Episode 6 – Hey Mom, I’m (Not) on TV!
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Full Transcript (Note: Transcribed via AI, may contain errors)
Jesse Lin 0:09
Hey there, I’m Jesse Lin.
Angela Lin 0:09
And I’m Angela Lin, and welcome to another episode of but where are you really from?
Jesse Lin 0:16
This week we’re going to talk about media representation. So why do we care about media representation? I think that what we see in the media creates kind of boundaries or barriers for us every day that we have to confront and knock down. We really wanted to after reviewing the movie Tiger tail and discussing an immigrant story, really dive into how Asian American stories are told in the media now how its transformed through the years and where we think that it’s gonna be.
Angela Lin 0:51
Yeah, the reason why media representation and showcasing Asian stories is so important is that the media For better, for worse represents what people think is normal and representative of the real world and who matters. So the fact that we are now starting as Asians and Asian Americans to be represented more and more in mainstream media, not just TV and film films in our motherland countries makes it so that we’re being legitimized as like, just as important as anyone else in society versus before when you never saw Asians on the silver screen. You know, I think at least for me, growing up, it was like, Am I normal? Is this like, how come I don’t see anyone who looks like me when I watch something, right? Mm hmm. So that’s why we care.
Angela Lin 1:48
But let’s get into kind of where is it now. my perspective is that we’re in a way better place than we were when movies and TV and all that for started so Obviously the fact that Jessica and I were able to dedicate a whole episode to a movie about the Taiwanese immigrants story last week says a lot about the breadth and depth of Asian stories that are able to be told today. But back when TV and film for started Asians were actually included as characters, but in Super problematic ways. So if you think about things like Breakfast at Tiffany’s, all of these like old school productions that people constantly think of as cult classics, they have Asian characters in them, and yet they’re actually played by white people. And they’re always played in this super stereotypical, like, exaggerated, frankly, racist way. So that character in Breakfast at Tiffany’s like he’s wearing huge fake teeth, he has slit eyes and it’s played by like Mickey Rooney ears like like it’s totally not an Asian person. So offensive. Fast forward to like today. Yes, we have like, the john shows the world breaking through and like not just cast because he’s Asian but cast, despite him being Asian kind of characters, like that’s phenomenal. But there’s also a bunch of whitewashing again, white people being cast in what should have been Asian character roles. So some progress has been made, but fuck, we have a long way to go.
Angela Lin 3:34
Within the context of knowing that we’ve made some progress, but have a long way to go, we wanted to talk about media representation in terms of some big themes that we find either problematic or are trying to get kind of like why we haven’t been fully represented up to this point. So the first theme that we learned to hone in on was Around kind of this concept of being typecast into roles,
Jesse Lin 4:06
yeah. So from what we were discussing before about how media representation is no way a reality it helps normalize and also make visible, different people through different stories. And the way that those stories play out and how frequent and common they are create what we also discussed, which are I feel personal like barriers, both external and internal, meaning that what you see is basically what you get in reality in a lot of situations. So I think something that has improved but has continued to be a problem in media is the roles and ways that Asian people are used in those specific roles. So we see in a lot of like television shows or movies, that a usually Asian people are not cast in the roles and be If they are casting any roles, they’re usually very stereotypical roles. They’ll have like the Asian person, as a doctor, as a lawyer, as an engineer, so things that are very stereotyped to being Asian. And this is really challenging because there’s a whole set of Asian people that don’t do those occupations. So it’s, I think, a problem to be only seen in that way where you, you only possess these specific characteristics, because then you also become fit into a general description of those particular roles. So they’re like very, those roles are all very like clinical like uptight, straight and narrow roles. The roles themselves enforce some characteristics upon Asian people that we don’t always want to adhere to, like, we’re people and we have dimensions. So I think that the idea of seeing model minority in media is really negative in the sense because it forces you to confront this general idea of what others think of you, when you know it’s not true. So it’s always really, really uncomfortable to see, like typecast model minority bulls. I totally
Angela Lin 6:12
agree. And I feel like a big reason why we’re typecast is because we are not the main character. Most of the time these kinds of characters are just like background filler, right? Like they’re so nice and they’re one dimensional is because it’s like, we had to like check a box of like, we included some minorities, caste or whatever, but like, there, I don’t have time, nor do I care to flesh out this character to have their own story or personality to enhance just the super one dimensional stereotype that I’m attributing to them.
