The Risky Business of Trying New Things

[00:00:00] Jesse Lin: I’m Jesse Lin

[00:00:01] Angela Lin: And I’m Angela Lin. And welcome back to another episode of But Where Are You Really From. Today we’re talking about taking risks. And why it’s so hard to do new things. Even the ones that we are interested in trying. So like say a friend says a fun, new activity that they’ve done, but it sounds kind of scary to you and then you just don’t do it even though you’re like, that could be fun.

Full Transcript (Note: Transcribed via AI, may contain errors)

[00:00:28] Angela Lin: Um, why is it, do we think that that is so difficult for us to do.

[00:00:34] Jesse Lin: Well, first things first, I think that everyone has a different risk tolerance. I think you listeners have probably heard us discuss this in the past and probably heard me say many times, like I’m very low risk person. So it’s not that I don’t like trying new things, but I’m pretty averse to new things where there’s some kind of like risk involved.

[00:00:55] Jesse Lin: Um, so that’s the first thing is I think that everyone just has like different tolerances for trying new things. But the, the second thing that I want to say is that it’s hard to try a new thing. Like, I feel like, I feel like in the pandemic, so many people were doing so many new things that it felt like it was really easy to try a new thing.

[00:01:15] Jesse Lin: And sometimes it is, but like some of the things were really hard. Like people were baking like sourdough breads. I’m like, where did you get the fucking yeast from? Like, how did you feel like it was like a lot of stuff. So I think that actually just trying out new things is quite complicated in and of itself.

[00:01:33] Jesse Lin: Like some of the things that you want to try are actually more difficult than, than you envisioned them to be. And then, you know, the third thing is just that like, laziness probably like for me, like, it’s definitely, there’s a factor where I’m like, I’m very comfortable with my daily routine and I know what I’m doing.

[00:01:52] Jesse Lin: And even though it may not be the most exciting or new or whatever it, uh, is comfortable and comforting to me versus like a new thing is like, Ooh, this is like a little bit uncomfortable. It may be dangerous depending on what you decide to do. Like if you wanted to like, learn how to blow glass or something or a weld, for example.

[00:02:14] Jesse Lin: Um, but yeah, I think those are, at least for me, those are probably like the top three reasons or thoughts that I have about it. What about you?

[00:02:21] Angela Lin: Um, for me, I agree with a lot of what you said. I think laziness is certainly part of it. If it’s like a complicated thing, like you said, like sometimes it’s like, I don’t know.

[00:02:35] Angela Lin: It wasn’t a pandemic thing. It was just like a couple of years ago it started getting like millennial popular to get into like crocheting and like that kind of stuff. And I was like, that seems hard. I don’t want to like buy all those things. And like, after read these books how to like learn the patterns and stuff.

[00:02:53] Angela Lin: So I think there is, um, a level of like, that sounds marginally interesting for me but depends on if it’s like interesting enough to get me to bother learning new skills. Um, that’s definitely part of it. I think the other part is, as you get older, so like you said, everyone has a different risk profile to begin with, but I do think the general trend is like, if, once you get older, you also start getting more and more risk averse.

[00:03:23] Angela Lin: So like when you’re younger, you definitely are like whatevs. Like I’m going to just try it out and like scrape your knee and, you know, get back up. But as you get older, you’re like, Hmm, I’m not sure it’s worth it. So I definitely, for myself have noticed, like, it’s harder for me to want to try new things as I’ve gotten older.

[00:03:44] Angela Lin: But luckily for me, I have another counter push wishes. Ramon was constantly pushing me to try new things. So it’s kind of. Um, yeah, it’s counteracting my trend towards like, let me just stay in my little comfort circle.

[00:04:03] Jesse Lin: I think that’s great. And maybe like you exposed another point about why people don’t try new things is that it’s very rare that not very rare, but like there aren’t that many people.

[00:04:12] Jesse Lin: That you’ll know that are constantly trying new things. And those are usually the people where you would try new things with, because it’s like, oh my God, we’re like doing a thing together or taking risks together. Like, it feels a little safer to do it with a friend or somebody, you know? And there are not that many people trying new things. But on the other hand, I want to like, maybe walk that back and say like, I think my friends do do interesting things that I don’t do, and I could potentially also do those things if I was interested enough to just be like, hey, take me to your pottery class or take me to your volunteering thing or what, what have you, so

[00:04:48] Angela Lin: I think that is one of the keys though, the interest level, because like, it could be something you, you think is interesting from like a talking point standpoint or like good for them, but it’s like super interesting for them, like a passion point for them.

[00:05:04] Angela Lin: But when you try to think of like, would I be as interested in this if the answer’s no, you’re not going to bother with taking up the extra steps that it would take to like, learn that thing or like commit to practicing that thing. And that was honestly, even when I was younger, that was something that I learned pretty early, which is like, I have like light interest in many things, but not enough.

[00:05:31] Angela Lin: I think you’re talking about this, but like not, you know, um, bother frankly, to like want to put in a ton of hours to practice a thing, to get like really good at it. Like, I always feel really bad for my mom because I had a, you know, when I was learning to get into like bands and music and, uh, like thinking about A&R and stuff, I was like, oh, I’m going to learn guitar.

