[00:00:00] Jesse Lin: Hi, my name is Jesse Lin
[00:00:00] Angela Lin: And I’m Angela Lin and welcome back to, But Where Are You Really From?
[00:00:04] Jesse Lin: This week we’re going to talk to you guys about the Squid Game and why we think people are so interested in it. I know it’s like a little bit after the peak of the popularity, but I think it’s still really worth, um, the discussion to have, because I think that there’ll be like many more pieces of interesting work like that coming from Netflix and other streaming providers.
Full Transcript (Note: Transcribed via AI, may contain errors)
[00:00:24] Jesse Lin: In short, do you want to do this, the plot synopsis?
[00:00:27] Angela Lin: Yeah for those living under a rock and have not heard about Squid Game or you’ve heard of it, but you still haven’t watched it. Essentially it’s about people who are in so much debt that they’re like super desperate and this like mysterious person shows up, um, kind of like approaching each of these indebted people and offers them essentially to play games to win money and he starts off with something like very small. It’s a weird, like slapping game. You got to watch it to understand, but anyways, yeah. Simply enough that they’re like, Hey, I just won like quite a bit of money from doing this random, stupid game. Yeah. I’m down. So then they get this business card that they call a number and then they essentially get kind of like kidnapped-ey scenario.
[00:01:19] Angela Lin: And then they wake up all in like matching uniforms in some unknown compound. And they’re forced to play what seemed like childhood type games. But essentially when you lose you die.
[00:01:31] Jesse Lin: Yes.
[00:01:32] Angela Lin: Yeah but you could win like a lottery level money.
[00:01:37] Jesse Lin: Yeah. Yeah. So effectively it’s like economic Saw.
[00:01:43] Angela Lin: Yeah. Capitalist Saw.
[00:01:46] Jesse Lin: Yeah.
[00:01:46] Angela Lin: Sure and hunger games.
[00:01:48] Jesse Lin: Yes. It’s definitely – well I never actually finished watching all of the Hunger Games. Sorry. No, but I, I don’t know if it’s as gory as Saw, but there’s definitely some.
[00:01:58] Angela Lin: It’s fairly gory.
[00:01:59] Jesse Lin: Some people getting kind of like torn apart situation, but yeah, so, I mean, there’s like so many interesting things about it, right?
[00:02:07] Jesse Lin: Like that we could discuss because number one, it’s, I see it for a similar to kind of like Parasite capturing the imagination of the American public, because it’s a foreign film, but like a lot of people really seem to be interested and then that interest seems to just be like bubbling up from the internet ether.
[00:02:26] Jesse Lin: Yeah. And there’s also like, uh, I really other interesting aspects of it. Like it really, I think, points to and pokes at the whole like economic structure and like social equality or a social justice or whatever you want to name it. And also there are a lot of really hot people in the cast.
[00:02:45] Angela Lin: There are, and we, we have so many little like tidbits that we need to kind of dissect around that.
[00:02:51] Angela Lin: Um, but I think talking about. Like, why is that so captivating to begin with? I think we wanted to like speculate a little bit. Right. And I think you’re right. Like there is, there are some similarities with Parasite in that both are, are criticizing the like extreme income inequality in society and obviously both are set in Korea, but like it’s very extrapolatable to a lot of different societies and US included.
[00:03:20] Angela Lin: I know, I like to make up words. Maybe it’s a real word. I don’t know anyhoots. Um, So, so I think anyone who watched Parasite for sure, it’s like, okay, I can get down with this too. But like I said, it’s kind of like, there are so many parallels with other things. I already mentioned Hunger Games, but Hunger Games even is like a derivative of, um, what the fuck is that?
[00:03:45] Angela Lin: Japan, that Japanese movie that is Battle Royale. And they’re just like, there were a million of those types of shows and movies where it’s essentially like super dystopian, like winner take all like savage kind of battle Royale style. Um, so I think there was familiar tropes there. Um, but yeah. Why else do you think it was so…?
[00:04:13] Jesse Lin: Yeah, to echo what you’re saying is also like a very much like. The format blends so many things together that there’s something familiar to each of the, each person watching it. And actually, like I was thinking about it recently, and I was like, this is like Survivor but people don’t die.
[00:04:34] Jesse Lin: And so like having that like contrast, I’m like, oh my God, this is like basically Survivor and really the one difference is that people are murdered at the end of the challenges and stuff like that.
[00:04:44] Angela Lin: Instead of kicked off an island?
[00:04:45] Jesse Lin: Exactly. So it’s like it, I think it’s maybe people aren’t thinking about it actively, but they’re like, oh my, that, you know, they’re, they’re making all these connections.
