Episode 4 – The Born Identity: Return to the Motherland
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Full Transcript (Note: Transcribed via AI, may contain errors)
Jesse Lin 0:11
Hi, I’m Jesse Lin.
Angela Lin 0:13
And I’m Angela Lin. And welcome to but where are you really from?
Jesse Lin 0:17
Yes, we’re back with another exciting episode. And I think this week we want to do something fun and introduce you guys to where in Asia we’re actually really from. Our parents immigrated from a small country called Taiwan on a map. It’s like maybe 85 to 100 miles off the southeast coast of China and it’s south of Japan and Korea. It’s this, you know, pretty small island, the population the amount of people who live there, it’s like 23 million people for reference Japan, which has 126 million people. And most of the people in Taiwan actually live in a major metropolitan scenarios. So about half the population live in the Taipei and New Taipei City area. But for such a small country, it’s actually really, really diverse. There are tons of different languages spoken there. Mandarin Taiwanese, Hopkin haka. And they’re also 16 officially recognized indigenous groups, each with their own dialect and language and culture. Also, some fun facts or interesting facts about the country is that they recently re elected the first female president, and they are the first country in Asia to legally allow for same sex marriage. Yes, yes.
Angela Lin 1:40
very different than in Western culture. From a religion standpoint, there is a slight majority is the rism. That’s leaving religion that’s practice. Around a third of the population, followed by Taoism, which Jesse and I were actually both raised on or our families are all Taoist, it’s a sect of Buddhism, you can probably say Buddhism, little small verses like Christianity in Western culture. Obviously, it’s like a majority for a lot of different countries, but it’s really only less than 4% in Taiwan, and just for some grounding, so you know, kind of who came before the Taiwanese way, way, way long ago, the Dutch I think were the first to like, set their sights on Taiwan. But that was like centuries ago, that Japanese also took over Taiwan for a bit and Taiwanese people actually have a really interesting and like very positive relationship with Japanese people. There’s a lot of similarities between our two cultures. So that’s a pretty friendly relationship. And then, of course, most recently, it’s the Chinese relationship there where Taiwan was actually founded by people who were Chinese and fled from China to kind of start their own world. On the ideologies that they have.
Jesse Lin 3:01
So now you guys know a little bit more about Taiwan and where our families came from. So this week, we’re taking you back to the motherland of our parents, Taiwan. So I think we’ll kick it off and just say this discuss our roots, like how much of your family is still there?
Angela Lin 3:23
The majority of my family is actually still there. It’s a very few of us actually emigrated to immigrated. I don’t know which one it is, uh, when you leave the country, whatever.
Jesse Lin 3:41
Immigrated
Angela Lin 3:43
there’s the one with the E and then there’s the one with the I. That’s what I’m saying. I don’t know which it is, s okay. Anyways, very few of us actually moved to America. So, like I mentioned, maybe in our first episode that my parents are both one of like 1 million Children and from their sides like my dad’s side, only he actually moved to moved out of Taiwan. And on my mom’s side only to like her and one other moved. So when I go back, it’s like everyone’s there because it’s most of my extended family is still out there. How about you?
Jesse Lin 4:23
I have kind of like a mixed experience actually, because most of my dad’s family is in California at this point. I think he only has one brother. I have only basically one on gore who still lives in Taiwan on my dad’s side. Um, but definitely when I go back, the family connection I really have is with my mom’s side of family because almost her entire family is still there. Like she has four sisters and a brother and they all still live in various parts of Taiwan. So when I go back my my family connection is with that larger group of family restaurants Nicholson calm I made myself a commitment about two to three years ago basically to try to visit Taiwan at least every two years, just because my grandparents are getting older, my answer getting older and I feel like I’m lacking some kind of like familial connection there.
Angela Lin 5:18
That’s so interesting. And I am really proud of you that you’re making that kind of commitment. I feel like I should be better about that. Because the last time I went back was three or four years ago. And that was the first time in eight years that I had been back so it’d been like a huge gap and I went back for my cousin’s wedding. So um, but I definitely like feel some guilt for not going back as frequently especially because my parents are retired, so they spend like half the year in Taiwan so I could easily go back.
