[00:00:00] Angela Lin: Hey everyone I’m Angela Lin.
[00:00:07] Jesse Lin: And I’m Jesse Lin. And welcome back to another episode of, But Where Are You Really From? This week we’re putting Angela in the hot seat she just returned last week from a 10 day silent meditation retreat. Is that correct? So we want to get all the juicy details of how that experience is. Honestly from my perspective, I was like 10 days, so frightening, but like give us a little bit of background, maybe like, uh, why you decided to go do it and just like set the setting for the listeners.
Full Transcript (Note: Transcribed via AI, may contain errors)
[00:00:39] Angela Lin: Yeah. Um, so basically I was kind of like a drag along kind of, um, Ramon has always wanted to do a ten – or not necessarily ten-day, but he’s always wanted to do something like a silent meditation.
[00:00:52] Angela Lin: Um, and I’d always been like, oh, you have fun with that. I’ll like, be on vacation when you do that. Um, and then semi recently, like a few months ago, his friend Craig who lives in the Northeast was like, oh, I’m actually doing it. Like I found a place that’s running it for these dates. I’m doing it. If you guys want to come sign up now.
[00:01:15] Angela Lin: Cause there’s like an application process. And so Ramon was like, oh, I’m definitely doing it. And I was like, meh, I was kinda on the fence. But I think, um, I think between like having to pull the trigger of doing the application and like, um, yeah, there was like a little bit of time between, like, I actually had to make that decision of like I’m putting in my application.
[00:01:40] Angela Lin: And in between that time we had done another uh, guided therapeutic session thing. And I was like, hmm, maybe, maybe it’ll be good for me because it was, you know, all of that stuff is about like self-growth. And I was, um, the last thing I did was a ketamine, uh, session. And there were like moments in that session where I had asked about like, is there further guidance on things like my spirituality, like wanting to further to develop my spirituality or like, more specifics around like working on this podcast, like goals, that kind of stuff.
[00:02:17] Angela Lin: And that session there were for those two questions, I was getting kind of like blanks where it was essentially saying, like, it’s up to you to figure that stuff out. And so I was like, hmm, they’re open-ended questions here. And we happened to have been given this opportunity around the silent meditation thing. Maybe, this is in the cards for me that like, this is the work that I’m supposed to be doing to help me kind of figure it out myself. So that kind of tipped me over the edge. And I was like, fine, let me do it. And I was like, okay, I’ll do it with you. Um, but honestly I had no idea what I was getting myself into and I was not a meditator before.
[00:02:58] Angela Lin: Like I think I had only done like Headspace type things, but not even as frequently as like you do Calm or anything like that. Um, sometimes with my therapist, we do some meditations when I’m like really heated from like something happened at work or like whatever. And I’m like, you need to calm down and she’s like, let’s do a little meditation, but like, I was never, but I was never…
[00:03:23] Jesse Lin: She was like I need a moment, just shh..
[00:03:26] Angela Lin: I need you to to meditate, you know, so, so it was not like I was not practiced in it.
[00:03:33] Angela Lin: And, um, leading up to it, we had like told many people were going to do it. And everyone was asking us, like, how do you feel about it? Ramon was like, oh, I’m so excited. I’m going – it’s going to be like a much needed vacation or like rest, because he’s been really busy with his startup. And I was like, um, I’m just terrified.
[00:03:53] Angela Lin: I don’t know, like that was my response.
[00:03:56] Jesse Lin: Cool. So tell us where, where you actually went and maybe like, give us an understand what was the facility like? I’m like very curious, just like your whole surroundings, what was that like?
[00:04:08] Angela Lin: Yeah. Yeah. So it’s super interesting. I didn’t like none of us had looked up that much about it beforehand. And also I think there is a little bit of like mystery surrounding the nonprofit organization that runs it.
[00:04:23] Angela Lin: Um, I think on purpose because a lot of it has to do with like the experience once you actually get there. Um, but we did it in kind of middle of nowhere, Massachusetts. The town is called Shelburne Falls. Um, it’s like a two hour drive outside of Boston. Um, and so basically the meditation technique that we learned is called Vipassana and the Vipassana Institute or whatever, the like, organization that, um, is behind it around the world.
[00:04:54] Angela Lin: Uh, this Massachusetts location was the first US center outside of India. So, this is like the big one. Like if you were going to do it in the US is like the biggest, most established one. Yeah. Um, so I think it was like serendipitous that we happened to like be at this one. Cause they were like, essentially, this is probably the, like the most legit one you would have gone to if it was in the US um, and so the center is I mean, it’s pretty built out, but like I said, it was like the first one. So they had told us afterwards, they were like, this is like the ideal construction of all the centers, but we were probably one of the only ones that’s like fully constructed. So they have a meditation hall, which is where everyone comes to meditate many times a day.
[00:05:43] Angela Lin: Um, and it’s separated by gender. So it’s like female on the right, male on the left. And then at the front, there are teachers. So like two teachers, one female, one male that sit at the front. Um, and then they are essentially playing recordings from like the real teacher. It sounded kind of janky when I first read it on the website, I was like, we were going to be listening to recordings.
