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The Consequences of Racism in the Asian Community


Angela Lin 0:19
Today we have a special guest, Sophia Bailey, the founder of the More Than Yellow blog, Sophia, hey, welcome.

Sophia 0:28
Hi, thanks for having me.

Angela Lin 0:30
Of course. Feel free to introduce yourself however you want. And also lump in your answer to our signature intro question, “but where are you really from?”


Full Transcript (Note: Transcribed via AI, may contain errors)


Sophia 0:44
So my name is Sophia. I’m currently living in the San Francisco Bay Area for about six years now. I am the founder of More Than Yellow, which is a community dedicated to inspiring, empowering and amplifying Asian American voices. And to answer your question of where I’m really from, I was born in Iowa in the Midwest, but I always, you know, answer that with I’m Chinese American.

Angela Lin 1:10
So tell us a little bit more about how you got started with the blog and like what inspired you to to create that kind of community.

Jesse Lin 1:19
I, like I said, grew up in the Midwest, there was not a lot of faces that looked like mine. And I feel like really at the time, like, even with media, too, there was not a lot of representation, anyone that I could relate to. So at a young age, I’ve always felt like ostracized, you know, from my classmates, and just even looking around in my town. And I, you know, dealt with a lot of, like microaggressions and racism as I got older, living in such a small town that wasn’t diverse. So what really drove me to do this blog was just right now we have so much technology, and social media is such a powerful tool. It really helps you connect with people that you otherwise wouldn’t have. So I just really wanted to be kind of a voice. And just an inspiration to someone out there that you know, is facing these similar challenges that I had, whether it’s like cultural stigmas, or racism, you know, complicated family dynamics, because we know how complicated that could be in the Asian community. I just really wanted to help someone out there by creating this community.

And when did you actually start the vlog and was there like a moment where you were like I need to act like I need to do this, like an experience or something or was just something that you were thinking about doing for a while.

Sophia 3:23
So I actually thought about doing this for a couple years now. But it wasn’t until October of 2020, where actually I finally just, you know, sat down and said, okay, I’m gonna do this. And really the reason why was because I feel like it was just that perfect time. Racism because of COVID has really been affecting the Asian American community. And I feel like that is just something that needs to be addressed more. And along with that. Just having more free time, because of the pandemic, I was able to really just sit down and finally, you know, launch this blog in this community. And then the third driving factor was actually my therapist. So I struggled with anxiety for a while now, I didn’t know what it was when I was younger, of course, but it wasn’t until this pandemic, which really just made me realize that I you know, have mental health issues that I do need to address and that it’s okay that, you know, I need to seek professional help. So I started going to seeing a therapist, and my therapist asked me, you know, because I told her how I wanted to be more involved in the community and like ways to just make the world a better place, essentially. And she really helped me drive this force for me to start doing this.

Angela Lin 4:39
Let’s uh, let’s bookmark the things happening right now because I think there’s a lot we can talk about. Yeah. But I do want to circle back since you’ve mentioned it now a few times just the the childhood that you had and like the way the environment you were raised in because I think Jesse and I have talked about our experiences growing up or like we grew up on the west coast and now you live here. So you also see, you know, it’s it’s more diverse, certainly than what it’s like you were around when you’re growing up. So like, the racism that we have experienced is like more than microaggression-ey type, you know, realm. But it sounds like yours was like a different extreme. And I’m just curious what like, what was that experience like being one of the only I guess I don’t know how many Asians or were in your communities sounds like a small town?

