Note: Transcript fully created by automated AI
[00:00:00] Jesse Lin: Hi everyone. I’m Jesse Lin.
[00:00:02] Angela Lin: And I’m Angela Lin. Welcome back to another episode of, but where are You really from? Today, we’re talking about an interesting topic that, uh, randomly kind of like came across. Paths. You know, Ramon reads a lot of things and he is like more of the voracious learner than I am in general in life.
So he often kind of like throws things. He’s learning my way and sometimes they’re interesting to me. Sometimes they’re not. This time, this was interesting to me. So we decided to actually make it an episode topic. It’s this concept of something called the fourth turning. And I don’t know how many of you have heard about this.
I definitely had not really heard about it, um, until Ramon shared it with me. Um, it was, well, it’s a book that was written by, uh, two authors, Neil, how, and William Strauss. Um, William Strauss already passed away, so he’s no longer able to speak on the topic. But Neil, how is still around and. Talks a lot about this like generational theory that they came up with, um, and how it kind of like reveals patterns and cycles within um, different generations like millennials, boomers, you know, the, the things you usually think of when you think of the word generation and also like cycles of history.
But just to give kind of like a high level view of what this concept is essentially, um, Strauss and how came up with this, um, analysis that they saw as. Kind of, uh, over the past like couple centuries of American history at least. I think there are like parallels with other parts of the world probably, but their concept is based in American history since like late 16 hundreds is is kind of like the start of their analysis.
they saw that essentially every like 80 to 90 years, the world would go through a big shift. So there’s kind of like, um, in historical context, it’s like every 20 to 25 years, there’s almost like a new phase or turning. So then when you reach the end of. Four seasons of history, like the world kind of gets reshaped and you like start all over.
So there’s, go
[00:02:32] Jesse Lin: ahead. Oh, I was gonna say, the turnings are important because they have very different like societal, economic, and political views. So that’s why we’re diving into this now. I feel like cuz it’s such a tumultuous time and we love the crystal ball.
[00:02:50] Angela Lin: Indeed. . Yeah. So it’s like, I, I like the way that they talk about it.
In the video that I watched, they called it like seasons, kind of thinking of it as like, you know, spring is like the, the first turning. So that’s like when it’s the high, like everything’s great, like it’s. Basically right after a big crisis. So like the whole world has come together to like create new institutions and like there’s more a c a community-based kind of feeling because they just went through this like really big struggle together.
So it’s all like in it for each other kind of thing and things are thriving. Then you have, um, summertime when things are kind of like peaking and because things are so good, then people are starting to be like, wait, why do I care about the collective? I wanna like find myself. So it’s about like individualism then.
And so then things like start kind of being questioned. There’s like more kind of cultural upheaval during that time. So you can kind of think of like the, uh, hippies and like the free love kind of time when they’re trying to Yeah. Break free from institutions. . Then when it comes to fall is, uh, the unraveling.
So that’s the third turning, and that’s when like shit starts hitting the fan and like, uh, things are crumbling more. And eventually that leads to the winter, which is the fourth turning, which is crisis. And what is fascinating to me why I was like, I’m interested in this topic is they’re like, we are in the fourth turn, like we are in the.
Time period right now, according to their theory and apparently according to them, it started at like 2008, essentially like when the big first financial crisis happened and is still ongoing now. And there’s no like for sure end date yet of this crisis. But like for me at least, I feel like. You Foho can feel it like it’s so tense right now.
Like you said, like the world is in chaos right now and it’s like, when is it gonna peak? Have we peaked? When is it gonna end? Well,
[00:04:55] Jesse Lin: if it’s every 20 to 30 years, it should end in about 10 years. So in 10 years, yeah. We should be back to, we should back to the high cycle. Yes. Which would be interesting to see, but we shall see.
[00:05:09] Angela Lin: Indeed. Yeah. So I was fascinated by it because I was like, this is like, it feels like we’re living through history when, when it’s framed that way. So it’s really cool. Um, and I’m excited to see kind of like what, what that springing the, the next high looks like. Um, Go ahead.
[00:05:26] Jesse Lin: Oh, I was just to say, I just generally like discussing these things because I find it really fascinating when people do like meta-analysis on large groups.