[00:06:11] Angela Lin: Like, what does this mean? Um, and basically there’s this whole history behind it, where I was like, I didn’t know any of this. Um, okay. So Vipassana, this technique was created by buddha like the human Buddha. So like forget the like religion behind, you know, Buddhism or whatever. But it’s like, um, Gautama the, the Buddha from like 2,500 years ago in India, the like actual person who lived, um, he created this meditation technique to end suffering, which sounds like crazy, right. Or like really lofty. Um, but essentially like at its core, it’s all about self-awareness um, so much so that the thesis is like, all of your suffering is caused by yourself. Like not external forces, so you can blame like, oh, I lost my job or whatever. Right. But that’s not really the source of your suffering.
[00:07:09] Angela Lin: It’s that you then kind of like dwell on that fact and like, make yourself feel so much worse that then you’re like in, in misery for like hours and hours and hours. Right. So it’s all around like, how do you become, so self-aware that you’re able to kind of like stop yourself in your tracks and like, not get so wrapped up in your emotions that you cause more suffering for yourself and then others.
[00:07:35] Angela Lin: And the ultimate goal, being that once you have like total control over like your sensations in your body and therefore how you react to things, you would stop essentially like reacting to things and just remain equanamous is the word that they kept using. And I was like, what the F is equanamous. Like, I’ve never heard that word.
[00:07:57] Angela Lin: Um, but essentially it’s like balanced. So it’s exactly what Sandeepa was telling us in that episode we did with her, which is like happy things, don’t make you so high and sad things don’t make you so low. You’re just kind of like in this like middle band, I was like, is Sandeepa a, Buddha reincarnated. I don’t know maybe, but anyways, so it’s like, that’s your like goal is to be equanamous.
[00:08:20] Angela Lin: And that is like, quote unquote, what enlightenment actually is like you’re liberated from suffering. Doesn’t mean you go to heaven or whatever. It’s like heaven within yourself. Because you’ve achieved, like true peace. So anyways, so Buddha invented this thing 2,500 years ago in India, but, and then he taught it to many people, um, and it spread to like neighboring countries, but as after he passed away and like, as the tradition kept getting taught, it kept getting mixed with other meditation techniques and other religions popped up.
[00:08:55] Angela Lin: And then they started to try to like add things that weren’t part of their original technique. So it was lost like, the original pure technique was lost from India for a long time. And one of the only countries that like kept the technique perfect was Burma, AKA Myanmar um, and they had passed it like all the way down to recent times perfectly, but it was always taught in Burmese.
[00:09:19] Angela Lin: So you had to be like essentially a Burmese monk to ever learn this technique until then in like early 1900s, there was one Burmese teacher of it who started teaching it in English so that other people could actually learn it. Um, and he taught it to this guy who is of Indian – like ethnically Indian, but grew up in Burma.
[00:09:43] Angela Lin: At the time Burma, um, and that guy’s name is Goenka. And so Goenka is the one who spread Vipassana to the whole world as the modern world, as we now know it. So those recordings that you’re listening to are from Goenka, this Indian dude from Burma, um teaching it in English. But he already passed away.
[00:10:06] Angela Lin: So he passed away in 2013, which is why they play the recordings that you can still learn it from like him directly. Um, and it’s actually like a, not as lame as it sounds like when I first heard that I was like, so we’re going to be watching like VHS tapes or something like in the front of the classroom, like, what does this mean?
[00:10:24] Angela Lin: But basically every center has like really hooked up audio visual. So like, mostly it’s audio that you’re listening to. He’s like telling you the instructions and like chanting and like leading the meditations, but they have like really good speaker surround sound type stuff. So it’s kind of sounds like he’s like in the room with you doing it.
[00:10:45] Angela Lin: Yeah. So. It was pretty dope. Um, so yeah, there’s the meditation hall, which is like every day, there are certain hours where everyone has to be in there. The rest of the time you either can meditate in there or you can go back to your room, um, to do like your own, you know personal space meditation or, um, the latter half of the week, once you’ve like trained up a little bit, there was a pagoda.
[00:11:13] Angela Lin: Um, that’s like in the Burmese style, which like temple Burmese, pagoda style. Pretty beautiful. But, uh, functionally inside, they have like solo meditation rooms for each person. So you can like turn off the light and it’s like blackout, essentially. It’s like sensory deprivation. Um, so you could either meditate in the hall in that cell or in your, uh, room for the like non-group times.
[00:11:42] Angela Lin: So yeah, the center is the hall, your sleeping quarters and that pagoda, um, and dining room, but th that’s it.
[00:11:51] Jesse Lin: Are you doing like anything else? Like outside of meditation?
[00:11:55] Angela Lin: Dude not really. Um, so it was really intense. The schedule was really intense. Um, so you wake up at four. The wake up bell is at 4:00 AM. Um, they’ll ring another one at 4:20 to make sure you’re awake.
