Lessons in Love from Pandemic Zoom Dating?

[00:00:00] Jesse Lin: Hi everyone. I’m Jesse Lin

[00:00:01] Angela Lin: And I’m Angela Lin. And welcome back to another episode of, But Where Are You Really From? I’m super excited cause I have one of my good friends from business school, Michael, on the show. Hello!

[00:00:14] Michael Cheng: Hello, hello!? Yeah, my name’s Michael.

Full Transcript (Note: Transcribed via AI, may contain errors)

[00:00:16] Michael Cheng: I met Angela in business school in Chicago. Uh, currently I live in LA and have been here for the past two years just before, uh, the quarantine, um, where I’m really from, uh, as I grew up in Florida. Uh, but, uh, my dad is Taiwanese and my mom is Burmese.

[00:00:35] Angela Lin: Well, you mentioned the quarantine is highly relevant to the conversation that we’re going to have today.

[00:00:41] Angela Lin: Uh, because Jesse and I are hyper curious about what dating was like during the pandemic. Um, in the past, we’ve definitely talked about dating and relationships on the show before in like many different facets, but this is one where we were like, well, we can’t have a perspective on it ourselves. I think I had many conversations, like casual conversations with friends who kind of mentioned some of the quirkiness of doing it via Zoom, essentially, largely.

[00:01:16] Angela Lin: Um, so wanted to take today to talk about kind of like comparing and contrasting Zoom dating with IRL dating. So, um, I’d love to hear, I mean, it’s so, so bizarre of a concept to me to begin with, but like, I’m sure we can get into a whole slew of like ways it sucked, but are there any like surprisingly positive things that came out of Zoom dating versus like a IRL date?

[00:01:50] Michael Cheng: Uh, yeah, I mean, one, I mean, this is just like, you don’t, you can only be, you only have to dress up from the top half, which was a little bit nice. Um, but no, I mean, I’d say like, it was an interesting experience because it felt a little bit more loose and casual when you were going in. Cause, um, you know, after you got used to it and got over a little bit of the weirdness, um, it was really just kind of more of a conversation.

[00:02:16] Michael Cheng: You realize it’s no different than talking on FaceTime or Zoom with your friends. Um, and so, you know, I think that kind of took away some of the pressure in the moment and it also just kind of felt more like a, hey, this feels like more of an opportunity just to get to know someone in a pretty loose setting, not in a bar where it’s really loud and you’re having to order drinks and think about all the other extraneous stuff, but you’re really already in a really comfortable space. Like I was on my couch or, um, you know, sitting on my dining room table or things like that. Um, and so it kind of took some of the edge off. Um, so that part was, was, uh, was a pretty surprising thing. Cause I think, you know, going in quarantine, like for me personally, I was never a big FaceTime or Zoom type person.

[00:03:05] Michael Cheng: And I think, you know, we all kind of learned how to do that type of like virtual interaction really quickly. And so, you know, admittedly like the first, the first time it was super weird, you know, just a), there’s just so much, so many things going on, but just. Both sides. Like we just didn’t know how to handle it.

[00:03:26] Michael Cheng: Right? So I think once we realized it was like, oh, this is awkward for any of us, both of us, this is a weird, you know, situation. Let’s just kind of embrace it. It just became a much more kind of normal conversation. Once we got over that hurdle.

[00:03:40] Angela Lin: That’s awesome. Do you feel like, um, without you mentioned, like, usually there’s a lot of distractions with a lot of other things to kind of factor in.

[00:03:50] Angela Lin: Do you feel like you paid more attention to what the other person’s saying then? Because I feel like sometimes when I’m on, when I used to date and I was on like first dates and like you said, in bars and stuff, there’s like so much to think about of like I dunno for me I care a lot about what other people think about me.

[00:04:06] Angela Lin: So I’m like, oh, do I look cute right now? Like, what’s, you know, like, oh, is he judging what I ordered for my drink? You know? Like things like that versus maybe they’re talking to me and like telling me something about their life while I’m thinking all these things and like not actually listening. Did you feel like you were like, oh actually this is like the most focused I’ve been on a date or are you usually a much better listener than that?

[00:04:31] Michael Cheng: No, I think, I think it definitely like made, uh, made it easier to like really hear and listen to the conversation. Uh, it definitely made like awkward pauses that much more awkward because when you’re in a bar setting, you can kind of like find things to talk about around the bar or you have noise around to kind of fill the air.

[00:04:51] Michael Cheng: Um, so I will say like, you know, kind of in some of the, the, the virtual dates that I had. You kind of get to the point where, you know, whether it’s going to be a good conversation or not like a little bit faster, because if that dead air is happening in the first five minutes, you’re kind of both sides is like, ah, this is, this is going to be a little bit of a weird, a weird, you know, a weird 30 minutes, you know, and let’s see what, you know, just, you know, it’s kind of just getting off on the wrong foot a little bit.