But then on the other hand, I also have like this kind of thing where it’s like, you can’t define me. And I took like psychology 1 0 1, where it’s like the main, the main lesson I took out of Psychology 1 0 1 in college is that you’re less consistent than, than you think you are. Like everyone thinks that they have these sets of like, this is who I am, this is how I behave, like this is how I act, and it’s consistently proven.
people are less consistent than they think they are. So it’s always interesting to me when you see this thing that’s like people of this like group are like this and I’m like, are they though? Like cuz everyone is kind of like faking it a little bit. And so I’m always curious to discuss these things cuz it’s really just kind of like, Fun intellectual salon conversation
[00:06:18] Angela Lin: years, which is a good segue into the other half of their theory, which is around generations and generational archetypes.
So what you’re kind of, what you’re saying, it’s like you’re not as special as you think you are or maybe you are, but so, . I don’t think anyone in including them who created the theory. I don’t think they’re trying to say that like everyone is exactly the same within a generation. But I think it’s pretty undeniable to say that like within a generation, you have a lot of things in common in terms of like the things you care about, the way you act, and basically the way that they talk about it is,
Each generation fits within a certain archetype that they’ve come up with. Obviously like the names of them, but it’s defined by like certain traits that they have that are defined by how they. grew up and so it’s like basically the generational archetypes and the way that we all act is a result of when in the turn the historical world turnings.
We grow up when we come of age, when we become old, because whether we grew up in a time of crisis or a time of like highs affects the way that our parents brought us up and therefore, That our like outlook on life when we were young and if we end up being like really, you know, in it for the community or being like rebellious and not trusting institutions.
So it is super fascinating to me to see this like essentially the crossover of like, When you like, which season of life you are in and which season of life like the world is in, and how that all shapes you. Um, so yeah, that’s kind of like the completion of their theory. I didn’t name all the archetypes, but like, essentially it’s like every, you know, every generation has like certain shapes and then, , um, it’s like cyclical.
So they mentioned like, you know, most people have a lot more in common with their grandparents than they do with their parents because their parents always tried to raise them the opposite way from the way they were raised, so that it makes sense that like it would flip with like, you know, skip a couple generations later with the grandparents and grandkids.
[00:08:41] Jesse Lin: Yeah, and I think originally when we brainstormed this topic, I was like, this, this, I mean, there’s this very, I don’t think. Scientific or, or maybe it is, I’m not really sure, but there’s this idea that the pendulum, the political pendulum, you know, just swings back and forth every couple of years, and I definitely feel that, where it’s like you go one direction, then people are like, Ooh, it went too far.
Course correct. Then you go the other direction and it’s kind of just like a ping pong tennis match where you just kind of bounce back and forth between these two ends of, so, Related
[00:09:12] Angela Lin: to like swinging the pendulum and also kind of like, essentially like, again, we’re not as special as we think we are. Um, what I also liked was again, this idea that like we are more similar to a previous generation than we think we are.
Because I think a lot of times, especially with the young people, like we often think we’re like special snowflakes in that like our experiences are so distinct that like no one gets us and we’re in like such a. Thing than like the boomers or whatever that, that like, there’s no way they could understand why we care about certain things or the way that we act, but actually according to their theory, like I said, like you would have a lot more in common with your grandparents than with your parents.
So, I selfishly picked apart just the gen , the generational parallels that, uh, affect us and like, uh, the younger generation. So we are both millennials. So millennials are more in line with the GI generation or like greatest generation, which is. Real old people. It’s like that forever. The age group is 1901 to 1927.
So they’re actually older than like Biden, like Biden’s actually in the generation after that. So this is the heroes generation. And so we are peop, that’s an archetype. Heroes are the ones who are born after us. Uh, the awakening. So I guess if spring is the awakening, The summer. Um, so this is a time when we grew up.
It was a time when people were shifting more into like individualism. Um, so because that was the way we were raised, we actually veer the other way where we are more team oriented and we’re like really civic duty oriented and like trying to like work together to do better for the group. Um, and. , we become like midlife, which is often how they talk about it as like the kind of like important time basically when you’re like an adult that can like, do, make change happen for like the world.