[00:05:53] Angela Lin: I don’t know. I don’t know if you remember, but I tried to learn guitar for a while.

[00:05:57] Jesse Lin: It was short-lived ?

[00:05:59] Angela Lin: It was yeah. Kind of, I mean, it was basically like. I think I went to lessons for at least a year, but it was once a week. And like, I was so lazy about it. Like the guitar teacher would be like, oh, practice this song all week.

[00:06:17] Angela Lin: And like, we’ll come back and like, play it for me. And then I’ll assign you another song and I was so lazy. It was like, I couldn’t, I could not get myself to do it. And I had like, I do it like the hour or two before class. I’d like procrastinate, practicing, and then he’d show up and be like, you obviously haven’t been practicing.

[00:06:39] Jesse Lin: Musical instruments and stuff is definitely like one of those things you really want to have to do.

[00:06:45] Jesse Lin: And I remember this very clearly because like with piano, I did want to do it because there were, there were moments in time and I don’t mean like once every month or so, but like a few times every week where I was like, I really want to play piano. And so I was like, although I didn’t practice as much as I should have, I was practicing because if you don’t practice, you can’t play it, then it’s not fun. But with violin, I never took lessons. So I was just kind of like bullshitting my way around, based off of what I knew from what I knew about music from piano and like the violins only for fun. Oh my God. Five strings, five strings.

[00:07:25] Jesse Lin: It was not as complicated. Um, but eventually it caught up to me because like, it just didn’t practice violin at all. Cause I didn’t really care about it and I wasn’t good at it. So then it was like, yeah.

[00:07:37] Angela Lin: Okay, well, clearly we know what happens when we’re not truly that interested enough to take those risks and commit to those new things.

[00:07:47] Angela Lin: Let’s switch it up and go into something that we have recently tried and decided was worth our attention and effort. Jesse?

[00:07:56] Jesse Lin: Okay. Yeah, I will start. Um, I just quit my job. I’m really excited. It’s like a little bit of, okay. It’s like a little bit of both worlds because I actually really, um, when I started this job, I really enjoyed it and I really enjoyed the people who work in my function.

[00:08:16] Jesse Lin: And generally, like, I think the company is like a genuinely good place to work, but I’ve gotten to a point where I just don’t feel inspired is maybe the wrong word, because it’s like, who , there are a few people inspired by work, but I just don’t feel any like spark for the work that I do anymore.

[00:08:33] Jesse Lin: And, um, there are also some frustrations with just, um, managing some inter-team things. So it’s like, I think it’s time for me to go, but it’s such a risky endeavor right now because I, in my head I’m like, I’m like, there’s a million things that could go wrong. Like it’s going to be like fully remote so you’ll never have the chance to really like establish yourself with people in person.

[00:08:55] Jesse Lin: So you kind of really have to. Lean in even more than you do in a, in a regular office environment. And I was like, this is work that maybe I don’t really have a lot of experience in. And the position is like a step back in terms of moving from like manager to back to IC. But then I was like looking at the whole thing and, um, what really.

[00:09:17] Jesse Lin: I think convinced me was actually one of the interviews that I did with my soon to be manager, which is like a technical interview. And it was a lot of fun because he gave me basically like a problem solving question and I was like, work. Like my brain was like, and I was like, okay, this is it. Because this is the kind of like excitement that I had for my role at this last company originally, like really, really, um, Using all of my bullshit knowledge to come up with something real and amazingly it worked.

[00:09:53] Jesse Lin: So like, yeah, no, it was, it was a lot of fun. So I’m glad I’m taking this leap of faith to join a new company and new role during cOVID and I’m sure you’ll hear from me again in a few episodes, if it doesn’t work out.

[00:10:10] Angela Lin: Uh, well, I’m sure we won’t hear from you then, because I’m sure it will work out.

[00:10:16] Angela Lin: Congratulations

[00:10:17] Jesse Lin: Thank you. Are you doing any big new, you have many big new things!

[00:10:20] Angela Lin: Oh, you know, just, I quit my job to do this podcast full time NBD. Yeah, we, uh, we alluded to that last. Or the first episode back about me quitting my job. I don’t think I had plugged that my plan essentially is to like work on this thing full-time. I feel like this is definitely a huge risk for me in a lot of ways. I mean, it’s not just changing jobs. It’s like getting out of corporate America and like just focusing on a self-driven thing. Um, and it’s definitely very hard for my parents to understand like straight up every few weeks. Including today, my dad will text or call me and be like, do you have money?

[00:11:08] Angela Lin: Like, are you sure you’re not poor? He was like, genuinely concerned.

[00:11:13] Jesse Lin: Oh my god I would be like excuse me. Do you know what my husband does for a living? Like…

[00:11:20] Angela Lin: I mean, yeah, it’s kind of that part. It’s hard for them to wrap their heads around, I think because I’ve never, I mean, Of the two siblings, I’m the first one to get married. And so, and then even prior to getting married, like they hadn’t been used to either a child having like a really long-term significant other that’s like a true partner

[00:11:47] Jesse Lin: But this is what your dad wanted for you, a rich honeybuns. This is like his fantasy fulfilled.