Jesse Lin 5:50
As I get older. There’s definitely this more like feeling of searching for some more familiar routes and that more familiar connection
Angela Lin 6:00
You’re also an only child so that’s
Jesse Lin 6:02
probably yeah I know lonely inside forever
Jesse Lin 6:09
so tell us what you usually do when you go back to visit family there because it is quite some time you know between visits.
Angela Lin 6:17
What do you usually do, I mean we we eat a lot like my and uncle’s are all really good at cooking so like they’ll cook but also we’ll have to hit up all the hotspots like you know the night markets are generally are the best food is that so and i they always cater to like what you want to do at least one I wonder though, what do you want to do? I’m like, Yeah, all the things so I’m like, I need stinky tofu I need yan shu ji [salty crispy chicken].
Jesse Lin 6:45
Yeah, crispy chicken. Any like boba tea.
Angela Lin 6:51
I don’t crave boba.
Jesse Lin 6:54
I love boba.
Angela Lin 6:57
Okay, that like sweet dou hua, yeah that basically we hit up all the foods and then Taiwan has all these like fun little like coastal towns that also have mostly like really good food and like cute things to do there so I think they just try to like, show me around and because I’m not there that much but it’s a lot of eating. How about you?
Jesse Lin 7:22
I would say it’s about the same and they’re also very, very open to building the schedule around what you want to do, which is really funny because usually I have like no idea what I want to do and I’m just like, show me whatever, but definitely a lot of eating our way across the country. And also the last time I was there, though, I was there for a longer period of time and it was the second time I had been in for years. So I was like keeping to that pattern that I wanted to. So we were able to do like some other stuff that I would say is less touristy. So we went to this tours of have one of those like small night markets that you talked about with just all ceramics like literally. It’s mostly like plates and bowls and like,
Angela Lin 8:08
Where?
Jesse Lin 8:10
But yeah, yeah, super fun. super cheap. It’s underrated people don’t think about it a lot. Yeah.
Jesse Lin 8:16
Yeah. I mean, so we’re talking about like, our recent experiences like how do you feel? How do you feel like traveling to Taiwan has changed for you from like, really small to like now,
Angela Lin 8:27
it’s completely different. I mean, when I went every three years like I said, when I was a kid, it was always summer vacation. And so it’s been like, two three months. They’re like the whole break there and I live at my grandma’s house. And and it kind of I looking back on it. I feel really like guilty thinking about it this way, but it almost felt like a prison because I was like, because I was stuck there all summer. And I understood everyone like what my mom raised me speaking Chinese. So I can I can Communicate just fine with everyone, but it was like, you know, I grew up Americans I went there and I was like, What is this like country bumpkin even though I was in Taipei, right? Like compared to, to the US, it just kind of fell a little bit more country the way that they, they run things and and I was a kid so I couldn’t like go out by myself. So I was like in the house and like beholden to whatever the adults were doing. And also, I’m highly allergic to mosquitoes, so I just like hated it because it’s mosquito season and all the time in Taiwan. So I didn’t like it that much when I was a kid, which like, makes me really sad to think about it now. But um, yeah, thinking about that versus now when I go back. Totally different because I think you mentioned this and part of like, why you are making that commitment to go back every two years. I think there’s the like, seeking out the familial connection, but also, I think as we grow older, like The reason we’re starting this podcast, right, like, we want to get back to our roots, like you said, and like, appreciate our culture more. And so when I go back I like I’m seeing it almost with fresh eyes because I have a greater openness to like receiving what’s around me and like understanding the culture behind what I’m doing there. So it’s totally different. How about you?