[00:12:09] Angela Lin: And then your first meditation starts at 4:30 and then you meditate till 6:30 and then you get to have breakfast. From 6:30 to 8:00. Um, and then your only other breaks are lunch, which is 11:00 AM to 1:00 PM. And then.
[00:12:31] Angela Lin: Uh, like what do you get anywhere and then sleep. And then you get to sleep at like 9:00, 9:15. Um, so the only thing you’re doing outside of meditating and eating is during those times, like once you finish eating, everyone just like runs outside because you are inside all day. So it’s like, they have really nice, um, walking paths like behind, you know, outside. So you’re allowed to walk, but you’re – there’s so many rules, like you’re not allowed to exercise or like, you can’t do yoga. You can’t like do pushups. You can’t do like other stuff. The only thing you can do is walk. So everyone’s walking like the whole hour, because they’re just like, I need fresh air.
[00:13:15] Angela Lin: I need to like stimulate my brain. I need to like, you know, do something other than sit and meditate. Um, so that’s the only thing you’re doing besides eating and meditating.
[00:13:28] Jesse Lin: Wow. Okay. So then I have to ask the million dollar question upfront. Like how do you not talk to people when you’re like eating or like walking next to them or like all that.
[00:13:39] Angela Lin: So it’s actually super interesting because I think when everyone hears the term silent meditation retreat, the thing you think of is like, oh, it must be so hard not to talk, but actually the not talking part is like the easiest part of the whole retreat.
[00:13:54] Angela Lin: It’s not that hard. Um, because also they prime you upfront of like, this these 10 days is for you. It’s for self – it’s for introspection, it’s for you to like gain the awareness of yourself. And by speaking to other people and by like making eye contact and you’re not supposed to make eye contact either.
[00:14:14] Angela Lin: Um, so by like, um, sharing energy, essentially with other people, you are doing a disservice to yourself and to the other person, because the whole point is to like, be able to focus so much on yourself and the sensations in your body that if you talk to someone or like, make eye contact or whatever your brain is like latching onto anything it can possibly latch on to, to not have to think about what’s going on in your body.
[00:14:44] Angela Lin: That then like, if you literally just have like one sentence of like, oh, how was your meditation going? And someone’s like oh, I’m feeling like XYZ, then all of a sudden your brain is going to like what? I want to feel that. And like, you’re just like, then in this like tornado of thoughts about stuff, which is not the point.
[00:15:02] Angela Lin: So it’s actually very easy not to talk. Um, the hard part is like actually doing the meditating and something that like no one talks about, which we debriefed about afterwards is like, it’s physically extremely difficult. Like yes, mentally and emotionally it is difficult, but nobody talks about the physical aspect for some reason.
[00:15:25] Angela Lin: So like sitting cross-legged, which is the way most people do it is really hard, especially if you have tight hips. So I have really tight hips and it’s confusing because, um, the only times you’re allowed to talk are you can talk to the teachers that are up front. If you have like, questions about the technique to make sure that you’re like doing it right. So I’d asked the teacher kind of earlier on, I was like, um, am I supposed to like, feel this much pain? Because part of what they teach is like, you’re going to have a lot of discomfort throughout the process and. There’s like a balance between it, but a lot of the discomfort you’re supposed to push through, because it is really kind of just your brain, like making it up to make you not focus.
[00:16:15] Angela Lin: Um, versus I was like, but I feel like excruciating pain. Like I can’t walk for like three minutes after I get up. And she was like, um, yeah, maybe you need to switch your posture. So your position. So I was like, I, I was basically like killing my hips unnecessarily for three days. And then I switched to a different position, which is like, it’s still not easy, but at least I wasn’t like, um, I might be like genuinely hurting myself.
[00:16:44] Angela Lin: Uh, so yeah, no one talks about the physical stuff, but it’s like, it’s really hard, especially if you’re not like super flexible or whatever. Um, so yeah, that was an aspect where I was like, someone should have said this.
[00:16:57] Jesse Lin: Yeah. I mean, I can’t even imagine, like I, you know, I just, you just think about, at least for me, I think about sitting at a work desk for days on end, because I have a very comfortable chair, but at the same time, I’m like, can I sit in this chair for like 24 hours? Not really. So I’m curious if there was like, So you said, you said the guys and girls are in the same room, but they’re separate, right? So you weren’t with Ramon during that?
[00:17:21] Angela Lin: No, no, no, no, no. So, sorry, I should’ve said that. Um, so men and women are separated the entire 10 days. So after we dropped off our luggage, it was like, bye.
[00:17:32] Angela Lin: See you in 10 days. So the only time you’re actually together is in the meditation hall, but you are still separated by gender. So I could like look across the room and be like, there he is, but I couldn’t talk to him. I couldn’t do anything. Everything else is gender separated. So like there’s a women’s sleeping quarters, a women’s dining room, a women’s only walk path. So you don’t encounter anyone that’s not a woman the entire time if you’re a woman and vice versa. Yeah.
