Note: Transcript fully created by automated AI
[00:00:00] Jesse Lin: Hello everyone. I’m Jesse Lin.
[00:00:02] Angela Lin: And I’m Angela Lin. Welcome back to another episode of Where Are You Really from Today, we have another mini for you and we are talking about polyamory and conversion Marvel, which I don’t know if everyone knows what that word is. I certainly didn’t until fairly recently.
So we found this whole like community of people that were really interested in discussing this topic of kind. Untraditional relationship structures, and in that episode it was specifically about open relationships, but a lot of people were chiming in to the comments talking about polyamory and. , uh, someone explicitly said practice conversion when you were talking about, uh, getting jealous of some, you know, trying to manage Yes.
The jealousy. Yeah. So that’s why we wanted to talk about it, because it seems like it’s very interesting to all of you as a kind of follow up to that original episode. So I think to get us started, we should kind of define what these things are because I’m not gonna lie, when, when the people first like entered the comments and they were like, uh, blah, blah polyamory, I was like, is that the same thing as open relationship?
Like it was very confusing to me. I didn’t really know if it was different. Um, so. , I think consensus is that it is different there. They can be related and have a little bit of crossover, but it is different. And kind of, I guess the, the like highest level difference is that open relationships are largely within like a primary relationship where the partners are.
Largely looking for sex outside of that primary relationship. Whereas polyamory is like, like fundamentally based in the concept of having multiple people in your life that you love and have like emotional attachment to. And obviously sex is like a component of that, but it is like you, there was no singular primary relationship.
It’s almost like. There’s not like a rank order necessarily of partners. Yeah,
[00:02:18] Jesse Lin: that’s, that’s what I found. That makes a ton of sense. Um, and should we define conversion then for the listeners? So I feel like generally speaking, conversion is basically just like this kind of like compassion or. Love that you have for your partner when you see them enjoying themselves.
And that can be with like another person. It could be them doing whatever they like, but basically you vibe because your partner is having a good time. I’m doing more reading on this. I actually, uh, purchased a book called Opening Up. I forgot the author’s name, Tristan something. But it’s basically another book similar to ethical slides that describes different relationship forms and has practices and tips on like how to.
we’ll work on those particular relationships. And it’s kind of funny because they do have a lot of like labeling in the book. So like this relationship structure is called this. But basically at the, at, at the beginning of every single chapter, it’s like, we call it this, but like you may or may not feel like your relationship fits into this kind of descriptor.
And if that’s the case, that’s totally fine. This is just like for the purpose of. Making it easy for people to understand classification, but like your relationship, like with all open relationships is probably completely unique. And you have different like rules, you have different methods of coping with challenges, and that’s completely fine that it doesn’t fit within this structure.
For me, I think it’s kind of funny because I, I do fit with what you were. My partner and I are in an open relationship. He’s my primary romantic partner and like also like for the most part, primary sexual partner. And then there are like other people like in our circle that are like attached. But I find it’s particularly interesting because I can’t say that everybody that is not primary is also just a friend, if that makes sense.
So they’re like certain people where I’m like, I’m really crushing on them. Like I have this. , it’s not a friend thing because I’m like, I don’t crush on my friends this way. Like I don’t have these feelings for my friends. It’s something like in between. It’s kind of just like I have more emotions for certain people in my network that I know and some like some of them I don’t even necessarily, like I’ve only hooked up with them like once or something and it’s just like the crush is there because we talk a lot and like we have like fun conversation and.
I do find that, that, it’s funny because there’s like a elements or aspects of these different concepts in my relationship type, even though it’s not like a full multi romantic partner thing.
[00:04:59] Angela Lin: Yeah. I guess the, the thing that’s like interesting to me because I’m not in these like untraditional structures mm-hmm.
Is the more I was reading up on these different types of relationships, the more. It’s interesting because we talked about this in the open relationships episode that like most people who aren’t in these structures think of just like it’s free for all. And it’s like, it’s just like, do whatever you want.
But even with polyamory, um, cuz we talked about with open relationships, you guys have like a very specific way of functioning and like yeah, you’ve like set boundaries and explicit, like in these situations, this is how we will act kind of thing. And in polyamory, I think my idea when I. Thought about it was like, it sounds more loose to me than open relationships because it is more like to, the idea of having like multiple, like quote unquote equal partners, romantic partners already makes it feel like there isn’t necessarily like a rural structure, but from what I read, it is common, but like everyone’s different.
Right. But it’s common that you do still have. A certain setup. So like an example they gave was like, um, you have like two primary partners and maybe they each also have like another partner mm-hmm. . So like that’s your group. Yeah. And it’s not okay for like a pod to bring like add additional people in.
