Angela Lin 0:20
Today we have not one guest but two guests. So we have Anna and Ziad, very special guests are joining us today. Hello, and welcome.
Jesse Lin 0:30
Hello, hello.
Ziad 0:30
Hello.
Anna 0:31
Hey
Angela Lin 0:32
Thanks for having us.
Yeah, so we have both guests on today, because we have a different kind of episode topic that we’re covering today. We’re actually recording this a few weeks in advance. But for those of you listening right now, it is the day before 911 – 20 years, actually, after 911 if all of us can even believe that feels like eons ago, and also like yesterday, in a lot of ways. So Jesse, and I certainly didn’t feel like we’d have the most direct or most impacted perspective from what happened that day. So we wanted to bring on guests who can provide perspectives from the Arab American, Arab diaspora, whatever you want to call it, perspective, and that’s why we have Anna and Ziad on. Before we go into any meaty stuff, though, we should introduce you guys. However you feel comfortable introducing yourselves. And however you feel comfortable answering our standard guest question. But where are you really from?
Full Transcript (Note: Transcribed via AI, may contain errors)
Anna 1:44
Okay, so Hello, everyone. My name is Andalusia Mossad, but for the purpose of the podcast just going by Anna. I am a speech language pathologist based in San Francisco. And my standard response to, but where am I really from or just where are you from in general is I’m Palestinian American. But I grew up pretty much my whole life in Dubai. But genuinely I don’t really feel from a particular place other than I feel very close to Palestine. And I feel most comfortable living in America. And that’s how I answer the question.
Ziad 2:26
First of all, I just like to start and say, I really liked the name of your podcast, just because it’s a question where are you really from? It’s something I’ve gotten my entire life and I’m always kind of leaves me befuddled not knowing what to say like, what do you mean where am I from? To answer that question, the way I would answer it is, um, my name is Ziad Elsahili, I’m from Portland, Oregon. I’m originally my ethnicity and my parents are both from Lebanon with one quarter Syrian. And yeah, Middle Eastern Arab descent. And I’m an American from Portland, Oregon.
Angela Lin 3:00
Love that. I know. It’s a funny question. And we we also have guests and listeners that are like, that’s a triggering question to be the name of your podcast.
Ziad 3:11
I mean, you guys have all heard that right. Your whole lives, like where are you really where are you from, yeah?
Anna 3:16
The most uncomfortable thing for me was, like in college when I first because I moved back to the states for undergrad. And in groups of people like my roommates knew where I was from. And it was such a standard thing that like, you’d be at a party, and people would just say, where are you from? And my roommates would always like, position it so that I was the last one to respond to the question. So they all were like I’m from a town in Wisconsin. I’m from a town in Wisconsin, and then it got to me. And they’re like, like, say the thing, Anna. And it always felt like a announcement, it was never fun.
Angela Lin 3:51
And Anna I will be annoying and kind of forced you to dissect a little bit more of your background only because it helps give context as to why we have two guests.
Anna 4:00
Okay, I will give. I’ll just give like a quick lifespan overview. I was born in St. Louis. My dad was finishing up his doctorate while I was there. And like age, zero until five, I was going between St. Louis and Turkey because he was doing research in Istanbul. So that’s where I lived in the beginning of my life. And then he got his first job as a professor in Dubai in 1998. So we moved over there. And so all of my earliest memories up through graduating high school were in Dubai. So why do I sound American because I went to an American school. Most of our teachers were from Minnesota. So I grew up in like a really American high school experience, but with all mainly expat people at my school and then when I graduated high school 2011 I did undergrad in Wisconsin and then, once I was done with undergrad, I moved to San Francisco.
Angela Lin 5:10
So before we get into the actual 911 part of it, I think we should dissect a little bit the like, route of what happened afterwards, which is kind of defining what Islamophobia is. Because I think for a lot of people, and Jesse and I aren’t, we always do this, we’re not experts, we don’t know anything. We’re just like, discussing the, to the extent we know about anything, right. But for me, at like the highest level, people who don’t understand the concept much or just like, oh, it’s about something around like terrorists, and something around like, brown people, like a very high level, right? There’s almost like a disconnect, even from the fact that the word Islam is like in the name Islamophobia. And it’s more just based on looks of like, especially their signifiers, right, that people often latch on to things like a turban, or just like any semblance to anything they’ve seen on TV during the like, you know, years of propaganda that we were served. I don’t know, I think for me, it’s like weird, because it must have had an impact on you, your community in terms of like, I don’t even necessarily identify with that. But I’m getting the results of people’s feelings about it. So not to say you guys are experts necessarily on the definition of Islamophobia, but like, how have you seen that concept, in terms of like, what it actually means and like, how it’s reflected on on your community?