[00:18:01] Jesse Lin: Oh my god. Oh my God. Okay. So. Okay, actually, actually, I’m going to, I’m going to back up because now I’m curious about, cause I’m still like building the scene in my head. Did you have to wear special clothing, like robes or something?
[00:18:15] Angela Lin: We were wearing monks clothing, the entire – no. Um, there weren’t like cult uniforms or anything like that, but, um, you were restricted from wearing certain things. So again, the whole point is to like, not be distracted by stuff besides your own mind and stuff.
[00:18:32] Angela Lin: So they basically said like, don’t wear any. Distracting, like don’t wear tight clothing. Don’t wear like things that are going to show midriff. So like women weren’t allowed to wear like, uh, tights, for example, like workout tights, you had to wear like baggier things so that you don’t distract anyone with, you know, fleshly temptation.
[00:18:56] Angela Lin: Um, and, and then also you had to buy unscented toiletries because actually I felt it, it was like, once you have. Once you’re focusing so much on like just meditating the whole time and like your brain and your body, any, anything else is like really stimulating. So like one woman definitely did not buy unscented stuff.
[00:19:17] Angela Lin: And sometimes when she’d walk past me, I smelled her like, I don’t know, Dove shampoo or something. I was like, oh my God, that is so strong because everyone else is wearing unscented so that there was no like other sensory distraction,
[00:19:31] Jesse Lin: I really thought you were going to say she had really bad B.O.
[00:19:34] Angela Lin: No, no, I actually was surprised by how little B.O. I was smelling.
[00:19:42] Jesse Lin: Okay. So then let’s get to some more deeper questions. Maybe give us like your top three takeaways or learnings from the experience. And then I’ll kind of like bucket it out from there, maybe.
[00:19:57] Angela Lin: Yeah. I mean, definitely. Okay. There’s two kinds of two sets of learnings. The technique purely on its own. You were really just supposed to focus on like your body’s sensations.
[00:20:12] Angela Lin: So for example, like just sitting there and like your head starts getting itchy or like your hips hurt because you’re sitting or like you feel cold or you feel like your breath on your, your lip or something like that, like you’re just supposed to focus on like exactly what you actually feel on your body.
[00:20:31] Angela Lin: And if any thoughts come up, you’re supposed to like ignore them and get back to feeling what’s in your body. It’s like, technically from that standpoint, I’ll speak to like what I learned from that, but then there’s the other half where I was like, hmm, maybe I’m not doing this right. Which is the first three days, especially there was a lot of like purging of thoughts because you came into it from like the normal world right? And then you like suddenly come into this, like completely, you know, on your own, no technology, no nothing kind of situation. And your brain’s like going a mile a minute. So during the like purging session, I had other thoughts and other learnings, but I was like, I’m not sure I’m supposed to be having these learnings because I talked to the teacher and I was like, um, am, am I supposed to, like, if I have like a past memory come up, is this like what you’re talking about about like the things we’re supposed to like, let go and whatever.
[00:21:28] Angela Lin: And because I feel like I’ve had some of those where I’ve like had some learnings and she was like, no said essentially, she was like, no, you’re not supposed to think about past memories. You’re just supposed to like focus on your, your body. And I was like, oops. Um, so I had like my own sidetrack learnings as well.
[00:21:45] Angela Lin: Um, okay. So from like the actual, purely the technique, I think my biggest learning, which sounds obvious, but. Um, but it’s just like, it’s not that obvious until you’re like doing this kind of thing and you feel it yourself is like I said, like, you control your own happiness because I think I definitely, I mean, I get like annoyed, easily.
[00:22:11] Angela Lin: I can get angry easily. And like, I can definitely spiral where it’s like, if, especially if I’m like having a bad day or whatever, I’ll be like, oh my God, I can’t believe this person said this to me. And like this happened at work and then I lost my phone or like, whatever, right? Just like focusing on all the external things.
[00:22:28] Angela Lin: And when we learned that thing about like, really, truly you own your own happiness or suffering. I was like, oh, that’s wait. So like that, that’s so powerful because if you like, actually believe that and the thesis is that, like, the reason why we’re focusing on our sensations is that they are cues to you of what’s happening.
[00:22:53] Angela Lin: So like say you get angry, right. And you’re kind of in like a blind rage and like, you’re not thinking. The hope is that by practicing this over and over again, you’ll start recognizing like, oh, when I get angry, my heart starts beating faster. And like my hand starts clenching or like, I start, I have a slight cold sweat or something, right? And so the hope is that you’d start recognizing those feelings in your body quickly and be like, oh, I’m angry right now. And then you get that moment to decide like, do I want to stay angry and like make myself even more upset or do I want to like, try to let this go knowing that anger and anything else is just a fleeting feeling like it doesn’t ever last forever, nothing lasts forever in the world, right? So like, if I know that this is going to pass, do I let it linger longer? Or do I just let it pass now so that I can like focus on whatever needs to happen, as opposed to focus on being like, super emotional about it. So it doesn’t mean like you just let people walk all over you, but what it means is that instead of screaming and like crying and trying to like, get out your point of view through those means you can more calmly state, like what bothered you and what you need as opposed to be lost in the emotion. So that was like really powerful to me to learn because I was like, oh, that’s true. Because when I get angry, I can be angry for like the rest of the day.