Sophia 5:28
Yeah, it was a pretty small town. It was literally like me, and maybe three or four other families in the whole city. I guess growing up, I always knew I was a little bit different. No one had to point it out to me. So my dad actually grew up in Taiwan. My mom she, yeah. And my mom, she grew up in South Korea, but our blood is Chinese. Yeah. So when my, my mom’s family immigrated to the US, they came to Iowa, because they had a family member that sponsored them to go there. So that’s kind of how they landed there. And then, like me growing up, like, I always knew I was different. And it wasn’t until you know, like starting school and having kids say things or, you know, joke around saying like, oh, your parents own a Chinese restaurant? Do you guys serve dog and cat? And, you know, I didn’t know how to answer that, you know, I was just like, no, we don’t, like, we serve food, just like, you know, regular food duty. But just, you know, different flavors. But, you know, it definitely grew and became worse as I grew older. And, you know, people would like pull back their eyelids and say, oh, ching, chang chong, and all of those things. And I didn’t hear slurs until I got older, especially when I was in high school and college. And that’s when it became really bad for me. And when I really knew like, you know, racism is an issue that affects, you know, a lot of people and in different regions of, you know, the, not only the US, but the world as well. And yeah, like lots of experiences there with being called a chink. And not feeling like I was strong enough to say anything, or stand up and fight back for myself, just because I didn’t have a lot of people around me that would understand my story. And that would be an ally to me, as well. So there was a point in my time where when I was in college, I was afraid to go out because it was becoming like, every weekend where someone would say something to me, or making a racist joke, or, you know, whatever so it really affected me. But I did also want to like, share that my parents did face racism themselves as well, especially owning the Chinese restaurant. I never really talked about it with my parents. But I remember one time I did, you know, mentioned to my mom that this is something that I was facing. And then my mom shared with me that she had a racist experience working in the restaurant, and how this white man came in and ordered something, my mom actually got the order wrong, because they were super busy and swamped. And then when she brought out the wrong order, he just started yelling at her calling her slurs, telling her to go back to China, and that Chinese people are stupid and learn English and this and that. And then he just started like going on and on. And my mom just didn’t know what to say, you know? And she was just like, I’m sorry, I’m sorry. Like, no, like, here’s your order. And like, we’ll get it right for you. And that always stuck with me, you know, because I feel like sometimes when we’re facing these struggles, like we don’t really take into account like our parents face the same things as well. Yeah. So coming here and how I landed in the Bay Area was almost like a reverse culture shock. Because when I came here, I was like, wow, everyone looks like me, like I don’t stand out here I blend in for once in my life. So my experiences there have all like really helped shaped me to be who I am, and having empathy for others that are going through the same thing.

Jesse Lin 9:06
So I wanted to ask because a huge part of us during this podcast is like resolving our Asian identities. And I kind of feel like we came at it from a place where we’re like, we feel solidly American, but your experience as like, an American person is pretty traumatizing. So like, how are you? Like, are you resolving both of these at the same time? Like, do you feel American being that you were so ostracized, even as a person who grew up here?

Sophia 9:32
Yeah, I always struggled with that. It was always this balance of like, I want it to fit in and be enough for each side or each party. Growing up, you know, I’m not proud to say but I feel like I really did whitewash myself because I was ashamed of being who I was. I wanted to fit in I wanted to sit with the popular kids. I wanted everyone to love me and you know, not see me as oh, she’s the Chinese girl. So I would you know, unfortunately, would whitewash myself, I would bleach my hair and try to tan my skin all the time, because that’s what my friends would do, they’d go to the tanning salon, and just anything I could do, you know, to try to distance myself further from being Chinese. And that turning point for me, when I realized that I should stop doing that, and just embracing my culture wasn’t until I was in college, when I started facing more of that racism, and actually meeting more friends. In college, it was a little more diverse there for me. So meeting just other Asian friends and hearing that they’ve gone through similar things. And that, you know, they invited me to parties, they call them Asian parties, because there was lots of Asian people there. And that was my first time ever being surrounded with so many faces that, you know, looks like mine. And that’s when I really started to think like, why am I trying to, you know, whitewash myself? Why am I so ashamed of who I am, like, I should be proud. Just like my parents said, I should be fiercely Chinese, you know. So that’s the turning point for me, when I started standing up more when I started just being more comfortable with who I am. And, you know, learning my language again, because when I was younger, I was like, I just want to learn English. That’s what everyone else speaks at school, you know, I don’t need to learn Mandarin. That’s not important. I really wish I would have learned Mandarin, you know. And I feel like just anything I can do now to just really embrace that side, is really important to me, because it’s never too late to embrace your culture.

Jesse Lin 11:26
We wanted to talk about like, given that you have this community that you’re running, and you cover a lot of different topics within this space. What do you feel like is the most pressing issue that that our community is facing right now? Is it just the bringing awareness about like, you know, the subtle, subtle racism and how that is, you know, translated and embedded in the way people have acted towards us for forever, up until now? Or do you think there’s a specific issue? I have my own opinion about that, given just the latest news cycle, but I’m curious what your thoughts are.