Jesse Lin 6:49
Honestly, I think that’s the biggest shame in the whole way that Asian people are represented because what you just said is basically that it’s lazy thinking right? Like they don’t want to take the time to fly to really think about how a character’s background and really play into how they’re seen in that particular scene or movie or whatever. So I personally think it’s just a shame because it’s also an opportunity to really improve the stories we’re telling by integrating a wider the more dynamic range of a person into the into that role.
Angela Lin 7:21
Alright, so speaking of kind of stereotypes, I outside of occupational stereotype, there’s also the way that Asians are portrayed in terms of masculinity or femininity. Let’s split it by gender so that we present I feel like from a like a female standpoint, certainly for sure, like in the older film, and I think even to like more modern stuff to Asian women are constantly portrayed as just these like, super dama saw like quiet obedient. Honestly, just like don’t holes that are there like Billy’s the man and I hate when they are cast as like the trophy wife or like fuck no, not trophy wife we don’t even deserve that label as Asians we’re just the mail order wives, right of like old white men because then you really are just like you’re not a real person. There’s this like side thing that has been bought and is like serves one purpose and one purpose only which is like sex and like to be there so they’re not lonely that’s like it. And I think it’s rare that Asian women outside of the context of like, kung fu movies, which another like whole rant to talk about but like it when they are not the main character and it’s not within the context of like a historical drama or kung fu type movie like Asian women just are portrayed as like meek
Jesse Lin 8:59
Yeah, I have to agree with With that, I mean, even in the movies where you do have strong Asian woman leading a lot of the times, they’re written in a way where it’s like, she’s portraying inner strength and they’re just like putting her through the wringer. And you’re kind of just like, okay, but like she, she could have betrayed also, like, outer strength, strength and confidence, like you should didn’t have written in that way. So, I like 100% agree with you on that.
Jesse Lin 9:24
From the masculinity side, I actually think it is pretty tied to the role in some aspects and then other aspects of not. And what I mean by that is, if you think about those roles that we just discussed, doctors, lawyers, engineers, these are very male dominated industry. So it’s kind of a very interesting typecast to put an Asian man into a male dominated interesting because they align right so you’re like, very logical, methodical male and a logical, methodical industry. But then when you try to get into like the new ones, The character bring more depth into the character, you start to see that that’s not like consistently applied, especially when you look at romantic movies or movies that have scenes of romance in them. There’s almost never any way where an Asian male is seen as sexy. And it’s so funny because on one hand, you have them in these like very lack of a better man the roles but on the other hand, you refuse to acknowledge the fact that they can also be seen as desirable attractive, and so you only have like one piece of that person, which always comes off as one dimensional, right? It’s just like, this person is a doctor and that’s really all there is to them. Which when you’re watching something that’s dramatic, it’s emotional. It’s trying to get a rise out of you seeing that is kind of just like, oh, okay, like this is not like I don’t really, I can’t connect with that because that person just literally has that one, one facet. to them.
Angela Lin 11:00
Yeah. And I also feel like this emphasis on masculinity and like being sexy or portrayed as sexy for men is super detrimental in the real world, right? Because I definitely remember seeing some stats around like online dating from maybe a few years ago, but like Asian men are like, the least desirable statistically or like one of the least desirable groups of people on online dating, at least I think it was only for straight people. But like, yeah, the sad I saw what was reflecting that and I think it is because people are seeing these reinforced like, fake, fake stories about what a male Asian is supposed to be like. So they just assume that like, they’re not able to find their sexy, hunky masculine man in an Asian because that’s what media is. telling them about these people.