[00:24:29] Angela Lin: You know what I mean? Like I could just be like lost. Um, and so when I realized like that’s on me, like yes, external forces can like, you know, plant the seed for me, but it’s on me if I let myself be miserable the rest of the time after that. So that was definitely like my biggest takeaway from the technique purely. Um, and then from like the side side learnings I wasn’t supposed to be having, um, man, well I’m just like airing my dirty laundry now, but, um, yeah, I think my biggest one
[00:25:08] Jesse Lin: Let us have it!
[00:25:09] Angela Lin: Well, you’re just getting an inner peek into like my therapy that’s evolved long and hard. Um, so I, I. Yeah. I’ve like in the past had kind of like revelations where I’m like, okay, I care a lot about what people think number one, right? That’s like one thing I just like have come to terms with, and in the past, I’ve also separately explored the concept of like, oh, I kind of feel like I was abandoned as a child. Um, and it’s not an obvious one because my parents didn’t get divorced. Like I wasn’t put up for adoption, you know, it’s not like, surface level, easy to understand why I would feel that. Um, and when I was doing my side revelations during this meditation technique, I kind of put those two things together, where I was like, oh, I seek other people’s attention and like validation from outside forces all the time, because I never felt like I got paid attention to, or given the love that I needed.
[00:26:11] Angela Lin: And I feel abandoned. I feel like I was abandoned when I was a child. Um, and so it was like, I had like so many past memories come up of just like random little instances of like the way I acted towards a certain person or like a different situation. And it was all like the same learning where it was like, oh, it wasn’t even about that person.
[00:26:33] Angela Lin: It was like, I just need validation because I needed to prove to myself that it was worth something. Um, and yeah, I won’t dig like so deep, but yeah, it was, that was a huge learning for me where I was like, oh wow. Everything stems back to this. That like all of my obsession with why care about what people think about me and comes back to this.
[00:26:57] Angela Lin: So, yeah.
[00:26:58] Jesse Lin: So it’s, it’s the connection of understanding that trying to analyze your physiological reactions to emotion and sensing that beforehand, and then like deciding whether to engage that emotion or not learning number one. And then number two was connecting those two, um, kind of just competing not competing past desires that you had the attention getting and the, uh, some abandonment issues.
[00:27:25] Jesse Lin: Those are your like two big learnings.
[00:27:28] Angela Lin: Yeah. That they were connected.
[00:27:30] Jesse Lin: Anything else?
[00:27:31] Angela Lin: Um, I mean, I think there are a lot of like small things, but I think those were like the two giant ones. Oh, actually, no, sorry. I take that back. The other thing is that…
[00:27:42] Jesse Lin: Ooo juicy!
[00:27:43] Angela Lin: Um, no, not that juicy there’s these were like the biggest, like personal insights.
[00:27:46] Angela Lin: But, um, remember how I said I was convinced to do it because I felt like it might be a step towards figuring out my own spirituality. So when I learned that this technique was created by Buddha. I was like, wait, like, I didn’t know that, um, 360 and also three, no, 360. Cause coming back to full circle, right?
[00:28:12] Angela Lin: Um, yeah. And what I really enjoyed about all these, um, all these days is that at night there were one hour, what they called discourses, which is they had like video recordings of the original teacher. Um, Kind of explaining what you were going through that day and also kind of telling like stories and parables from like Buddhist days of like, why, why this was kind of the lesson and like all that stuff.
[00:28:42] Angela Lin: Um, and what I really enjoyed about the way he taught. And the way that he explained how Buddha taught it was, he was like, this has nothing to do with religion. He was like, I don’t care if you’re Buddhist. I don’t care if you’re Christian Jew, like whatever, you can be, whatever, if this is not religious, like you are learning how to control your own mind and to find your own peace.
[00:29:02] Angela Lin: And it should not matter what your religion is. It is about being your own master, essentially. And, kind of with the end goal of like when you are such a master of your own emotions and your peace of mind. You start dissolving your ego because it’s not about you anymore, right? And when you are able to do that, you have more empathy and compassion towards other people and want to serve other people.
[00:29:30] Angela Lin: So that is kind of like the end goal and what truly enlightened people do is they don’t think about themselves. They think about other people and like how to help other people. Um, and so I just, like, I was kind of blown away cause I was like, wow, this is like, this is like spirituality I can understand because it’s not about like practicing certain things.
[00:29:54] Angela Lin: And he said that often he was like, this is not about like rites and rituals and like things you just like take at face value. This is about truths that you learn in your own body and your own mind. And therefore you can actually accept because you’re experiencing it yourself. It’s not about like reciting things or like just like blindly doing XYZ.
