Resolving identity crises as Asian-Americans

Episode 1 – Welcome to Our Identity Crises

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Full Transcript (Note: First 40 min only, transcribed via AI; may contain errors)

Angela Lin 0:09
Hello.

Jesse Lin 0:10
Hi there, we should introduce the podcast.

Angela Lin 0:14
Okay, well, this podcast is all about cultural identity and specifically, the identity of being an Asian American kind of stuck in the middle of not quite that Asian and not quite American enough. And kind of all the different topics and the struggles that could be interesting to talk about through the lens of having grown up being caught in both worlds,

Jesse Lin 0:44
I think that’s 100% on point. And I think we wanted to share this with you guys to showcase how we’ve traversed this very particular and unique identity as we’ve grown up

Angela Lin 0:59
cool All right, well, now you know what that says. But you don’t know who we are yet so we can do a quick introduction. My name is Angela Lin. I live in San Francisco 29. I work in Marketing. I think that’s it.

Jesse Lin 1:16
I’m Jesse. I live in New York. My ages I will never tell any of you. And I also worked in advertising.

Angela Lin 1:27
And Jesse didn’t mention this, but his last name is also Lin. And just so you know. Yeah, we might as well be related. I wish we were but we are not. Our relationship is that we’ve been pretty much best friends since we were like five years old. Oh, blood runs deep here. Okay, and then last thing about this intersection, and dress they already kind of mentioned partially why we wanted to start this podcast. Obviously, we want to just share our perspective of everything we’ve gone through and how we see the world based on, you know, the upbringing we’ve had and the influences we’ve had with being Asian American. But I think for me at least, there are definitely selfish reasons I wanted to start this podcast to starting any podcast is something I’ve been really interested in for a while and, but didn’t really want to take the leap and dare to do it. But then, you know, the world where it’s at right now we’re in the middle of this crazy Coronavirus porn scene. And it just felt like now or never like, what else are you doing? You might as well right? That’s exactly right. And the other reasons you really wanted to start this podcast besides boredom and sharing your perspective.

Jesse Lin 2:50
Yeah, I think it’s something really interesting to think about in terms of your identity and usually on your day to day, you don’t get it enough time to do this kind of introspection. So as you mentioned, now that we have a time I think it’s a really great exercise to try to get to understand ourselves better.

Angela Lin 3:10
Cool. Okay, I think that wraps up intro. Awesome. So, I think the only thing anyone’s talking about nowadays is the fucking Coronavirus. Yeah. So naturally, I think a good place to start is how are you holding up?

Jesse Lin 3:28
That’s a really good question. I think my mental health is slipping slightly because you know, I haven’t seen like another person in about a week. Yeah, like in real life, which is pretty crazy. And actually like a lot of companies and stuff shut down like this week or last week but I have been working from home since Friday, March the 6h and it is now March the 23rd. So I have been home by myself for quite a while. works. Yeah, with my cat and wine.

Angela Lin 4:03
Wait, like when did I start? I might have started around then I yeah, I feel like just to add on to yours. I have no sense of time anymore. Yeah, like every day every week started just to blend in together. Like I swear to god last week, when the weekend rolls around. I was like, wasn’t yesterday the weekend? There’s no delineation between weekday and weekend anymore.

Jesse Lin 4:30
Yeah, precisely. And especially since we’re all like working from home now. There’s like no separation of like anything. It’s just one long, endless Groundhog Day. Yeah, it’s driving me crazy.

Angela Lin 4:41
I’m in my PJs is just all day, every day weekend or weekday, whatever our day is. So that definitely doesn’t help with having separation between work and life.

Jesse Lin 4:52
Yeah, I mean, I still like get ready. I don’t get dressed up nicely anymore, but I do my face. I do my hair. I have these rituals that I have to stick to otherwise, it’s just like complete chaos.

Angela Lin 5:05
Well, God bless you, I can’t myself to do that. I like I think I told you this already, but I put on makeup and like wore a real shirt for the only time very Corona bullshit a week ago. And that’s only because we had a meeting with like the president of our company that, like I will never have another meeting with him again. I’m like, I should probably wear makeup, I guess.