[00:11:56] Angela Lin: No, I think his fantasy fulfilled is someone rich from a rich background and he can understand. Like old money inherited from an empire, but this is like crypto money. He doesn’t understand, he thinks it’s fake money. So, you know, there’s that, um,

[00:12:15] Jesse Lin: It’s a big leap. Yeah. I don’t know if you guys know this or not, but Angela is like the pants, the shirts, the socks, the shoes, like the makeup of this whole thing.

[00:12:26] Jesse Lin: And I’m just. The voice that sometimes the voice – I’m the talent.

[00:12:31] Angela Lin: You’re the talent. Exactly. I’m I’m everything but talent. Second secondary.

[00:12:39] Jesse Lin: That’s not true. you’re half of it. You’re half of the talent you bring, bring all the hard skills and the talent. But yes, very big risk. But it’s funny because we were just saying, as you get older, we take less risks, but it seems like both of us are like, we’re ready.

[00:12:54] Angela Lin: Yeah. Well, I think we’re also past the, um, we had, we respectively had our midlife crises, um, a few years ago. Right. And I think we’re like, well past that hump to maybe we’re at the point where we’re ready, more ready to take new risks, to like, you know, open up that next chapter to something else.

[00:13:15] Jesse Lin: Yeah. I don’t know.

[00:13:18] Jesse Lin: I don’t think I had the crisis that you meant. I think I am currently experiencing a slowly rolling crisis, like a small tsunami that has yet to hit anything.

[00:13:33] Angela Lin: Those are dangerous.

[00:13:35] Jesse Lin: Well, we’ll pray that it’s a hit anything. Um, yeah. Okay. So we’re talking about, um, existential crisis.

[00:13:42] Jesse Lin: So like life things.

[00:13:44] Angela Lin: Yeah. That’s the other kind of, part of this is that because I no longer work for a company. We’re going to be a remote for the next year. Um, and we’re going to be living in Europe for some time. And then Asia, for most of 2022. And for this podcast, that also means that I like one of the things I’m interested in doing is like, meeting more people on the ground, in the different countries that we’re going to be in and like interviewing them about their experiences.

[00:14:15] Angela Lin: Cause obviously everyones upbringings and surroundings create like a very different shaping of your life. So I’m, I’m looking forward to meeting those folks, hearing those stories and bringing them to this pod as well.

[00:14:31] Jesse Lin: That sounds really exciting.

[00:14:33] Angela Lin: Yeah. Yeah. Well, hopefully you’ll be part of it. It kind of depends on time zones. If it’s like 2:00 AM for you.

[00:14:40] Jesse Lin: I’m sure we’ll make it work. You can always just splice in B roll of me being yes.

[00:14:46] Angela Lin: Oh, that would be really funny. I like that. I think I’ll just have you in the corner, like not even a third, I’ll just have you like, like an emoji, that pops up,

[00:14:57] Jesse Lin: Or like a bad lip reading situation where I could just be like, oh my God I could -no, that would be rude. I was going to say, I could do a bad sign language, but that, that would be rude.

[00:15:05] Angela Lin: No, I don’t think so. Yeah. No other life experiments. I mean, I don’t want to get too much into it because we want to do a whole episode about this, but obviously a big part of our respective experimentations recently have been substance related.

[00:15:24] Jesse Lin: Yes, I agree. Um, I also say, I would say like, for me, this has been really also connected to a regression in age, uh, because I’ve been partying a lot more and I have this desire to go out and like meet people and go dancing and stuff like that, which is really, really different from what like week Jesse wants to do, like week Jesse work week Jesse wants to eat pizza. Workweek Jesse wants to watch TV. Work week Jesse wants to sleep. That’s all he wants. Oh, that’s those are the three things that he wants. And like this new, this new me party me is like on the weekend, emerges and is like, let’s go out, let’s go drinking. Let’s do crazy stuff. Like, so it’s a little bit of a, a little bit strange because they’re quite different.

[00:16:16] Jesse Lin: And then, um, what usually happens on Fridays is they get into a really big fight on what they want to do because one person just wants to go to sleep and the other person wants to turn up. So, yeah, it’s been interesting.

[00:16:28] Angela Lin: Well, I think what you described has like two things I want to dig into one is like, You kind of just sound like a bear that’s hibernating during the week to like come out hard on the weekends.

[00:16:42] Angela Lin: So that’s one and the other is I actually disagree with you that you didn’t have a quarter-life crisis. Cause I think your quarter life crisis came when you broke up with your last boyfriend, because you essentially had to become a completely different human, because the reason you said that you regressed quote, unquote regressed in age is because if we haven’t already talked about this before, when you’re in that other long-term relationship, you essentially like jumped forward into like old married couple land. Many many years, and you didn’t do the partying and like the crazy young stuff while you were actually in your early and mid twenties.

[00:17:26] Angela Lin: So you essentially are like reclaiming those years now.