[00:30:16] Angela Lin: And he also – he taught me more about Buddha than I think we ever learned at temple, frankly, because he was like, you know, Buddha was – number one he was a real human. But then after he died was when Buddhism was created. And he was like, actually during Buddhist time, he was like, I don’t want a religion.
[00:30:35] Angela Lin: Like, don’t make a religion from me. I don’t want this. Cause he was like this, actually making a religion in my name will limit the number of people who learn this technique, because then they’ll think that it’s a religious thing and really it’s for everyone to like find liberation in themselves. So I was just like, whoa, like mind blown kind of.
[00:30:56] Angela Lin: And I definitely. See this kind of like self-improvement thing, um, even before the meditation retreat, but I kind of came to that conclusion that like my self growth on this journey was my, my own path towards spirituality. And I feel like this is just such an like practical way for me to like, develop that further.
[00:31:17] Angela Lin: And I see the real benefits because I’m not like I’m not perfect now. And I definitely still get angry and like, I still get agitated, but just knowing that like, I can like catch myself faster and kind of like minimize how much damage I’m causing to myself and other people is huge. And like, just thinking about how much further I can get in, you know, years from now.
[00:31:42] Angela Lin: If I stick to this, I’m just like, it’s worth it. And it is like gonna make me a better person and hopefully help other people too, if I’m not so self-absorbed.
[00:31:55] Jesse Lin: Wow. That’s really cool. No, it really is. Um, I wanted to ask, like, so is the ultimate objective to kind of purge yourself of all emotion or are there situations where an emotion is appropriate to engage?
[00:32:10] Angela Lin: So it’s, it’s really hard to understand because actually Ramon has always told me this and I was like, I don’t know what that even means. Which is um, you’re allowed to feel your emotion. Like you still, your end goal is not to be a robot and to like, not feel anything, the goal is to feel it, but to be able to recognize it and not let it take you over.
[00:32:36] Angela Lin: So you aren’t supposed to. Yeah. You, I mean to what you’re saying, you are not supposed to like indulge the emotion really ever. You’re allowed to feel it and like, you know, I acknowledge it, observe it, acknowledge it, but you’re not allowed to be like, okay, I’m angry. So I’m going to be fucking angry right now.
[00:32:59] Angela Lin: I mean like that’s so yeah, it was like to the extreme, which is it’s like, we’re not all Jesus and we’re not all Buddha, right? But he was like, I mean, the extreme example is Jesus, who was crucified by his like enemy people who thought they were his enemies, right? And he’s like the real testament to whether someone was in lightened person or not is what their state of mind was when they were dying.
[00:33:28] Angela Lin: And he was like, when Jesus, the human died, all he had in his mind was compassion and love for the people who were torturing him to death, because he was essentially thinking like, these poor souls don’t know what they’re doing. They don’t know that they’re hurting themselves by doing this to me. So like, that’s kind of the goal.
[00:33:50] Angela Lin: It’s like, you’re not, it’s not that you don’t feel anything. It’s, it’s just that like, things don’t get to you as much anymore because you’re focused on. You know that everything’s kind of temporary and you know, that the end goal is like compassion and love for other people. So there’s no reason to like dwell on. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:34:10] Jesse Lin: It’s like this. Um, it’s, it’s very similar to what, what they say in Calm like many of the Calm things, which is like, feel your emotion, but try to not react to it because it builds the emotion in like a really negative way. Yes. Awesome. Cool. Um, what did it feel like to be separated from conversation and people like, did you introspect about like, did you ever think like, oh my God, like, or were you like in the dining hall and be like, look at my eyes, look at me.
[00:34:42] Angela Lin: Well, you’re not supposed to make eye contact, so no, you weren’t doing that. Um, I told you that no eye contact.
[00:34:49] Jesse Lin: No, I know, but it’s just like so hard. Cause it’s like your natural instinct to be like, you know, to smile at someone or to like look at their face. Yeah.
[00:34:58] Angela Lin: Yeah. I mean, it’s not like exactly perfect silence, because like I said, you’re allowed to ask questions to the teacher and then you have a, um, each side has what they call a course manager, which is essentially kind of like your babysitter for the week.
[00:35:13] Angela Lin: There’s like one woman and one man and their whole job is to like, make sure you have what you need that week. So you were talking to that person sometimes too, where you’re like, hey, I need like a prop for my knees because they’re fucking dying in this sitting position or whatever, right? So you’re not like silent, silent, um, with absolutely no talking.
[00:35:32] Angela Lin: Um, but. It was, uh, I mean, you asked kind of like, what’s going in your head and stuff like that. Um, you do start like making up stories or like I did where I was like making up what I thought people’s lives were like. I mean, like I said, the majority of the time, you’re just meditating, but I’m talking about like when you’re in the dining hall or like you’re like walking around on the walking paths and you’re like past people, you kind of like, I think you pick up more on people’s like, you know, the way they walk and like the way they kind of like hold themselves and like little habits that they’re doing, and you don’t know anything about them because you haven’t talked to them or anything.