Jesse Lin 5:29
Yeah, we’re both situated in like hotspot areas in the US in terms of the virus. So it’s like, no living vicariously through one another. We’re both like, Oh, just chewing our way through every piece of Netflix content available.

Angela Lin 5:46
Seriously. We’ll get to that later. Yeah, it’s honestly it kind of sucks because it’s such a drag because there’s no other news that’s really happening that matters. So Whenever you just open up like any social media or news it’s only about Coronavirus bullshit. Yeah, yeah. But like, also I feel drug addicted because I’m like, I get depressed by it and yet I’m like seeking out more information about Yeah,

Jesse Lin 6:17
I mean, I’m like constantly on it just looking for the first signs of it’s over and you know back to normal everyday I’m just like Google News refresh refresh refresh, show me about like Coronavirus over by May or June news because that’s all I’m looking for right now.

Angela Lin 6:35
Dude, I mean, I hope you’re right. Cuz you know, I’m trying to get married in August.

Jesse Lin 6:42
Oh my god. Yeah. I’ve just like such a far that’s like, really far away. But still with all this stuff. It’s like not that far away.

Angela Lin 6:52
It’s super depressing. I mean, I think you, you got the email that we sent to all. But it’s like, even though super far away August because there’s no end in sight to this thing it also you don’t know if it’s really that far away because if the virus doesn’t go away to like July or early August or whatever like that’s definitely gonna bleed into it but also I feel like there’s more likely a scenario where a virus dies down and may or so but people are just still paranoid and then a bunch of my guests just still don’t come because they’re paranoid which is

Jesse Lin 7:29
Yeah, so for those of you who don’t know this pitches getting married, Yes, she’s having a bad see event in Spain which is going to be amazing. So hopefully the Coronavirus goes away so we can all have a frickin Fiesta.

Angela Lin 7:47
Thanks, Jesse. Well, just to curb that back, I’m not a rich bitch or anything as thing as small. Less than 80 people and also Spain sounds glamorous, but it is cheaper to do your way abroad than it is in America, and also my fiance’s Spanish. So this is not just some whimsical bullshit.

Jesse Lin 8:07
All true things doesn’t make it less fabulous.

Angela Lin 8:10
That’s true. Thank you. Well, what else? What else have you, you know, what’s, what else is new? How was Juniper? What’s going on?

Jesse Lin 8:20
Yeah, so my cat is like the only person that I talked to every day. He’s gone really, really moody over the last few days, because I don’t feed him until specific times of the day. And he doesn’t like that. And he’s very vocal in his protests. The other day, he was very upset at me, and swatted my head while I was doing a workout. And his claws got stuck in my hair, which is now tied up in a bun like when I do actually stop because otherwise it’s like all over my face. And his pot got stuck in my hair. And I thought, y’all just For me, like, I’m done, the cat’s gonna claw me to death like, goodbye. How’d you end up freeing yourself? Thankfully, I just grabbed his paw and pulled it out of my hair. And he was nice enough to let me do that. But yes, this this is like kind of the most exciting social interactions that I have on the daily. Other than that, I’m mostly just trying to like cook new things. Honestly, this is like the most healthiest I’ve eaten for like an extended period of time for a while, because I’m just at home and I have time and so I can like actually cook stuff now. So I’ve just been doing like lots of healthy salads and like, basic proteins and veggies and fruits and stuff like that, which I think is good for me at least so I can at least come out of quarantine looking hot and fresh and healthy

Angela Lin 9:52
You will you will. Yeah, I feel like all of my friends have been saying the same thing. Like people who don’t usually cook like Karen, who is our Other best friend, 1 million years, she never cooks and now she’s cooking. She and her husband are cooking all the time because you have to.

Jesse Lin 10:10
Well, it’s also fun, right? Like, it’s nothing to do like you just pull up a recipe on all recipes or whatever. And you’re just like, Alright, cool. I’m gonna do this pitch tonight. Like, I have no idea how to cook this, but I’m gonna try it like, you have nothing else to do. Really?