[00:17:31] Jesse Lin: Yes. Yeah. Um, yeah, no, I need to you’re right. I need to correct that statement. I didn’t have it at the same time that you did. You said you had yours, like when you were like 25, 26, mine didn’t happen until like two two years ago. Yeah. Two years ago.

[00:17:49] Jesse Lin: And yeah, it was very much like lesbian bed death into reclaiming my time. And that’s, I’m at reclaiming my time currently, still.

[00:17:58] Angela Lin: Do you think, because you said both of our life crises happen at different moments, but they happened, you know, I would still say that it’s in the quarter life range.

[00:18:10] Angela Lin: Right. Um, but both of ours happened after significant things happening. So yours was like post a significant breakup and mine was post like post MBA after like getting into my first post MBA job and kind of realizing like, is this it? Is this what I worked so hard for? Like, I’m not sure I feel fulfilled, you know?

[00:18:33] Angela Lin: Like, do you think that people are only willing to make big pivots in life when something big like that, like that shakes up your life?

[00:18:47] Jesse Lin: Ooh, that’s a good question. Look at you. Barbara Walters. Or more accurate, Connie Chung. Um, are people willing to take bigger risks after bigger events in their life? I think it really depends on what kind of event it is. Like I feel like if you are doing something really happy, really fulfilling, like you’re taking a huge risk to do something that you’re gonna be really psyched about, you may not take another big risk after that, or if something like really big and nice happened to you, I’m not sure you would take another risk after that. Because for me, I’m thinking about it, like, okay, if this really great thing happened to me, I’m going to be pretty risk averse afterwards because I want to hold on to this, this, um, this great thing that just happened to me.

[00:19:38] Jesse Lin: But I would say the opposite is true and maybe that’s kind of. What happened to us? It’s not that anything bad happened or break up is not great. Um, and neither is, uh, is this it moment in the mid twenties, like, they’re not great, but it’s not like you got hit by a bus and survived or something like that, you know what I mean?

[00:19:57] Jesse Lin: Like, so it’s like a situation where it forces you to rethink about your priorities in life and whether or not what you, where you are currently makes you happy. And sometimes I feel like when you come to that realization, you’re like, oh my God, like this isn’t for me or this isn’t happy for me. You’re more willing to take a bigger risk to try and get out of that situation because you’re like, holy shit.

[00:20:22] Jesse Lin: Like, I didn’t realize it, but I just spent like the last X, years of my life doing this. And it was like terrible. And I don’t like it. And like, what the fuck? And so you’re like, all right, now I’m going to do this like big leap of faith to try and break myself out of that, or at least try something that’s like outside of the comfort area that I’ve been in.

[00:20:41] Jesse Lin: And so I would agree with you when, it’s the situation where you are having like a point of reflection about your life and you realize that you are not satisfied with where you are or where you have been.

[00:20:56] Angela Lin: Yeah, because I’m thinking back on, like every time I started a new job or like decided to move or like do something big.

[00:21:04] Angela Lin: And I do think it always came after some sort of reflection of like, oh, I’m dissatisfied, like taking that time to re like really let that sink in. But I’m just posing discussion points, which is essentially like, I think you and I feel similar in that sense. Similarly in that like something happens that makes you reassess.

[00:21:25] Angela Lin: But I also know people who like have been discontented for some time and they just won’t make any moves. Like, and it kinda actually like bothers me quite a bit. When I meet someone that’s like constantly bitching about their current situation, but doing nothing to change it. Do you know people like that? And then if so, like what do you think is kind of like the difference that why wouldn’t they, if they are, it’s like staring straight in the face at them of like, you’re unhappy why wouldn’t they do something about it?

[00:22:03] Jesse Lin: Okay. I’m probably gonna get this completely wrong. So anyone who’s a psych major can like read – call in that’s right, right. Write us a DM, email us. But I feel like one of the fundamental things that people are averse to is change. And most people, I would say like, if you’re a really contented person, I’m not sure why you would go looking for change because the circumstances and things in your life make you content.

[00:22:31] Jesse Lin: So you like don’t need to search for anything else. Um, I would say like people who are, what’s the difference between people who are discontent and don’t do anything and people who are, um, discontent and they do something, I just feel like it’s just that they haven’t reached the point where they’re going to tip into action or that’s like the first thing, because I also, like, I think when we were talking about this, like there is like an inflection point where you’re like, this is enough is enough.

[00:23:00] Jesse Lin: Like I’ve been unhappy. Like I need to make a change and I’m going to do it. Um, so they haven’t reached that point yet. Like they know they’re unhappy, but they haven’t gone to the place where they’re like, I feel so much about this and I’m clear on what I need to do next that I’m going to go do something about it. The other thing is just that.

[00:23:20] Jesse Lin: Yeah. Like I was saying, like, people don’t like to do, they don’t like to change things that are big in their lives. So like a career, a job is a very big thing in everyone’s life. How you not die and eat and stuff like that. So like, even though people may be unhappy, they might not want to change it because it’s familiar.