[00:04:56] Jesse Lin: And I also think that timing has a lot to do with it. I was just having, uh this, discussion with my friend about K-pop and like K-pop has been around for a while. Cause I remember when I was going out, um, at the end of high school, like when I was 18, Uh, there was like a gaysians only like night and they would, it was, they would play like K-pop pop and like other stuff like that too.
[00:05:17] Jesse Lin: But like, I feel like those artists kind of missed the huge popularity wave, even though they were already there. So I think this is the same kind of situation where it’s like, right format, right theming, right timing. And that’s what really drove everyone, you know, to be, to be really so interested in the series.
[00:05:39] Angela Lin: I think you’re right. Um, and we did, we have an episode about BTS and K-pop, if you haven’t already listened to that with two huge BTS army folks anyways. Um, so I agree. I think the, the like really mainstream wave of K-pop right now is helping push Korean content forward. Because I think you and I have talked about this outside of the podcast, but like we both enjoyed Squid Game.
[00:06:08] Angela Lin: I think most people enjoyed the show, but because it is very similar to a lot of different things, it’s kind of like a Frankenstein of like familiar things that exist, uh, Hostel is another obvious kind of parallel. Um, for those that have watched that, but because it’s Korean, I think that’s pushing it forward because you and I have talked about you’re the one who recommended it to me actually.
[00:06:36] Angela Lin: But Alice in Borderlands is a Japanese show and it came out before Squid Game and it was phenomenal. It was so fucking good, but it’s very similar. It’s like also battle Royale type and like weird games that people have to play at. And if you lose, you die, like kind of similar core concept, but it was not blown up in the same way.
[00:07:00] Angela Lin: Um, I think I’m seeing it serve now, if you watch Squid Game, like it’s, you know, it’s a natural next step, but it’s just surprising to me because -might get a lot of shit for this. But arguably yeah, I think Alice in Borderland was like a lot better than Squid Game from a whole package standpoint, but no one heard of it.
[00:07:21] Angela Lin: It was kind of weird to me that that was the case.
[00:07:24] Jesse Lin: It’s a little bit, for me, it’s a little bit different because I enjoy Alice in Borderland better because there’s a little more mystery. It’s definitely more like sci-fi. Sure. Yeah. And I don’t think they fully explained like why all the people are there, but in this one, I feel like one of the main things that people are jiving with is they’re like, oh, I see myself in some of these characters because everyone is… well, I can’t say everyone, but like most people are struggling in some way. Actually, a lot of people are struggling economically. So it’s like that one thing where they can be like, you know, like, I feel like metaphorically, my life is like this. I go into work, I do some things. And then at the end of the day, I’m like, I feel like dead or I’m like not rewarded or it’s like kind of like hamster wheel kind of situation.
[00:08:12] Jesse Lin: So I feel like that’s what a lot of people are potentially connecting with.
[00:08:17] Angela Lin: Yeah, I guess you’re right. Because the Alice in Borderlands plot is just like suddenly and you don’t know why it’s happening at all. Yeah. Versus, yeah. The interesting thing about Squid Game is that all these people opted in to take part in this crazy, battle royale scenario even re opting in right? Because there’s like early on thing where people are like, what the hell we’re going to die, I don’t want to play this. And then people opt out, but then they actively opt back in because they’re like, what else do I have going on? Like my life can’t be worse. And I think to your point, everyone has different struggles, but I think everyone has felt even to a small degree that kind of like desperation and hopelessness that would put you into that kind of position.
[00:09:04] Jesse Lin: I mean, like everyone’s spent the better half of last year trapped. Like it either, you know, it could be, it could have been just like mental trap, but like, you know, some people are like, a lot of us were like physically by ourselves for a long time. So I think there’s definitely that like feeling, um, of just like you can’t escape and maybe that’s, what’s really bringing people into the, into the thing and keeping them there.
[00:09:29] Angela Lin: Yeah, I agree. There’s also, I think anything with nostalgia kind of like has an extra plus 10. And even though we’re not Korean, and then we didn’t grow up in Korea, a lot of those childhood games that they were playing, it’s like, it’s easy enough for you to kind of like understand what that game was. And you can also kind of project into like, oh, I remember when I was a kid and we’d play like, I don’t know, hopscotch or like random shit. And if I imagine that, yeah, tetherball becoming like some crazy, life or death…
[00:10:00] Jesse Lin: Oh my God, can you imagine playing tetherball and you lose and the ball explodes and you die?