So I think they said like mid twenties to mid forties or something is kinda like midlife. Um, so this is the time when we’re like, Apparently very aggressive advocates for things like economic prosperity, public optimism, civic energy, and all this stuff, which I think is pretty in line with like obviously all the like social activism and stuff is like, was spearheaded by our generation.
According to the video I watched Tony Robbins, at least he was the co-host of the video that I was watching. He was like, I’m really excited for millennials because they’re, they’re the heroes and they’re gonna be the ones who like fix all the shit that’s
[00:12:03] Jesse Lin: about to break , not according to, not according to all mainstream media who have already moved on to the next generation and they hate.
Oh, we, oh, we give up. We give up. Like just, it’s already on you guys. Like, we’re not even
[00:12:16] Angela Lin: like, we, we got nothing . I know what the hell. It’s because, well, it that’s so interesting. It’s because the people in power now are so freaking old. They’re the, they’re the silent generation. Yeah. Which brings me to their parallel is actually Gen Z.
Um, so silent generation, which is what Biden is part of which is the. Hold on. I got the, the years, oh, sorry. Um, they’re the artists. Oh, they are artists Archetype. Yeah, artist archetype. But I have the years of when, wait, we
[00:12:50] Jesse Lin: we’re hero. Who’s us? We’re hero. Gen X is before us. That’s no matter. That’s correct, yes.
So then, , so then No, they’re
[00:12:58] Angela Lin: boomers are before Gen X. And then, um, silent Generation, which is Biox. Oh,
[00:13:03] Jesse Lin: biden’s before
[00:13:04] Angela Lin: Boomer. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I know, right? Because I feel like in social or like pop culture things, boomers are like, , the oldest people, we can think
[00:13:13] Jesse Lin: of it just like anyone over 60 is a boomer.
[00:13:15] Angela Lin: That’s what I think of too. I know, right? But no, apparently because it’s like 20 to 25 years, which makes sense. Fair. But yeah, I was like, wait, Biden’s not a boomer, and he’s not. He’s part of silent generation. Okay, fair. Yeah. Which is like 1920, uh, 1923 to 1943 is when those people were. I’m like, wow, fucking ancient.
He’s like a mummy over here. Yeah, he’s really old. Who was born in that age. Um, . But apparently these, these folks, the artist archetype are the ones who grew up during crisis. So because you’re a child or like really young during crisis, your role during that time in the world is to just like shut up and like don’t cause trouble.
So apparently because of that, they are more like quiet and conformity. Like oriented where they don’t wanna rock the boat and they’re actually more likely to want to kind of like, change themselves to please other people or to like make things easier for the group. Um, which is interesting. Uh, and yeah, it’s like the positives that they named, which I think is like pretty on par with what I’ve been seeing with Gen Z is like they’re caring.
they’re open-minded and they’re more willing to look at nuance, um, and like distinguishing between things. Hmm. Um, so I actually, I actually do think that’s really interesting because I think with the idea of like young people, right? Mm-hmm. , a lot of times, at least the way I think of it is like, young people are like, we are like, we have more in common with Gen Z than like, I don’t know, boomers or like Gen X would.
when we’ve talked about previously the idea of like cancel culture and like people not being willing to have like nuanced discussion. It’s . It’s funny that Gen Z is described as like being the opposite, where they are like more interested in having nuance where I guess like millennials and Gen X would be the ones that feed more into like, um, black and white, like tribalism.
Mm-hmm. so. I guess that makes us less in common with , with Gen Z than I thought we would be considering that our ages are
[00:15:35] Jesse Lin: closer. Well, honestly, like, and obviously I’m gonna have to, you know, bring it back to myself cuz it’s all about me. But I look at a lot of these, the definitions like the prophet, the nomad, the hero, the artist.
I’m like, I don’t. Fit here. I don’t see this for me, and I do think it’s really, although I see it for other people, so when you were describing some of those things, I was like, okay, that makes sense. For like Joe Biden in his history as a senator, like he’s been known to be like a very much like a deal maker kind of situation in his current role as kind of the president and the spokesperson from the Jim Crack party, maybe less.
