Jesse Lin 0:19
This week, we’re bringing you the last episode of 2020. And in honor of a year that was so extra, our last episode this season is going to be about how we have also been questionable extra this and doing the most where we can. So that’s really what this last episode is about. It’s about doing the most trying to overachieve, and what are the benefits and consequences. Shall we get into it?
Full Transcript (Note: Transcribed via AI, may contain errors)
Angela Lin 0:55
But basically just being Asian? Always trying to overachieve?
Jesse Lin 1:03
I mean, like last year, going into this year 2019 going into 2020 I was like, 2020 I’m gonna just blow it out of the water. Like, I’m gonna do like, everything over the top everything extra and Miss Rona beat me to the punch. So yeah, it’s been a really interesting and I wanted to talk about this particular issue well not issue, but this particular topic, because I feel like a lot of people are really can not confuse maybe confused, or confused or unsure of like what they should be doing during this time. Because it is a lot of extra time, right? A lot of people if you’re able to work from home, you’re getting the time back, that you would spend commuting or doing other nonsense things that are the process – they’re a part of the process of going to work. But I feel like a lot of people have been struggling with like, what do I do with this time? Because on one hand, you have the time, but on the other hand, everything is such a slog that it just seems so difficult to like, get yourself motivated to do anything, honestly. What about you? Like what are you thinking? And what are you thinking and hearing about 2020 and this feeling with your friend group and stuff?
Angela Lin 2:21
I’m with my friend group. I mean, it’s mixed in my friend group. And I think generally there are a lot of people who feel a lot like what you just described of like, well, we have all this time now but like, I’m bored also I’m lonely and like I don’t know what to do with this. Um, for me I have a like opposite feeling of all this which is I i’m not saying this is a good year. This is like a pretty shitty year all around for everyone, right, like, and our world frankly. But I do feel like those of us who are already lucky enough that like, you know, we didn’t lose our jobs or have anything like significant happen that we didn’t get Coronavirus. We didn’t have anything else, like significant happened to us during this time. I honestly feel like this was a blessing in disguise for people of that group. Because you do suddenly have all this newfound time and like, to be fair, it’s what you make of it. But like, I think I talked about this, a few episodes back, but like, I’ve never been more productive in my life than during quarantine. Because I you can only watch so much Netflix like I started out quarantine like that.
Jesse Lin 3:36
Oh, hold on there.
Angela Lin 3:38
Haven’t you seen the memes that are like they finished watching Netflix at this point. Like you. I feel like I started quarantine being more like that or is like the world of shit. I’m not motivated to do anything. I’m just gonna like binge every Netflix show. And like I started that way. And then after a while I was like, I’m bored frankly, of doing this. And then I like started stump.. – well, it gave me time to like, reflect on my life and like what I wanted to be doing with it and like, where I’m spending my time and like pursuits that I’ve thought about that I didn’t ever try like this podcast we’ve talked about but like this literally started because we had extra time because of quarantine and like look at us now. So there’s that and then like now that I’m in this groove of like hey, why don’t I try this thing? Like I can’t stop trying new things. And I think it’s fun that I’m like hey, what do I have to lose and like what else am I doing literally nothing so like, I’m just going to ignore it so I I didn’t go into 2020 like you thinking like 2020 is my year I’m going to be extra like go all out. I did not think that at all like whatever here’s a new year. So I didn’t have different expectations of the year and then it like came in surprise me with how much I did with it.