[00:05:19] Michael Cheng: Um, so yeah, it was, uh, I will say. It, you know, obviously it’s, it’s mixed, right? Some of them were really great conversations and then the other ones, it was just more like, you know, it almost, it kind of accentuates what what’s going to go good or bad. And, uh, in the IRL setting, when you’re doing an activity or at a bar, um, it kind of gets to that point much faster.

[00:05:44] Jesse Lin: So some foundational questions for my better knowledge and understanding of your situation. When did you, like, when were you like officially in lockdown? Cause I know people were in different stages at different times.

[00:05:55] Michael Cheng: Yeah. So, uh, in LA we went into lockdown probably mid March, mid to late March.

[00:06:01] Jesse Lin: Okay.

[00:06:01] Michael Cheng: Um, and so like, yeah.

[00:06:03] Michael Cheng: Yeah. So it was really like April and April and may were really like hunker down. We didn’t know what was going on. Um, really avoided going outside and even going shopping. Right? It was the toilet paper run and hoard everything. Um, so yeah, exactly. Uh, which, you know, I think. It was, so that means it started pretty early for me.

[00:06:28] Michael Cheng: Um, so like right off the bat, it just felt like very much like, okay, this is, this is going to be a little bit of a, a journey.

[00:06:36] Angela Lin: When did you move to LA again?

[00:06:38] Michael Cheng: I moved in November, 2019. Uh, so I got maybe two or three good months, uh, in LA, uh, before things really locked down and shut down. So. You know, on the one hand, at least I had a little bit of time to get to know the city, but it’s definitely been, uh, I still feel quite new even though I’ve been here for two years.

[00:07:02] Jesse Lin: So how long after lock down, went into effect where you like, I can no longer hold out. I must see another human being or I will go crazy.

[00:07:11] Michael Cheng: Yeah, I’m trying to, that’s a good question. I’m trying to think back. Cause it’s been so long, but I’d say like a month in is where I think at least it felt like, okay, we can be outside.

[00:07:24] Michael Cheng: Um, and that’s when I first would, you know, reach out to my close circle of friends and say, let’s go on a hike. And I remember when we went on a hike, it was very much like we need to be six feet apart still though. And it still felt very much like a. Like a weird social setting where we weren’t quite hanging out together.

[00:07:45] Michael Cheng: We were just at least within each other’s presence. And then, you know, I think kind of around that same time was when I was like, all right, well maybe, you know, the, the virtual dating thing is something that, you know, I’ll, I’ll give a try or, hey, you know, like, uh, you know, I just wanted to interact with some new people and that felt like at that point a month and was like, all right, let’s, let’s try it out and see what happen.

[00:08:10] Jesse Lin: And just out of curiosity, which app did you go to first or did you use an app or did you find dates another way?

[00:08:17] Michael Cheng: No, uh, definitely, definitely the apps. Uh, I think it was like mostly Hinge, maybe a little bit of Bumble. Um, those two mainly. Um, and you know, I remember like back in April, there was so much time, so it was just like you know, just, you know, when it’s sitting on the couch watching Netflix or something and it’s just be swiping and then see what happens.

[00:08:41] Jesse Lin: Cool foundation set for me. Perfect. Excellent. Um, I’m wondering during this time, because you do have, like, you have more need to connect with people and you have like tons of options through the apps.

[00:08:54] Jesse Lin: Did you find that you were going on dates with people you normally probably would not have?

[00:09:00] Michael Cheng: Yeah, I think that was one of the interesting things, especially during quarantine, but also for me personally, being in a new city. Right? Um, so it definitely was more like a, hey, you know, maybe not sure whether I would typically, you know, interact or, or go on a date with this person.

[00:09:21] Michael Cheng: But, you know, when it’s a FaceTime and you know, there isn’t as much planning involved and the bar’s a little bit lower in terms of what you have to prepare and all that. Um, you know, it just made it a little bit more open to, to talking to maybe, you know, some people that I wouldn’t have in the past. Uh, sometimes it was great.

[00:09:41] Michael Cheng: Sometimes it was definitely like, uh, nope, that just kind of reaffirms like kind of like my, my, my, you know, my tastes and everything like that. But, um, it was definitely, uh, you know, an opportunity to kind of talk to folks that I didn’t have a chance to really talk to before.

[00:10:01] Jesse Lin: Nice. That’s interesting. I was just thinking like, based off of, cause you kind of said like 30 minutes and then Angela was saying like, what people think about you?

