I’m gonna retract that. You might know if you’re, if you have a really tight relationship and everyone is being, you know, very forthcoming with like what they want and like what their needs are. Then there is no need to go outside the relationship. Sometimes people are looking for something that the primary partner cannot provide, or they’re just looking for something interesting, which is different.
[00:28:19] Jesse: Um, and I guess for me, it makes more sense to give my partner that freedom to do that because I kind of want the same. Um, and so it wouldn’t be fair for me to say like, oh, only I can do that versus like, you cannot do that. Then it’s like kind of lopsided, but it, it reflects the need that I also have. So I have.
[00:28:40] Jesse: Be fair and give the same freedom to the other partner.
[00:28:43] Angela: Right. Okay. That makes sense. Um, follow up question is now kind of on a different angle is with the people that you or your partner decide to have. Encounters with, how do you, you basically just like, are upfront that you’re in a, you’re already in an existing committed relationship and like, this is, these are ground rules or like how, or do you just like, whatever, like unspoken that like I’m gonna, I’m coming here for a hookup as we’ve discussed mm-hmm and then I choose to leave before any such pillow talk or whatever could happen so that I obey my own rules.
[00:29:21] Angela: Or do you actually like explicitly. Lay out some things with this person.
[00:29:27] Jesse: Um, I don’t usually, like, I don’t see the need to do that. Like I don’t see why it’s that person’s business, particularly if I didn’t say like, if it’s not a date, you know, like it, it’s not like it’s not information that I necessarily see as pertinent to having sex with somebody because.
[00:29:48] Jesse: I’m not, I don’t feel like I’m misleading them in any way. Like I’m not being like, we’re, you know, this is the date, or I have romantic interest in you. Like, I’m always very clear with people like, like, come on over, let’s hook up, hang out. That’s it. Um, if people ask that’s for sure, like, I will tell them like, Hey, I have, you know, I have a boyfriend we’ve been to, so blah, blah, blah, blah, open relationship, relationship, yada, yada.
[00:30:10] Jesse: And if they wanna know more about like, what that looks like, yeah. I’ll take the time to explain it to them, but I don’t think it’s necessary to. Tell a person that you’re in an open relationship, um, unless you somehow like your lead in, into that encounter is somehow misleading the person into thinking that you might be available in some manner that is not okay within the rules of your
[00:30:34] Angela: relationship.
[00:30:36] Angela: okay. So you are only upfront about like sex only, essentially hookup only, but then there’s no, unless there’s like additional prodding from their end, there was no like additional context given
[00:30:49] Jesse: usually. Yeah, I don’t think so. I mean, like what’s it to, what’s it to random person that I’m sleeping with that I’m in
[00:30:56] Angela: an open relationship.
[00:30:57] Angela: Well, yeah, I guess this is a like question I have of like, whether there might be a difference between. Queer relationships and like heterosexual, heteronormative, whatever the like PCE phrase is, that’s straight the straights. Exactly. Because I feel like. I mean, obviously Grindr exists because it originally started right.
[00:31:23] Angela: For, to enable hookups and it has developed people use it for many different reasons now, but like, no girl, it’s still for . Okay. Yeah. So we don’t. But that’s the thing like for straight people, we don’t have just a like, just for sex app, like you can argue that Tinder is like unspoken more the like hookup app than other dating apps, but there is no, like, literally we all agree if you own this app and you’re on it, you’re there just for sex kind of thing.
[00:31:52] Angela: So when I think about like, what would this look like for my relationship? I’m just like, I have all these like concerns and like, because people do hook up on like a first encounter or whatever, when you are in a like dating environment. And that doesn’t mean they’re excluding the potential for like, feelings to develop.
[00:32:16] Angela: So I guess for me, I’m just. I, I wouldn’t feel secure with like, because there is no like UN like known thing of like, this is just sex. We all know this is just for sex kind of thing.
[00:32:28] Jesse: Okay. Okay. Super fair. Um, so I will say in my grinder profile, I do have a written that I have an open relationship. So like, You know, literacy is pretty low here, but if anyone opened it up and actually like looked at it, they would, they would know.