[00:10:04] Angela Lin: Bruh, or the ball is like, uh, head decapitated
[00:10:08] Jesse Lin: But you know, that’s a really good point because I feel like there are a lot of shows where people are really interested because it’s like this perversion of innocence, you know?
[00:10:15] Jesse Lin: So they’re taking something that’s like nostalgic, it’s like tied to your childhood, something that’s kind of like pure and then kind of like inverting it into something that becomes traumatic or like evil, dark or something like that, yeah. I also found that like, okay, so like I’ve never been to Korea and I don’t really know how modern Korean society is like, but it was really interesting to see those vignettes that they did include of the people like in their lives and like how good or bad those situations were.
[00:10:49] Jesse Lin: And of course it’s a TV show. So it’s like, I don’t know how realistic it is, but like, there were definitely some moments where I was like, oh, I didn’t know this was the case. Like. When Gi-hun’s mom went to the hospital and she’s like, oh, I can’t pay for it. And I was like, I thought that shit was free over there.
[00:11:07] Jesse Lin: And then I also really liked that they included, um, a migrant worker in the cast because it’s also, I think it’s a huge issue that’s like really hidden and people don’t really have a lot of visibility into it. Of course it’s like how it actually is, there is really hard to tell, but it was really interesting to see those kind of stories.
[00:11:29] Angela Lin: Yeah. I really liked that. And they all, yeah, I agree. There was a large diversity in kind of like backgrounds from people. I also liked that that girl, that everyone felt fell in love with plays a north Korean defector. Like there’s all these interesting tidbits, but the migrant worker, I agree. I really enjoyed that they worked that in, and I don’t know if you read up on any articles about that guy, but like that actor apparently has been trying to break, break out in Korean entertainment for a long time. Like he’s been acting for many years and his biggest role up until Squid Game was like, I don’t know, I probably got it wrong, but it was like Pakistani guy number two or something in the credits.
[00:12:11] Angela Lin: And so this was like his big fucking break. And so it was like this double win, right? It’s like the fact that a migrant worker as his character could be lucky enough to have this opportunity to win all this money. And then him as an actor, actually having the opportunity to represent this silent kind of part of the population that’s struggling.
[00:12:35] Angela Lin: So, and obviously like we’re all about Asian representation. That’s like double representation in my mind. So I really liked that. Yeah.
[00:12:43] Jesse Lin: Yeah. So, I mean, I think one of what I was talking about was like, it’s hard to understand how things are actually in Korea. And I also feel like one of the things that was hard to understand what some of the nuances in the language, because we don’t speak Korean so there was a lot of stuff, at least from I saw on the Twitter verse about how you miss a lot of the meaning of what each person is saying, which helps to characterize how that person is when you’re just reading the subtitles, because they weren’t really translated with the same level of nuance.
[00:13:19] Angela Lin: Yes. Well, I guess there’s like two conversations to be had here because one is just translation in general, you will lose some sort of context if you don’t speak the native language.
[00:13:32] Angela Lin: So let’s, that’s the scenario in which we’re reading subtitles. The other conversation is the dub versus subtitles. Oh, there was a huge. Yeah, there’s this huge Twitter showdown around dubs versus subtitles. And I don’t do dubs at all. They’re fucking weird. And it was just super weird, but apparently, and I didn’t think about it, but a huge, because this is one of the first foreign shows that a lot of non Asian people have watched, ever dub is an easier go-to route for a lot of folks.
[00:14:08] Angela Lin: And I never thought of it that way. I think maybe because. Maybe because we’re Asian. So we already kind of like Asian American. So we already are more open to watching, like, I don’t know, Asian content or other content where we don’t speak the language perfectly so we need subtitles. We’re more used to having subtitles on as opposed.. but letting the like original language play.
[00:14:28] Angela Lin: But I guess Western cultures, especially if you don’t usually watch anything, that’s not in English. Maybe dub is more approachable because you’re like, oh, it’s like easier for me to understand. And I don’t have to read because that this can like spiral into a whole other thing. Right. Because I’m one of those people that like, when I want to eat English stuff, I have subtitles on English.
[00:14:51] Jesse Lin: Oh me too, Enlish subtitles.
[00:14:53] Angela Lin: Yeah because I just, my hearing, I think if I turned it off, I would actually have better hearing, but I like comprehension, but I’m just like, it’s just easier for me to like, match the words in this. But a lot of people hate subtitles, like English with English. They really don’t like subtitles.