[00:23:41] Jesse Lin: Like, you know, they understand, they know what the pond is. They know how big it is. They know how to swim in it. Um, you know, it gives them fundamentally what they need. Right. They may, they may have insurance, they have a salary, they may have other benefits. Um, it’s a lot of effort actually to change jobs. It’s like not easy.

[00:24:03] Jesse Lin: So I think like it’s like people who haven’t reached the point and it’s people who are like discontent, but they don’t want to put in the effort to change that. Like they’re happy to be with that discontent. And they think they will have, they will be more discontent by trying to get their way out of it, if that makes sense.

[00:24:20] Jesse Lin: So that’s what I think, at least for me, because I do, I, there are individuals like that where I’m like, oh my God, You’ve worked in this position for how long? Were you worked at this company for how long? Like, are you sure you want to be here? Like, I don’t know. Um, so I, I think it’s kind of like that, for me.

[00:24:38] Angela Lin: My mind went into a very dark place while you were talking.

[00:24:42] Angela Lin: And I was like, this is like an abusive relationship. And like people who can’t, who find it difficult to leave an abusive relationship, it’s like, it’s obviously bad for you, but it’s really difficult to leave that kind of situation.

[00:24:56] Jesse Lin: Yeah. I mean, I it’s really, I think it’s really tough, especially, you know, like we’re getting older, right?

[00:25:01] Jesse Lin: So we have friends who have families are currently planning for you’re planning for a family now. And I think if you think about security for your family, it can be really hard to leave, right? Like if you’re working at, let’s say a big tech company where the benefits are really cushy, you have insurance covered for everyone in your family.

[00:25:20] Jesse Lin: You might have all these like side benefits for like parental care nanny, baby, whatever. It can be really hard to leave, even if you don’t particularly like the job, because it’s like, I have to think about not just what I want currently, but like, what are all these things that are like covering my family and like long-term data, yada yada, yada.

[00:25:38] Jesse Lin: So I think that can like really contribute to a situation where a person has discontent, but they’re not going to move out of where they are because there’s a lot of risk involved. Involved In doing so that doesn’t just implicate themselves.

[00:25:53] Angela Lin: Yeah, actually that makes me look at things in a different lens, which is not just the risk tolerance or not.

[00:26:01] Angela Lin: It’s that I think a big reason that people accept discontentment for themselves is that their priorities have changed in life, which is like, what is the most important thing to me right now? Maybe it’s not my job. Maybe it is my family, um, and their wellbeing and being able to provide for them. I mean, cause I’m, I’m like thinking back on the people where I have been like, why don’t you just change your job?

[00:26:23] Angela Lin: And when I think about their lives, I’m like, yeah, it’s very obvious that they have like another big priority in their life that is like more important to them than their career. So they will continue to just be like, I don’t love it. I’m not that happy with it, but I’m not going to like, do anything about it because I’m spending my energy elsewhere and like making sure that that part is fulfilled, which is cool too.

[00:26:45] Jesse Lin: It’s it’s hard to say sometimes like just kind of face value when you look at people that you may or may not be super familiar with and like their choices. So I’m just kind of like, I know where I’m going. I know where I’m at and that’s all that really matters.

[00:26:59] Angela Lin: Okay. So let’s also speculate on a why else people might not make these big life decisions.

[00:27:06] Angela Lin: And I think one of the things we’ve talked about is that these are such big moments or big decisions in life. Things like what career you’re going to have, like. Is going to be your partner in life and like these big choices, but there’s no north star or like guidebook, or it’s not like our parents really like taught us a certain direction to go or anywhere else really. I think that the US and the American mentality of like, it’s your freedom, like freedom of choice. Like you it’s your life. You’re so independent. Like figure it out. It is hard, especially when a lot of those things you have to figure out when you’re really young, like working back on the career, right.

[00:27:51] Angela Lin: It’s like, before you even know what career you want. You have to decide what school you’re going to go to and what career, like, sorry, what major you’re going to see in that school. And you decide that shit when you’re like 15 or 16, right. Because that’s when your like high school counselors kind of up your ass about like, you got to decide and you work it all back from there.

[00:28:11] Angela Lin: It’s like, what did I know then? And no one’s telling me any which way it’s just like, Hmm.

[00:28:17] Jesse Lin: Yeah. And I don’t feel like I don’t feel like the current, I mean, like we went to pretty good schools. Yeah. Like, and, but one of the things is lacking I feel like, is like, it doesn’t, nobody really explains to you, like, what’s the impact of making the selection that you’re making currently.

[00:28:34] Jesse Lin: And like, what are your options per se? Like what you can do life-wise, it’s kind of just like, okay, go to college and then you’ll figure it out in college. And I’m like, well, I didn’t really, like, maybe I kind of did, but like, it’s not like I suddenly met someone like a career life fairy at college to like sort it all out for me.

[00:28:56] Jesse Lin: So yeah. I have to agree with you there. And I just think like, it’s, it’s what you said. Like there are so many big decisions and important things that people are expecting teenagers to figure out that it’s like, mind-boggling like, for example, filling out the FAFSA, like what the fuck man. And I recently I was on Facebook recently.