[00:16:12] Angela Lin: I mean, I would argue he’s like, his most known thing since becoming president is like not doing that much , like there’s not like a lot of boat rocking. Mm-hmm. . It’s a lot of like status quo Yeah. Stuff. Yeah. Which would fit the idea
[00:16:31] Jesse Lin: of like not shaking the boat and . Yeah. Yeah. Literally not shaking the. But yeah, no, I just, I think it’s funny because sometimes I look at these things and I’m like, oh, this is like, kind of like when you, you might read like today’s horoscope and you’ll be like, that’s me.
And then the next day you’re like, that’s not me. Like very often for mine as a tourist, I see like, um, you want to go to like the forest and lie on a beta mosque, and I’m like, that sounds disgusting. That I, I mean, anyways, that’s just my personal comment. I just thought it was, it’s, it’s kind of interesting when I look at it, cause I’m like, sometimes I feel like it fits and sometimes I feel like it doesn’t for me.
And then I look at like other figures, um, that might be described like that. I’m like, oh yeah, that fits, that doesn’t that fits? That doesn’t.
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Thanks y’all. Yeah, totally. I mean, it’s obviously like very broad strokes because like I said, everyone is so different from each other. It’s more just like there are some underlying things that are common across us. , for example, you just said you, you don’t see yourself in any of that. I think you’re pretty civic oriented.
Like you said, you like literally like volunteer with your community. You know, like, I don’t think my volunteer works. I’m not community stuff. Like you’re like more involved with like your local politics or like, you know, who’s in power and stuff like that. Like. There are certain elements that I for sure see in you of like that description that I don’t necessarily see in me, for example.
Yeah. You know? Mm-hmm. . But like there’s like, like you said with the horoscopes, it’s like you kind of pick apart the parts that like , do you resonate with you? Yeah. And like the rest you throw away. Yeah. It’s
[00:18:37] Jesse Lin: like, yeah. It is interesting kind of what you were saying about how we are less inclined, or millennials and X are less inclined to have new one’s conversations and Gen Z is more open.
I don’t know, like. I’m, again, I have been branching my friendship branch out to more Gen Zs, but I kind of feel like everyone is more or less on the same page. I do feel like for some of my friends that are millennials and Gen X, they’re less open to broaching a controversial topic in series depth than, um, gen Zs or, or like, you have to become really close friends with them before they’ll be like, and my opinion on this is,
So it’s, maybe it’s not, is it, it’s kind of like openness to having that conversation, but not necessarily not having that conversation, if that makes sense.
[00:19:28] Angela Lin: Yeah, I think, um, well, something that they mentioned in the video that I watched, which I was like, yes, is, um, it’s okay. They mentioned that in terms of crisis, which is where we are now, the fourth turning tribalism is becoming I is like an important element to it.
It’s like the shit is so bad that people are grouping, they’re tending to like starting to group into like self identifiable. Groups. So like whether that be political or like social, for example, which I was like, yes, because. We’ve talked about before, but like it feels, at least maybe we’re skewed in this like subjective feel, but it feels like right now the climate of like Democrats versus Republicans, red versus blue is like so much more divided than like it used to be.
It’s like so extreme the way that like those opposing parties are portrayed and like talked about, like you talked about that. Was it the New Yorker or what’s. , some magazine had the like split view of the, I think it was New Yorker. Yeah. Yeah. And it was like, um, Trump flag versus like a Yeah. Pride flag or whatever.
Yeah. And so related to that, in the video they talked about, like a, a poll was done recently where they asked Americans like, what is the most divisive, like ideology or whatever that would make it. So like you could not possibly. Next to somebody who like subscribes that. And politics was like the number one thing.
It was like, doesn’t matter religion, like all these other things. It’s like literally, if it’s like , if you’re, you know, the opposite political party for me, like you are the least desirable neighbor for me.
[00:21:14] Jesse Lin: So these groupings in the video, they’re like subgroupings within the archetypes?
[00:21:20] Angela Lin: No, no, no. This is just, this is now within the context of the historical turning, like the world.
Um, environment. Okay. Is like during a crisis time, which is where we are now, the fourth turning, this is the time when people in general are, are gravitating towards tribalism. So they’re looking for their groups to like identify with. Okay. They don’t wanna be like, everyone has stuff in common. They want to say it like, you are not with us, you’re against us.