Angela Lin 10:24
Yeah. cookbook recommendation that is not specifically tied to quarantine time. But Ramon and I’ve been moving heavily into the Morimoto, everyday Japanese cookbook that we bought, like, I don’t know, maybe six months or even more ago, because, okay, well, for the rest of you, Ramon and I lived in Japan for two months, I was able to convince my job back in the day to let me do a short rotation in Asia. And so we had that really unique experience but when we came back from eating all That amazing legit food in Japan and came back to the US for like, Hmm, maybe we should use cooking ourselves. So we’ve been cooking probably probably cook like 90% of the recipes in there and it’s all real good. So I would recommend it

Jesse Lin 11:18
cool. So for all the people listening SF Where do you get all of your cooking materials from?

Angela Lin 11:23
Ah, you mean like the ingredients and stuff? Yes, Nijiya. It’s the mean Japanese supermarket in Japan town and it has everything. That sounds amazing. Yeah, we go holy, like every two weeks. Awesome. thematic topic for today is how you define your identity, which is the you know, backbone of this podcast, but which is why we felt like we should start here. So Jesse, how do you define your identity?

Jesse Lin 11:58
Wow, that’s like a really difficult Question from the bat. I would say if someone stopped me on the street and asked me how I identify, I would tell them that my parents are from Taiwan. But I was born in California, and that I’m also gay. And I think those are probably like the most salient points of identity for me. Like if someone were to just be like, how do you identify? But I think that’s really tricky, because it’s something that I’ve never really thought about a lot of outside of those kind of pretty umbrella. ideas or terms for identity. Yeah, so that’s how I think about it from like, the very, very high level. What about you?

Angela Lin 12:47
I think that makes sense. And a lot of the same stuff for me, although I think I have like a different order of operations in my head, and then probably a few other things that are I naturally associate with my identity that I’m not sure I’m like, happy about doing so. For sure, or pieces my identity I always think about is American. I’m like, very proudly American. And I think for me Taiwanese because I’m also Taiwanese come secondary. I like it’s obviously a big part of my identity. But because we were both born in America, it just feels like this is this is my home country. And Taiwan is like a big part of who I am because it’s part of the DNA of my family, but it comes secondary for me. And then because I feel like as like, being a privileged, you know, heterosexual person. my sexuality doesn’t really come into play for me when I think of identity because for better for worse in some I’m just like the default normal, right? So it doesn’t come into play for me. The other piece of identity that unfortunately I, I’ve always thought about since we graduated college is like, my work being a big part of how I identify myself, which is probably pretty evident given that even in our introduction, like the three things I said one of them was like, um, it has something that I’ve been trying to get away from, especially in the last year, I think, since who I am shouldn’t be defined by what my job is. And yet I think, for me, it is a big part of how I define myself which I’m not happy about.

Jesse Lin 14:48
Well I think you brought up two really interesting points. I mean, the first is like how we were different in prioritizing our our identities and I will say that Also, like if you ask me what my nationality is, obviously, I’m from the United States. But a lot of the times the question about identity and particularly your ethnic identity prompts you to say that you know, I’m Taiwanese or I’m Chinese or I’m whatever versus over why you know, where you were born. And it’s interesting that you say that because I think that’s one of the one of the interesting things about identity is that like, you just find it yourself. But also other people to find it for you whether you want that or not.

Angela Lin 15:35
Totally, and actually, to that point, and this is a perfect tie into the title of our podcast but so the point of like, you, you making your own identity but sometimes you having to, like, adjust the way you answer based on how other people provoke you’re right like

Jesse Lin 15:56
So much girl.

Angela Lin 15:58
I wasn’t So aware of being Asian until I studied abroad in college. And Funny enough, I started abroad in Spain. But there it was like, every day I just got called like ching ching. This way without any conversation without first Yeah, I’m just like across the street being yelled at. So just like constantly reminded me what I was. And I distinctly remember being in a club or something because I was, you know, 20 years old, but being in a club and some I know, some guy came up to me and in Spanish, he asked me like, Where are you from? And I said, I was from New York, because at the time I had been living in New York for like, six yea rs, whatever. And he was like, No, where are you really from? Fuck you, man. I told you it was New York.