[00:36:11] Angela Lin: But, um, like there was one woman that like walked the entire hour every time. And she kinda had like this like really strong walk and I was like, this lady’s a bad-ass like, she’s probably like, you know, like making up things in my head. Um, so, but yeah, that’s all you can do cause you’re not interacting with anyone. You have one day at the end where you get to talk to people.
[00:36:35] Angela Lin: Um, because it’s technically 10 days of active stuff, right? But, um, starting 10th day morning, you do like one group meditation and then they break the slience and you’re allowed to talk again, um, which is actually like, kind of weird because there were more meditations after that, where then you had to like get back into it.
[00:37:00] Angela Lin: And it’s really hard once you stop the silence. Um, and honestly like you and I have talked about like the social awkwardness of COVID like getting back to the social stuff, dude, not talking for 10 days. I was like, oh my God, because we, we broke the silence. Everyone kind of went back to their rooms to like pee.
[00:37:18] Angela Lin: And then like, I heard a bunch of talking in the hallway and I was like, what’s going on? And then I came out of my room and there was just like this giant circle of women talking, like they all kind of gathered in the hallway and we’re like talking and I walked slowly and intrepidly up to the group and I was like, what’s happening?
[00:37:38] Angela Lin: And they’re all just like so loudly talking and I was overwhelmed, like overwhelmed. I’m like, y’all just went from like silence to like, you know? Yeah. So it’s a lot.
[00:37:52] Jesse Lin: I actually was going to take out, take back my statement in the beginning. Cause I’m, I’m just thinking about it now. Like I feel like if I was in the same space with people not talking acknowledging in any way, like saying that they exist and then on the 10th day was asked to talk to them, I would be like, I’m I’m good. I’m good.
[00:38:11] Angela Lin: Yeah, I hid my room a little more than the other people. I was like, I don’t know if I want to…
[00:38:18] Jesse Lin: So speaking of you, I mean, once you got to the point where your brain was mostly emptied out and you’re just like feeling your body, are there any recurring sensations that were like the strongest?
[00:38:31] Angela Lin: Yeah. So I am apparently a very itchy person or like, I think, I think people get itchy more than we think we do until you are only paying attention to your body because we do so many things like without thinking, right? Like most of the time when you have an itch, you don’t even notice it. You’re already scratching your nose before you realize it, and then it’s over and you’re your, you didn’t even register it now. It’s like, oh, I’m supposed to like realize every time there’s an itch. Wow. I’m itchy a lot. Like, so, um, itch was a big one. Um, and then kind of one of the like later stages you’re supposed to reach is, um, after you can get past like the itchiness, the like pain, the air like random, more like blatant sensations. You are theoretically supposed to start feeling kind of like a subtle vibration everywhere in your body. And this is because one of the things that he also kind of set up early is like, um, this is a very kind of like objective technique of like re reality as it is.
[00:39:44] Angela Lin: And he was like, if you think about it, everything in the universe is just subatomic particles, including us, right? We just happen to be formulated into these blobs of atoms that make up a human, but at like our base, if you like keep micro scoping us down. We’re just particles.
[00:40:03] Angela Lin: Right? So he was like the vibrations you feel if you actually get to that point is because you’re so in tune with your body and what’s actually happening, the true sensations, you’re feeling, you’re feeling the vibrations of the particles in your body, like vibrating. Um, so like, uh, not end goal because the goal again is to like, just be fully aware and like be equanamous or whatever, but sensation, sensorially one of the later stage hopes is that you just feel vibrations and you like kind of lose track of your body and you just kind of melt into these vibrations because that’s ultimately what we are. Um, and, and yeah, so I only got to that point almost once, um, deep in the like blackout room pagodas cell.
[00:41:03] Angela Lin: Um, but if you get past the like itchiness and whatever, another recurring sensation is like subtle vibration, but not necessarily everywhere. Like, I happen to feel it quite a bit in my hands. Um, usually, like, I can feel it right now, but it’s not everywhere all the time.
[00:41:21] Jesse Lin: Hmm. And, and the point of, um, the point of it, when you encounter, like, let’s say your itchiness or like hot or whatever is to, you’re not supposed to react to it, like same with emotions or you’re just supposed to kind of observe it.
[00:41:33] Angela Lin: Yeah. So there’s, you’re supposed to get to the point where you’re retraining your mind for how you think about these things. So it’s not like itch bad vibration good. It’s supposed to just be like, itch is itch. Vibration is vibration. Yeah. Um, he also said like the suffering that we inflict on ourselves is caused by two main things.
[00:41:56] Angela Lin: One is craving and one is aversion and everything boils down to that. So like, if you’re like, oh, the vibrations feel so good. I want to feel this more than you’re craving that vibration. And then when you don’t get the vibration, you get upset because you’re like, what the heck? I was like, I felt those really nice feeling before and now I don’t feel anymore.
[00:42:14] Angela Lin: I’m angry. And then on the flip side, Why am I so itchy? Will this itch never go away? Right? Then you’re making yourself angry from that sense. So he was like everything in everything in the world, in terms of like your interactions with external forces comes down to craving and aversion, and your goal is to reduce both and just be equanamous where everything’s kind of like meh like I I’m I’m good.
