Episode 12 – Reflections: Azn BBs All Grown Up
Full Transcript (Note: Transcribed via AI, may contain errors)
Angela Lin 0:17
Today we are creating a different mini series within our podcast called reflections where we want to give all of you your chance to tell your listener stories. There are a lot of reasons why we want to share listener stories, one of which is that usually it’s just Jessee and me talking. Sometimes we have guests to bring in an outside perspective, but it’s fairly limited to to us on the microphones. So we wanted to have listener stories so that we could get different perspectives, not just our own.
Jesse Lin 0:52
Piggybacking off of thought we started this podcast with the idea of trying to become closer to our community what it means to be Asian Americans. So we want to open that dialogue, create an open forum with you guys and build that community so we can feel closer to a group of people and can better understand what it means to be Asian American.
Angela Lin 1:13
Because we want to tap into the broader community by bringing in your stories and a broader diversity of voices into the podcast. We wanted to make this content frankly, more interesting and more relatable to more of you since Jesse and I only have so many of our own experiences. So I’m sure by bringing in other people’s stories, there’s only more to be shared and feel akin to
Jesse Lin 1:39
We also want to use this opportunity to share and amplify lesser told stories. So things we may not be so familiar with from our experience as being Asian Americans. So again, please do send keep sending us messages, feedback and stories so that we can continue to share them back out to everybody that listens.
Angela Lin 2:01
Okay, so I think we’ll just dive right into our first listener story. This one is from Julie. And here it goes. When I was in middle school or high school, I was not in a great mental state. This translated to physical manifestations, which is why my mom took me to see a doctor. After the test came back with no physical reasons causing my condition. The doctor said that I was probably depressed. She prescribed me medication to help and recommended a therapist. When I asked my mom if we were going to fill the prescription. She said they’re wrong. I was a doctor in China. So I know best. There’s nothing wrong with you and you need to just buck up. Every time I struggled since then I go back to my mom’s words about bucking up and getting over it. Even when friends would tell me to go see someone. I didn’t believe them because my mom told me it wasn’t for me way back when I didn’t really realize how much it affected me until recently. when I started working in consulting, and was staffed on a really hard project that required me to work 120 hours per week. I didn’t get my period for months because I was too stressed. I eventually had a mental breakdown at work and had to go on medical leave for a few months. I didn’t tell my mom the real reason I was taking medical leave. And I told her I was taking time off between projects. She didn’t ask what the medical leave was for, but I think she could sense that I was taking it for mental health reasons, but didn’t want to confirm that. Looking back on it now, talking to someone really helps me a lot. It gave me time to reflect on why I didn’t talk to someone sooner and made me realize that therapy is normal. If you break your foot, you’d go see a doctor and mental health is just like that. I might not need to see someone all the time. But if I get sick mentally I should go see someone.
Jesse Lin 3:50
I really feel for Julie like I can’t say that I’ve been in the same situation. But definitely I’ve been in this situation where I’ve just found it really hard to talk to my parents about things that were like really difficult in my life. I didn’t come out to my mom until I was like 21, like, basically about to leave college. And then we didn’t really talk about it for like, a few years after that. And in between, like, there was so much stuff happening in my life. But because I was gay, we just didn’t communicate about it. But I think at the end of that time period, it was very difficult. But I did sit down and have a conversation with her about it. And I think we’re in a better place for it. I do want to acknowledge that it is it can be very difficult sometimes to have conversations with their parents because of the language barrier because of the cultural barriers, just the difference differences in our lives. But I think despite that there’s some common ground that can be found. So I hope that Julie and her mom can really connect on this at some point in the future.
Angela Lin 4:51
Yeah, beyond the language barrier and cultural barrier. I also feel like there’s just this like additional barrier with Asian Parents have like, they just don’t like to or know how to talk about emotions like hard topics like that. Because I feel like when I’ve been like really sad in the past and like, try to have those conversations with my mom, she just doesn’t really know how to react. And so it’s kind of similar to what Julie is saying here like, either she kind of brushed it off or she’d be like, Oh, well, you’ll get over it or whatever, because but like I could tell that she wasn’t saying that to be mean or like crude about it. It was more just like she didn’t know what else to say. So she was just like, No, well, let’s let’s just quickly move on because I’m uncomfortable trying to like navigate your sobbing. Me.