[00:15:13] Angela Lin: Cause it kinda like takes you. So, so then the argument I guess, to be made is if you’re an English speaker who doesn’t usually watch anything, that’s not in English and you don’t like subtitles it, dub is a more natural, like way for you. So, I guess I can empathize with that, but I think it is one of those things that like, if you only speak English, you would not understand why this is a big deal because you don’t understand what nuances lost versus like, if you’ve ever spoken two languages. And you’ve heard kind of the difference between a translated version of what you meant to say and what is being spoken. You get that, it’s kinda like it’s not the same.
[00:15:58] Jesse Lin: Yeah and I think if, yeah, if you, if you only really know one language, you’ve never encountered that situation where you’re like, I don’t have the words to express this, but once you learn a different language, there’s like idioms or situations where you’re like, what is that? And the person has to like explain to you, but you still don’t really understand it until you’re like deep into it. Um, I think that that’s such an interesting conversation because I also have English subtitles on when I watch an English, because sometimes mostly it’s audio leveling issues.
[00:16:27] Jesse Lin: Like the sound is too loud, but then the dialogue is like [unintelligible], and so I just have it so I can actually hear what the people are saying. But I find it’s the opposite. Like if you do dub over something that is not originally in English, it takes me out of the fantasy because it’s like watching a drag queen lip-sync who doesn’t know the words to the song.
[00:16:50] Jesse Lin: It’s just like the lips don’t match up. So I’m like that’s, I would rather read subtitles and see them talk their native language. It’s the less, less strange. Um, but I do think it’s an interesting conversation to be had about like what the future of these shows will look like, because I’m sure there will be more of them.
[00:17:11] Jesse Lin: And I feel like the idea around like Netflix, Hulu originals is to do like as many as possible because they want to like keep people stuck there. And so it begs the question whether or not they will ever work to improve the quality of the quality versus quantity basically, yeah.
[00:17:30] Angela Lin: Yeah. I mean, to be fair, this was a high quality show.
[00:17:34] Jesse Lin: Yeah, yeah.
[00:17:35] Angela Lin: So, but you mean in terms of like the dubbing, the other language inclusiveness? Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. Okay. I’ll say one more thing about the dub is, uh, I think I agree with you. It completely whacks me out of the like immersion, because it also bothers the shit out of me when the things don’t match. But also, I don’t know why maybe I think anyone who’s heard of dove can agree, but there’s like overacting that’s done when it’s a dubbed voice?
[00:18:06] Jesse Lin: I, so my theory about that is that they don’t actually see the show. They’re just reading a script because the show, if they were to do the dub after the show is done or in post, they may not have enough time to record everything.
[00:18:20] Angela Lin: But that possibly be the case because you need to know how quickly someone is talking to be able to match the amount of time they’re on screen. So they have to be watching it too, to know, like, I can’t take 30 seconds to say this when he’s only on screen for 10.
[00:18:35] Jesse Lin: I don’t know. I don’t know, man. I don’t know how that process goes, but I generally agree with you that it just is like, it’s, it takes me out out of the fantasy it doesn’t really match necessarily what’s happening in this situation.
[00:18:48] Jesse Lin: And um, I also, maybe if it is recorded while, they’re watching like part of why it’s like that is that they don’t understand what the people are saying. So they’re probably like, just try to either match the energy or like what’s on their face and it’s odd.
[00:19:03] Jesse Lin: Yeah, I guess so
[00:19:05] Angela Lin: the other sub topic, uh, because you were talking about like, will Netflix and other production companies essentially, right?
[00:19:13] Angela Lin: Will they improve the quality of like this mixed language environment now? And I don’t know if you know. I don’t know if it bothered you as much as it bothered me, but the English speaker, English speaking actors that were in the show, were really?
[00:19:31] Jesse Lin: Oh, it was so hokey.
[00:19:32] Angela Lin: It was awful.
[00:19:32] Jesse Lin: I was like, I was like, where did you guys get these people?
[00:19:36] Angela Lin: Ok. And because you don’t watch K dramas. Right. And we just talked about how I’ve, I’m not watching like a million K dramas. They’re always find a way to include English unnecessarily in K dramas. And I think I get it. I get it because it’s like, if it’s based in Korea and previous Netflix globalizing everything, most people watching K dramas were Korean.
[00:19:59] Angela Lin: So English is like fucking fancy. Right. It’s like, Ooh. You’re like, yeah, exactly. Um, so they, they include it to get like brownie points. So it doesn’t matter how shitty it is or if they have like English speaking afters that are terrible acting because no one would know if they are Korean, like non Korean Americans right? So I think that’s why it’s always been included. I think with Squid Game blowing the fuck up, like now it’s so many non-Korean people that watched that show and those scenes with those English speakers…
[00:20:32] Jesse Lin: Everybody was like, what is this happening?