Yeah. It’s like agree that like this is the like mutual love kind of zone. And then like outside of that is like you have to talk about it. It’s not like a given that you just like bring whoever in. Hey listeners, wondering how you can support us. The biggest way is by increasing our visibility by following us on Instagram at where are you from?
Pod on TikTok at, but where are you really from? Subscribing to our YouTube channel Under, but where are you really? From podcast rating and reviewing us on Apple Podcasts and telling your friends, the more people we can get to listen to the show, the more we can continue spotlighting different perspectives and.
And if you feel so inclined, we’re also accepting donations at buy me a coffee.com/where are you from? Thanks y’all.
[00:07:09] Jesse Lin: The way that I think about it is like I, I can’t imagine any kind of structure, like any kind of relationship object like this without any kind of structure. So I would imagine if you have multiple romantic partners, maybe you don’t have the exact same agreement with each one, but there is an agreement with each person and.
two of your romantic partners have an agreement with each other because they want, they want to see each other, or they just have an agreement to like manage their time with you. But for sure, I, I can’t see it being successful without that kind of discussion because honestly, like when it comes down to it, I feel like the, probably the biggest limiter of having multiple romantic partners is time.
Like you only have so much time in the week, you still want to ha hang out with your friends, like, It, it’s not really possible to foster like a really deep relationship with that many people. You only have so many hours of the day. The whole idea of polyamory and even open relationships kinda like scared me at first cause I was like, how am I gonna manage like my feelings around this?
And like, it just seems like really complicated. And even once I learned about like, that there were detailed structures to the relationship and it’s like a very choiceful thing that you discussed with your partner. And I was like, this sounds really complicated, like multiple conversations, like you have to check in with people like, but honestly, at the end of the day, I found that it’s, it actually reduces complexity because you’re really upfront with what you want and whether or not you’re satisfied.
So I feel like a lot of the times there’s this like shame that. you take in within yourself when you’re not happy in the relationship. Cuz you’re like, what am I doing that’s wrong, where this isn’t working? Or you reflect that back to your partner where you’re like, what is that person doing wrong? That is, but I think that once you, you know, remove that and you’re really clear with what you want, it becomes less of like a good and a bad conversation.
And it’s more just about can this person give you what you want? Like, you know, your. , is that person gonna bring that to the table? And if they can’t, that’s fine. That doesn’t mean they’re a shitty person. It doesn’t mean that they’re a bad person. It doesn’t mean like you can’t have some kind of relationship with them.
It just means that you, they can’t meet you where you need them to meet you for your relationship to be at a certain level. Um, and. When I describe like that logically I’m like, this sounds great. Obviously there’s still like, as you kind of work through different challenges and when you’re having a bad week and your emotions are whack, like you still feel really whack sometimes because logical things don’t necessarily help you process emotions.
Correctly. But I do, I do feel like this relationship structure makes the most sense. And even a lot of the like, ethical slut and this opening up, uh, book, they talk about how like some people come in, they do the exploration and they’re like, no, monogamy is for me. Like this is my choice. Which is also like a completely valid, like you, you’ve, you’ve done the work.
You looked. Where your strong, your strong suits are, like what things will make you happy and you made a choice. Um, and I think that that’s kind of the most important thing that underpins like all these things, is that they’re just very choiceful examination of your relationship and deep understanding of your needs.
Like what makes you upset, what makes you tick, what makes you happy, and like bringing everything to the table so that it’s. Really open conversation about what everything, everybody wants, everybody needs, and to try to make everybody, um, satisfied in, in that kind of situation.
[00:10:42] Angela Lin: Yeah. What I loved about our discussion last time around open relationships was that it just felt like.
open communication was kinda like the underlying like foundation that was required to make something like this work. So for me, thinking about like, would this kind of thing work for me? I mean there’s, there are many factors why. Any given person or couple would consider or not consider this kind of stuff.
But for me, I think the bare minimum stuff would be like you have to be committed to having really open and honest communication and you have to have a lot of trust. Yeah. In your partner? Yeah. Um, because like going back to the idea of conversion, right? Which is like, it’s funny because I was like, is this a made up word?
Like I, yeah, I like never heard this word . Um, and actually it was made up, I mean, all words were made up at some point, but like, it was made up in the nineties apparently, by a polyamory group based in San Francisco. So, um, but yeah, it, it’s difficult for me to kind of like wrap my head around. Concept of like, uh, other ways that people describe conversion.
Conversion is the opposite of jealousy, which is like easier stuff than done. Yeah. But like essentially trying to like minimize the jealousy and convert that more into like mutual, like love and support for your partner when they are Yeah. Enjoying themselves, whatever. Yeah. For me, it’s just like that idea, especially when it comes to like polyamory, is like I, I personally can’t do it because like, I think it actually is, like, I read a study that like women in particular are like more.