Jesse Lin 5:47
Honestly, unfortunately, I have to say that the brunt of that work like the onus of it is like on us. And what I mean by that is when I finally talked to my mom about it, I was in a place for I felt like I fully accepted myself like I was okay with being gay. And because I was comfortable with that, then I was able to have what I felt like was a no pressure conversation with my mom to be like this things like that what we discuss is still here, and I’m still here and like, I’m still fine, and I’m still okay. But we have to talk about it, because it’s a huge part of my life. And I think the same thing with mental health, like, we have to talk about it is a huge part of your overall health and your overall life. But unfortunately, like I said, I think the onus has to come to us where we have processed it enough that we can have just like a normal non pressure conversation with our parents about it because as you mentioned, they don’t necessarily have the facilities to deal with those like emotionally charged conversations.
Angela Lin 6:47
Another big thing that stood out to me was seeking help because I feel like some people’s like hesitancy with trying therapy is a feel like once you start therapy, you’re like, I’m going to have just go to therapy for the rest of your life or something. It’s like that’s not the case. Like you can choose to do that because regular maintenance of your mental health is a good thing. And if you can afford to do that, like good for you, you probably should, but like I think a lot of people do more like what she’s saying. It’s like, recognize when in your life you need it and like seek out that help for those specific moments in your life. But it’s not like a lifelong commitment or anything.
Jesse Lin 7:27
Yeah, no, I agree with that. But I just want to add, there’s nothing wrong if you need to go see a therapist all the time. Like if you have a weight, if you have any other chronic condition, you go see a specialist all the time. So it’s kind of the whole like go see preventative care doctor, like your primary care versus going to Urgent Care like you shouldn’t feel like you have to go to the psychiatrist psychologist at the very last minute when you’re like stretched to your breaking point like, you know, if you start to feel a little tattered at or under the weather, mentally speaking, you should just go if you can afford it Hopefully it doesn’t matter how many times you need to go, you should go to take care of yourself.
Angela Lin 8:05
Okay. Well, thank you, Julie, for sharing your mental health story. I think it’s really important for people to be sharing those kinds of stories again to like normalize that seeking help is good. It’s normal and it’s healthy. So do it. Whatchu got Jesse?
Jesse Lin 8:22
Yeah, so our next listener story is from Annie. And here it goes. First of all, thank you for creating this awesome piece of media. When I listened to the pod I find myself usually nodding through each episode because of how much I recognize the points you make, and the ways you to have navigated the Asian American experience. I’ve been enjoying the fortune cookie recs so far too. After listening to your latest episode on filial piety, I wanted to share my experience with this old ass Confucian virtue because it’s one where I actually had a slightly different experience than what you both share. While I know what filial piety is, its expectations, duties etc tied up with it. My parents actually hardly emphasized the virtue when they raised me. For sure I did what I was told mostly but when we did fight, they never pulled the you’re being a bad or unfilial daughter card. I’m now working, but they don’t ask for part of my paycheck. My mom has even told me that when she gets old, I should put her in a retirement home. I’m not the one that immigrated 7000 plus miles from the land of Confucius to a foreign country. Yet, I was the one that was scandalized when she said that there are probably a couple reasons behind this. My parents are slightly more westernized than average immigrants. And I’m naturally not the rebellious type. So I doubt they weren’t ever really concerned I’d disgraced the family name. But I think a considerable factor among these is the fact that among our extended family back in China, where that virtue is much more important, filial piety hasn’t really worked out great. Namely, there’s a ton of drama between the generations on my dad’s side, there’s currently a large schism between his mom and his younger sister and her immediate family. And on my mom’s side, her sisters have squandered most of their mom’s savings on bad investments and personal expenditures. Are my grandmother’s taken care of by their relatives. Absolutely. All their material needs are addressed but a lot of tension and animosity exists as well. My maternal grandmother lives with her eldest aunt, they can’t stand each other and both regularly call my mom to complain about the other. Not a great case here for why filial piety is a rewarding virtue. That’s not to say that filial piety is altogether bad. The fundamental value of taking care and loving your parents is important, but the unilateral responsibility that it places on the child ends up undermining the virtue. On both sides of my family the soured relationships stem from the dismissive upbringing my aunts received, with all the attention directed to the eldest child instead, in classic traditional Asian fashion. It’s understandable how they’re bitter as adults having to be eternally obedient to someone who has wronged them. Would there be less drama if there was a virtue on how parents should treat children at the same intensity and obligation of filial piety? I don’t know. But I think the longer these generational disputes have dragged on, the more my parents have shied away from passing on to me the same sense of totalitarian obligation, the more they tell me that my life is my own. Another hot take from my mom – parents in China have kids for the sole purpose of having a caretaker when they age. In any case, I know I’m very lucky to have parents who believe that and despite what my mom tells me, I have no plans to put them in a retirement home, which I guess makes me filial by being unfilial. Anyways, thanks for reading my long winded thoughts. Sorry, Angela. I know you told me a few paragraph tops but you can’t stop the overachieving Asian.