[00:29:19] Jesse Lin: And I think, um, friends of AOC, somebody, one of the electeds was like, oh, we’re hosting a zoom with people from the DOE explaining like common problems with the FAFSA and like how you can avoid them. And I was reading and I was like, I was looking at it, and I was like, why do you have a zoom on this?

[00:29:36] Jesse Lin: Just make it easier to fill out like what the F like, so I’m like, this is it’s crazy like that, that you have to do all of these big life things. They’re super complicated. Nobody really explains to you the implications of all of these things. And it’s kinda just like, given that some by D will tell you, but like, as we’ve discussed in the past, like our parents aren’t gonna know that they didn’t grow up here.

[00:30:00] Jesse Lin: They didn’t go through that process. And even for people whose parents did grow up here, like the process to get into a college now, it’s so convoluted. They’re probably like, I don’t know what this fuck. This is like, so it’s like, To your point, like freedom, like you get the choice to try to figure out what’s happening, but it’s so complicated like who, who among us actually figured out all of it. Like I know some people did, but I would say the large majority of people didn’t and so I think that’s probably why, like it’s complicated.

[00:30:32] Angela Lin: Yeah. And for those that are not US-based, or didn’t have to go through this process, the FAFSA is essentially is like very complicated form application form or something that you have to fill out before you go to college that essentially determines how much federal aid you get.

[00:30:50] Angela Lin: Um, like if, how much you qualify based on your parents, like income levels and like other factors for determining how much you qualify in loans versus grants. Um, and yeah, it’s, it’s an incredibly important thing to fill out because that determines how much out of pocket you have to pay for college, which can be hundreds of thousands of dollars now with today’s price tag on education.

[00:31:15] Angela Lin: But there is no easy way to figure out how to fill that shit out. It’s dumb. It’s very dumb.

[00:31:22] Jesse Lin: For all of our foreign listeners. That’s right. Hundreds of thousands of dollars for your undergraduate education, depending on..

[00:31:31] Angela Lin: And the one where you have the choice to choose what it was if you came out with a poetry major and find no jobs, cause you realize that’s not what you really wanted to do forever, you’re a little screwed.

[00:31:45] Jesse Lin: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I feel like it’s, it’s hard for people to take risks because the environment of the US at least for me, is not conducive to making it easy to take risks. So like, even if you think about like, uh, American dream life path, like college, so we just talked about college, it’s a clusterfuck, like to try to figure out. Okay like after college, what might you, what might you encounter? Uh, you might get married or you might buy a property. Like those are one of the things, right? How was the marriage process complicated?

[00:32:19] Angela Lin: Uh, more complicated than I than I thought, honestly. Yes.

[00:32:24] Jesse Lin: Yeah. So, okay. A complicated, complicated buying a property. So complicated, complicated, complicated, like, and so it’s like, these are the things that everyone is like, oh my God, that’s that’s for me, it’s my life.

[00:32:38] Jesse Lin: Everyone’s going for these things. But all of these things are so hard to do. You would imagine that like, after so much time and so many people yearning after these things, it would be easier to do these things, but in fact it’s much harder. So it’s just like, yeah, of course he wouldn’t take a risk because it’s like, I barely understand what exactly is happening in this complex financial transaction, which will fund where I live.

[00:33:05] Angela Lin: Another really big, important one is personal finance, which we’ve talked about in the past as well, because I think how you invest your money is also a big way that can factor into like how strapped you are in your life and like what kind of job you need to have or whatnot, because if you know, how to invest your money and it does well for you. You are just like, you have more freedom to do other things, but no, one’s out here teaching personal finance to 18 year olds or whatever. So, and I think a challenge with like all these things, like we’re also in the information age where like all this information exists somewhere, but it is like, it’s really hard to find like the right, like the, you know, Best source of information for each of these things to know who to trust.

[00:33:58] Angela Lin: I think that there’s like a pro con, right? With the idea of like being able to Google and YouTube, anything is that you can’t necessarily know, which is like the best source of information. You can find everyone’s opinion and like every little thing, but is it the best thing who knows?

[00:34:15] Jesse Lin: Yeah. And again, it’s just not easy.

[00:34:19] Jesse Lin: Like it’s a little complicated to understand how to properly invest. So like, I, again, like with risk taking, I think these are all the reasons, um, that you don’t, that people in general don’t take as much risk. Like I’m thinking about it. Like, if I knew that I would always have a place to live, that I would always have health insurance, I think I would take more risks with the things that I was doing in my life.

[00:34:43] Jesse Lin: Like I would probably change jobs more. I might do some other things because I’m not scared that I’m going to be like homeless or not be able to see the doctor because of it. Um, but it’s, yeah, it’s just, I think it’s like all of these foundational things are like difficult to understand. And so it can cause people not to take as many risks, I feel like.

[00:35:08] Angela Lin: I see where you’re coming from because a lot of our kind of like risk averse, um, foundation comes from worrying about like foundational things like housing and just security. Yeah. But I think there’s also the other aspect, which like we’ve talked about with like Western versus Eastern and whatever, which is like American dream versus more kind of socialist things.