Um,
[00:21:50] Jesse Lin: so all the archetypes does, does regardless of the archetype are grouping in that. because
[00:21:56] Angela Lin: everyone all, I think so. It’s like a general, okay. Yeah. It was a general statement about the historical, like world climate. And the reason I bring it up is because I’m not saying that Gen Z doesn’t necessarily subscribe to that, but I think maybe because millennials now we are more like in the, in the part of our lives where we are growing in to have like influence over things.
Mm-hmm. that we like, we care. Government and like being able to change things. It’s all relative, but like our generation can run for office, you know, like thing. True. We can do, we are starting to become leaders within like, Private organizations and stuff, we can actually impact things. Um, we are more likely, I think, to subscribe to like that tribalism than necessarily Gen Z.
Hmm. Um, I, I say that because for example, like. , the way I see it is the tribalism is coming across in many different ways. Like politics is a huge one, but also like the social strife that we’ve been talking about, um, in like many episodes. So like, since George Floyd happened, like things have become very polarized within like social and racial kind of like sides of the spectrum of like, are you essentially like, are you a racist or you’re not a racist, trying to make it so black and white with those kinds of things.
And like if you don’t agree with like these exact things and like, you are not with us, you’re against us. Or like interracial. Strife as well. Like the, it just, I’m seeing so many schisms that, like when he mentioned that tribalism is like a big part of crisis time, I was like, yeah, I can see that. Because like especially socially, it’s become so like I’m in this group, not that group.
You can’t understand my group because you’re not in it. Like that kind of stuff.
[00:23:52] Jesse Lin: Hmm. Interesting. Okay.
[00:23:55] Angela Lin: Um, and so, sorry. The reason I said that I don’t think Gen Z is as, um, into that as millennials, is that we originally talked about nuance and. I don’t have that many Gen Z friends, but as you know, I waste a lot of time on TikTok because of promoting our podcast.
And so I watch a lot of TikTok. And the reason, the biggest thing I noticed that is different between TikTok and Instagram, for example, and we all know Instagram is where millennials live, and TikTok is where Gen Z lives. All generations use TikTok to be fairer, but like Gen Z is kind of like the bread and butter of TikTok.
The main difference is that TikTok is where dialogue happens, and Instagram doesn’t really like, at least the algorithm doesn’t favor like talking and like debating things in in the videos. And on TikTok for example, a lot of stuff that’s like the most high performing shit is like, for example, a Gen Z person will record a video and be like, um,
Tell me about a time that like you had a controversial opinion or like, tell me your most controversial opinion that like most people would shoot, shoot on you for. And then it’s like sparking the dialogue where people then stitch that video to be like, I actually hate blah, blah, blah. Or like , you know?
And so it’s all about to be, and they don’t shy away from controversy and they don’t necessarily, like, I think they entertain a more gray area. millennials might, or like older generations might. And so that’s where I’m like, I can see that kind of description within Gen Z, literally in just how they discuss things on TikTok.
[00:25:44] Jesse Lin: Hmm. That’s interesting cuz I wonder if it’s just like the visibility of their discussion as a function. Of the mechanism by which they have the discussion because I, I would never have a serious discussion with anybody on social media. Right. But what you’re saying is completely different for them where, I don’t know how serious the discussion is, but like they are sharing things about themselves that may or may not be consequential to their daily life.
And that’s like something I would, wouldn’t really do. Like I lurk, like I have those, those are, they’re. Threads on Reddit where it’s like, what’s your, what’s the most controversial opinion on this and that, and like people have that kind of like discussion. But I personally don’t participate in it. I’m not representative of everyone in the millennial generation.
But I also don’t have like really visible social media driven conversations around anything that’s, uh,
[00:26:40] Angela Lin: Well, that’s something we’ve talked about previously, which is that even though we grew up, like millennials are often associated with being like really technologically savvy, but Gen Z is the first generation that like literally grew up on the internet.
Like there was no pre-internet life for them versus we knew that like dial up transition phase or like, you know, we remember the days without internet and so we’ve talked about before. , gen Z is so comfortable with social media that it is like an extension of real life for them, and TikTok versus Instagram is like a really important, I think, division of that because Instagram is still acknowledged to be more of like your fake reality of like when you’re, yeah, you’re trying to present like the best part of your life versus TikTok is where people are real.