Jesse Lin 16:55
Yeah, that’s like one of the most like offensive and annoying questions ever hear from somebody like after you’ve already told them like, where you are from.

Angela Lin 17:06
Now getting into our upbringing, right and how that also affects our identities. I mean, I’ve had so many arguments with my parents, especially my mom about like, my my identity in terms of being American first. I want to use second because that’s how I that’s how I see it because I grew up in America. And like one of the funniest and most bizarre arguments we had one time was I referred to Irvine which is where Jesse and I are both from Burbank. You But yeah, I refer to Irvine as my hometown. And my mom got like really pissed at me and she was like, your hometown is Taipei, Taiwan. And I was like, What are you doing? I’m you. I’m not from Taipei, and she was like, she was so mad and very serious. And she was like your hometown is wherever your mom grew up or like, was born or whatever I’ll tell you about. So I was like, so when I have kids, their hometown will be Irvine, California. And she’s like, Yeah.

Jesse Lin 18:24
Wow. I did not expect her to concede to that point. I would’ve expected her to be like, it’s Taipei, Taiwan.

Angela Lin 18:33
Forever. I mean, she probably argue with me on that point when the time actually comes.

Jesse Lin 18:41
I mean, like, it’s, it’s so interesting, because in a way, we have different identities and they’re almost like different lives. We lead, in a sense, like we have an identity that we embody and portray for our parents in terms of like how we are as age But then we have our own kind of identity. And how we portray ourselves to everybody else in the world like this is this is who I am, and how I define myself. Versus like how our parents see our lives and where they envision our lives to go.

Angela Lin 19:19
Do you ever feel like though sometimes you can’t get across what you want to say to your parents, like, all the time, I tried to keep to you know, that way that we’re supposed to talk to her most time but like, when I’m getting really pissed at something they’re saying, and I can’t express it fully in Chinese I get it just like makes me so mad. And I like say it anyway in English and I. I know they don’t really understand what I’m saying. I just

Jesse Lin 19:49
yeah, it’s really hard though. Because like, there are some things that there’s no way that they could understand in the same manner like there are things about their life experience that we could never understand.

Angela Lin 19:59
Yeah, it’s funny because as we grow up, I’m like starting to see parts of my parents and myself, I realized and maybe the last honestly, like two weeks, maybe because I’m with remote now that like, I have a person that I’m talking to all the time and is hearing all my stories over and over and over again. But I’ll be like, Oh, how we told you about that time? And he’d be like, yes, even told me like, at times, and I can’t help but think that that’s exactly what my dad like. He tells the same story, the same like five stories 1 million times as if you’ve never heard them. So I randomly just thought about that. But the story I was going to tell about him, which is like, to the point of like, you know, we were just raised so differently and like had such different lives is whenever he either feels like we’re being kind of spoiled brats or privileged Or specifically in the context of when we’re eating up. And we kind of like, give him shit for like grabbing all the crab legs on a plate a bit. Always. He’ll always tell the same story about like, how poor he was growing up because both my parents are one of like five children. So they had a ton of siblings that their parents had to provide for and always tells me the story about like, when they were out there poorest they couldn’t afford to have him have anything else for lunch except for half of a boiled egg. So he like tell them all the time to guilt us to be like so deserved, or like, or like you don’t know how good you got it. Which is totally fair and true, but also goes to like how it’s so hard to relate because we that’s a whole different kind of life, you know?

Jesse Lin 21:58
Yeah. And honestly, so thing like, have you ever talked to your parents about like identity specifically, and like how they identify? Because, you know, one of the things that I think is difficult to talk to our parents about, at least for me, is that they don’t question their identity. Right? Like, like what you’re saying, like your mom was saying, like, you know, your Taiwanese from Taipei, Taiwan. They don’t have any, you know, second second guesses about where they’re from, like, where their roots are. They’re very, very, very clear on that. Versus like, where we stand. It’s not so clear, right? We have some we have some ethnic roots based off of where our parents are from, but like, we are pretty firmly grounded in the United States. And what all that entails.