I think that’s amazing, honestly, like, I have, I just, I have no idea how you do it to me. Because every day I wake up and I’m just like, I need help, like, call 911, call an ambulance. I need help to get through my day. And honestly, I don’t know, I don’t really know quite what it is like, I don’t know if it’s like, because I am so lonely that like I am so stuck on that feeling that I can’t focus on anything, or if it’s just that like, the cumulative churn of the past few years plus, all of this stuff has just really blocked me. And yeah, I’m just I’m finding it like really hard to do the things that I would normally be interested in doing. Like, I think I did some of the things that you were saying, like, I tried some stuff out, like I did a lot more baking, like I bought a little hand mixer and stuff. Um, I invested a lot more in with invested a lot more in toys for my cat so that I could play with it more. Oh, um, what do they do, I like cleaned up my apartment, like I got like real furniture and like some nice things. But I don’t feel like I was able to channel that energy into anything more substantive, if that makes sense. Like, I feel like the stuff that you’re doing is like very substantive towards like your future and stuff. But like, when I when I tried to like focus on stuff like that and think about it, it’s just like, I’m just like, immediately blank. And I just have no motivation to do it do do anything. And it just, it’s so it’s so weird. And anytime I do I feel like I’m doing anything past that. It’s like the most. So extra. So what do you what do you feel like is your motivation to stay productive, or stay like invested in the things that you are interested in doing?
It’s been nice to like, see what I can create with my own hands. So like, I just posted a picture of my little baby bell peppers that I harvested yesterday and like, it’s so satisfying to know that I grew those from the seed like I literally had a bell pepper. It was like at the beginning of quarantine, I think where I was just like, hey, I got time. I have a porch now like or balcony now. Like, I would just try this shit.
Jesse Lin 7:33
I was like porch hold up.
Angela Lin 7:36
Yeah. And so we we cook all the time. And I was like, hey, bell pepper, let’s just try this shit. I just like threw a bunch of things into a jar with soil. And then now I have three beautiful pepper plants that have each produced bell peppers for me. And I’m like, Oh, you came from Little throw away trash seeds. It’s just beautiful to see. And, and then like, similarly, I think I told you. So. What’s funny is that I used to work at Adobe. But when I worked at Adobe, I did not care about Adobe products. And then like this two weeks ago, or whatever, Adobe had its annual MAX conference, the creative conference. And because quarantine is what it is, they couldn’t do it in person anymore. So they made it virtual, it was all free, which is like a big deal because it was a very coveted. It was like the one thing I would have wanted to go to when I was at Adobe, but it’s like, cost a bunch of money and like they wouldn’t give any employees any headcount. So I never went, but now it was free. And so I like learned a bunch of stuff about how to use like Photoshop and their video editing tools and like, and they just have a bunch of videos like really awesome successful people in the creative field and like showing you how they like, make beautiful art and like videos and stuff. And it was super inspirational. And so I I like just bought everything and I’m like learning how to use all the shit now to make my own stuff and it’s nice. No, it’s it’s like, I like that feeling of like, creating something from nothing and like, learning.
Oh, I think that’s cool. I feel like what what they say like the learning mindset is like the most important thing to have to be like flexible into the future and so that you can be like accommodating for the changing future of work or whatever that may be.
Mm hmm.
I definitely that definitely resonates with me, although I feel like I feel like I struggle to maintain a good habit of learning things that I want to learn. Like I have like a million things favorited in the like Lynda learning section because I LinkedIn premium and I keep it specifically so I have access to the Lynda learning section which has like so many, like really great, like intro videos to like, super topical things. I just feel like after a while, I lose steam. Because like, you have to, like learn, like a good amount of basics for some of this stuff before you can start doing and as soon as soon as I get to this hump, I’m like, I can’t do anything with this yet. I’m like, okay, I’m like, I have that problem where I’m not not seeing the bell peppers sprout. So I’m like, Yeah, I feel like a lot of the stuff that I’ve been like, really into I’m like, it’s it, I really enjoy because I can see the fruits of it quite quickly. So like baking is a really good example. Because baking takes maybe like, three hours. End to end, I get something yummy. I can eat it. And plus, like, one of the parts that I really enjoyed about baking, like over the summer and into like, right now early fall ish, is that I could give it to other people. So it was like my excuse to go to other people’s places for like, you know, an hour or two and just stand on the stoop or like on the roof and chat and be like, here’s some cookies and stuff like that. So.