Jesse Lin 12:02
Absolutely. 100%. I mean, like, I can just anecdotally say, like, when I was on Grindr here, that’s how I felt. When I was on Grindr and Asia, I felt like a frickin celebrity. Like being hit up, like non stop. So it hundred percent is because the local people in Asia are used to seeing themselves represented in the media. So they’re like, they are attracted to the people there because those are the people there. But here where we have a mix of people, the media still predominantly portraying masculine, sexualized role as like this one kind of binary and then everyone else kind of just misses out.
Angela Lin 12:40
Yeah. Okay. We kind of touched on kung fu and martial arts. And I did want to dive in a little bit here because in terms of kind of like, additional stereotypes and ways that Asians have been able to break into Hollywood, for better for worse, I mean, the like Bruce Lee’s, of the world. worlds right? Like we’re able to kind of mainstream the presence of Asian people in Hollywood. And like in very early days, but that is only because it was kind of through this accepted vehicle that white people felt like okay and not threatened by which is kung fu and martial arts because they’re like, Well, yeah, is when people do those things and we don’t do those things. That’s fine. It’s like an Asian man is, is the one kind of being the star lead here. But I think it was really hard for us to break away from that, like think about Jackie Chan, right. Like, he was only doing martial art related fit. Yeah, yeah. Asians just kind of had to like accept the the roles that white film producers and directors and writers were willing to cast them in, because it was like take it or leave it. You want to be in this or not like you’re allowed to fit in a certain square that we accept you to be So go for it or don’t,
Jesse Lin 14:02
unfortunately, I feel like for a lot of Asian American actors really like their only opportunity to make it big in Hollywood was probably to do one of those blockbuster films where the role is one of those fetishized things that people like about Asian culture with the hopes that you could do like a wider range of work afterwards, but to what you were saying about Jackie Chan, I think he has done different movies with wider, like wider scope, but definitely not like American blockbusters. I think a lot of people don’t want to be stuck in that position where they are basically like, you’re always the kung fu person, you’re always making the, you’re always making the kung fu movies. So I think that part of that leads to hesitancy in producing stories like these because people don’t necessarily want to be like that person who’s always going to be making that story.
Angela Lin 14:57
So we’re getting into this like people not wanting to like pigeonhole themselves into certain roles or story types. And I do think there are some good examples of Asian and Asian American folks in the entertainment industry today that are trying really hard not to be pigeonholed and so like awkwafina is a really good example like I mean she was this like unexpected breakout right to be an Ocean’s eight with like all those huge weight and mini killing but like look love money and it didn’t matter that she was Asian in that you know, like she just happened to be Asian and then like she’s been very thoughtful of the roles that she’s taken since then and even if she’s in quote unquote Asian movies like they are ones that shot that tell the story in like a genuine and and positive light right so like the farewell was definitely like a very breakthrough movie in terms of like how Crossing that barrier of English and caption, like necessary type movie and like telling the Chinese family and like cultural story in a really authentic way. And then now she’s actually in she’s in a like Viacom show where she’s like a stoner like a college dropout or something like just like defying the norms of what Asian people are constantly being cast of. I think she’s doing great. And then like Aziz Ansari, for example, is like, you know, always breaking the mold of what Indian people are supposed to be. He’s a great example. And then, of course, Mindy Kaling, I could talk the whole episode about her. I love her so much.
Jesse Lin 16:44
I mean, it does speak to the progress that we’ve seen that these individuals are able to pick and choose the stories that they feel that they can truly embody and bring to light because I feel like you know, if fuzzies for awkwafina or Mindy Kaling had been trying to break in at that point in time, it would have been really difficult. But now, people are interested in seeing and hearing these stories. And that allows people to take more risks on the type of projects they want to do with a type of stories they want to tell. And in turn, it gives everyone more opportunities to do really interesting creative things and bring to light stories about people cultures, experiences that haven’t been told before.