Angela Lin 11:45
First of all, beautiful email Annie. Like what a beautifully written email. Well, I feel like there’s so much to unpack in her email because even though she called them out, she said it was about filial piety, and like it kind of is but it’s also about just like all the other embedded values of Asian culture, like how the eldest son is more valuable than everyone else and therefore is treated the best and that how that causes resentment. And I love Well, no, I don’t love but I like that she pointed out that the grandma is taken care of physically but then there’s all this like chaos happening around. And I think that’s really like a product of the fact that filial piety again is like taught more the delivery is wrong, right, like we talked about last time is at its core, it must have been created because it is like showing gratitude and love for the gift of life right and like bringing you into the world and the sacrifices parents made, but the delivery is like you owe me this. You’re obligated to do this for me. You know, then, of course the kids are like, Okay, well, we have to take care of you technically. But like, even by hearing that there’s like conflict amongst all the family and whatnot, just makes me feel like they missed the point. It’s like there’s taken care of to check off the box. But there isn’t the like return of love and gratitude and like, kindness that is at the core of what that tenant was founded on.
Jesse Lin 13:28
Yeah, that’s actually kind of what I related to as well, just because we did talk in our episode regarding the relationships our parents have with their grandparents, but I feel like this was like even more of like a page 6 expose on it, which is like so interesting, because we often tend to think, at least for me, I tend to think that my parents are kind of just cool with it. Like they’re like, whatever, like, we’re happy about it, but we can see I think it’s generally most people aren’t like chafing against it in one way, shape, or form. And I think we feel More even further away from that, because we weren’t even born in a society where everyone else is kind of doing the same thing like we’re so far removed from that we’re like, looking at and we’re like, this doesn’t make any sense at all. Like, I love you know, if I want to love my parents, I love my parents and I show that love how I want to, but there shouldn’t be an obligation that says Like, I must do X, Y and Z in order to showcase that I care about my parents.
Angela Lin 14:25
Yeah, I love that her parents are more willing to like adapt because even though they were born in China, and more the ones who moved to the US they clearly have like very much embraced the the western, like positive sides of Western culture, and like decided to actively rid themselves of a lot of like toxic parts of eastern culture. And I just love that it’s the perfect way to to adopt the two identities. I think it’s like cherry pick the best parts.
Jesse Lin 14:58
Flexibility is key. And I think is where we both also landed and probably where Annie will land as well in terms of how you want to approach filial piety, right? You don’t want to be locked into like a contractual agreement with T Mobile for the rest of your life like you want to like, enjoy the time you have with the people you love the way you want to.
Angela Lin 15:17
Yeah, and I love that she’s unexpectedly filial, although she was taught to be unfilial. All right, so let’s get into our last story of the day. This one is slightly different because it comes from Sarah, who is not an Asian American, she is an ally? That’s the right term? Okay, so I remember complaining when we were studying abroad in Madrid about feeling like an outsider. I couldn’t go outside without someone yelling rubia at me, and people were rude all the time when I tried to speak Spanish. This is nothing in comparison to your experience of racism. And I shut it down because I was having a pity party for myself. I still think about that a lot and feel really ashamed. I never apologized for that and told myself you probably didn’t remember anyway, listening to the podcast made me feel like I should have been a more supportive friend at that time. Even if you don’t remember that specific instance, I still was contributing to that. I’m sorry for not listening to you then. Hearing you both mentioned feeling like an outsider made me reflect on how I’ve done shitty things like that, and how they might have more of an impact on someone that I might have realized. I think stories and different perspectives like on your podcasts are really helpful just broadening people’s perspectives and making them empathetic. Yay!