So I think there’s something to that for sure. Because all the stuff that I do, I’m motivated because I benefit from it. It’s not just like I like create, it is cool to see like something you’ve created from scratch, but like that, in and of itself may not be motivating enough for me, like so I also like Romana, and I cook all the time. And one of the quarantine things we started up was like, I got a bunch of Chinese cookbooks. And like, we’ve been learning those recipes. And like, there’s a direct benefit because like we get to eat delicious, like new dishes and like the plants, all of my plants. I don’t have any plants that are okay, sorry, I have one succulent, but outside of that succulent that gets very little love for me tbh is all my plants are ones that bring benefit to us they’re herbs, or it was like a bell pepper, which we will cook and like things that are beneficial have value to me. And like even this designing stuff like I was motivated by it because I was like, I want to like design cool shit for our podcast, or like, I want to like explore selling random crap on Etsy, like, why not? So there’s like a benefit to it that’s driving my interest in it.
Well, let’s talk about the other side of it, which is like doing nothing. So like, have you found the time where you’re doing nothing to be helpful? Not helpful?
Yeah. I had to talk about this with my therapist. Because especially at the beginning of quarantine, when I was like starting up all these hobbies or avenues that I was exploring, like, it was very overwhelming. And honestly, it hasn’t, like stopped being overwhelming. To be honest, I have like three to do lists that are never ending. Yeah, but I had to talk to my therapist about it. And she was like, you need to know that it’s okay to take breaks, and that it’s actually going to benefit you instead of like, detract because in my mind originally I was like, Well, I have like 30 things on my to do list. And so if I don’t even have enough time to like cross off all those things why am I gonna take like an hour to decompress by watching the new episode of whatever on Netflix, right? Like, how can I justify that? And she’s like, you can’t look at it from like, a time perspective. Yeah. And she’s like, yeah, it’s, it’s, it is an investment in you of like, your mental health, and you deserve to disconnect. And it’ll help you be more productive because you won’t be like so wired up and like stressed out the whole time. So I have I have adopted that mentality. Like, I definitely still feel like my to do list is never ending, but I can sense when my body is getting like fucking exhausted from everything doing because also, we’re in quarantine. But we’re also working right? Like, I I still have my like, full time job. And I’m like, fitting in all these like random things I’m learning and doing outside of those hours. So it’s a lot of stress on my mind. So when I feel like I’m reaching burnout, I will just throw on – shout out to Karen I’ve been watching Sabrina. I’ve been like fuckin rewatching all of Sabrina. I’ve gone from like, season one up until now she’s in college. Like I that’s how much I’m binging. Like it’s just my like, filler decompressing thing. And it’s been helpful. It’s been helpful. Yeah.
Jesse Lin 14:54
That’s awesome. Yeah, I also feel like I need lots of time to like, try to like space, things out. And what I realized is that like, when I don’t make that time, like actually all the stuff that I was thinking about, and like pushing aside during the day, because it’s like, oh, it’s work time, or it’s like time to bake or it’s like, whatever it like comes flooding back in those moments where you take a rest, and it’s just overwhelming. So yeah, I found that like having dedicated rest time, and even just doing the meditation and stuff has been like, super helpful to like, process through the thoughts and like, let them flow and not like jam you up, like at the moment where you’re like, I’m ready to relax. The other thing that I feel like that’s blocking a lot of people from having motivation. And like creating a lot of negativity. And also just feeling like a lot is the fact that we don’t have any more space away from work, like there’s no dedicated space. So you can’t really, like pull yourself out of this situation that you’re in, right, because you like spin out of your chair at the end of the day, you have whatever stress that you just left with and you’re literally like in your apartment. And actually maybe like a week or two ago, like I had come back from like, a brunch with friends. And I was like, I feel so good. literally walked in the door. And I was like, I feel terrible now like, it was just like I I was so it was so clear. Like I was just like I can’t believe I’m back in this like jail.