[00:10:10] Jesse Lin: Did you feel like you were more loose in the Zoom dates because there’s less of a like social pressure? It’s kind of just like, okay, well, like if I never see them again, that’s cool. But if I was in a bar it could be like weird because there are people watching if it doesn’t end up going well.

[00:10:31] Michael Cheng: Yeah, I’d say it was really weird.

[00:10:34] Michael Cheng: I mean, obviously even when I was doing the FaceTime, I would have at least a drink. Cause, cause it’s kind of weird to just sit there talking and you know, typically, you know, we were both have like a glass of wine or something like that. Um, and so, you know, I think you’re right. As I mentioned before, like, when you don’t have all this external stuff happening around you, um, it really did kind of take some of the pressure off, um, and made it easier to have good conversation if the conversation was there.

[00:11:09] Michael Cheng: Um, I think that’s where it was kind of like, hey, if there’s clearly not a connection, um, then it would be a bit, uh, you know, it just felt a little bit more awkward in that moment. Um, because you really didn’t have anywhere else to go or, you know, nothing to kind of, um, you know, distract or try to lead the conversation somewhere.

[00:11:33] Jesse Lin: That’s interesting. So you feel like the Zoom dating was it’s the way that you’re describing it makes me almost think of it kind of like speed dating. Whereas like in a real date you might have, you might start out like slow and you’re like, oh, I don’t know if I like this, but because you’re like committed to being that in that space, it might turn out well, like you give the person more time, but in the Zoom thing, you’re kind of just like five minutes, five minutes.

[00:11:57] Michael Cheng: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was never, it never felt like there was like a timer on, on, you know, when I was on a Zoom date, but it definitely was just like, all right, like five minutes in, you just get a better sense of like, is this, is this there’s this there’s something here? Or, or, or, you know, is this going to be something where we found something to talk about?

[00:12:18] Michael Cheng: Right. Because it didn’t otherwise, it felt super forced. Um, and then it just gets kind of weird and then you’re on both sides. So you can just kind of tell us, all right, how does this end? And, um, and then, but I will say like on the, on the FaceTime thing, it’s like, you just kind of click the end call button and it’s, and it’s done.

[00:12:40] Michael Cheng: So, uh, th there’s that little bit of an advantage to when, uh, when it was more the, the, the Zoom dating or the virtual dating.

[00:12:48] Angela Lin: Going back to the idea of connections. So my question is about kind of like how you balance things like physical attraction in terms of one like you mentioned, you went on some dates with people you’d normally wouldn’t have, does that include people that like, you know, maybe you had like a certain physical attractiveness type before, and this time you’re like, oh, well now I know conversations were interesting, like more important.

[00:13:17] Angela Lin: So you’re like scanning for the profile for more like, I dunno, quote unquote, interesting people. Um, versus someone who just physically looks like your usual type. And then also, how did you gauge physical attraction on the call? Because I feel like even though we talked about, there’s a lot of downside with like distractions and whatnot in a bar setting or whatever, there is a lot of, kind of like body language. And like, there’s something you can’t really like you know, convey with like, words, what that thing is. But like, you can kind of tell when you’re IRL with someone, if there is that connection that the screen takes away a little bit of. So how did you like navigate that and balance that kind of importance, I guess, of that element?

[00:14:06] Michael Cheng: Yeah. I mean I think, you know, at the beginning it was still kind of staying within the same kind of physical attraction lane that I was used to. And then kind of more like to your latter point point you had, it’s more like, oh, this person has an interesting background or they have an interesting job, but I’ve never really, you know, connected with before or would have not really seen myself, you know, uh, you know, having a, a date with, um, but then, you know, over time, I think, you know, just by having really interesting dates and good experiences, it was like, okay, like maybe expand the horizons even more. Um, but you’re right. I think to your second question you’re right. That is something that you miss out on, um, versus in real life, is it, you know, kind of interacting through a screen is very limiting when it comes to like just the overall physical connection, um, because you kind of miss out on a lot of those cues or, you know, you know, listening to, to a conversation through a speaker, it kind of removes some of the, the intimacy and the, and the, and the connection there. Um, but so, you know, that’s why it was even more like about the conversation itself.

[00:15:22] Michael Cheng: Um, then, you know, you know, but even though like, you know, usually on a date that physical attraction is like very important. It’s just not really as, um, easy to, to gauge, um, when you’re, when you’re doing it over Facetime.

[00:15:39] Angela Lin: So at what point, cause you mentioned like, you know, in the beginning we all thought we were going to die. Essentially. We all thought there was contagion in real life. Right? Like that’s what it felt like. So at what point were you like mm, I feel safe enough to like have an, I dunno, an outdoor, like a park date or something with someone and shift this off Zoom?