[00:20:33] Angela Lin: Oh my God. So bad. And it’s not even the acting is not great, but I got to say the script is not great.
[00:20:41] Angela Lin: So I would hope that in the future, there is a little bit of like a more globalization effort. If there’s going to be like inclusion of non-main language based, you know, conversation and stuff.
[00:20:56] Jesse Lin: Yeah the thing is like, they don’t really tell you much about the people like the rich people who are part of it.
[00:21:02] Jesse Lin: And so part for me, what was lacking there, and maybe they will clarify in future seasons. I heard that they got greenlit for season two, like it wasn’t clear and why it was shitty is like, what is the motivation? Because like part of it is spoiler alert is like, one of them is like, oh, we just got really bored.
[00:21:23] Jesse Lin: And we, this is like the way that we’re entertained now, but I was like, that’s it? Like, that seems like a shallow motivation, like most characters I feel like that are really great have motivation on like different levels. So that might’ve been like the surface motivation, but then like underneath that, I feel like there’s usually more it’s just like the old man that’s what he was saying. His surface motivation was, but then he participated in the games. There was like a lot of different layers to him, but these guys were just, it seemed so hokey because there was no, there was no depth.
[00:21:57] Angela Lin: I’m about to, I’m about to say something that may be controversial. Maybe not. I think.
[00:22:04] Angela Lin: The level at which these white people were thrown into this show is the same as which minority characters used to be, and still are somewhat thrown into Hollywood, mainstream Hollywood things where it’s like, it’s a stereotype that is very surface level. And it’s just like, can be associated with your race or social status or whatever.
[00:22:28] Angela Lin: And there’s not really a bother to develop that character further.
[00:22:33] Jesse Lin: Fair. That’s fair. I mean, but counterpoint is that there were also some non-white English speaking people as a part of the rich people.
[00:22:42] Angela Lin: There was a one Chinese dude, that’s it? They were all the rest of them were white.
[00:22:46] Jesse Lin: Oh really? Ok. Um, but I, yeah, but it’s kind of just, it seems like a big hole to me in the plot of the thing, because the, you have the players and then you have the sponsors, so it’s like a huge part of it that seems like they’re not, but you know, okay it might be developed in the future.
[00:23:04] Angela Lin: Maybe. And also maybe I don’t, I don’t think that bothers me as much because did you watch. Hostel? Okay. Um, there’s like, well, it was Hostel and Taken. They were kind of like homage, homage, homage elements to both of those, I think in this show, um, because there’s like the kind of like hunting humans aspect, which is from Hostel, Hostel, and then sec, oh, sex trafficking was Taken anyways.
[00:23:40] Angela Lin: Yeah. There isn’t that much additional plot development in Hostel and those kinds of movies, either for the people that are just rich and bored, that is generally kind of like the background and you accept it as such. And I think to the director and writers, you know, uh, credits, I think the point was to care about the actual players, not those people.
[00:24:05] Angela Lin: So it didn’t really matter. I was just the actual things they said were really hokey, like the script for the English part was not great.
[00:24:18] Jesse Lin: Yeah. It was basically your basic, like out of touch, rich person dialogue.
[00:24:27] Angela Lin: Ooh. Yes. You mentioned hotties.
[00:24:29] Jesse Lin: So many hotties. Oh my gosh. So I don’t know if you guys have watched Train to Busan, but the dad in Train to Busan.
[00:24:37] Jesse Lin: The like overworked absentee parent is the face slapper guy in the series. He looks so good. Train to Busan was like five, 10 years ago. He looks exactly the same.
[00:24:53] Angela Lin: Asian don’t raisin
[00:24:55] Jesse Lin: Plus all that k beauty secrets. But yeah. So I, I, one of the things that I thought was really interesting after this came out is like a lot of people were coming out being like, oh my God, I’m so attracted to X, Y, and Z on the cast.
[00:25:10] Jesse Lin: And it’s interesting because it’s a full Asian cast. I’ve never really seen that before. Even when Crazy Rich Asians came out, people were like, oh, it’s such a great film. Like, I love seeing the representation, but, and there was some like hottie stanning and stuff, like Constance and um, Henry Golding, but like, this is like, there is like extreme thirst for this man and some of the other people on the cast.