[00:42:39] Jesse Lin: All right. Well, listeners, we’re going to move on to the Fortune Cookie, cause we always like to end on a sweet treat. My question for you. Um, I wrote here is, would you recommend it and was it too intense? Like, would you re like what kind of person would you recommend it to where it’s like, you’re like good on that. And what kind of person would you say like, you might need to do some, like pre-work before you sign up for this.
[00:43:06] Angela Lin: 10 out of 10 recommend to every human on the planet. Um, it’s not easy. It’s not going to be easy. Like I said, I didn’t really meditate before. So there’s no real prep you can do though, because like, we had heard this before, too, from some friends who did it, where I was like, really hyping it up where I was like, I don’t meditate.
[00:43:27] Angela Lin: How am I going to do this? And they’re like, honestly, it doesn’t matter if you meditate or not, because you’re not going to be ready for this. Like you’re meditating for 10 to 11 hours a day. You cannot possibly prep for that. Even if you meditate every day for 20 minutes, you’re never going to be mentally or physically ready for that.
[00:43:48] Angela Lin: So just deal with it. Like it’s, it’s almost similar to psychedelics where you have to just like learn to let go, because that’s, what’s going to happen is like you have to let go. Um, but if you can get past that hurdle of like, that’s going to be your state for 10 days, I genuinely feel like this is beneficial to every single person ever. I mean, because it is, it’s just learning how to control your own happiness and like what’s. Um, and I actually am so like bought in on this, that like the prescription that they give us as on our way out is you’re supposed to meditate every morning and every night, one hour each for the rest of your life.
[00:44:32] Angela Lin: And it’s, it’s only been like a week since I left, but I’ve been doing it. And I like, I’m going to try my best to stick to it because I see the potential of like what it can do for not just my happiness, but like also those around me, right? If I can be a kinder person because of like being able to control my own emotions better.
[00:44:56] Angela Lin: Why wouldn’t I try that. Um, so I’ve already recommended it to my parents, my brother, like my friends, I’m like telling everyone to do it. Um, and what’s cool is that it’s not like a one-shot thing. Um, so like I said, you were like theoretically supposed to meditate for the rest of your life. Um, every day does to a certain extent, but he also says at the end that like…
[00:45:16] Angela Lin: So once you have done it, once you are considered an old student and everyone who’s only done it, or it’s like their first time they’re called a new student. So old students are recommended to redo the 10 day course once every year. So it’s not like, oh, I graduated from this thing and I’m now like a master.
[00:45:34] Angela Lin: It’s like, you’re on this path and it’s like a lifelong path. Um, and they have this really cool program where for old students, you can either sit in on another program or you can be a server. So something I didn’t mention is that all of this is nonprofit and volunteer based. So everyone who’s working is a volunteer.
[00:45:57] Angela Lin: The teachers are volunteers, the course manager is a volunteer, the people who serve you and cook the food for you are volunteers. Um, and you’re only able to stay there from the generosity of others. So everyone at the end of the course is allowed to donate money, but there is no actual cost to the program.
[00:46:17] Angela Lin: So it’s free and you’re not allowed to donate until the end after you’ve gone through the whole thing, because then you can evaluate for yourself kind of like what the value was that you think you got out of it, as opposed to just like blindly having to pay an amount. Um, so old students can be servers.
[00:46:34] Angela Lin: So those are really cool because basically. You are also there for 10 days, but you’re, again, you’re like cooking and serving the food during meal times, and then three hours a day you get to join the group in the meditation hall and you’re also meditating. So it’s kind of like an active way of practicing what you’ve learned of like this compassion for other people and serving other people.
[00:46:59] Angela Lin: Cause you’re like literally doing that while you’re alongside working on your meditation during those group times. So I think for me the next time I do this, I want to sign up as a server actually.
[00:47:12] Jesse Lin: Awesome. Well, I can’t wait to hear what the, what the perspective is from a server’s lens when you do do it. Cool. Is there, like, is there anything else you’d like to let the listeners know?
[00:47:24] Angela Lin: No, I mean, I am like, I honestly, I had such a great experience and like, I think it’s so worthwhile that, like, I know we always say write us in with any questions. So like, part of me kind of wants to do like an AMA or something. Like if anyone’s ever been interested about doing a silent meditation retreat or meditation retreat, something like this, like, I will answer anyone’s question because I genuinely think it’s beneficial to everyone. So yeah, email us anything. Telluswhereyourefrom@gmail.com or drop off, drop us a DM or like write in the comments on the Instagram post when I put this up of like, I mean, I’m happy to do like a one hour a day or whatever, to just like answer anyone’s questions that you have.
[00:48:09] Angela Lin: I don’t know where else to start talking about it. I have so much I could say about it. So I’ll just kinda like leave it at whatever questions people have. I will happily explore with you. Yes. Um, thank you for joining us this week. Come back next week because we will have another fresh episode for you then.