Angela Lin 22:51
Yeah, I’ve I’ve never had that real conversation with my parents except when we argued about the hometown that but yeah, I agree, I don’t think they have a question at all in their minds. And part of that, I think is because they, you know, they grew up in one country, which happens to be the exact same country as their ethnic origin. Right. So that’s not that questionable for them. But I also think it has to do with just like, in general Asian culture and like society, in terms of, there’s this kind of like, I don’t really want to say the word obedience, but like, there is some, some feeling of like, you know, the way you’re supposed to act, based on what that society has taught you is is the right way to act and in a country’s in particular, right, it’s like, you don’t question your place in society, like you know, if you’re the man that like you were supposed to, like provide for the family. If you’re the woman you were going to raise the child at Least back. Yeah, like, Aaron’s day, right? So I feel like there’s also part of that because whenever I have had like harder conversations with my parents about, like, their relationship or like, you know, more serious topics, the answer I get back a lot is like, well, there’s no way that’s not even possible. Yeah. You know, like there’s there’s no choice. Yeah, it is just they know where they’re supposed to be the way they’re supposed job. And there’s no way to go. Yeah.

Jesse Lin 24:31
100% like there’s this feeling of conformity versus individuality.

Angela Lin 24:39
That’s a way better word. Yeah. Yes.

Jesse Lin 24:43
Active listening. Okay. Yeah, but I find that so interesting because part of why they came to America and why we’re here is kind of a pursuit, of individuality of separation from that conformity. To find something different. And for me, I feel like I’ve always struggled with that like tension. Because they want you to my parents want me to conform in some aspects, but be very exceptional or individualistic and other aspects. And it causes a lot of like, personal drama, because you’re like, trying to be your own person. But at the same time, like your parents don’t want to be, don’t want you to be that person in specific aspects of it. But they’re fine with other aspects of it. So it’s very, very confusing way to construct your identity growing up because some things are acceptable, and some things are not. But you never know what they are because they don’t talk about identity and they don’t talk about how identity isn’t constructed for them because it’s always been this this static like, non changing thing.

Angela Lin 25:52
Yes. All I could think of when you were saying that was like they want the best of both worlds. Yeah, like We’re the ones that live in the junk worlds. They’re not the one you

Jesse Lin 26:03
You want your cake and eat it too.

Angela Lin 26:06
You know, I’ve always got a problem with that. Because I don’t like why the fuck do you have a cake? If you’re not gonna eat it? Maybe it’s

Jesse Lin 26:14
okay, it’s a Birthday Cake.

Angela Lin 26:22
But yes.

Jesse Lin 26:24
But like, so how do you feel like that’s shaped how you have approached your life like this kind of tension that you carry with you throughout like the different formative periods of your life? What do you feel like? How do you feel like that’s like affected you?

Angela Lin 26:38
I feel like it’s affected me in that especially when I was growing up. So like high school, right? Like when you first start understanding what your personality is, like, growing in yourself. Yeah, and the most awkward part of your life and I feel like I had to fight my parents tooth and nail on everything that I will Wanted especially as as I was getting closer to leaving for college, right so like in sophomore or junior years when you start really thinking about college and start like getting into applications and whatever. And for me, I wanted to go down or really like untraditional route for an Asian kid which is I wanted to pursue something in the music business. So like, not me playing the violin on stage, you know, being the next yo yo ma or whatever. But like me wanting to work at a record label and like help promote artists, which is totally unheard of. That’s not what I do today. You know, it was a part of my life at some point, but like to get there. I felt like I had to justify myself all the time to my parents of like, how does how can this dream still make sense within the expectations that you have for me of like, there’s this just constant Underlying guilt of I brought you I like went through all the struggle to bring you to this country so that you could succeed and have a better life than I does so you better not fuck this up and so to like go after this so like seemingly like flittering dream that’s not going to make any money How was I going to make that lake sustainable and and something that could still fulfill the having a better life than Joe did checkmark that they needed. I think that was like the biggest milestone that I first came across of like, how that their upbringing of me shaped the way that I had to like carry myself in life which was just like learning to fight for what I want and make what I want a reality more more than ever, which I guess in retrospect is like a really good thing that they say you forced me to learn, right, which I didn’t plan for. But

Jesse Lin 29:04
yeah, like it drove you in a way to be more persistent in what you wanted. Because of all that kind of pressure and doubt about whether or not what you were looking for looking to do would be successful.