[00:35:33] Angela Lin: And I would argue the countries where you are guaranteed housing and health insurance don’t have that many risk-takers because they’re a little bit more content. So back to your original thing of like, don’t rock the boat when you’re content. There’s not a lot of risk-taking and like innovation from more socialists, leaning societies and America, where it is really uncertain, but it also means there’s a lot of like untapped opportunity because you don’t necessarily know where the opportunity is.

[00:36:06] Angela Lin: You have a lot of hustlers that are like out there trying to, trying to make it, and they do. You know, the ones who figure it out can make something of it.

[00:36:17] Jesse Lin: I don’t know though, that seems so harsh. Like it’s either like, it’s either like you have some safety, but you’re kind of maybe won’t do anything special or you might die unless you figure it out.

[00:36:31] Angela Lin: I mean, I don’t think you’re gonna die. I think that’s a pretty extreme.

[00:36:35] Jesse Lin: Okay. You might suffer some serious financial drawbacks, which could impact your access to housing and healthcare and all that jazz.

[00:36:45] Angela Lin: Life’s hard, man. I think the conclusion is life’s hard

[00:36:49] Jesse Lin: Why can’t we have both?

[00:36:51] Angela Lin: So knowing that all this shit is really hard to figure out what do you think you would have wished for, to have had when you were younger and kind of like not knowing a lot about these big things, like what would have helped you make those life choices better?

[00:37:08] Jesse Lin: Um, I, okay. So it’s really hard for me to say because I’m the kind of person that learns the best by doing something.

[00:37:15] Jesse Lin: And so like when I don’t do it, it’s naturally quite easy for me to forget like how to do it or why it’s important. So I think it can be a little bit difficult, but I just think like having more. Um, real representations of the impacts of the choices people make to go to, you know, to do certain like life actions and like explaining that clearly to you at key stages of your life would be super helpful.

[00:37:45] Jesse Lin: And I just think that we didn’t really have that. And it wasn’t quite easy to find. It’s like the thing, the way you’re saying about the internet, like the resources are there probably, but like you have to like do a little bit of more work to actually find the resource, which will help you do the original thing that you wanted to do to begin with, which is like pretty convoluted.

[00:38:07] Jesse Lin: So I think just like having more examples of, um, like what does happen if you go to uh, NYU for poetry scholarship, like what are the outcomes in a person? I think that cause you can, you can see the outcomes like on paper sometimes cause they list those things. But yeah, as an a person, I think it will be really helpful.

[00:38:29] Jesse Lin: And also not just those like really exceptional people, because usually like they might have that, but it’s like the person who came out and became the poet Laureate and I’m like, well, there’s one point laureate bitch. Like we can’t all be that.

[00:38:41] Angela Lin: Well, let me talk to all the other ones in their class.

[00:38:44] Jesse Lin: Yeah. Like they need more real examples of like people coming out and like what’s the average situation look like.

[00:38:52] Jesse Lin: Um, and also just to make things generally easier for everyone to understand, like Jesus Christ, like I went to college, I’m not dumb, but some of the things like you need to know, or like read to finance, certain things are so complicated that I’m like, of course people are iced out of certain things like if I can’t even understand it, how could someone who never went, who never graduated from high school, who never did all of this educational stuff possibly obtain that.

[00:39:20] Jesse Lin: It just is ridiculous. So. Examples easy.

[00:39:25] Angela Lin: Yes. Yes, absolutely. Um, for me, I also think, I think just better utilizing like the kind of courses that we had in high school. Um, what have been really helpful because thinking back I’m like, wow, who when’s the last time anyone restructured curriculum for high school?

[00:39:44] Angela Lin: Because if you think about it, things like home ec and like, um, what the fuck is that other one that, where you just like build things like, um, the workshop wood shop, wood shop and home-ec, can we talk about, they must’ve invented that back in like 1920, right? They’re like, oh, home ec is for women so that they can learn to be good wives so that they can learn how to sew and to cook because that’s all I did in home-ec and then wood shop is for boys

[00:40:09] Jesse Lin: You’re high school had that?

[00:40:11] Angela Lin: Yeah. Yeah. And an wood shop. I did both. Um, I don’t know. I, I was able to do both. And wood shop is for men because men are men only and do things like build things from raw wood and like from, you know, with their own hands. But like how useful is that shit right now? Versus like making everyone take a personal finance course.

[00:40:32] Angela Lin: So that they understand what money is and like even having a simulator of like, here’s fake money that like you can invest in a portfolio or like, you know, just put into a bank account or like do some shit, right that like simulates real life before you are in real life. Um, I think would have been incredibly useful.

[00:40:53] Angela Lin: And then I also think like in college is when internships were more of a thing. Right. But I think they should start that kind of stuff in high school, or like, Even if it’s shadows, shadowing type stuff, like, Hey, if you’re like marginally interested in becoming something like a businessman or whatever, look, what does that mean?

[00:41:13] Angela Lin: Like, I’m sure they can hook it up with like, someone’s parents, like a work in that company and you get to just like shadow for the day. You let like five high school kids, like shadow for the day, that kind of stuff. So that they get more exposure to like real life shit before they have to make it out for themselves.