[00:32:43] Jesse: So I’m not, again, I’m like not hiding anything at all. Like I’m super upfront if people want to know, but I also don’t feel like it’s relevant in, I do not believe that the straights do not have a sex app. There are maybe none of us
[00:33:00] Angela: talk about it.
[00:33:02] Jesse: I mean, mean might be like a, you know, small thing, but, um, I also feel like that could be, I don’t know, it could be a way, like when you’re on an app to just put it in a profile, be like open relationship, but I kind of understand what you’re saying is that like, because you’re on like Bumble or hinge, whatever mm-hmm, there’s this maybe that you might.
[00:33:23] Jesse: In a dating kind of situation. Mm-hmm um, and that’s where I would say it’s on whoever whoever’s in the open relationship to kind of make it clear in the profile. Like, Hey, I’m in a committed relationship, but I’m looking for fun with someone else. So you’re not misleading anyone mm-hmm yeah.
[00:33:39] Angela: Okay. I have a question about, I think you’ve mentioned like either in the past or your current relationship, there have been times where you both, as a couple, decide to invite a person into.
[00:33:52] Angela: Both of your dynamics and like, how is that usually decided? No. Do you know what I’m asking? And you
[00:34:01] Jesse: threesome . Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. I was like, like the same person, but like different, different times. You could. Interesting question. Interesting. No, yeah. What do you mean? Like,
[00:34:17] Angela: well, Yeah. Is it like, because I think you’ve mentioned in the past, like you’re out with each other and then you like meet a bunch of people and then like, someone is interesting to both of you or whatever.
[00:34:30] Angela: And then you decide to like all go home that night or whatever Uhhuh. Yeah. Like, has it been just like fair game, like BOS of you have asked the other person, like, Hey, would you be open to this? Yes. Together. Okay. Yeah. You’ve both initiated that on. encounters or whatever.
[00:34:49] Jesse: Yeah. So what, so, I mean, I think if your question is like, if we’ve ever been out together and then one of us just goes to some random person, like, do you wanna have three with us without consulting the other person?
[00:34:58] Jesse: That’s not how it no, no.
[00:35:00] Angela: okay. No, no, no. I mean like when you’re both out and you’re both. Like, or one of you is like, oh, this I like this person. And it could be interesting for us to have like all three of us have an activity tonight. Has it been both of you at different points to be like, Hey Jesse, or Hey partner, like, I think this could be fun.
[00:35:22] Angela: Like what do you think? Or is it mostly like, one of you is like
[00:35:25] Jesse: more, oh, um, No, I think we’re generally, I think we’re generally in sync because what we want out of the open relationship is basically kind of the same, which is like sex with different people outside of the, the two of us. But also like we have pretty good overlap.
[00:35:44] Jesse: Like there are some people that my partner’s interested in that I’m like not, and also vice versa, but I think that we have a good overlap of like, if he picks someone up, he’s like, yeah. Are you, are you interested in this person? I’m like, yeah, I think they’re pretty cute. Let’s do it. And I feel like both of us have, um, action on that before.
[00:36:02] Jesse: And generally we don’t bring strangers. It’s kind of strangers as a bad term, but like we don’t bring someone that’s like completely that we just met. usually like it’s usually someone that we at least have like somewhat, um, we know them a little bit, like either interesting met them at some place before, or at least we’ve seen them around.
[00:36:22] Jesse: Um, so that both of us kind of have like an equal knowledge of this person, if that makes sense.
[00:36:31] Angela: Yeah. Okay. And the like, because I know when it’s separate. Encounters, you know, when someone is like, I’ve meet, I’m meeting this person, I’m done meeting this person, but you’re not seeing it obviously. So when you are in a shared experience of seeing the, you know, your partner with a different person does not evoke jealousy in you at
[00:36:57] Jesse: all, um, that’s a good question.
[00:37:00] Jesse: I’m trying to think. I will say the last few times we’ve done. We were pretty high. So I, but I, I will say like, I’m like, I’m never so blitz that I can’t feel my emotions. So when I’m not feeling good, even when I’m really high, I’m like, Ooh, I don’t like this. And I want to say that I didn’t, I don’t really feel that.