Angela Lin 29:19
Yeah, how about you?

Jesse Lin 29:20
I definitely feel the same way. I think it was also, you know, like, I think my parents had a lot of academic expectations for me. And a lot of the times, it would be very difficult because, to be honest, like, there was nothing that I was particularly interested in, in high school. And then when it comes to the whole, like, acceptable success, like what your parents think is acceptable for you, I also had the same experience kind of going to college. side. No, I did follow Angela to New York to go to NYU, but I made this decision all by myself. So no shade there. Um, but yeah, like, you know, it’s so funny because I felt like I worked my ass off through high school like I did a bunch of AP classes, I did extracurriculars. I really was like pedal to the metal trying to get to the colleges that I want to get into. And one of the colleges I want to get into was near University and then kind of, at the end of the process, when I got the letter, I was like, so happy and excited. And part of that was kind of temporary, because like, I knew my parents weren’t as excited because they wanted me to stay close to home and go to a local university. And this is like one of those interesting tensions because for me, I wouldn’t have had to work so hard to get into local university, right, I could have kind of just used and made it. So it was one of those situations where it’s like, you’re aiming for like the highest highest highest level of success, but they kind of wanted me to Just kind of settle with what was what was there? What was the plan? And obviously like you, I came to the same conclusion. I was like, fuck it. I’m not gonna settle like I just worked my butt off to get to the school that I really wanted to go to. I’m gonna go there.

Angela Lin 31:16
Yeah, I think you and I are very similar which is like no surprise that we’ve had some similar milestones like yeah I’ve remained friends for so long but I I’m sure this is something that a lot of Asian American people have dealt with which is like finding your place amongst the heavy expectations that your your parents have set for you.

Jesse Lin 31:44
Yeah 100% I you know what? We’re like talking about high school and stuff like how do you feel like you have changed like how your identity has changed since like high school, college, where you’re at now

Angela Lin 31:57
girl tell me about it

Jesse Lin 32:01
I cannot. Tell me about the emo phase the bangs. Eyeliner everything.

Angela Lin 32:05
I don’t have to tell you, you lived through it with me. We have so many MySpace photos that I wish could be burned forever. You’re on the internet for life, unfortunately. Um, yeah. Okay, well high school high school in and of itself. I think I went through like three different phases of my ID coming into high school and Okay, backtracking even further middle school I was like, That was when I had I would say my like deepest Asian pride phase where I was like,

Jesse Lin 32:39
Oh my god, yes, I remember. You watched like Meteor Garden and you wrote stuff in Chinese.

Angela Lin 32:51
So I was like super Asian and middle school and then I was transitioning out of that into high school because of the four high schools and Irvine I went to the widest High School. So I think that definitely played into how I wanted to, like be perceived by people, which is like, Oh, I was just like super Asian all the time, but I’m at this really white school, I shook my turn, tone that down, right? Like when you’re 14, and you’re just like, you want everyone to like you, you’re not gonna be true to yourself, like, how do I adapt so that I can like, be as likable as possible? So that was like the beginning. And then when I started when I discovered music, and I thought I wanted to get into the music business for the first time, I was like, 15, which, you know, go me, but I was even, like, thinking about a career when I was 15. But

Jesse Lin 33:44
I did not even know that was like a career option when I was 15. So like

Angela Lin 33:51
tbh I didn’t either and felt that. I don’t know if you remember this or you did this as well, but our career counselors in high school gave us this like Thick ass book that was thicker than a phone book that was like every potential career you could have in your life and there was like one sentence dedicated to like music business and like yes this is it but anyways that’s when I went to my emo Phase I was like we’re all black which I don’t think is really indicative because if you live in New York all your wardrobes black anyway but we’re all black had like heavy eyeliner had really crazy hair with like 50,000 layers in it and went to all the barrel the band. Yes, that was a fun phase. And then I became I went totally opposite in senior year and went super preppy. Like, sorry, preppy is not I don’t know if it’s preppy, but I went like really deep on american apparel and was like trying to I remember that. go that route. Yeah. And then college was just a clusterfuck all round man. I don’t think that knew who I was at any point in college until maybe the last stretch of college.