Sophia 12:10
So I think with a lot of these attacks that have been happening, because of COVID. And Asian people are getting blamed for that, no matter where we’re from, what we look like, doesn’t matter to them. We’re getting attacked just because of how we look. And recently, there’s been like a huge surge in elderly attacks. Like the one in San Francisco, where the Thai grandfather passed away. The few in Oakland, where people, elderly people are getting pushed out. It’s super heartbreaking to see and it’s frustrating, because I feel like, this isn’t anything new. Racism has been around for a while. But I feel like Asian racism specifically isn’t something that, like there isn’t enough light shed on it. No one’s really talking about it as much as they should be. And, again, I feel like it is because of the language barrier. Just kind of our culture of just keep your head down, just, you know, continue to just work hard focus on yourself, like, you don’t need to, like make a scene or anything. I feel like that is something that we need to overcome as a community as well. We shouldn’t continue to sit here and take it and you know, be afraid of speaking up. Our feelings are valid of everything, all the pain and struggles that are happening right now.

Jesse Lin 13:39
I feel like because Jesse and I talked about the anti Asian racism right when it started. That was when we covered it on our podcast. And we said this them, but I think it’s ever like it’s even more obvious now. Because of the most recent incidents with the elderly getting attacked. It’s just like, there’s this maybe it is a recognition that like young people within the community like us, we are starting to get louder, and we are starting to stand up for ourselves and like make it known that it’s not okay to treat us like this. And so where there’s still frustration left and people who want to emit those kinds of feelings, they’re going after the easy targets of these older generations that aren’t used to fending having to stand up and like fight for themselves and like frankly fought enough, you know, like to just like make life happen for themselves in this country. So they thought they earned their place in like a peaceful environment. And then now they’re just being like senselessly attacked because attackers know that like they’re unlikely to fight back. They maybe there’s still a language barrier and they won’t know how to like report to the police. And it’s it’s like easier than trying to pick a fight with someone like us, we’re younger, and we’re gonna fight back and we’re gonna rally behind what, whatever just happened, you know, to us. So it’s really frustrating for me to see that was definitely what I was gonna bring in was just all the elderly cases going on right now. Like, yeah

I’m curious as you’re someone who grew up in the Midwest, like those people who are throwing microaggressions, or slurs at you, like, where do you think that’s coming from? And why do you think it has persisted? Because I feel like there were there was a while honestly, where I personally lived in this, I guess you could call it a bubble, where like, I kind of felt like I was invisible because of my race. And because of that, like, I can kind of like slip in and out, like wherever I want, people aren’t really paying attention. But that kind of bubble has, like, disappeared, with all this news and realization of what’s happening, like attacks on Asian people. So I’m curious as to like, where you think, if you have an opinion, where you’ve seen like, where this kind of deep seated hatred or racism or like leftover grossness is coming from.

Sophia 16:12
It’s taught, you know, kids aren’t born, knowing race and knowing, you know, stereotypes and racism, and all of these things. So I feel like it’s definitely been taught, whether it’s by their family or hearing it on playground from other friends. It’s definitely something that’s been taught, and I feel like I don’t want to get like super like political and everything here, either. But like, for president with Trump as well, I feel like he just really heightened it and gave a lot of these, like, not only white supremacists, but people that have racist ideals in general, like a platform by calling this China virus and Wu Han virus and kung flu and all of these things, I feel like really heightened a lot of these attacks on our Asian community.

Jesse Lin 16:58
Yeah, that’s something that’s really frustrated me about this time is, I think every politician Trump and others need to think about, like the platform that they have, and the way that their audience is going to interpret what they’re saying, because I personally don’t think Trump really had any, like, let’s go attack all the Chinese people intent when he calls it those things. I think he’s trying to make a show of force against China, because he has this whole, you know, beef with China. And he just wants to like, release blame from himself, right? But he’s not trying to actually incite racist attacks towards Chinese people. However, he’s being irresponsible and calling it those things, because his base will take liberties to interpret that the way they want to. And unfortunately, the way that it’s been interpreted very frequently is like, oh, this is a Chinese people or Asian people more broadly. thing, and like, it’s their fault. And I’m not even gonna associate it with China, the country where this virus came from, I’m just gonna associate it with anyone who like looks Asian, because I’ve been given this liberty based on the way that it’s being spoken about to the masses. So that’s been really frustrating oo me it’s just like, no one’s really thinking about the implications of the way that other people are going to take their words, even if their initial intent isn’t necessarily wasn’t meant to be that way.