Jesse Lin 10:27
Yeah, I agree to a certain extent, although I will say I always had it just was, I think, as you mentioned, it just wasn’t as much fun as I wanted it to be like, you know, I think I have a few cousins that are like my age are a little bit younger. So whenever I would go back like we would just have so much fun just hanging out with each other. But I think the main problem is that we, I would typically go back like as during my childhood in during the summers and it’s not always a good time for us. The locals because they still have to go to school and they start to go to work. So you don’t necessarily see everyone that you want to during that time that you’re there. I also feel like I kind of had like an opposite experience, in a sense because I now live in a city. I love living in a city but I think when I was a kid, I was probably like, I’m not really interested in being this like big, noisy, gross, hot place like Taipei, I really enjoyed being my country, bumpkin self and in the countryside. But now as you mentioned, as I’ve gotten older, like interests have shifted a little bit, I still really enjoy going back to the countryside and enjoying that nature aspect of it because I’m a tourist. But also like I really am also looking to seek out activities like in the big cities, going out, seeing what the nightlife looks like, and like things that you wouldn’t have any interest in as like Ted, really. So I think that there’s a whole world of activity To use and things to find, explore and really connect with her that I just, I haven’t yet.
Angela Lin 12:06
Alright, so we’ve talked about a lot of the fun stuff that we’ve done both as kids and also now as adults seeing things with different eyes. But something I think that’s very relevant for this podcast because it is all about identity is talking about how we think about our identity when we are back in the motherland. Does that perspective for you like, who you are, how you think about yourself change when you are in Taiwan versus here in the US?
Jesse Lin 12:37
I feel like in the US, there isn’t a heritage for me to be a part of. So I don’t belong in that sense. And in Taiwan, there is a heritage for me to be a part of, but I haven’t been a part of it. So I can’t lay claim to any of that either. So you’re always left feeling kind of like the other and I do have to agree with you that life is pretty pretty great. I mean, my Mandarin is definitely not as good as yours. I’m definitely missing probably like a lot more vocabulary words than you are. So it’s definitely always a challenge to go back and try to communicate the things that you want to say to your family members. Yeah.
Angela Lin 13:19
Yeah. Yeah, I definitely echo that, um, not so much that not fitting in here. I think I feel that mostly when I am surrounded by a lot of like, non when I’m around a lot of white people. I mean, I’m not a very PC. I just anyways, it’s a that’s the only time when I like don’t feel like I totally belong, because it’s so obvious that you’re different from everyone else. But otherwise, I feel like very grounded in America and like, I’m American, but when I’m in Taiwan, I naturally feel like I don’t belong because I am really dark. So Like Jesse and I both grew up in Southern California and it’s like you tan and like you’re out in the sun and whatever but versus in Asia for women, right? Like you the ideal form of beauty is to be like as white as pale as possible. That’s what beauty looks like. So even from like the get go I I stand up because I’m super dark.
Angela Lin 14:21
Like I distinctly remember this was in America, but it was when I was I my mom introduced me to like an auntie that I hadn’t seen in a really long time that I also didn’t remember, but she remembered me from when I was kid. It’s just like, oh, wow, you’re so pretty. If you weren’t so dark, and I was like, um, but anyways, so like, just from like an appearance standpoint, I stand out. But also I just Yeah, I don’t feel like I really fit in. I do feel like a big part of that is the community slash like conformity of a country versus like, again, we talked about this all the time, but versus the individualism of the US because when I do go back, like you can very easily see the trends that are happening in Taiwan I think it’s very common for Asian countries in general that when there’s a trend that’s happening like everyone adopts it so when I go back I can’t help but feel like oh this like sea of women all have the same hair. They’re all wearing like the same clothes. And so like naturally stand out from from that perspective too and like wearing whatever I want to wear and whatnot.
Angela Lin 15:30
But anyways, on the topic of language, even though I can speak Chinese and like with the same accent as everyone else there, I still don’t want to like the total vocabulary that you know, you would need to like fully express what you’re thinking and your opinion on stuff. So I do feel that have like a disconnect because I can’t say everything I want to say. So. Yeah, that’s a big part of it, as well and like, I feel like even for my family Normally, they’re super welcoming, and they want to like treat me well. And honestly, I feel like a celebrity when I’m there because I’m like, oh my god. Yeah, we’re just like, really nice, but um, it just, it doesn’t feel like I’m part of them. Because I’m already like, apart because I’m this like, special guest. That’s not. Yeah, yeah.