Ziad 6:43
Angela, I think you really kind of hit hit it for me when you said it’s extends beyond Islam, it’s not just a Muslim thing. I think it’s, you know, people being scared or suspicious of people who are Muslim or Arab or brown in general. It’s definitely something that I would say is more phenotype driven, driven, rather than genotype driven, which is their physical presentation, rather than where they’re actually from. I mean, people are afraid of brown people on an airplane people, we’ve all heard the stories of American people calling on their neighbors for suspicion of illegal terrorist activity where there was no base or any kind of evidence to suggest that. To me, Islamophobia is a wide ranging type of fear or dislike for anyone that is perceived to be Arab or Muslim, not just Arabs or Muslim people.
Anna 7:45
Of course, the irony in that is, like, not all Arabs are Muslim, not all Muslims are Arabs, there’s actually, like, it’s not that huge of an overlap, when you think about those things.
Ziad 7:58
And literally, almost all Arabs and Muslims are nothing to be scared of, or whatever. So it’s just, it’s it’s not just Arabs and Muslims. That’s the crazy part. Like, I even had friends who have told me if they saw a man in a turban on an airplane, even if the man is not from the Middle East, which they wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between a man from India or a man from in their head from anywhere in the Middle East some sense of fear comes over them. And that, to me, really spoke to what Islamophobia is. And it’s not Islam, it’s just a phobia of people.
Angela Lin 8:36
It is kind of crazy town to me when I see like the news. So even not even just talking about 911. But in the years after, right, I think the news has latched on to a lot of crazy things like mass shootings, which certainly have increased to some extent, but I don’t know if it’s as frequent as the news makes it sound. But it’s like, every other day, it feels like on the news and saying something about something like extremist Islam related person who decided to like shoot up a whole place or do something, or bomb something or whatever. And I know, they’re just technically reporting facts. But for me, I’m like, I don’t know, I think you need to think a little bit about the implication of like blasting this kind of over and over again, and what other people who aren’t interested enough to understand the difference between people who might look similar but aren’t actually believing the same thing and aren’t driven by the same things like what the impact of it this type of news is all the time on those communities because, like, I can’t help if you can’t tell us apart, but that we don’t believe in the same stuff. And like, I’m not that kind of person. But you know, there’s an impact on on me.
Ziad 9:54
When there is a violent act, which are all just terrible, the way they report it. If it’s a Arab or a Middle Eastern person that is a terrorist. And if it is not, it is a troubled individual who has mental health issues. I think that’s some Islamophobia just built into the media, just public perception and reporting right there.
Anna 10:17
Yeah, when an act happens before they release who the like the person is, there’s always speculation about who it is. And there’s, and it tends to be like the initial and I hate going on message boards. And whenever this kind of stuff happens, because you look at the comments, and the first thing is like people saying, oh, for sure, it’s a Muslim, for sure. It’s an Arab, it’s another extremist blah, blah, blah, and like, that’s where people’s heads go to right away. Even though there’s a lot of times where that’s largely not the case. And it’s very distressing to have to go through that every single time there’s an act that happens before it’s released. Like what was the cause of it? Was it Islam related? Was it whatever it related? The panic that goes through me and I know, you know, my close friends and in our community is is really upsetting because it’s like oh, my is this another situation that’s going to other us further in mainstream America and like confirm some biases for a lot of people that even if they’re saying out loud that they are they’re not Islamic phobia blah blah blah. Like maybe in the back of their head? Is this confirming something for people? And that’s scary.