Jesse Lin 35:07
I feel you like do I know who I am now? I don’t know. I don’t know.

Angela Lin 35:13
Even now?

Jesse Lin 35:14
It’s clearer. But it’s like a Monet it looks nice from far away. And then you get closer to like this just a bunch of weird colors like dotted together.

Angela Lin 35:26
That’s fair. That’s fair. I Yeah, I definitely don’t have all my shit together now either, but I feel like I’m way more secure in myself now. Then. I was growing up or even through like my early 20s God Damn, that was that was like, blurry.

Jesse Lin 35:50
We’re still in our 20s

Angela Lin 35:52
Okay, well, I’m sorry. What is it March. I’m four months away from being 30. So I’m sorry. Barely. But But early 20s Yeah, early 20s. Like you had no idea what you’re doing. Yeah.

Jesse Lin 36:11
For sure.

Angela Lin 36:13
Well, speaking of younger times, now that you have a better sense of self, if you could be in the same room as baby boy, Jesse, like, middle school freshman year, high school, Jessie, like, doesn’t know who the eff he is or what to think of. So, what advice would you give him about, like feeling? finding himself and feeling more secure and and who he is?

Jesse Lin 36:43
Yeah, I mean, like I just said, I still don’t really necessarily know who I am. But I think that as I’ve gotten older, I’ve just gotten more comfortable with that unknown. And I think you can never really figure out who you are like, there’s always gonna be parts of you who are like, why did I do that? Or why they say that? Why do I think these things? So I think the advice that I would give to my younger self is just be more comfortable with the fact that there are going to be parts of you that you don’t understand and that you don’t need to necessarily conform to like, one shape, or group or weigh. There was like a lot of struggle, like I struggled a lot to try to like place myself. And I think my advice to my younger self would be don’t do that. Like, because you you don’t necessarily know like, where you feel one day versus the other. Like, just try to enjoy the the best parts of each identity, the best that you can

Jesse Lin 37:40
What about yourself?

Angela Lin 37:42
Yeah, it’s something I’ve been reflecting a lot on recently, too, because I’m like you’re saying I’m also still trying to figure out my life. But a big part, but a big part. That’s, like probably my biggest question mark is more like career piling on what’s going to bring me joy in the long term there. But as I was reflecting on that, one of the things that came up a lot was like how much I value? what other people think of me, which like I shouldn’t. Like, who cares? So I think my biggest piece of advice to myself back then it’s like, no one else knows who they are either. Yeah, like, stop too hard to impress them because, like, they’re not better than you. You know, I mean, like, everyone’s in their own little clusterfuck Yeah, we’re all that like, separate hairs. And you know, you’ll figure it out they’re figuring it out.

Jesse Lin 38:37
Yeah, it’s hard because you never see it right. Like everyone projects like the best version of themselves to the world. And so you’re like looking over there and be like, That bitch is doing so good right now. What the fuck? But yeah, like you said, in reality, everybody is going through probably some really serious struggles about like, who they are, how they feel what they’re doing.

Angela Lin 38:58
Mm hmm. Yeah. That reminds me because like, a really easy like default part of me that I fall back to, which I’m trying to curb now is like, being super judgmental of people because it’s so easy to be judgy right of people, but something that I have been trying to take more to her recently is like the saying of you know, like, you, no one knows what’s going on and in someone else’s life except that person, right. So like, have a little bit more empathy there. Right. So, so to that end, like whether that’s a real positive way of looking at someone’s life or a negative way, like, you have no idea what’s happening under the hood. So, so don’t make assumptions. Yeah, you know,

Jesse Lin 39:46
no, I agree. Although I reserve the right to be petty and judgmental.

Angela Lin 39:51
No, I didn’t say I’m not petty and judgmental. I said, I’m trying to be less. Okay. Thinking about your identity. What’s the biggest thing that’s shaped your sense of who you are. So not to be like a big stereotype,