Sophia 18:32
Yeah, I think it’s all scapegoating. You know, it’s easy to just blame everything that’s happening in the world right now, to Chinese people. But more broadly, as you were saying, any person that looks Asian, and it’s frustrating, because, you know, I’m missing my family, I miss going out and seeing my friends I miss, you know, traveling all of those things, too. Like, we all want the same thing we all want, you know, the country to really come together again, sorry, I’m getting emotional. I just feel like it’s so frustrating to continue having to prove ourselves, continue having to prove that, you know, we are people, we are Americans, like I’m an American, you’re an American, we all want the same thing. We’re all on the same side, like stop attacking us stop scapegoating us,

Angela Lin 19:18
You mentioned previously, like what we have to do now to make progress towards the situation, making it better. And I do think it’s something that we should talk about, because we’re stuck in this predicament, or, you know, these types of attacks. And these types of sentiments keep becoming more and more prevalent, and what is it that we can do to do something about it right, or what needs to change? And I feel like, from my perspective, it’s a couple of things. One is I think you mentioned already is like the Asian community has to rally together now. And I’m on clubhouse. I don’t really love it that much, but there’s this whole anyways, yesterday Daniel Dae Kim and Daniel Wu had a talk where they tried to like band together around the stuff happening with the elderly, essentially. And like, what can we do with it? And I feel like one of the key takeaways they mentioned, too, was just like, you know, these attacks are happening, like you said, regardless of if you’re, actually Chinese, you can be Korean, you can be Filipino. They don’t care, because they’re just like, you’re just all Asian, you’re one thing. But traditionally, our communities have not seen ourselves necessarily as one community, especially when you go beyond our young generation, like the elderly certainly are not like I’m, if I’m Vietnamese, I don’t really think I’m the same as like a Korean, you know, Grandma, you know, it’s not, there’s no tie there. And this is a time where we do have to band together, because if they’re going to see us as one thing and attack us, you know, universally as one thing that we need to all come together as one strong movement to dispel this type of hatred. So that was definitely one big takeaway that I like resonates really strongly with me. The other thing that I think is like, very sticky and I’m curious what your thoughts are on this is just like, it’s not just white people, it’s other minorities that are saying awful things and committing some of these attacks. And I think another layer of like banding together of communities that needs to happen is broadly amongst the like POC, BIPOC, whatever you want to call it, like the, the non white people, like we all need to start coming together. Because if you’re not white, you’re all in a different category. Yeah, I think the model minority really, like hurts us to where we’re trying to, like, create caste systems within the rejected group. But like, instead of doing that, we need to just all realize like, hey, there is no like rank order amongst rejected, like, we are all not the, you know, majority society. So like, what are we going to do to make us all stronger, instead of like, taking out the outrage against not being accepted by other people by hurting each other instead? Like, when are we going to, When is that going to happen when we’re like, all actually coming together, and not taking it out on each other, that’s just, it’s been very frustrating for me to see that it’s, you know, a lot of other minorities, too, that are committing a lot of these things against our community.

Sophia 22:26
That’s a really important point. It’s almost as if people feel like they need to pick sides or teams, you know, it shouldn’t be like you versus me, it should be us against the system that hurts all people of color, you know, and I feel like, this is the time where a lot of pain, a lot of struggles, like we’re feeling a lot of fear as well. And when that happens, I feel like we divide and we aren’t thinking in a larger picture of, we’re all experiencing, you know, maybe struggles that aren’t the same, necessarily, but the struggles that we do face should give us empathy to continue fighting for, you know, justice and equality for others as well. I think that’s just something that has been really frustrating for me, as well as to see everyone just starting to blame. And, you know, seeing the race of these attackers, and people are just going, you know, on, like a comedy like hate spree, basically, and just spewing out racist stereotypes, and generalizing a whole community, based on this one terrible person that attacked the elderly, or whatever the situation is, you know, there’s been a lot of racial tension, especially between the Asian and black community. There’s been so much history behind that as well. Like, we need to realize that, for us to all move on together, like we have to come together. We can’t fight hate with hate, we can’t continue to divide. In the end, it doesn’t help anyone, you know.