Angela Lin 12:52
Well, I think we’re already digging into the impact of post 911 because I gander to think those types of unconscious bias didn’t necessarily exist in people before that date. So I do want to zero in then on kind of the main topic for today, which is reflecting on your personal experiences before and after this big day. Jesse and I can start with our perspective, because it’s the least to like intimate. And for me, I do remember very distinctly, I was in sixth grade at the time, and I think my teacher must have heard something big happened. So then she turned on the TV. And we all as a class watch that iconic image of the towers, you know, starting to have all this smoke and the aftermath. And in our community growing up, we had a lot of Persian people, so from Iran, and that’s not the same type of people at all, but almost immediately, it was like the same day or the day after I distinctly remember being in the lunch cafeteria, and one of the little brothers of one of the kids in my class who’s Persian. They’re just like all these random heckler boys that were like, essentially like FU. Like why do you hate America? Like this is all your fault that those kinds of sentiments. I just remember thinking like, what that makes no sense. Like, this kid has nothing to do with what happened. And like, as of 10 minutes ago, you guys were friends. You know it just like it was a very quick turning point. And I certainly couldn’t process all of why that was happening or like how how bad and disconnected that was at the time, but thinking back on it it. I remember that moment pretty clearly. So I was like, oh, wow, things have changed very quickly.
Jesse Lin 14:54
I actually remember that when I woke up before school. My mom told me it was she was like oh, come you have to watch this thing on the TV, like, It’s nuts, and I was like, I was like, what, and like fourth or fifth grade. So I like didn’t, I don’t even think I knew what the World Trade Center was, I didn’t know exactly what was happening. And it’s like that kind of thing where you see as a kid, like, you don’t know how to process it, because it’s never happened before. And it’s not you don’t really understand like the scope of, of what it is. But I do remember that like the entire day afterwards, it was like pretty, it was a very different environment. Because I think even for, even though we lived in California, I think there were a few, a few kids in the class where they had like parents in New York doing business and stuff like that. So it was like a very serious situation, because like, some of them were called out because they didn’t know what had happened. And they had to be taken home by their other parents. I don’t remember having that experience, like seeing anyone picked on. And I feel like it didn’t necessarily change my own perspective on making friends with people. So I from that perspective, Angela, I agree with you, like, from my standpoint on like, it’s, it wasn’t a thing for me to select people or not. And I also think it’s largely because we did live in a bubble. So there were a lot of Asian people, a lot of people who just outwardly looked brown. And so what they weren’t, like rare, or like people that you don’t normally see every day.
Anna 16:20
So I was in second grade. So I was a little younger at the time, and it was the evening and Dubai when it happened. And it’s it’s not like a clear, you know, everyone says it’s like a flashbulb memory for them in the States, they remember exactly where they were. And I, for me, it’s more just a series of like small memories woven together, because I really didn’t understand the impact of what was going on. But I know that like the American Embassy sent out messages to all the Americans there. And I know some Americans left Dubai soon after that, like weeks after that, they decided that they would move back to the United States or somewhere else. But in terms of things before and things after. Afterwards, I do know, there was definitely increased security, because every summer we would go back to Wisconsin, and it just became a lot more complicated. And my dad’s name is Mohammed. So he always is questioned at the airport. And where it gets dicey to dissect is similar to how I like draw comparisons to being a woman, like sometimes you’re wondering, am I being treated like this because I’m a woman, or just because this is what’s happening right now? Like, that happens a lot to me in an air in the airports as an Arab with the last name that I have is like, Am I getting randomly checked because I’m an Arab? Or is it just a random check? And so you, you find yourself balancing that a lot. Living in, in the United States, once I moved into in 2011, I definitely had people make comments to me. And it was the first time I’ve ever been in a community where anyone had ever made negative comments about being an Arab or, you know, someone like wrote outside my dorm room, like on the whiteboard, dirty Arab, and like, I have people. Oh, yeah, yeah. And like, but the other thing is, like, I’m quite white passing. So when people don’t know I’m Arab, I’ve also had people like, make super Islamophobic, like rude comments in front of me without realizing where I’m from. And then it’s just this like, internal thing where I’m like, do I want to engage in this conversation? Or do I just bite my tongue because it’s so much more emotional for me than it is for them. And why even get into that? Any negative experiences I’ve had being an Arab have been, while I’ve been the United States, because growing up in Dubai, most of my friends were Arab, too so it was very much so a shared experience. And those who weren’t Arab, were very embedded in the culture in Dubai and were friends with a lot of Arabs. So when you have like all these inter woven communities, who really know each other and know what we value and stand for, like, it’s not going to change your interactions with each other, and it really didn’t being in a Muslim country. It only was, you know, when you take the plane over here.