Um, challenge with the idea of their partner emotionally stray from them Mm. Than sexually stray from them. Like most women would rather have them have a one night stand than to say, I’ve fallen in love with somebody else. Mm. Because it’s like a much deeper cut. So I personally don’t think I could like, ever deal with the idea of polyamory.
Okay. Because it’s like I have to. That I’m not the only person that my husband loves and like, feel good about it and feel like supportive about it and like be friends with that person. It just like that idea is like very difficult for me to, to wrap my head around.
[00:13:06] Jesse Lin: It’s honestly, it’s not an easy thing and you kind of, for me, you kind of just worked through it.
But I, I also, it’s, I can see the evolution. Like there are moments where, for example, we went out recently and John was like, really interested in this guy that I recently moved to the city and I was like, you should go talk to him. I think that would be really cute. Like it would cute and fun moment for you and also like potentially for us, if anything like tangly ever happened.
So I was like, go for it. Like. sounds fun, but I also think like, I don’t know, sometimes like you, you talk about Ramon, like how much like awesomeness, he’s like added to your life. Like would it make you happy if someone was able to add that same level of awesomeness to his life? But it doesn’t change anything are are you saying that I
[00:13:51] Angela Lin: don’t add?
No, no.
[00:13:52] Jesse Lin: You do level. You do. But someone else can add like a different flavor of awesomeness.
[00:14:00] Angela Lin: Personally, no. Okay. . That’s an fair for me dog. That’s, and that’s why it’s everyone’s kind of like choice Yeah. On these things. Because also this is something we talked about in the open relationships. Mm-hmm.
episode, I think a lot of. The other kinda like foundational element for making this work is either like you love your partner so much that you’re like, I just like anything that makes you happy will make me happy. So even if I don’t partake in finding other partners, I’m happy for you to be like exploring.
I think that is, The minority of cases. Yeah, that’s like a very, it’s mostly, yeah, it’s, that’s like ultimate comp conversion, right? Yeah. Because that’s like literally you’re just doing it because you like, love this other person. Mm-hmm. versus a lot of times it is that both partners seek kind of like equal or relatively equal.
Like they want that opportunity to seek other partners, um, to fulfill needs. , they, they want filled. And for me personally, and I think for other people who are like, oh, I couldn’t do this kind of structure, it’s. if you don’t both want it. Like it just doesn’t feel fair and it doesn’t feel like it’s worth it because it’s like, okay, I love you, but to make you like incrementally happier.
I don’t get anything in return and I have the threat of potentially losing you if you fall in love with somebody else that you bring in is like how I view it because I’m not the one who’s like interested. Certain thing pursuing outside things. So then it’s like, what’s in it for me, ? You know, like that’s kind of the, the challenge I think for a lot of more like traditionally monogamous type thinking.
[00:15:38] Jesse Lin: Yeah. Yeah. There isn’t, I think there isn’t anything in it for you. Like it’s not, the value exchange is not a specific thing that the person wants to, if the value exchange is freedom, so it. Your partner has freedom to do what he wants with your partner, has the freedom to do something that he wants, that you don’t want to explore with him.
But the same thing is true. You also get the freedom from your partner to explore something that. He is not particularly interested in doing.
[00:16:04] Angela Lin: Yeah. Yeah. Like for me, I have a lot of respect for the way that you laid out the way that your relationships works in the open relationships episode, because like I said, it sounds, it sounds like it’s a lot of work honestly, to like be really self-aware and to like be vulnerable, to express like your actual, your exact needs and like your boundaries and like set up these rules.
So I have a lot of respect for that kind of like effort to maintain this type of structure. because that is so much effort. I’m like, why would I put in that much effort if I’m the one who’s getting nothing outta this is like, you’re gonna get to play and I get nothing but to like know that you’re incrementally happier.
[00:16:41] Jesse Lin: I don’t know. I think that’s a fair thing to that. That’s a fair, fair thing to say and, and that could be one of those reasons why some people choose monogamy because they’re like, I don’t have a reason to go outside of the relationship. Like I’m fully satisfied with my partner and that’s fine. . Yeah. Yeah.
All of you listening, we would love to hear from you, hear what you think about this mini conversation. If you yourself are in an untraditional relationship structure, the practices that you also employ to help make your relationship work, or if you’re happily in a mono monogamous relationship, we would also love to hear what things you, what things you do to keep things going.
Yeah,
[00:17:20] Angela Lin: so drop us a comment wherever you’re watching this currently, so that we can start up. Engaging conversation on the topic and come back next week because we’ll have another fresh episode for you then.