Jesse Lin 23:54
Yeah, you, you can feel anger, you can feel sadness, you can be upset. You can be all the things that you should be from seeing news like that, right, like, but I think it’s really important to separate those emotions from blame. Because that’s when we start moving down that sticky road that you guys are both talking about, where instead of using this as a way to bring our communities together and say like, how do we fix this? How do we improve? We’re just casting shade against other people blaming them for other problems, and I don’t think that’s a conducive use of anyone’s time.

Angela Lin 24:29
One thing that was frustrating to me listening on the Daniel Dae Kim Daniel Wu talk yesterday, it was like, kind of similar to us right now. Right? We have a lot of anger and you know, frustration around what’s happening. And there’s certainly there’s this discussion of like, we as an Asian community, we as broader people of color communities we have to come together. But I guess something that was like missing and I ended up dropping out of that call because I was like, man, I was going nowhere is like what is the tangible next step that can be done specifically, I guess the issue was around the elderly, you know, attacks that are happening. But like, I guess we could speak broadly to is just like, besides this, like, general idea of like coming together, what does that mean I guess? You know, what, what can we be doing to actually make that happen? It’s an open question. I mean, I don’t know that I clearly have the answer, either. It’s just like a frustrating point to me that it was hard to find, like a tangible next up from their conversation. So.

Sophia 25:31
Yeah, I agree. And I don’t think it’s going to happen right away, either, you know, I feel like this is going to take time. We’re also just processing it, you know, and just, it’s been very emotional. And I think once we are, you know, at the end of this processing time, like, we can start to have more rationale, as far as what to actually do next. Like you said, like, there needs to be tangible steps, we can’t just say, let’s come together, Kumbaya, call it a day, and everything’s gonna go away. I wish, you know, the world is like that, but it’s not. And I think just raising awareness is highly important. A lot of my friends who are non Asian didn’t even realize that these attacks are happening, because the mainstream media isn’t covering it. And I feel like that’s just so important for us to keep doing is just shedding light on these attacks, and on what’s happening with the Asian community, and just really, you know, making our voices louder.

Angela Lin 26:27
Now, that’s a really good point. Because I feel like especially in pandemic life, right like before this, so those that are listening, we’re recording this on Super Bowl Sunday, and like, we didn’t know it was the Super Bowl today. But during pandemic times, you really can, like, become very involved in your own little like bubble of news that you choose to opt into, right, because we don’t have the other social circles that we’re usually exposed to when we’re in the outside world to like, get exposure to headlines or other things that are happening that you don’t opt in on. And so now because you know, the group on this call right now, we’re very in tune with the Asian community and what’s going on there. We all know what’s happening. And like, I’m being fed all these headlines all the time, but to your point, it’s not being covered by mainstream news outlets. And that’s a very good point that just by like speaking about it, and just like be speaking about our outside of our own, like community, too, because that’s where we do need ally ship, it’s really annoying to like, think about that. We need other people of color, and also white people to be our allies here, because they’re the ones that control mainstream and like, who gets the attention in front of all of America, and not just our little sub segment that is already concerned and can only do so much.

Jesse Lin 27:52
I also wanted to mention, I read somewhere that there was already some somebody in the local community that was like starting a group, basically, for people to volunteer to walk with someone elderly, they’re normally walking by themselves. So I think there are a lot of things that people are doing of their own accord to try to resolve the issue and where the coming together happens, I think is when people respond to those efforts, right? Like, because like, what I’ve seen for like mutual aid groups here in New York during this time is that like, someone sounds the call, and then the community comes to fill that need. And I think that’s where you see that coming together happening because the community is people of different colors, races, economic background, trying to pitch in to help resolve this issue. So I don’t think there’s like a concrete like checklist. But I do think that there are people like taking action. And it just takes that like one person to sound the call. And there are people who are like us, we’re kind of like, well, what do we do? Like, how can we help to fill that call.

Sophia 28:56
But I think that’s a really good point that you made as well, Jesse, was that there are lots of local groups happening. Lots of fundraisers happening as well. I’m not sure if you saw, but there’s a fundraiser a GoFundMe happening for how to report hate crimes. It’s printed in different languages so that our elderly that aren’t tech savvy, can access these books, and have these as a resource and if they are being attacked, know exactly how to report these hate crimes. So that’s something great that Esther Lin was the one organizing that. And that was just great to see that our communities, you know, coming together and finding actionable ways to take action and bring justice to these attacks that are happening.