Ziad 19:17
So I was in sixth grade, during 911. And I grew up in a suburb outside of Portland, and it’s probably one of the least diverse places in the country that I’ve ever been. It’s very much Caucasian American, and some good people there, but it’s just not very diverse. Before 911 I was, I would say most people, just thought I was a kid with a unique name and a different culture. Didn’t think much of it. Once 911 came and hit I remember the day it happened was before school. I was waking up before going to school with my mom and jida, which is grandma in Arabic who was staying the night at my house. Watching we’re all just in shock. Like, what the hell is happening? My mom was crying. I can’t remember if they canceled school or not. But I know I went to school, eventually, the day or two after. And yeah, after it happened, I would say it was a there’s definitely a before and after. I was picked on. Definitely dealt with a lot of bullying people, friends, people who were still my friends today, at times where they did that. People thought it was socially acceptable to call you a terrorist towelhead. Someone even recently called me a camel jockey. I mean, it doesn’t go away. And you know, some people do it out of racism. Some people do it because it’s something they can get away with, and try to get some laughs which is also racist in a way. But it was prevalent. I had teachers, coaches, people in just every, every facet, other people’s parents making comments. It wasn’t just the kids. It was they were learning that this was okay. And so that that part sucked like one little story was I played football in high school and high school is very far after sixth grade, but it was still a thing. And I, there was one other guy on the team from the Middle East. And he’s not even Muslim. But we were in the locker room for a minute, we had to like, go back down and come back up before the game. And one of the coaches said, gosh, where have you guys been? Someone said, you guys were praying in the showers before the game on like rugs, to Mecca. I know they were just saying that to get under our skin. But it was just like stuff like that came up a lot. From that experience. I definitely learned to have pretty thick skin. And like I said, Even today, people will still poke and prod at it. I still think it’s kind of socially accepted in a lot of circles in America right now to make fun of people from the Middle East. Not be like super pointed and hateful with racism, but making fun of a Middle Eastern person and calling them terrorist or towelhead. Some people still laugh at that, which sucks, but it’s a reality. And then yeah, just travel in general airports. I’ve been stopped a number of times, just based on racial profiling. They’ve even said it. I mean, one time I was coming back from Brazil to America, I was on a trip there it was in 2017 – 2018. Not that long ago. And I’m in the airport in Rio de Janeiro and we’re boarding and I get pulled off of the – I’m at the gate. And as I’m walking through the tunnel to the plane, someone comes and chases me down, pulls me and takes me into a backroom, looked around in the backroom and asked everyone their names one guy’s name is Muhammad, one guy’s Abnan, one guy’s name is you know, all Middle Eastern names. And Ziad. Yeah, we just all got randomly searched, and they dumped all our bags on the table and asked our stuff, it’s just an inconvenience. But that’s not the only time that’s happened. In Portland, I’ve been probably randomly searched every time I go through an airport. And then lastly, when I was coming back from Lebanon in 2019, with my now wife, we were going through Frankfurt, Germany. And in the airport in Germany, everyone had boarded except us. We were the only people I think, coming through from the Middle East through Germany to go to Portland. And we they had to hold the plane on the runway, we almost missed the flight because of how much extra random searching we were going through. So I mean, all of that, plus the bullying and stuff like that. I mean, you get used to it, for sure. But it doesn’t mean it’s okay.
Angela Lin 24:07
Wow. I mean, that’s messed up that you even have to get used to it, you know what I mean? That shouldn’t have to be you that’s adapting to that being a reality.
Ziad 24:18
Right.
Jesse Lin 24:19
Would you say based off of your experience that the way that people are outwardly treating you is was something that was that intention was there before this event happened and the event and all of the communications and news afterwards just gave people permission to express that? Or was it like something that came from the actual event and the media hullabaloo afterwards?
Ziad 24:43
I think a lot of people initially did it and stopped and in general, but the people who could have done that and continue to do it have had that in them from the beginning in general. And this was just an excuse to pick on someone for some reason about something.
Jesse Lin 25:00
Yeah, no, I asked that question because I think when a lot of the anti Asian hate around COVID started, I think a lot of people were like, Oh my God, why are people so crazy? Like they’re acting so ridiculous right now? And the truth is that like, it was already there, people just were Yeah, they didn’t have the permission to say those things. And this was the perfect excuse for them to just let it all out and have it be semi socially acceptable.