Angela Lin 17:29
I think we’re getting to a really important topic, which is kind of like why haven’t we been fully represented? A Novel not a lot of Asian people are working in the industry. So it’s hard to be authentic to our culture, if you’re not actually from our culture, right. I think that the reason why we’re making progress a lot of times now is because we are getting more Asians into this like non traditional career path. It’s not something that was supported. by a lot of Asian parents, so these people had to like, go against what their parents are pressuring them, I’m sure as young kids and like what they were supposed to do for their future. But like they got their way into Hollywood and like kind of paid their dues doing other things. And then now they have like credible reputations. So like a lot of reasons that stuff’s being produced now is because they’re the ones like writing it. So not easy work, but like we’re getting it done because we’re infiltrating the system or ourselves,
Jesse Lin 18:35
aside from the fact that there are now people in the industry where there weren’t before. I think part of the reason why we really didn’t see a lot of detailed stories about different experiences in the past is that the general American population is not interested in seeing stories because they’re nice stories. So I think that’s been part of the reason why a studio or produce or company would not invest in a movie or production or story that has no these Nish elements in it but I think part of that is really not true right like we see now all these movies are coming out and there is a lot of demand for them and not just demand from people with Asian backgrounds but a lot of those popular movies with Asian cast that just came out like these rich Asians or the farewell are like really received well received by a wide range of people. And I also think that people stopped waiting just like how we’re producing this podcast we know someone’s interested we’re not going to wait for someone to remind you what we already know we’re gonna go and make it
Angela Lin 19:39
I mean, I do think one movie that was like taking good strides to change things in the right way is crazy rich Asians, which like, I think is a polarizing movie people have like different feelings about it, especially amongst Asian community but I am going to put out there that like trying to be like objective have about it in terms of like, Okay, forget if you like them or not, but in terms of casting an all Asian cast into a mainstream hollywood movie, and really portraying the men as like super sexy means that you like people that you really want to get with, like, I remember being a little uncomfortable, but like also he when like, they, like panned in on kind of unnecessarily long shower scene or whatever at the time, you’re like, Oh, wow. Like they’re trying to change it. So I do think there are strides that are being made to try to like change that identity, but it’s like little baby steps at a time, right.
Jesse Lin 20:52
Yeah, I agree. I also think that that movie contained a lot of things that were specifically things to break The stereotype so while you’re saying like having an all Asian cast, number one having Asian males in lead roles where they are seen as sexy and sexualized awkwafina was also in it. So female comic Asian, so someone that’s loud and boisterous as opposed to introspective. I’m also just depicting like the whole gamut of Asian families that exist. So you have like Henry Golding’s family, who’s fabulously wealthy, and we have that we know we have families like that. And then on the other hand, you have constant whose family who’s like a very similar story to our parents. So there’s all these really great kind of things that are hidden in there. They’re like, really, I really enjoyed because they’re, yeah, they’re like a big fuck you to how how Asians have been portrayed. So I think something else that is really great as some of the new blockbusters that are coming out are like this fusion that’s span the gap between Western interests and Asian interests.
Jesse Lin 22:04
So some of the examples that we’ve seen so far are the live action Disney remake of Mulan, where there is a very, how would you say it Angela like “wu xia” to it, or like, it is very like martial arts, but the blockbusters done in a way where it’s very like, almost like a Western action movie. So it’s like combined two good things to produce kind of happy medium between Western and Eastern filmmaking where there’s, let’s say, a more Western approach to the action, but it respects the roots of where that form of action is coming from.
Angela Lin 22:41
I do think this movie in particular is like taking something super familiar, and putting a twist on it. So like, to a certain extent, I’m kind of like man Disney be ripping off China, but on the other hand, I’m like, hey, whatever it takes to like, get authentic Chinese storytelling and filmmaking, to be accepted in like mainstream Western media so that we can start making these like blended forms of media more common and acceptable. So Fine.