[00:37:22] Jesse: In fact, the last time we did it, I was like, this is fucking hot. Like or please. Um, I, and, uh, when you’re, when you’re separate, let’s. it kind of depends on what makes you feel comfortable. So for me, I was like, I feel the most comfortable if I can feel included. Like when you’re doing that, when you’re off with someone else by yourself, it’s kind of, you’re not, you don’t, you’re not intentionally excluding the person, but the person is, your partner is not there.
[00:37:50] Jesse: So I was like, if you feel comfortable when the person agrees, like take a photo, take a video, like at least so I can see what’s happening. And that makes me feel like I didn’t miss it. Like I was still there. And so we kind of do that as a way to. Um, make it so like, even though we’re off doing our individual activities, like the other person can still kind of enjoy it in some way, shape or form.
[00:38:13] Jesse: Of course. Like some other people are like, I don’t wanna know about that at all. Like, some people are like, I don’t wanna hear about what you’re doing. Like, I don’t really care. Like don’t tell me. And that’s perfectly valid. It just really depends on what each person feels comfortable doing. Yeah. Makes
[00:38:28] Angela: sense.
[00:38:29] Angela: Yeah, I, again, I’m gonna go back to like, where I’m like, uh, I can’t make that jump for myself, which is like, because I don’t know if it’s as frequent of a thing in straight couples as in gay couples. I, I don’t know. I don’t know any stats around it, but it just like, I don’t, none of my friends have like, or very few of my friends have expressed.
[00:38:56] Angela: Being in one, or like being interested in exploring one, et cetera. And for me, I’m also thinking about like in the future near future, right. We wanna start like a family, like bring kids into the mix and I just like cannot picture explaining. To to family or like, I don’t know what, like a parent or like a, someone a peer sees us on an app or whatever.
[00:39:26] Angela: And then like we have kids and they have to, like, they ask us and, or like our kid finds out or whatever, and like how to explain that. And I just, like, I would not know. To, to handle that conversation.
[00:39:39] Jesse: So what I will say about the relationships, I feel like it’s very much environment self-enforcing because there are so many monogamous relationships in, but not all straits are monogamous, like Mormon.
[00:39:52] Jesse: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Poly. But it just like, because of the majority of the people are in this relationship structure, a you may not even. It may not even be in your head that there’s another kind of relationship structure for you and B it doesn’t leave room to make you feel comfortable that you can explore, right.
[00:40:10] Jesse: If all of your friends are in like a committed, married relationship, you’re like, well, maybe this is just what’s for me. Like, I don’t need to, like, why do I, it doesn’t feel comfortable versus like in gay world, I’m like, Jesus, is there anybody in a monogamous relationship? like, everybody’s in open relationship.
[00:40:26] Jesse: So like, I do feel like there is a lot of that. Kind of like your environment and the kind of relationships that you’re exposed to can give you the freedom and comfort to say like, Hey, maybe I do feel comfortable, like at least exploring this versus not. Um, when it comes to like furthering your family, there’s actually a really interesting section in, um, the ethical sled that specifically talks about this because it is a very.
[00:40:57] Jesse: Difficult thing for you to explain, especially let’s say to your parents or to like other parents, why there may be multiple parent figures. Um, if you’re interested in, in it, I would read that. I think that does a much better job in explaining like the ins and outs of it. Um, but at the end of the day, like it’s really nobody else’s business, but your own, like you can tell people about it.
[00:41:24] Jesse: but it’s not their bus. Like you, it, and, and if you’re not sleeping with the person, you don’t have a relationship with the person. Like it’s none of their business. Like,
[00:41:32] Angela: yeah. I wouldn’t anticipate proactively volunteering the information I’m thinking about, like how would we even be exploring other partners?
[00:41:43] Angela: And it would largely, I assume, be through. And then it’s like, I see that’s pretty public. Yeah. For anyone to like see your face and know, and if they run into you on the street or you happen to run in like similar social circles, it would come up. So I’m just like, oh, I don’t know how I would.