Like a lot of people, and I’ve done this as well. Real conversations on there and they don’t have makeup on. They like look like as shitty as possible because it’s like their real self and they are sharing like legit things about their lives and it’s not weird for them to do that. It’s like it’s not that weird for them to think that you can build community within like an online platform.
And so, yeah. Anyways, this is kind of going off topic, but it was about the idea of like, they’re not afraid of like, Talking about things that might be controversial and kind of like instigating that kind of dialogue.
[00:28:03] Jesse Lin: Yeah, I think I, sorry, I don’t want to bring it further. I, I, I think my point was just that like, I don’t know if it is that they are more open to have that conversation.
I’m trying to point to the fact that it’s just their conversation is more visible by nature of the fact that it’s happening on social media. But I feel like you could have similar conversations with your friends. You just wouldn’t have that on social media necessarily. As a older generation
[00:28:26] Angela Lin: person, but that’s a question.
Do you have those kinds of conversations with your friends? Oh, like controversial conversations? I, I think I have very few friend circles where it’s like kosher to bring up controversial topics.
[00:28:40] Jesse Lin: I think it depends on, I mean, I don’t talk to all my friends about, like, that’s the thing is I don’t like, It.
It’s not broadcast in that manner, but that doesn’t mean that the conversation doesn’t happen. I think it’s just like the volume of the conversation. Maybe like I don’t broach that topic with all of my friends the way that someone might do that on TikTok, where it’s like just open
[00:28:59] Angela Lin: to everybody. Yeah. I mean, for example, I have maybe three friends I would ever talk to about controversial topics.
Like I know the podcast is a different thing because it’s more similar to TikTok and we’re, we’re like, whatever, all the controversial shit, but like. , I f and I always like dance around the subject. Like I feel like it is not as open of a space in general to just like, you couldn’t just, like you said, you wouldn’t talk to all friends about it.
Yeah, sure. And why is that? Is because like, you know, certain friends would be like miffed or like easily not like entertain it or, you know, have more staunch beliefs. Yeah. You know, so.
[00:29:42] Jesse Lin: All right, listeners, welcome to the Fortune cookie, the closing segment of the podcast because we always like to end on a sweet treat.
I think we want to, again, well, this whole episode has been a giant crystal ball, but we want to pull out the crystal ball within the crystal ball and think about what might be better, improved, altered once this phase of crisis that we are currently in. Is. .
[00:30:12] Angela Lin: Angel, would you like to? Yeah, so zooming back out from the generational stuff, cuz we’ve been talking about generations Yeah.
The last like 20 minutes. But yeah, back to the idea of like, we are in the fourth turning crisis mode crisis. Yeah. What’s gonna, what’s it gonna look like when we like come into the next first turning and then we’re like in a high, um, well I will add one more piece of context I think is important for this kind of crystal balling is that, um, they noted.
At the end, or like the climax of every, uh, crisis is when shit actually like changes because they noted like, Things don’t actually change when it’s like times of peace. It’s only at like the worst of the worst that like shit actually happens. So like they gave the example of like the last fourth turning was ended with World War II and like post World War II is when all of these really important, like global.
Um, alliances formed, for example, like the un nato, like all these global organizations that we know of today didn’t exist until the end of like the last crisis. So that is kind of keep that in mind of like the, the scale of what is possible for our next, like high. Um, I think honestly the first thing that comes to mind is like some sort of economic, financial system.
Upheaval because like shit is not working right now with like the way that like the banks are functioning and like the stock market and stuff in terms of like how easily people can like, just like lose all their money or like be taken advantage of by banks with like really complicated financial, uh, product products and stuff.
Did you redo? Yeah. I mean, thinking about like, I, when he said like the start, the, the start of the four starting was 2008. Bitch. That was a long time ago. like leaving apparently a long haven’t time ago. Yeah. And apparently things haven’t changed because I feel like we’re reliving 2008 right now in terms of like the financial situation being as like shitty as it is.
So that’s the first thing that jumps out at me is like, something’s gotta give here with like, and it’s not even the us it’s like the entire world’s like kind of fucked up right now. Like, Country is not doing great with like inflation. We talked about inflation in a previous episode, like everyone’s pretty bad right now.