Ziad 25:25
I think that one’s different in the sense that there is a large Asian population here in the United States. And they’re, they’re definitely that did does exist and did exist prior to COVID for certain people. And I’m sure to some extent, but I think it’s a lesser extent, the anti Middle Eastern Islam Arab thing, because there just weren’t that many and people weren’t like, especially where I was from, they weren’t even really aware of what it was. Until 911.
Anna 25:54
I think, yeah, 911 really brought things to light. But racist depictions and like dehumanization of Arabs in general has been around for a long time.
Ziad 26:04
True, very true
Anna 26:04
Watch, watch an old Indiana Jones movie, look at an old Tintin comic book and like, you will see portrayals of, I mean, even Aladdin the Disney movie, it’s like, like, keep people like cutting off limbs, like for as punishment or whatever. So, you know, that has that is something that is has largely existed and was, but it was, like you said, just kind of running under the radar. And when there’s a reason to, like, really root it up and make it the popular consensus, like it was it was ripe to be, it was ripe to be like that. But yeah, those depictions have existed.
Angela Lin 26:46
So knowing how diverse the term Arab and the Arab community is, do you feel an affinity to other Arab people, even if they’re not from like the same part of that region that your family is from?
Ziad 27:38
When somebody tells me they’re from the Middle East and they’re not from like Lebanon or that area or neighboring countries? Honestly, it’s a mixed answer. Like, I don’t look at someone from the UAE, like originally, as being that similar to someone like me, at least from a racial and cultural perspective, other – the only thing we’re really connected by is the language and the predominant religion. But at the same time, there’s always that kind of connection, like, oh, you’re from this area, and you’re Arab. Like let’s talk about things like that. And I love that kind of interaction. I do that every time I’m like, I get an Uber and someone’s from the Middle East, and we’ll have an exchange. Or I go to like a counter an airport counter and someone will be like Ziad, your name, Ziad, where are you from? But they’re actually they’ll say, where are you from? They’ll say the same thing. I’ll tell them, but I’ll answer that one more directly, because I know what they’re getting at and I’ll ask them the same thing. So it’s a big, big question. Because like, then you have to ask yourself, like, what is Arab? Like, what does it mean? Because you could be from North Africa, or you could be from Yemen. Or you could be from Palestine, or any of these places, and you’re Arab. But they’re all pretty different too at the same time.
Anna 29:02
I do feel a kinship, a genuine kinship, even when the cultures are very different. It’s honestly especially when the cultures are different sometimes because it makes me curious. And I want to learn like a what’s like Moroccan Arabic sounds so crazy to me, but in a really cool way. Like it’s like completely different. And I love hearing the language, hearing how their words are different, like learning about what their experiences were like growing up. Because when you do have those overlaps, it’s very interesting to know like, wow, that is amazing how that travelled across so far. But also we have all these things that are different. An example that I can think of is I was in a train station in Paris, and I was totally lost and couldn’t figure out how to get to the train to the airport. And my French is terrible. So I went up to this random person and I was like, do you speak English in French? And they’re like, no, and then they started trying to help me get to the train station. I mean to the right platform. And somehow in this exchange, he asked me where I was from. And I said, I’m Palestinian. And then he said he was Egyptian. And then in Arabic, I was like, oh, do you speak Arabic? And he was like, yeah. And so then we just switched into Arabic. And it was like, we were joking around, he showed me, he walked me to the platform. And like, we had this immediate connection, it was, it was really, like, he was so excited. And I was so excited to have like, found another one of us somewhere else, you know. So I do get, I do get like a feeling of connection to those groups.
Jesse Lin 30:37
So should we transition over to our ending segment called fortune cookie, because we always like to end on a sweet treat.
Angela Lin 30:47
No specific timeframe. But like, in the general near future, do we feel like the fact that we are now in a move in a moment in time in society where we’re having a lot of conversations, frankly, like a lot more conversations that we’ve had before about race and people of diverse backgrounds, and accepting and celebrating people of different backgrounds, do we feel like that hopefully, in the future will will have a more positive effect on all people who have a non just like white background to them. I can start that I, I’m hopeful, I won’t put a timeframe to it. Because I can’t I don’t think I can say like, in five years, you know, we’ll all be like Kumbaya, or whatever. But I think we’ve never had a moment like this, where it’s like, going deep on reflecting the number of cultures and the impact of like, just acknowledging that we all exist and like that, it’s okay to be different and all that stuff. I think, in the next X number of years, hopefully, while we’re still alive, we’ll see the kind of like positive benefits of that.