[00:16:01] Angela Lin: Well, it’s like oh, I’ve talked to this person enough times on Zoom. I actually want to meet them in real life. Or were you just like, I need humans and just like start doing first dates, even outdoor? Like what point was up for you?

[00:16:13] Michael Cheng: Yeah, I’d say by like the summer, I think after a few, like maybe two or three Zoom chats, you know, at that point it’s like, okay, well, you know, clearly there’s a connection and we enjoy talking to each other.

[00:16:29] Michael Cheng: At that point, things felt less, um, you know, less scary. Um, and I think for me personally, also, like I had been going and meeting up with friends more often. I think people also just started to hang out with friends more. Um, so it felt like a natural extension to suggest a date with someone. Um, obviously like the first few times it was very much like, um, you know, let’s go to a park, let’s wear our masks.

[00:16:58] Michael Cheng: Let’s go on a walk. Um, and you know, just basically do the FaceTime experience, but you know, a little bit just while, while walking basically. Um, and so I’d say, yeah, it took a couple months. And then at the point where it was just more like, hey, let’s just where I kind of just like, was like no more FaceTime dating.

[00:17:19] Michael Cheng: I’d say it was once the vaccines came out. Um, probably like this year is when it was like, okay, as long as we were both vaccinated. Um, you know, I was more comfortable meeting up at a, at a bar or a restaurant for the first time at that point.

[00:17:33] Angela Lin: And then related and I’ll relinquish the floor is a, so another one of our friends who I will not name told me about a date and whatever, she was just recounting her date, but she mentioned like they kissed and I was just like so curious about at what point, I think it was like pre vaccine. So it was kind of like, meh, you know, I was curious at the time of like, how do you know, how do you gauge when to like trust someone, I guess, because I mean, someone you’ve been on a few dates with still kind of a stranger, right? And in such a weird climate of like, I don’t know, how and when I might get this thing and like, but I’m attracted to you and I like need social interaction with like all this stuff.

[00:18:22] Angela Lin: Did you have those moments or were you like, no, we’re not till vaccine comes out?

[00:18:28] Michael Cheng: Yeah, no, I’d say like, you know, in the earlier days it felt so, so like, I feel like everybody was. To meet up in person. Like we have to like be on the same page about, you know, social distancing and, you know, being responsible.

[00:18:45] Michael Cheng: I mean, I think at that point, when you’re meeting up in person with somebody, you don’t know that well yet you’re kind of like willing to take that little bit of risk, but there was definitely a feeling of like, hey, you know, like let’s, let’s, you know, again, go to a park first. Uh, let’s just keep our masks on and go on a walk.

[00:19:02] Michael Cheng: Um, you know, and then it becomes a second in person date, third. And, you know, you kind of build that, that, that trust, uh, even though like you’ve only known them for a limited amount of time, like at least at that point, it felt a little bit more comfortable. Um, and then I’d say like, probably towards the end of 2020, I think when everybody was like, all right, kinda kinda over this.

[00:19:22] Michael Cheng: I think some of the, um, some, you know, at that point, maybe not for a, for lack of a better term. It’s not that I wasn’t careful, but it just wasn’t as much of a, hey, like have you, you know, gone to big gatherings or, you know, what are your, you know, are you masking when you go out, it was more of a, you know, like, hey, you seem like, it seems, uh, like we’re both responsible adults and, you know, I feel like I’ve, I’ve trust that, um, you know, no, you know, you kind of have to kind of trust that the other person is on the same page..

[00:19:58] Jesse Lin: Yeah, I definitely not dating wise, but I feel like there’s like a new social contract in place that people have had to negotiate or like learn new, which is like how to hang out with people and like respect people’s boundaries and comfort around like COVID and all that. And at some point it changed from something that was explicit to implicit where you’re just kind of like, okay, like I trust this person is like, thinking about, you know, my situation before they meet, even though maybe they’re not, but yeah.

[00:20:27] Michael Cheng: I mean, I think, you know, like being in LA, you know, uh, or in California in general, there’s just kind of more of an acceptance that people, or an assumption that people are going to be taking the necessary precautions. Um, you know, I know there’s some other places where maybe perhaps, you know, I don’t know how I would feel because he, you don’t necessarily can’t have that as, as strongly when assumption whether that other person is, is, is taking the same precautions.

[00:20:56] Michael Cheng: Um, so I think, you know, as towards the end of 2020, you know, it just felt like, all right, like people kind of have their, their way of doing things. And, um, you know, we’ve kinda gotten used to this a bit by the end of 2020, where it was like, okay, well, it feels like, um, you know, not that we were throwing caution to the wind but you don’t have to like interrogate everybody.