[00:25:31] Angela Lin: Especially for him being a fairly minor character compared to everyone else and being like latched on to as the daddy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I enjoyed that coming on the social media as well and seeing the obsession
[00:25:45] Jesse Lin: It’s like a little validating, because, because now you’re like, okay, like, yes, please. People see that Asians are hot. People see that Asians can be attractive. Like it’s not just that the entertainment is there, but now people are latching onto it um, fandom wise, the way that they do on like other shows where they, you know, develop their own fantasies about what’s happening.
[00:26:08] Angela Lin: I think it is hopeful because yeah. I mean, we’ve talked about representation a lot and our own issues with like attractiveness to Asian people growing up because of the way media and society kind of like portrayed what attractiveness was, which was basically just like really attractive white people was what attractiveness was.
[00:26:29] Angela Lin: But to your point now that like this kind of show comes out, blows up K dramas are also becoming like much more accepted outside of Korean and Asian people. Audiences. If you are bombarded with Asian male actors, Asian excellence over and over again on your screen and you opt in so that then it does normalize that Asian men can be attractive.
[00:26:56] Angela Lin: So I, yeah, this part I feel very good about. Yeah. I think the kind of like hidden subculture of this, that I’m a little wary of is like, yes, I’m all about like, non-Asian people finally seeing Asian men as attractive because they always have been, but I don’t know how much you’ve been, uh, in tune with this like Korea- boo phenomenon.
[00:27:21] Angela Lin: Okay. So, um, basically I think there was like varying definitions of Korea-boo but it first came about with like, K-pop stars and K dramas. So not it didn’t come about just because of the Squid Game, but essentially it’s like non Asian fan girls, essentially that like get really obsessive with Korean stars, um, to the point where they’re kind of like.
[00:27:49] Angela Lin: There’s like a fetishization type element to it where it’s not like, oh, I like genuinely appreciate this culture and like who this person is, but there’s this little kind of like a latching onto, just for the sake of like, I’m, I love all things, Korea and like Asian. And you’re an attractive man, which is like what we’ve always been kind of afraid of what the yellow fever type concept right? So I think that’s been a little weird and dicey because as I’ve seen social media really like, appreciate these hotties in Squid Game and whatever, there is this other conversation where it’s like, I think there’s a growing resentment a little bit among other people where it’s like, well, first you like said we were ugly and now you’re kind of like fetishizing us because you’re suddenly like bought in on all this like Korean stuff, that’s always been awesome. But you’re like now hopping on that bandwagon and being a little weird about it.
[00:28:50] Jesse Lin: Yeah. Oh my God so two things. So the first thing is, yeah, I agree that that’s super weird. Like when you, when you like something, because it’s now the popular zeitgeist, but you have no real reason to like it. So like for example, lots of gay people, like Azealia Banks. I don’t like Azealia Banks, like, I was like, why do people, why aren’t people supporting her? Like, she’s a little bit like nutso. And she said something like really problematic, like transphobic things in the past.
[00:29:17] Jesse Lin: And so I’m like, I’m not going to support her just because every other gay person is like interested in her, Um, the other thing I wanted to say about the casting is I think it, uh, it makes visible a different aspect of how Korean people appear then in K-pop because K-pop is so sanitized. Like it’s very, everyone’s very doll like they’re very beautiful, like very traditionally feminine looking. But in this film, like I feel like everything is very masculine. Like. Yeah. I’ll I’ll, you know, obviously we’re like killing people and stuff, but even like many of the key female figures, like they have, they’re very – they have like an enormous, like inner strength.
[00:30:00] Jesse Lin: And I found that was really interesting to see it. In fact, like some of the male characters were weaker, like morally weaker than, than the female characters. And so it was like a really great. Um, visualization of like how people look in reality, as opposed to this kind of, you know, it’s K-pop is so sanitized and cleaned up and like a very meticulously curated image.
[00:30:24] Jesse Lin: And this is like very raw.
[00:30:25] Angela Lin: Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I didn’t even think about this. So you were just talking about it, but like the gender norms and kind of like defying that was something I really enjoyed in the show because they did make a point to like, cause you were following the north Korean defector girl along the whole way.
[00:30:42] Angela Lin: And she definitely became one of the like crowd favorite characters on the show. And throughout the show, people just kept underestimating her. They kept trying to like actively keep her out, literally because she was a girl, like they would say, you know, we can’t afford to have a girl in this team. Like that kind of shit.
[00:30:59] Angela Lin: And then she always kinda like came out on top and like proved her way. And that, yeah, that’s rare. I think, especially in traditional Asian cultures too, are like very patriarchical patriarchial I don’t know. Y’all know what I’m saying anyways. Um, and I think I told you, but like when I lived in Japan, It’s like little things.