Um, and incoming inequality is like so fucking extreme. So like, I don’t know what it is, but like that’s the first like big thing I think will hopefully be tackled by like the climax of this fort turning.
[00:32:50] Jesse Lin: Okay. Well I will say then that mine is, as people coalesce behind whatever. This is like this problem solving concept that we don’t forget that at the end of the day, I think the problems that we’re trying to solve are human problems, meaning they, they affect people.
So what I see a lot of the times is like, how can we save the economy? How can we change this like structure, but it removes from the conversation the people that it impacts, right? Like that conversation. For me, it should never be like, how can we save the economy? It’s like, how can we help the regular people who are struggling to make enough money to buy food for their family?
How can we help those people make more money or support them so they can buy the food that they need for their family? Like I just hope that. as we become more solution oriented and coalesce towards this kind of building of whatever future there is, that that’s kind of kept at the forefront. And, and people don’t forget that because I think that that is what’s really has gotten us into a lot of trouble is that we’re now in the place where we are trying to fix problems to something that doesn’t actually.
Anyone at the end of the day, like it might have at some point in time, whatever it is that you’re trying to fit, what institution, your process, whatever, but it doesn’t right now. And so as we look to solve problems in the future, we need to remember that it needs to serve a purpose. It needs to serve a human purpose.
[00:34:31] Angela Lin: Yeah, I agree. I agree. It’s definitely like how do, and it’s similar to what we talked about with the student loan forgiveness thing. I see it as like a band-aid versus an actual solution. Like you were saying, when humans are removed from like the center of whatever you’re trying to fix, that’s when band-aids come out.
So for example, like post 2008 crisis with the financial shit, it was like, oh, we gotta like slap banks on the wrist when they like take advantage of people with the mortgage back security, whatever. We don’t need to get into that. But like it was all just about like punishment and kind of like preventing.
Th banks from being like as bad, but it wasn’t about like, but how do we protect people? You know, like, because obviously we’ve repeated that we’re like, not in the exact same way, but like people are being hurt quite strongly right now with the way that the financial system is set up. So hopefully, at least with that regard, and like any other aspect that is tackled after the sport turning, It is more like shit is not working to like the benefit of mankind right now.
So like, how do we rethink the system as opposed to like patching problems that like don’t actually solve. . It’s the main issue. So I agree. I think it definitely needs to, and hopefully with the idea of like collectivism being like the driving force of like all these innovations, they would put people at the forefront.
but we’ll, we’ll find out .
[00:35:55] Jesse Lin: That’s my opt i, my optimistic take and hope is that they will.
[00:36:00] Angela Lin: Yeah. Well, I, I think it’s, I think it will because if, I mean, if things are really as cyclical as they are, certainly the UN for example, is like a great, like step forward. Hope. Well, better than no. Un I mean, like don’t gonna be that fake.
That’s true. That’s true. That’s true. No one’s perfect, but it’s like it’s, imagine the world before the UN was created, like there was, I’m sure shit would be like crazier right now with geopolitics if the UN didn’t exist. So at least the initial aim, right? With something like that being formed. To put like people at the forefront.
So if that is kind of the bar of like what was created after the last crisis, I do think there’s hope that like human-centered thinking will drive the next wave of overturn of stuff. But we will find out in 10 ish years, , oh god. After 10 more years of struggling ,
[00:36:59] Jesse Lin: my hope is I will marry rich and be on a private island in 10 years.
So, and their,
[00:37:04] Angela Lin: it don’t matter which turning it is for me, fucked up by what the financial system and their assets don’t get fucked up. Cuz someone could be rich right now, but that shit could go away tomorrow in today’s climate. Lord. Okay. Well, with that, we hope you all are staying safe and, uh, stable during this time of continued crisis.
Let us know what you thought about this. Um, is this the first time that you heard about this concept of the fourth turning, or did you hear about it before? What resonated with you? What completely didn’t make any sense to you or you? Stupid. Let us know in the comments of wherever you’re watching this, cuz I do think it’s a pretty interesting topic.
So let us know what you think and we’ll just keep the conversation going and come back next week because we’ll have a, a fresh new episode for you then. And until then, the same bitches.