[00:41:32] Angela Lin: Um, I think it’s just like your similar point of like, you know, more hands on and like just more experience. I think kids need to be more exposed to like the options in life and what it takes to live in a real life before they’re just like thrown out to the wind in college.

[00:41:50] Jesse Lin: So I will say I did attend like, okay so there was like an internship thing program that I did in high school and it was through some kind of like retraining program. Like it was for older people to retrain them for different industries. But if you were in high school, you could do it for free. And, um, but it wasn’t easy to like find it.

[00:42:11] Jesse Lin: Like I had to go seek it out because I was like, oh fuck. Like, I don’t know what I want to do with my life. And, um, I have to do these extracurriculars for college, blah, blah. Um, and it also, like there was, there was just a lot of effort involved, like w like you had to, I had to drive, like, I think all the way to somewhere far away, it was like not super close.

[00:42:31] Jesse Lin: And, um, yeah, so it was like not easy to access. Well, on that note, shall we transition to the Fortune Cookie? Yes. We’ll end on a sweet treat to show our commitment to this new groove of trying new things. We want to talk about something new that we’re going to try immediately. Um, so Angela, what’s something, are you going to try immediately?

[00:43:02] Angela Lin: In nine days? I am doing…

[00:43:06] Jesse Lin: …7 days

[00:43:07] Angela Lin: Oh my God, am I going to die what’s happening? Um, no. In 9 days I will be heading towards a silent meditation retreat that lasts for 10 days where I cannot bring anything, including a journal. I will give up my phone and other means of outside communication. And just meditate in silence for 10 days.

[00:43:37] Angela Lin: And we have an episode plan where we will debrief on what that was like, but that is my big new thing that I’ve never done that is scary to me that I’m doing imminently.

[00:43:50] Jesse Lin: Honestly, honestly, when you told me silent meditation at first, I was like, oh yeah, that’s cool. And I didn’t really, I didn’t really. I think that it was like, you cannot talk at all.

[00:44:02] Jesse Lin: Like I just thought it was like, oh, you have to be quiet when you’re meditating. Um,

[00:44:07] Angela Lin: I mean that’s true, but you’re also meditating the entire day

[00:44:10] Jesse Lin: That’s that’s the thing is when you told me that I was like, that’s crazy. I will lose my mind when I’m bored. I talked to my cat.

[00:44:19] Jesse Lin: I mean, I will talk

[00:44:20] Angela Lin: to myself in my head apparently. You know what I mean? Like, we’ll see how that goes.

[00:44:25] Angela Lin: How about you?

[00:44:26] Jesse Lin: Um, well I feel like I had a really good answer for this and then like, I forgot it. I think what I’m. Okay. So like I’ve been going through some like mood swings because it’s sad and cold here now. And also just like, um, my life has just been pretty stressful.

[00:44:43] Jesse Lin: But I’ve been trying to get more into this whole, like I’m sitting with my feelings thing, which is like, instead of trying to avoid negative feelings, I’m just trying to, I hate the word lean into it, but I’m trying to like, feel into it to try to not like understand it necessarily, but just to kind of like embrace it and like see where that goes.

[00:45:09] Jesse Lin: And I found that that works quite well when I combine it with like a physical, physical activity. So like if I go for a walk or if I go biking or something like that. So I think I’m going to do more of that when I’m feeling like not in a good mood, because what I found is like a lot of the times that’ll happen in the middle of the workday because I’m like frustrated something happens.

[00:45:30] Jesse Lin: But then like, I’m like, oh my God, I don’t have to have, I don’t have time. Like I have to sit your meeting, whatever. And then it just like, it just feels like I’m like crazy, like crazy. I just feel crazy. And I need to like physically remove myself from this space to go, like, to be able to like, hug that emotion without like exploding into a million pieces.

[00:45:51] Jesse Lin: Um, so yeah, I think I’m going to start doing that more. I did that today and it was very nice.

[00:45:56] Angela Lin: That’s awesome. That’s very mature and something that I need to figure out how to do myself.

[00:46:01] Jesse Lin: Honestly. I want to tell you like half the time I don’t do it properly. I, or I come back. I’m like even angrier.

[00:46:12] Jesse Lin: But yeah, I just think it’s, I’ve been trying to the whole idea of like, make space for emotions and like make space for things I’m like, okay, I’m going to physically make space and see how that goes.

[00:46:25] Angela Lin: Yeah, I like it. Okay. Well, we will debrief also to see if you’ve gotten better at that. After my silent meditation retreat weekend have a check-in point.

[00:46:35] Angela Lin: Yes. All right. Well, listeners, we’ve now come to the end of the episode and as always, we seek your feedback and your experiences. So this episode was about trying new things, taking risks, write us in about something that you’ve recently tried for the first time or something you’re so happy that you tried for the first time that you didn’t think you would do or something you immediately regret having tried, like, we want to hear it all. So write us in at telluswhereyourefrom@gmail.com and maybe we’ll share your experience on the show.

[00:47:10] Jesse Lin: It can be anything, we talked about big things, but maybe you tried concealer for the first time recently.