[00:21:19] Jesse Lin: So did you find that you, you know, you, you kind of mentioned during the pandemic, during Zoom dating, you went a little bit outside of like the, the type of person that you wouldn’t normally date. Have you found that that’s something that you’ve taken with you out of that into IRL?

[00:21:33] Jesse Lin: Or are you kind of like, come back to what you’re normally interested in?

[00:21:38] Michael Cheng: Um, I think some, uh, you know, again, it gave you an opportunity to meet new kinds of people and, and, you know, find, you know, uh, you know, very different personalities. On the opposite side it make me, like realize some of the things that I used to be attracted to actually, I, I maybe I I’m not as attracted to that anymore.

[00:22:02] Michael Cheng: Um, and so, you know, I think, you know, the whole pandemic just allowed me to accelerate, I guess, like accelerate some of the changing values that I’ve had and, and, and, and approach to dating. Um, to be more open, to, to new types of people. Um, you know, it’s not like I’ve gone fully to, to new, you know, type, but I definitely am more willing to, to see like, okay like it could be, it could be a fun day let’s let’s uh, let’s give it a try.

[00:22:38] Angela Lin: The real question is, are you dating Asian people now?

[00:22:43] Michael Cheng: Wow, I have, I have, yeah, putting me on the spot. I have, I have gone on quite a few dates with Asian people. Um, I think I just also have realized that’s, uh, in California, there’s, uh, there’s a lot more, so I I’ve just never been in a place where there’s just so – this many, um, you know, Asians around, um, you know, growing up in Florida and living in Chicago, you know, it wasn’t, you know, the as, as, uh, easy to interact and find people that I’m now realizing, oh, we have like very, very similar backgrounds and there is something to that. Um, whereas, you know, in, in other places it was kind of not rare, but, um, it just, it wasn’t as present, uh, for me.

[00:23:33] Michael Cheng: Um, so yeah, I mean, I know, uh, yeah, it definitely expanded in that regard as well.

[00:23:43] Angela Lin: Yeah, it’s funny. So our friend group is like hilariously half Asian, half white. We’re like nine so we’re like technically more than half Asian, I guess. Cause we have like one more Asian person than white person, but uh, we’re we’re like heavily Asian represented in our friend group.

[00:24:02] Angela Lin: Um, but then I remember during business school because yeah, you, you spent a lot of time in Chicago as well. I think we had a few times where you merged your friend groups from like pre-business school. I was like, wow. All of his friends are white.

[00:24:19] Michael Cheng: Yeah. I mean, I know it’s, it’s just one of those things where, you know, when you grow up in a place like Florida, like my, my upbringing was like that show Fresh Off the Boat.

[00:24:29] Michael Cheng: It was just very white suburbia. That’s what I was surrounded by. That’s what I kind of grew up knowing. Um, and so, yeah, I’d say. It’s been quite the cultural, not shock, but just like it’s been, it’s been cool to, to see in LA kind of the diversity and, um, just more of my, you know, being able to see, you know, my culture, um, down main street and things like that.

[00:24:56] Angela Lin: Well, going on a tangent related to that, you said you have like a very loose connection, kind of to Eddie Huang, right? From Fresh Off the Boat, or you had like hung out and smoke, something like that?

[00:25:09] Michael Cheng: I have not hung out with Eddie Huang. I mean, it was Orlando in the nineties.

[00:25:13] Michael Cheng: That’s where he was, that’s what the show’s about. Um, so there are, there weren’t that many Chinese people in the nineties. So in the same kind of Asian associations through Chinese school. Um, we had mutual friends. Uh, yeah, I was actually just talking to my parents about this, uh, over Thanksgiving. They’re like, oh yeah, yeah.

[00:25:32] Michael Cheng: We know who they are. Um, you know, we so-and-so knows them and they tell, you know, them and oh, we heard their son is doing this now and then, you know, the whole typical grapevine thing. Um, so yeah, uh, have a loose, loose connection to Eddie Huang, um, uh,

[00:25:47] Angela Lin: Three degrees away from Eddie Huang situation

[00:25:49] Michael Cheng: I’d say 2, 2, 2.5.

[00:25:52] Jesse Lin: Hmm, when it comes to, I’m going to like flashback to the dating stuff, when it comes to the like Zoom dating, did you feel like, because I remember when I would even like, just meet up with someone new, there’s like a little bit of like nerves, like anxiety, anticipation. Did you find that that was like different on for Zoom, uh, date versus like an IRL date?

[00:26:14] Michael Cheng: Uh, yeah, I’d say it’s the same. Um, there’s a little bit, if anything, it’s even more, uh, just leading into it. Right? Because all of a sudden, you you’re like waiting for the phone to ring or you’re calling them and then all of a sudden their face is on the screen. And so there’s no, that’s just all of a sudden you’re like thrown into it.