Jesse Lin 32:01
I want to pile on to that and kind of add some additional information from my perspective as well, which is that like, I agree that this is kind of a flashpoint because it’s like made everyone confront the fact that everybody is a little bit racist, like, that’s the honest truth, like everybody has some reaction based off of how a person looks because of their skin color. And where I see the difference is that in this movement, I see a lot more of the majority doing navel gazing, meaning like, the white community is doing their own reflection. And I feel like previously, it was almost like the onus was on the minority community, like you would go around and you would have to explain to people like, this isn’t what you think it is like. And somehow, I feel a little bit that that’s moved on to the majority community, which I think is, is a good thing to see. Because people are starting to recognize that their behaviors have some kind of impact.
Anna 32:54
The most relevant thing for me has actually been just in the last few months. As a Palestinian, it was so shocking to me to see like this shift in, in social media, of people suddenly supporting Palestine. And people reaching out to me saying, I remember you’re Palestinian, are you okay? I mean, it’s amazing that suddenly people are saying things and people are speaking out. But, um, you know, for me, this has been a lifelong, like torture – it’s the word that comes to mind as this like a knife in your heart every time something happens in Palestine, and to suddenly have everyone like, notice. I felt like my initial reaction should have been joy, but it was like, yeah, it’s, um, yeah, it’s horrible. Yeah, it’s a really terrible situation. But once I was able to, kind of, like, move on from my being very cynical, and like upset about that. You know, I think it does point to a shift in the way that people are getting their information, you know, like, because mainstream media is no longer like the only source of information that means – you know, sometimes it’s not always great, but for better or worse, people are making their own news – and they’re deciding what they want to push to the front of the internet. And I think for Arabs, that’s, I think it’s a positive thing in some ways. There’s a lot of ways that it’s bad as well. So I’m a little hesitant to say that but I mean, this most recent thing with Palestine makes me in a very long term kind of way feel maybe more hopeful. But I unfortunately, I feel like a little pessimistic I’m not sure why still.
Ziad 34:52
Yeah. That’s a really good point about the response to most recent conflict in Israel and Palestine. And the support that you can see all through social media was very different than it ever has been, which was definitely a unique sign of the times. Building upon that, I think what you’ve also started to see is like with this stop Asian hate stuff, and the support Palestine and the BLM, proponents of all of these different causes are supporting one another too, and you’re starting to see like this podcast here, we’re trying to relate our experience to the Asian experience, and we’re coming together and thinking about how this type of thoughts and behavior goes away. I think this is the first time I’ve noticed a concerted effort across the board of kind of, you know, different diverse groups of people kind of saying this isn’t okay to do that to them, this isn’t okay to do that, to me, this isn’t okay to do that to anyone. And a lot of white people are doing the same thing. And I think I do see some hope there, that social media awareness, people coming together and all of that really helping get these messages across like, you see a ton of support in pro sports for the stop Asian hate. You’ve seen that on their jerseys or their clothing or attire, kind of when they’re coming in the arenas, you see commercials, you see big companies like Nike, and others promoting that message. So I think all of that’s positive. And at the same time, I think there’s a certain group of people that still exist, who are not going to change their minds anytime soon. And I think that’s a reality that you kind of have to accept, and hopefully over time, and I will never give a time limit on it either. But over time that kind of stuff just becomes super minority, like very few people are like that. And I just don’t know how long that’s gonna take.
Angela Lin 36:45
Well, let’s keep our rose colored glasses on for that x date in the future when all happens? Yes. Well, thank you both so much for joining us. I think we learned a lot as we always hope to do when we have guests on so appreciate you providing your perspectives that only you can do.
Ziad 37:05
Thanks for having us.
Anna 37:06
Yeah, thank you so much. It was really wonderful talking with you, too.
Jesse Lin 37:09
Likewise. All right. Well, listeners if you have any questions or story of your own to tell regarding this particular topic, please write us in. You can dm us on Instagram, or you can email us at telluswhereyourefrom@gmail.com the you’re is y-o-u-r-e. And as always come back next week –
Angela Lin 37:33
And actually don’t come back next week because this is actually our last third of this season. Come back in a few weeks we’ll announce when the when we come back. But as always Jesse, Jesse and I need a little break to recharge before the next season, so that we can bring us more awesome content later. But do listen back to all of our other episodes and tell some friends and until next season.