Angela Lin 29:42
Is that happening nationwide, or is that like Bay Area specific?

Sophia 29:47
Yes, the booklets I think she’s translated into Korean, Japanese, Chinese and Thai and working on other languages as well. I think currently these books are only with in the Bay Area, LA, and New York City region. But I believe she’s also working on other areas as well, because this is happening everywhere. We’re just not hearing about it as often because of like we said earlier, the media is just not covering it.

Angela Lin 30:15
How do we find this for people listening?

Sophia 30:18
Yeah, yeah, so it’s in, actually my Instagram bio, for @morethanyellowblog, um, they can go there and donate directly to the GoFundMe. Or they can find it on Esther Lin’s page as well.

Angela Lin 30:31
Okay, maybe let’s, let’s bring it up a little lighter. So since you’ve started your blog, sounds like you’ve had a lot of positive feedback and communication with others in the community. What’s something positive, you’ve learned about our community through the efforts that you’ve done so far?

Sophia 30:50
I feel like just getting the comments that people feel seen and heard has just been the most, I guess rewarding and humbling experience for me. Sharing my story wasn’t easy. It’s it’s very vulnerable for me, but knowing that I’ve made an impact that way. And it’s great too, because I actually had someone reach out who is a British Born Chinese person. And they reached out saying that they could also relate to my story as well, even though I’m an Asian American, but they, they can relate as well. So I guess just connecting people worldwide with not only my stories, but the other stories that the community is sharing on the blog has just been a really eye opening experience. I am just so emotional, and overwhelmed. Seeing the Asian community really rising up right now, taking action and just spreading awareness of what’s going on. I’m really proud of that. I never thought my little Sophia, you know, only Chinese girls are one of the only in her town would have never thought that this would have happened. And just seeing how far we’ve come has just been, I guess, just like a really rewarding time to be alive.

Angela Lin 32:06
All right, keeping the positive vibes. Let’s roll into our closing Fortune Cookie segment where we’d like to end on a sweet treat. We wanted to ask you what is the most impactful story that’s been submitted to your blog so far? If you can choose favorite children?

Sophia 32:27
I feel like that’s such a tough question. Because I feel like everyone’s stories. It’s their own, you know, it’s very unique, like we have similar experiences, but no one’s lived your shoes completely. I would say, for me just one of the more recent ones Hong-Li – she submitted her story. So she was a victim of a racially motivated attack. She was in a restaurant in LA, and was picking up her order when this man was originally trying to hit on her and she said I’m married, I’m sorry. And then he just started attacking her started calling her slurs telling her to go back to Asia, because his ego was hurt. So that, you know, justifies his actions to become racist, and say all these things to her and she recorded it all on video. And no one stepped in to help her. She had to face all of this herself. And I’m very inspired by her. She’s been just a great person to lean on. She shares lots of resources with me. And I’m just very thankful that she had the courage to speak up and share her story. And she’s been like the driving force for a lot of these movements. It just goes to show that us as a community, we’re stronger together. And we need to keep speaking up about these times, you know, that we are facing, whether it be uncomfortable or it is scary, you know, to speak out against your attacker and to talk about these really uncomfortable times. That can be very traumatizing. But the fact that she did that is just a great driving force for us to continue doing what we’re doing.

Jesse Lin 34:05
And we want to thank you today for joining us and sharing all that with our listeners as well. where can our listeners find you Sophia and your blog?

Sophia 34:15
Yeah, so they can find me @morethanyellow on Instagram, where they can follow and see all the new stories and everything that I’m sharing on there. They can also visit morethanyellowblog.com to submit their own stories so we can continue to amplify Asian American voices.

Angela Lin 34:35
Are you looking for any specific type of stories or experiences or can it be like really anything that they want to share with you?

Sophia 34:43
Really anything? Just any type of experience as an Asian American?

Angela Lin 34:52
Great. Okay. Awesome. Well go ahead and do that listeners. Also, if you Can’t find Sophia some for some reason or you want to go through us your questions for her, feel free to email us at telluswhereyourefrom@gmail.com. And we’re happy to pass along any questions or comments to Sophia and reminder that we are still looking for listener story submissions, so write us in about your experience with either this topic or whatever you want. And yeah, come back next week for another episode.