[00:26:32] Michael Cheng: Uh, and so yeah, I’d say the nerves are still there. Um, it’s yeah, it’s, uh, it, it was a very, it’s a very interesting thing compared to when you’re doing it in real life, where at least you have like a, the beginning hug and you know, there’s a little bit of small talk. Um, and then you’re usually you know about to do something, but in this case, it’s kind of like, all right, well, this, this has started.

[00:26:59] Michael Cheng: Um, and you know, you just kind of have to dive right in.

[00:27:04] Jesse Lin: This has started. Did you, did you, uh, have a specific way you would present yourself or you use a specific zoom background or something like that?

[00:27:14] Angela Lin: Oh, Zoom background, yeah!

[00:27:16] Michael Cheng: I think I’ve, I think, you know what, to be honest, I think at first it was like very much like, okay.

[00:27:20] Michael Cheng: I gotta make sure my background’s all nice or use a virtual background and then all this kind of stuff. Um, you know, and then I think eventually, I don’t know. I just also feel like people are like, all right, well, this is actually kind of, you don’t need to do all that. You can just kind of be more natural. Um, it was definitely like maybe clean my apartment more that gave me the reason to do that. Um, uh, but yeah, no, I was definitely, uh, at the beginning, if, because again, like this is something I, no one really had done this before. Um, and then I realized as I was going through some of these dates, like I had never really paid attention to what was behind them or anything like that.

[00:28:06] Michael Cheng: Um, you know, because it’s so, um, so much about the conversation that I realized oh, okay. Maybe I don’t, you know, for me personally, um, I just need to make sure, like, you know, at least on my couch and just, uh, uh, you know, have a normal conversation and, and to your original question, like, I don’t know, I didn’t really have any like, openers.

[00:28:27] Michael Cheng: It was just like, hey, how’s it going? Like how’s your day been? Um, again, like to, to my earlier point, it just, the more, you know, as I did more of them, it just felt like you were FaceTiming someone. You know, like your friend, right? So without like the friendship part, but like, at least it was like, Hey, like how’s your day been?

[00:28:46] Michael Cheng: What have you been up to? And then you would kind of go from there.

[00:28:50] Jesse Lin: And has it made your IRL dating game stronger because now you like, I survived Zoom dating, and now I don’t care at all. How, like, not that you don’t care how it goes, but you’re like, you know what, I can do this.

[00:29:02] Michael Cheng: Oh, that’s a good question.

[00:29:05] Michael Cheng: Uh, since I’m still single, I guess you could say. Um, no, I, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s interesting. I don’t know if it’s changed anything once it went back to real life dating. Um, I don’t know. I just, it’s just, maybe it’s more subliminal for me, and I haven’t noticed if it’s changed anything. Um, but I think just overall like I don’t know when it started to get back to normal and you would meet up at a bar or anything like that. It was almost like I would, didn’t want to think about the quarantine time and what that whole awkward situation was like.

[00:29:43] Angela Lin: Blocked that out of your memory.

[00:29:45] Michael Cheng: Bit of that. And it’s also just two very different experiences when you’re doing a F – like I wouldn’t approach a date at a restaurant or at a bar the same way that I did on FaceTime.

[00:29:57] Michael Cheng: Right? Because those are two very different, um, you know, settings. Um, did it make me maybe more again, when I was meeting new people that I wouldn’t have gone on a date with before, and maybe less, more open to just, you know, having those conversations about things that I just didn’t really have a lot of familiarity with, or, um, or also for me, like if they, you know, didn’t really have familiarity with, um, you know, myself like opening up a little bit more I think that that helped, um, because it’s, it’s interesting on FaceTime. I did find that you got quicker to opening up in some cases with some people, um, because it’s, you know, to your earlier point, that’ll not so much like speed dating, but just like, because it’s all about the conversation, it got to some deeper things when there was a true connection there.

[00:30:52] Michael Cheng: And that was for me when I realized, oh, there’s, there’s something here. Like, because we would go into topics that I typically wouldn’t be going into on a first date, or necessarily as deeply. But when you’re kind of talking on, on FaceTime, it just felt more natural to do that.

[00:31:11] Jesse Lin: Yeah. I asked that question cause I, I like, I feel like it, when I talked to a bunch of my friends, they’re like, there’s a more Yolo attitude towards it in the sense that they used to think a lot about what the person might judge them on, but now you’ve gone through the whole thing where it’s like, it’s kind of this whole, like, life’s too short thing where, why are you worried about that? Like, if they don’t like you, as you are, as a person would just move on to the next person. So it does sound like there’s a little bit of that where you’re like more, um, you’re more presenting of the things that you normally wouldn’t share to people on a first date.