Jesse Lin 16:25
Yeah, I, I think I definitely agree with that. And also for me, I mean, I’m a big ruminator. As you know, I ruminate on many, many things longer than I should. But for me, when I go back, I always think about what my life would have been like if my parents didn’t leave, right. Because you have, you can see, you can see what it would be like because it’s the life that your family members have there. So there’s always for me a little bit of like melancholy going back because I’m like, Man Like this social safety net and a sense this group of people that are so welcoming to me now, I didn’t really have that growing up necessarily because the family that was with us in California growing up is much smaller. And the feeling of connection is not quite the same. Even for those family members who are close together in California, Hmm,
Angela Lin 17:26
yeah, I have ruminated on the like what if scenario before but I think it’s more contextualized with like, where I am now versus where my cousins are at now. And like, this is very poignant. When I went back three or four years ago, I like hung out again with a cousin who’s only like two years older than me, and we’re just catching up on life like what do you do all the time? Oh, at the time, I was in business school, so I had no job yet, but I was like telling him about the types of company So I was trying to get jobs that and then we were talking about his job and like he and many of his classmates, former classmates are all like engineers. We’re just like, would make big money here, right? And it’s like a very coveted position. And he’s like, yeah, we make like $30,000 a year like US dollars of like, What the actual fuck, right? And it’s just like, the same schools translated to the US would Garner us so much more value than in Taiwan. And it’s not just Taiwan. It’s a lot of other countries, even outside of, you know, Asia, but like, I just, I really felt the privilege. Like, the only thing that’s different here is that my parents happened to be able to get me up, you know, have me outside of the country versus you, your parents stayed here. And there is again, like a sense of guilt because we just like neither of us controls how our parents decided like what to do with their lives and then therefore our own fates. And this is just like, how the cards played out.
Jesse Lin 19:06
yeah. And it’s it’s super jarring, right? It’s super jarring because when you think about your your sense of self, you’re like, I constructed this, I built this. But then when you start looking into your roots, you start to see like how many pieces of yourself are, in a sense, like pre determined, like you didn’t really built it like it what it became, from your background, your identity from where your parents came from.
Angela Lin 19:33
Yeah. And speaking of like, you know, things that were not built by us that were given to us and also came from our parents, right, like, I’m just going to continue eating. I’m going to continue double downing on my sense of guilt, everything here, but like my parents both talked about, they both grew up super poor, and like to the point where they were like, Yeah, when we were kids, we walked Like one or two miles a day to school and we’re barefoot because we couldn’t afford shoes and like, we had so many brothers and sisters that like you weren’t special and like you just eat Oh, you were trying to like survive. And so comparing that with like, our, you know, you and I grew up like, upper middle class at best, right? But like that compared to actual poverty is just like, night and day
Jesse Lin 20:27
A world of difference.
Angela Lin 20:28
And like, puts everything into perspective, like every fight I’ve ever had with my parents. And so I’m like, Do I have any right to have had any fights? Because they’ve like, sacrificed so much to give me something infinitely better than they had as they were kids and it just again, I feel so fucking guilty every time I think about that difference and what they had to do to get us here.
Jesse Lin 20:53
Yeah, yeah, definitely the same way. Think back from with my parents to like they grew up with Super poor in the countryside. And actually, it’s really, you know, my parents, my mom told me the where they used to live is the same place where they live now, but there’s actually a big house now. And there’s an annex. So my mom’s side of the family makes tea. And that annex is basically where all the tea is, like dried and stuff in need. It’s not that big. It’s probably like the size of like a shotgun house. And she was like, when we grew up, this is where we lived in the annex. There was no house at that time. So it’s all these things, I think, definitely put some context to the privileges that we’ve had growing up with. But I also think that I feel like I’ve inherited what my parents wanted in terms of a better life into my sense of identity now, like they took a huge risk moving into a completely different country where they didn’t speak the language and didn’t know if they would have jobs. Didn’t know necessarily where they would be living in like a year from now. And they made it work. And I feel like part of that ethic and that desire to take risks and move on to something greater and better for yourself. That’s definitely something that I think that I’ve inherited as part of my identity.