Jesse Lin 16:48
Thank you. I think that it’s really interesting because we’ve talked a lot about how the concepts of identity overlap with some concepts of stereotypes which overlap some concepts of racism. And I think with all these things is like initially, it can be very isolating to be put in that situation. And I think I definitely see that in this story. So I just want to say about that experience. I think for anyone when you’re accused of being something negative that’s related to your actual being like a sexist comment has been made to you or racist comment or anything like that. A lot of people tend to turn inwards. And you’re kind of stuck in that space for a while until you feel so comfortable with whatever it was that the person attacks you’re with. Like you’re now you’re so comfortable in being a woman, a man, being trans, or you’re so comfortable in being Asian or African American or whatever, that it doesn’t bother you. Then you open up and once you do that, you start to see most everyone has had an experience like that. And I think that’s what I’m seeing here from Sarah, which I think is great because the whole purpose of our podcast in general is to create this idea of community so that everyone can have an experience where they feel like they can be connected to other people. And this is one of those experiences.
Angela Lin 18:12
Yeah, I obviously related a lot with her experience because we…well all of us here studied abroad in Madrid. But, but like she was called rubia which means blonde, so I guess because yeah, a lot like naturally blonde people are not that common, yeah, in Spain, so it was more just like they called her that because she’s like, she stands out right. And it was like the first time in her life It sounds like that she was standing out in like a broader society and I think you said this also happened to you, but like, yeah, you and I were called like China and Chino all time while we’re there because if white people are few and far between Asians are like even more ridiculously exotic right? I think the difference though, is that that experience for me in Spain was the most eye opening for me as well, where I was like, I’ve never been so aware of being Asian as like living here. But when I do reflect on it now it’s like, yes, but there, we talked about this whole time, like they’re microaggressions where you were meaning to like, be reminded of how you look and what like group you belong to even in these, like more diverse societies that we live in. So in Spain was like, this funhouse mirror version of microaggressions.
Jesse Lin 19:40
Yeah, I think it’s what I like to call casual racism, which is that like, when you tell people like that’s wrong, they’re like, oh, no, I’m not racist. It’s not that like you’re overtly racist, but like the things that you’re saying are still racist. Like, yes. And that’s, I think that’s the other thing that I wanted to say that’s great about the story is that not all people have that revelation, some people stay stuck in that inside world. And you end up seeing people who can’t relate to other people who see the things that are going on right now. And they’re like, Oh my god, the shoes at Aldo are on fire instead of like, what’s happening with the people. So I think this is a really great example of someone who has also been through some kind of really uncomfortable commentary about themselves, took some time to digest it, and then opened back up to share their story and to be enveloping in their experience.
Angela Lin 20:36
Yeah, I do love that she was able to reflect on it now and like see how it is parallel to a lot of our stories as well but it kind of also makes me like, sad in a way because she like literally had to be in our shoes to understand that. So it makes it hard for me to imagine people who don’t physically like get insulted or like attacked or whatever, in the same way that people of color do that they are not going to be able to empathize with that unless you’re put in a similar situation which I wouldn’t wish on anyone but like, I wish empathy could be like, more easily understood yeah feeling than than having to like, experience it yourself.
Jesse Lin 21:24
I agree with what you said, I don’t think anyone really wants to go through, go through what that means. And I can’t even imagine what that experience might be like for the African community right now. I don’t think that anyone is saying in general, I don’t think anyone is saying like you’re you should understand the pain exactly as is like it’s a learning process for everybody, especially as you mentioned, those people who will never understand what it means because they don’t walk in our shoes. They can’t they don’t look the same way. They don’t have the same upbringing. But the idea is that you examine how you’re thinking about it and ask questions and like strive to understand. That’s the point. It’s not that you’re ever going to achieve 100% understanding of, of what’s happening and someone else’s life experience.
Angela Lin 22:09
And that is exactly why we’re doing these listener stories. Give a megaphone to everyone to tell your personal experiences so we can all learn from each other.