[00:31:47] Michael Cheng: Yeah. Yeah. No, that, that part I totally agree with. Um, you know, I, I think and maybe this is also just, you know, as, as I’m getting older, um, you know, it’s just some of the superficiality. It feels like you kind of get over that a little bit faster, um, because, you know, as I mentioned, like, I kind of enjoyed having those, those types of conversations when there was that connection.

[00:32:13] Michael Cheng: Um, and so now, you know, like when there is the opportunity on the first date, like I’m not as like, oh, maybe I shouldn’t go down that path in this conversation. I’d be more open to, to, you know, you know, seeing where it goes.

[00:32:28] Angela Lin: Once you kind of started transitioning to some IRL dating or like hybrid or whatever.

[00:32:34] Angela Lin: Did you have any like, um, shocks with readjusting the social life? Cause we talked outside of dating. We’ve talked about like, oh, we’re all so awkward now. Cause we’ve like been isolated and only done virtual things for so long. Forgot how to be normal around people. Did you have that at all with the dating?

[00:32:55] Michael Cheng: The first few are like super rough. I mean, it’s already you already thinking like, do I go in for a hug or like, how do I even do that? And then you add in like well, there’s technically a pandemic going on. So is that even like appropriate? Um, yeah, I’d say the first few and just overall. It was just like getting used to being in a social setting like that.

[00:33:16] Michael Cheng: Um, so it was definitely awkward at first. Got, I’d like to think that it’s gotten back to normal for me, where it feels like, um, you know, there isn’t that, that like fear going in that, like, I have lost all my social skills. Uh, You know, I, at least I’d like to think so. Um, but yeah, it definitely was weird just because also I think, again, it is a two way street, always.

[00:33:43] Michael Cheng: So that was the one comforting thing was just like, yeah, this is weird. There was like a little bit of that acknowledgement at the beginning of just like yeah I don’t know, like, do we fist bump? Okay. Then you’d have a good laugh about it. And then, and then go on inside and, and, you know, kind of, you know, have a normal date after that.

[00:33:59] Michael Cheng: So it almost broke the tension a little bit faster because like, there was those acknowledgement that like, hey, I’m getting used to this again too. Um, so you had a little bit more of that, like, uh, leeway a little bit to be awkward, even at the, um, like already kind of an awkward person naturally.

[00:34:19] Angela Lin: Not that awkward.

[00:34:20] Jesse Lin: All right. So we’re going to go onto the Fortune Cookie part of the podcast, because we always like to end on a sweet treat and our prompt for you is to, uh, anonymously share with us your worst Zoom date experience.

[00:34:37] Michael Cheng: Oh, that’s a good one. Uh, yeah, it was one where sometimes it would just happen like right away.

[00:34:44] Michael Cheng: Like I’d be on the app and they’d be like, hey, let’s just FaceTime now. It’s like, whoa. Like, you know, sometimes like, it’s like, all right, like sometimes, you know, you don’t like, no, let’s do this another time. And again, this was like height of pandemic. So sometimes I’m just like, you know what? Fuck it. Let’s try it.

[00:35:02] Michael Cheng: Let’s go for it. Uh, one time the girl was like clearly wasted already. And I didn’t realize going into the call that she was so drunk. Um, and so I get on the FaceTime because she’s like, hey, let’s talk now. I’m like, okay. You know, it’s been a good back and forth on the, on the app I get on. And she is just completely gone.

[00:35:25] Michael Cheng: I’m just like, oh, hey. And she’s like slurring her speech. And you know, she can’t – I don’t understand her. And then like, and then she like just started. She’s like, I got – do you mind if I smoke? Sure. And then she just starts ripping like a bong and I’m just like, okay, at this point for me, I’m just like, I’m just now at this point, I know it’s not going to go anywhere.

[00:35:49] Michael Cheng: I’m like, this is just entertaining at this point. So I just sat, I mean, we had fun cause I mean, I was just, you know kind of just, having a conversation with her as she’s like super drunk and high. And I was like, all right, I guess I’ll have a little bit of a drink. Um, but yeah, she was, I don’t even know if she would have remembered that we had that conversation because clearly I never heard from her ever again.

[00:36:15] Michael Cheng: Um, but that was definitely one of those where I was just like, that was interesting. It was also one of those situations. Like, you know, I went into it being like this isn’t normally the type of person I would go on a date with. That was one of those scenarios. Like, okay. If I run into that again, maybe that it, oh my God.

[00:36:34] Jesse Lin: We have to. We have to hunt her down and get her side of the story.

[00:36:40] Michael Cheng: And the fun, you know what the funny thing is, I think she was like a teacher too. So I was like, whoa, oh

[00:36:48] Jesse Lin: She you know, I think teachers were having a real hard time.