[00:31:22] Angela Lin: It’s just like, it’s more normal there that they kind of abide by like the traditional sense of like masculine versus feminine. Like they would, they would just assume that I wanted a pink thing because I’m a girl. Or like if Ramon and I ordered drinks and I got a beer and he got a wine, they would always try to put the wine in front of me.
[00:31:40] Angela Lin: Yeah. So it’s just like, it’s just more ingrained. Right? That’s, they’re more traditional in that sense. So I do enjoy that like a show coming out of Korea. Not a Korean-American like person creating it, still thought about the gender norms and like how to show strength in an unexpected way. Yeah.
[00:31:59] Jesse Lin: Yeah. I feel like part of the reason why, at least for me, I’m like attracted to some of the characters is that there is this realness aspect – I mean they’re acting, but there’s this realness aspect to it.
[00:32:10] Jesse Lin: It’s not a sanitized image. It’s like very raw. And so you’re like oooo, that’s juicy. That’s hot.
[00:32:18] Angela Lin: You know what, actually, this is a really interesting conversation because it also parallels just like how society has changed in terms of like, what kind of content we want to consume, because obviously like we’re trying to up our social media game right now.
[00:32:32] Angela Lin: And so I’ve been learning a lot more about like how things have changed or whatever. And one of the interesting things is that Instagram, we all remember when Instagram first. It was all super sanitized content, like beautiful model, like influencers only posting like their best selves and whatever, but especially now with like reels and TikTok becoming the more dominant form of content that people are posting the most popular content is actually when people are super real and they’re showing things like I’m struggling with my mental health or, you know, like sharing real things that people can actually like latch onto and like, oh, I see you in myself kind of thing. So I think that’s also translating into why it’s good game was interesting and attractive for people is it is like, oh, this isn’t just like some hokey romcom shit that like is not real life it makes me feel bad about my life. This is like, I see the flaws and these people, it’s just like, I see the flaws in myself and like, um, you can feel more deeply towards something because of that.
[00:33:38] Jesse Lin: I feel like, well, one thing that I maybe want to revisit is this like fan girling versus fetishization, you know, it’s like such a hard thing to determine what the fine line is. And, um, I feel like I’ve heard this before. I forgot who said it, but basically it’s like, um, the difference between sexual assault and attraction is that like you want it.
[00:34:00] Jesse Lin: So it’s like if someone gross came up too and they were like, ehh, like you know maybe touching you and you’re like, ehh, but if someone hot came up to you, you’d be like, okay yeah. So it’s like that kind of like fine, like that kind of thing for me is like, it’s so hard to tell because it’s so individualistic.
[00:34:19] Angela Lin: I agree. It’s a weird thing because essentially what you’re discovering is consent versus no consent.
[00:34:26] Jesse Lin: The difference between consent and sexual assault is…
[00:34:30] Angela Lin: I agree. It’s kind of funky. Um, yeah. Uh, that is interesting because I am seeing like the Korea-boo thing. I came across it on social media because I follow a lot of Asian creators because that’s kind of the space that we’re in as well.
[00:34:46] Angela Lin: And one like subset of popular TikTokers is essentially like attractive people who just may kind of like thirst trappy type content where they’re like shirtless and like kind of like winking at the camera and shit. Right? So those people have a lot of followers for obvious reasons. And some of those – not Korean – asian creators have called out the Korea-boos in their comments being like, bruh, this is gross. Like. Because I think their reaction is like, you are attracted to me just because now, because it’s like popular to like Asian people versus you actually like me. Um, and then I have also seen other thirst trappy Asian creators who kind of call that out as well, where it’s like. I saw one where the guy was like, uh, the comments said you’re attractive for an Asian or whatever. And usually that’s one of our most hated, like insults. Right? But this guy, his content was weird because he essentially was like, oh, like I’m into, you know, like, oh, I’ll show you how much more attractive I can be essentially. Like he was kind of like into it. And I’ll like, uh bruhh, so I think there, I agree because the fine line is like, if you want it or you don’t want it. And for other people who like have been rejected from like society and girls and men as well for not being what is considered attractive for so long and now with like the Korean wave, especially kind of bringing all of this Asian content to the forefront and changing people’s perception of what’s attractive. Some people are like, all, let me hop on this. Like, I don’t care if it’s a fetishization, like I’m finally getting attention for once. Like, I’m, I’m fine with that.