Angela Lin 22:30
We are now in our fortune cookie closing section because who doesn’t like to close with a sweet treat? As always, we would love to invite all of you to send in your personal stories about today’s topic about going back to the motherland what you love about it, what you hate about it, how you feel about your identity while you’re there. And we said this in the last episode, we but we definitely really want to start sharing other people’s perspectives on the show. Well in future episodes, so please write into us at, telluswhereyourefrom@gmail.com. And again, that your is y o u r e, we’ll be looking forward to hearing from you.
Jesse Lin 23:13
So we want to introduce some Taiwanese culture and some fun things that we really enjoyed as kids that were exported out of Taiwan, in a sense. So I think for me, I definitely had a huge mini gay crush on this girl group called S.H.E. I thought their music was so great. And it’s so funny because they’re like this very local Taiwanese group. They’re like, super prolific. I think they’re still they were still making music as of like, a few years ago. So they’re still together and going strong.
Angela Lin 23:50
They’re like the Pussycat Dolls of Taiwan? Because they’re back, the Pussycat Dolls are back.
Jesse Lin 23:56
Yeah, well, I will say yes. Except I don’t think Any of the groups are so sexualized. Yes, that’s true. It’s not a concern. Yeah, for sure. And then also cartoons great cartoons, one of my favorites and I’m sure one of your favorites too was shouting down. For those of you who don’t know what that is, it’s I think it’s dora Doraemon,
Angela Lin 24:18
Doraemon
Jesse Lin 24:19
Doraemon.
Angela Lin 24:21
He’s Japanese, though. That’s an import.
Jesse Lin 24:24
But I feel like that’s part of my, I watched that. I mean, I watched it exclusively while I was in Taiwan.
Angela Lin 24:31
And it was in Mandarin. It counts. Yeah, fine.
Jesse Lin 24:34
Yeah. What about you? You went through a huge asian embrace phase
Angela Lin 24:40
Yeah. We already talked about this. So like my, my loves of my life for Meteor Garden, the series which actually Netflix did a remake of it, which I tbh couldn’t get into. I was like, really excited when I saw it pop up on my Netflix and I was like, This is terrible. I’m not But I was a really hit series back when I was in middle school. And from that series spun off the boy band F4 my favorite guy from that band was this guy whose name was Vaness so like Vanessa without the A. he’s an ABC American Born Chinese y’all and obviously I liked him because outside of finding him attractive I was like I feel you because you’re also an ABC. there was all this behind the scenes stuff where he’s like, apparently couldn’t read any of the scripts because it’s
Jesse Lin 25:40
like, oh my god
Angela Lin 25:41
like ours wouldn’t be good enough right to like read scripts, like people had to like, you know, read it to him, he had to memorize and then he’d just like say things. there were all these like, you know outtakes that they would play at the end of every episode and he would say like, random shit. That didn’t make sense because Chinese is like, not as well. Maybe this is first length. But like he’s not saying it all the time and yeah, right. So I was like, uh, I think there’s a series called like Firefly that I was also obsessed with. I think the theme song from that show was sung by this guy that I also then was obsessed with as a singer called the engineer, JJ Lin. For anyone who knows who he is, but basically if I go back to Taiwan, and you put on one of his hit songs, I think even though I haven’t heard it in 15 years Yeah, yeah, this my life
Jesse Lin 26:38
yeah. Oh, man, when you said that that just from an either you’re gonna say Jay Chow. Everyone was so were you not into him? I was so into
Angela Lin 26:46
how are you into him? I feel like was too old for me. Like my brother liked him because he was closer to me stage but I was like, that guy’s old when I was my brother was…
Jesse Lin 26:57
He’s hot. because he’s got really nice abs.
Jesse Lin 27:01
Yeah Wow. Such a throwback. I love it. Okay guys, well if you really enjoyed this episode as we enjoyed making it please like follow subscribe send us dm send us sweet messages send us sweet feedback. And as always check out next week’s episode which will be coming next week,
Angela Lin 27:19
as we like to always close
All 27:23
Zai jian, bitches!