[00:36:52] Angela Lin: That’s true.

[00:36:52] Michael Cheng: So I was like, you know what, you know, at this, you know, I was like, all right, this is what it is.

[00:36:59] Michael Cheng: And you know from what I remember it was a fun conversation. I just knew that she wasn’t like gonna remember most of it.

[00:37:08] Jesse Lin: I just want to know what she thought she was going to get out of it.

[00:37:12] Angela Lin: I’m sure she remembers a little bit because if she, if you never heard from her, I think mortified probably.

[00:37:19] Michael Cheng: That’s true. Probably.

[00:37:21] Michael Cheng: But, I mean, that’s the thing, like when it was like April, May, June, and we didn’t know what was going on and there was nothing to do. I mean, I hate to say it there. Just be times where you’re just like, all right, well, I’m bored. So I’ll just like, go on and then you’d match with somebody and just be like, all right, well, I’ll guess I’ll just talk to this person.

[00:37:38] Michael Cheng: Um, and that’s where you get into situations like I did where the person was blackout. So. That was probably, I wouldn’t say the worst, but just like the most like interesting, the worst ones are the ones where it’s like, clearly like just a lot of dead air and, you know, in the first five minutes, it’s just like, all right, there’s not really a connection here.

[00:38:01] Michael Cheng: And then at like, you know, you’re both kind of like, all right, who’s going to be the one that says, oh, I got to do laundry, gotta go!

[00:38:11] Angela Lin: Got to answer this text message.

[00:38:14] Michael Cheng: Exactly, exactly. Exactly. Um, you know, everybody’s gotta find that out.

[00:38:22] Angela Lin: What’s the shortest Zoom date you’ve had?

[00:38:24] Michael Cheng: Probably about 15 minutes.

[00:38:26] Angela Lin: Oh, if you know, within five and you still let it go for 15 and it’s feels like it’s still kind of yeah,

[00:38:33] Michael Cheng: I know for me sometimes when it gets to that point, I’m just like, all right, well, let’s just like you know, start talking about random stuff. And then, you know, at that point it was like, all right, I think we’ve exhausted all potential options here. I was like my stove, I gotta go. I gotta go cook dinner at 4:30 PM.

[00:38:58] Michael Cheng: Yeah, I, yeah, I will say the, I do not do, there was a point where I was like, oh, I could do this like in normal times I feel like there was like, this is cool. I was like, this is a nice casual way to like meet someone for the first time, get a sense to know them. Maybe I’ll maybe I’ll do this from now on. And once things got back to, I was like, yeah, I’m not going to do that.

[00:39:23] Angela Lin: I feel like it was kind of like, um, forcing millennial and gen Z, but like millennial and younger people to like face the fact that we never like our generation’s not phone people. Right? Like we never talk on the phone, we like text mostly, right? So versus like, my brother is technically he’s at the like highest end of millennial where he’s basically more like the previous generation and he like loves getting on the phone with like new people.

[00:39:55] Angela Lin: And I’m like, how are you on the phone for like one hour or whatever with some random human, but it’s like, okay, we don’t have that kind of habit. And then also add video into it like thats it at this point.

[00:40:08] Michael Cheng: I will say though, because of it, like now I like FaceTiming with my friends so that, you know, that’s one of the positives came out of this.

[00:40:17] Michael Cheng: Um, but yeah, I, I, it was a bit of an adjustment to experience it through a screen like that. Um, you know, but for better or worse, you know, it was just kind of like a sign of the times, like, right. Like this was a weird 2020. And something that some of us had to deal with.

[00:40:39] Angela Lin: Well, we are very grateful that you shared your experiences, including your hilarious black out convo.

[00:40:50] Angela Lin: Thank you for joining.

[00:40:52] Michael Cheng: Awesome. Thanks. Thanks for having me really enjoyed it.

[00:40:55] Jesse Lin: Yeah, of course. Well, listeners, if you have any questions for us or for Michael, or you want to report your own find Zoom date disaster or not disaster? Maybe get a really good Zoom date, let us know, write us in at telluswhereyourefrom@gmail.com.

[00:41:15] Angela Lin: Or, hey, you heard Michael’s still single. If you’re in the LA area looking for a date, we can hook you up with a Zoom one.

[00:41:25] Michael Cheng: Why do you think I did this?

[00:41:29] Angela Lin: Yeah, son!.

[00:41:30] Michael Cheng: Ok share my Hinge profile.

[00:41:33] Angela Lin: Oh, well, we’ll leave it in the episode notes.

[00:41:41] Angela Lin: Yeah, I like that. Okay. Well, in other news, thanks for listening. And come back next week. We’ll have another episode for you then.