Jesse Lin 23:14
Yeah, I mean, it’s it’s good and more people are exposed to it. I think it’s also a really good example how studios and companies in general are willing to take more risks on telling stories like this. It does really show how far things have come. I mean, I just I remember like, literally maybe like two years ago there was that Matt Damon movie great. That’s like the opposite of what we’re talking about. To go from Mac to this. I think it does show a lot of progress. We’ve also seen kind of like, I feel like everyone talks about culture in the sense that it like leaks from the west to the east and like, everybody loves our stuff, but there’s also reverse of that. So like Bollywood is already A great example of something that’s produced locally and has gained a lot of popularity here. I mean, within the Indian community, but also in general is just so amazing and memorable and just fun to watch. And also, things like Kpop which, which is not like movie media, but it’s music media that a lot of people here are interested in that are not Korean or are interesting.
Angela Lin 24:29
Yeah, it’s a it’s like so heartwarming to see a bunch of white people singing Korean, they had to like intently learn those words and like what they mean and they do it because they love it so much. And it doesn’t matter that these guys are Korean. They’re actually willing to go past that barrier to like, learn a different language to a certain extent, so that they can fulfill this fandom. I love it. I love it so much.
Jesse Lin 24:58
Yeah, I mean 100 percent speaks to the fact that if what you’re producing is good, people will want to listen to it, they will want to consume it. It doesn’t really matter who is communicating it as long as it’s great content. And it’s really great to see that kind of like cross culture pollination were things that are foreign are coming here.
Jesse Lin 25:30
We’re now in the closing section of our podcasts fortune cookie, as we always like to end with something sweet. If you like this week’s episode, or you had some thoughts about media representation, please let us know what your thoughts are. Send your feedback, your personal thoughts, anything that you want to tell us about today’s topic? to our email? telluswhereyourefrom@gmail.com that’s y-o-u-r-e. So this week we want to close with something fun. We’re going to talk about which famous Asian actor actresses we are currently crushing on.
Angela Lin 26:10
Yeah, so I’m a huge The Good Place fan, really sad that the series just ended. But I love Jason from the good place. Manny Jacinto he is so hot as most Filipino breakdancer people are. But I also really, really appreciate it that throughout the entire series Kristen Bell’s character constantly reminded everyone of how high Jason was. Because again, like just is subconsciously reinforcing that Asian men can be sexy and like doing that anti masculinity stuff that we were talking about before. So, Jason from the good place. That’s mine. How about you?
Jesse Lin 26:53
Before I started, have you seen him read through his tweets on BuzzFeed? Oh my god, you should go. You should go do it. Oh my god. It’s so funny. Hilarious I love it. It’s so funny. Okay, so for me, I am picking will Yun Lee, he’s been acting for a while now he’s like 49, almost 50 but I recently like rediscovered my crush for him because he was on altered carbon, the new Netflix season and he is smoking in altered carpet like he is in such good shape that it’s like, it’s like so amazing. And like so I’m like immediately crushing on him. And he’s also pretty, like he plays the part like really well. It’s like really physically intensive. It’s just like amazing to watch him perform in the physicality of our role.
Angela Lin 27:43
Yeah, that’s crazy.
Jesse Lin 27:45
Yeah, I mean, go watch it and you’ll be like that man is not 50
Angela Lin 27:49
he’s like the Asian Jared Leto vampire for life.
Jesse Lin 27:53
Yeah vampire for like, he was really good.
Angela Lin 27:57
Nice and to the point of sending In stuff feel free to email us with your favorite Asian celebrity as well just for shits and giggles. That’d be a fun thing for us to repost those. Yeah. Love it. Okay, well, so as always, we really appreciate all of your support each week would really help us if you like, follow and subscribe to us at whichever of your favorite podcast listening platforms you’re on. that’ll really help us get more visibility and ensure that you get the latest episode each week. And with that said, definitely come back next week because we will have a fresh episode for you.
Angela Lin 28:36
in closing…
All 28:36
Zai jian, bitches!