[00:42:00] Jesse: Explain that that definitely adds to the kind of barriers to entry if you will.
[00:42:06] Jesse: But I kind of feel the same way. Like you don’t have to explain anything who are these people. It’s kind of like the whole internet trolls we’re talking about. Like, if you don’t, if this person like barely knows you don’t own them, anything, even if they know you, you don’t owe them anything, it’s your sex life.
[00:42:22] Jesse: Like they don’t have any say in it. So that’s kind of like how I think about it because obviously. There will be some kind of like respectability lens and all that stuff that needs to be navigated, which I think is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. at the end of the day, like your private personal life is your private personal life and is not anybody else’s business.
[00:42:43] Angela: I mean, you’re right. I think I just personally need to build more self-confidence to, to like, believe that for myself and like defend myself in that kind of position when. When, and if anyone were to like, come up to me, like I saw
[00:42:58] Jesse: you, I’m, I’m sure plenty of people will, but it’s, again, it’s like that doesn’t change.
[00:43:03] Jesse: Like, even if you’re a parent, it doesn’t change whether or not you are a good parent or not whether or not you’re teaching your child the correct values that has nothing to, to do with that. Like, yeah. You’re not like a one thing person. Like that’s not all that you are. It’s just the facet of you. Yeah.
[00:43:20] Jesse: Just the concept of the relationship structure that you’re in.
[00:43:23] Angela: True. Oh, well, I’ve learned so much today. Yay. So, and thank you for sharing everything and being open. open, uh, um, transitioning into the fortune cookie clothes. What is the most unexpected thing that you learned about yourself? Being in an open relationship
[00:43:49] Jesse: about myself?
[00:43:50] Jesse: Oh my gosh. , that’s such a great question. I think I’m a lot more flexible than I give myself credit for, because like I’ve always felt, I feel like I live a very regimented life. Like I have an agenda for my day. I have a schedule of things I want to do. I have these like ABC things that I do every day and I don’t like to deviate and being in an open relationship.
[00:44:17] Jesse: Kind of throws a monkey wrench into that a little bit where it’s like, you have to be a little bit more flexible with what you’re doing relationship wise. Um, and I found that, for example, I was saying like, I thought I was gonna die jealousy. I didn’t die of jealousy. So like, There are things like that where I’m just like, oh, I am a little bit more flexible in certain areas of my life than I thought I was, because originally I was like, there’s no way, like I would be feeling so like negative all the time.
[00:44:49] Jesse: I would be like, so uncertain about what my partner is doing all the time. And that’s kind of not necessarily been the case. Um, as we, as we move along in our relationship. So I definitely feel like doing this had made me feel, made me. How flexible I really am. And I can really like explore different things without kind of fear of damage to my core self.
[00:45:12] Jesse: If that makes sense.
[00:45:14] Angela: That’s awesome. Yeah. Proud of you. Thank you. great. Well, this was very enlightening, I will say. Um, so listeners hope you’ve enjoyed this episode as much as I enjoyed asking these questions. These are
[00:45:30] Jesse: very good questions.
[00:45:31] Angela: Thank you. Thank you. Um, if you have more questions for Jesse and he doesn’t feel like his privacy is being invaded, you could write in your questions and see if he chooses to respond or not.
[00:45:43] Angela: Um, at tell us where you’re from@gmail.com. Um, or hit him up if you’re cute. I don’t know, whatever, not him up.
[00:45:52] Jesse: If you’re cute for sure.
[00:45:54] Angela: Normal pics. Don’t send Dick pics to that email. Yo, send your, send your,
[00:45:58] Jesse: if you send nudes, they better be good nudes. Okay. None of them and
[00:46:02] Angela: send them DM Jesse on Instagram.
[00:46:04] Angela: I don’t wanna, I don’t wanna see that shit. We have a shared email account podcast. No, don’t do it. Don’t do it. I will not please. DM. Jesse. Doesn’t wanna see that. Personally , um, or just leave comments, feedback, whatever on what you found interesting or lingering questions you have, or whatever on our socials.
[00:46:26] Angela: Um, and come back next week, cuz we’ll have another episode for you then. And until then CES.