Jesse Lin 23:00
Welcome back to what is normally the fortune cookie section of our podcast. But now we’re going to be taking listener questions. If you guys don’t know already, aside from the stories that we’re telling in the front half of “Reflections”, we’re also taking listener questions. So if there was something you didn’t quite understand in one of the episodes, or you just had a follow up question regarding the topic or something you wish would have been covered, please do send it to us. Email us at telluswhereyourefrom@gmail.com. As always, that’s Y-O-U-R-E.
Angela Lin 23:35
The question for today is, is there a split between the family that is still in Taiwan and the family living in America? Do you feel that there is any jealousy or bitterness?
Jesse Lin 23:47
Hmm, that is such a tricky question. Okay, so, obviously very two different sides of my family on my mom’s side, the family it’s really just my mom that lives in the States. Everyone else is still back in Taiwan. I don’t know if there’s any jealousy or bitterness per se, but definitely I know that my mom misses her family a lot. And she misses like the moments that you can only experience or be a part of like when you’re there. And, you know, my grandparents are getting older. So I definitely know that there’s some wistfulness on her behalf to be there more frequently and be more present. On the other hand, I do think that she’s kind of resigned to the fact that she’s going to be living here like forever until she passes. Her and my dad paid for a plot in Rose Hills. Rose Hills is like the Beverly Hills of where you want to be buried. It’s so popular. So yeah, I think she’s kind of resigned and made peace with the fact that she’s probably gonna live here until she passes. And then on my dad’s side of the family, I don’t know if there’s any jealousy or bitterness because of the distance but definitely a result of the distance is that some family members we’re not able to be caring for my dad’s mom and dad, when they were kind of getting to their end of life stages. As we discussed in the filial piety episode like that can create so many tensions. So my second oldest uncle was in Taiwan the entire time. So he basically wasn’t able to do really anything because they’re so far and then there was a lot of expectations placed on my oldest uncle who’s the eldest, obviously, is the doctor and like, basically makes a ton of money. And he also lived pretty close to my grandparents, like no closer to LA, which is like 45 minute drive, but still pretty close. So I think from that perspective, there was definitely some tension because they’re kind of like, you’re the oldest like you should be assuming most of the responsibilities and he probably like us didn’t really feel that way. Like we’re all here like we should all share the responsibility. So I definitely felt that there was some undercurrents of tension there.
Angela Lin 25:59
Interesting. On my side, I feel like similar to yours and that like the mom’s side and the dad’s side is is very different. Like I already said, I’m not as close to my dad’s side because he’s the youngest of the many siblings. So like, all my cousins are a lot older than I am. So it’s hard to relate to them. No, but I’m already like, naturally much closer to my mom’s side because I spent more time with them. When I did go back to Taiwan. So similar to yours, I don’t think there’s jealousy or bitterness per se, but there’s the like, unspoken divide, because like you just can’t get as close to people that you aren’t around all the time. So like I am the closest from like the cousin side with the ones who moved to America because I was able to like, either live with them for part of my life or like spend a lot of time with them and the aunts and uncles there too. So Like when we’re all back in Taiwan, it’s easier for me to like gravitate towards the people I’m comfortable with then to try to like extend into the the cousins that are like haven’t seen in eight years or whatever, right? So it’s not, it’s not jealousy or bitterness. It’s really just like level of comfort because of how close we’re able to get with which country you happen to be in. But with that said, when I do talk to my cousins about where they’re at with their lives, and like, how much money well, we didn’t talk about how much money we’re making to like, compare ourselves, it was more just like, I don’t know, it, like somehow came up. They weren’t bitter towards me that I was going to make a ton more money than they were it was more just like a sad reality that we both accepted, but like this is due to the fact like we live in different countries where the standard of living is very different. So that’s just how it is. So there’s a sense of guilt on my side if anything else not really jealousy or bitterness.
Jesse Lin 27:53
So in summary, family is complicated but not overtly jealous or bitter. Thank you for the question.
Angela Lin 28:01
Yes. So as per usual, we would love if you could help promote us. So if you haven’t already, like follow and subscribe to us, please do but the newer thing that we keep pushing now is if you could rate us five stars on Apple podcasts that would help alot in getting us up in the search ranks so please do that if you can come back next time for a new episode.