[00:36:38] Angela Lin: So it is kind of weird cause it, yeah, to each his own, I guess. I don’t know. Well, we talked a lot more than I thought we were going to about this topic, honestly. Um, so I think we’re going to the close – Fortune Cookie time, and we wanted to chat about if we think this more kind of like commodity commoditization, commodification, commodification of Asian content of, yeah Asian things in general, I guess, is good as we move forward.
[00:37:15] Jesse Lin: I think, you know, it’s such a tricky question because when we had, um, Leslie and Diana, they were giving us like the background of how K-pop became to be. And it’s commodification is like, it’s like at the root of why it exists. Right? Cause I think what one of them was telling us how the government invested in doing this to like bring this kind of culture and develop it. So on one hand, It’s hard for us to say, what’s good for the people there because they’re the ones that have decided to create this kind of cultural thing and sell it everywhere globally.
[00:37:54] Jesse Lin: But I think overall it’s a good thing, even, even though, even though we’re talking about things where it’s like, it may not be like a natural absorption of the culture yet. There’s like fetishization and this whole like, identify with the team, but I have no personal interest in the thing. But still that’s like exposure for people to broaden their minds a little bit with the things that they’re exposed to.
[00:38:19] Jesse Lin: And I think that that can really shift how people think about attraction or interest in different kinds of stories, um, and even interest in, in different cultures. So overall I think it is, it is a good thing that they’re are more pieces of content with differing perspectives coming from different cultures.
[00:38:40] Angela Lin: Yes. I agree. I think it’s a net positive. There are obviously some negatives that we’ve discussed, but I think with anything that requires progress to be made you, it is more realistic to have it come in steps as opposed to leaps, because I think I mean, outside of Squid Game, right? The current societal wave they’re in right now is a shift where there is more awareness of like the multiple pieces of diversity that exists in society and like how we’re all different, but have ways that, you know, we can come together and stuff like that, but it’s, it’s been bumpy, right? And like, it’s going to continue to be bumpy. There’s some improvements and strides have been made, but it’s not like, I think. What I disagree with is when people kind of have these lofty expectations where it’s going to be like a complete 180 tomorrow. And with that, and with this, with the Squid Game, like the commodification, uh, topic, I really don’t think it’s realistic to expect like a 180 where someone’s suddenly like never consumed any content that was not English- speaking is like, oh, All in on this stuff. And I’m going to take the time to like understand Korean culture and all the context that was behind the show and like really appreciate it. I think it’s not realistic to expect that overnight, but I totally agree with you. It’s like we’re making all these baby steps.
[00:40:07] Angela Lin: Like finely people find Asian men attractive, Hey, that’s a fucking huge win. It was a fucking huge win and it’s going to go from there. So, yeah. And I mean, hopefully in a nearish future while we’re still alive. At least I would hope that like, all content is quite globalized. Like we’re just all kind of like interchanging, the best shows and movies from everywhere and like truly appreciating kind of what’s going into each of those things.
[00:40:37] Angela Lin: Um, versus like for the longest time, US is the dominating thing.
[00:40:42] Jesse Lin: I was going to say there’s this idea that Western media is like the most far along or the most worthy or whatever. And I think despite all the problems with the current commodification, let’s say it puts everything in the same place, like the same footing in the free market.
[00:41:00] Jesse Lin: People can decide which things that they’re interested in because now you can’t really right? Because someone, a studio exec is deciding for you even before the content gets there. But now that they’re seeing there’s money behind the content, they may be more willing to greenlight the best project as opposed to the traditional project.
[00:41:18] Angela Lin: Yes. Oh, and or, yeah, American based studios just won’t necessarily be the most competitive in the future because I think to date it’s largely been a language thing in terms of like English is the most universal language in the world. So it is understandable that Western media from the states or other English speaking countries have a better chance at being more popular globally.
[00:41:49] Angela Lin: But now that people are willing to turn on a shitty dub or read the subtitles, the language is no longer the barrier. So it is free for all. Okay. Well, I had fun with this. Awesome. Well, uh, let us, what you knew or let us what you know, mer mer? Let us know what you think about Squid Game or this general kind of like wave towards globalization of content changing perceptions of attractiveness, everything that we talked about we’re interested…
[00:42:24] Jesse Lin: or if you have any other recommendations of similar shows we would like to know.
[00:42:29] Angela Lin: Yeah. If you’re like Squid Game sucks. There’s actually like a way better shows out there that I love, send them in. And we’ll, we’ll post that for other people as ,well, to get those recs, um, write us in at telluswhereyourefrom@gmail.com
[00:42:42] Jesse Lin: And as always come back next week for a fresh new episode.