Angela Lin 16:25
Now I feel you completely though i i think the limited workspace like work versus lifespace bothers me a lot more at the beginning of quarantine. And to be honest, moving helped alot. So we moved into a bigger apartment in the middle of quarantine in the same building. But it was we went from a one bedroom to a two bedroom. So now we have like an office that I can keep separate. Because before I was like, doing all my work from the kitchen table, because, yeah, it was like, What am I going to do is like my bedroom or like the living room essentially. Um, and so that was rough because there was no separation because it would be like, well, when I’m done with work, I just like step away from the kitchen table and like go two steps to the couch. So it felt like the same space versus now with the office. I’m like, okay, I don’t want to be in that office anymore, because I’m clocked out. And then I like exit to a different room or like now we have a balcony. So that’s really nice to like sit out there to like feel like I’m in a different space. And I know that not everyone has the luxury of like having multiple spaces so I’m sorry about that. It definitely has helped me like physically compartmentalize my life.
So why do you think we’re always trying to do the most like, why are we always trying to over achieve.
I feel like a common thread of with being raised Asian is that they our parents held us to very high expectations, right? So like, it kind of felt like you were never doing enough or you could never achieve enough. So like even if you were already like in all the honors classes and like also playing violin and like blah, blah blah. It’s like oh, you got an A minus, like, Why wasn’t this an A and I’m like, uh, just crushed my soul. And so I feel like it’s not that overt that that’s the reason but like that wave being brought up or you’re just like constantly the underdog like you feel like you’re just like never looking up so you have to try harder to like be acknowledged like that has definitely stuck with me and is like driving a lot of the way that I operate for sure.
Yeah, I think I agree. Like although it may not be like smack in the face like clear it is definitely like the undercurrents are there like that’s why I feel that’s why like, we’re even talking about this because I’m like, is it normal that I’m not doing anything like when you’re not doing anything, it feels like you’re moving backwards sometimes. And you have to as you said kind of just be okay sometimes that nothing is happening and nothing is changing. Because that’s the nature of things like not are not always are things like moving forward at lightspeed in like a very focused direction like sometimes you just need to like sit where you are and just chill out for a hot second so that you can get your bearings and then go back on your like lightspeed journey to wherever you’re trying to go. And I feel like that’s part of the challenge and it’s such a weird time because everyone is going through the same thing but like different and I don’t want to say like I definitely hear you that like it’s a an upbringing thing. I feel like other people are going through the same thing but everyone is going through it at like different times. So even your normal like your whole Asian thing where you’re like, hey, what’s this bitch doing? Like, did she get an A plus? You can’t really do that, right? Because I was like looking at the beginning, I was looking at some of the people in like the people that I knew in the city and I was like, oh man, like, people are struggling like a lot. I feel okay. And now I’m like, oh, man, people seem okay, but I’m really struggling. So you’re like trying to do all those things that you’re normally like as your as you said, like you’re trying to like keep moving, you’re trying to like see if you’re still the best or like, at least not the last but like, there’s everything is so fucked up that you have like no bearing whatsoever. So you just I’m just like feeling like a little like, I don’t know where I am anymore.
You know, another reason why I am more motivated to keep a certain momentum going is because of how uncertain things are. Because I think there is like when I was very whatevs in the beginning and like unmotivated by much. I think it is because it was like the initial transition between like, normal life of like hustling, doing all the shit and then going to like, okay, we’re, like, trapped doing nothing. That was like completely unmotivating right? And like, yeah, like, flattened our spirits. But I think it also had that effect on me at that time, because it was like, Oh, this is temporary. This is like a temporary, like, gonna be over. But this sucks. So because it’s so temporary, I’m gonna take this chance to like, binge all my shit. And like, do all these, like unproductive things that I don’t care about that I otherwise wouldn’t have time to do, right? But the unproductive stuff. And now because sad to say, like, there’s no end in sight, there’s no clear end in sight, right? Like there’s we’re constantly going through like different phases of reopening, but then we like close back up, like, there’s just like, it keeps going back and forth. And because of how uncertain that is, I think I honestly just hit a point in quarantine, where I recognize that there is no like, definitive end in sight, so I better fucking adapt. Like, there’s no, there’s no point in like moping around the whole time. Because that could be the rest of your life. Like, it’s not going to be the rest of our lives. But like, we don’t know how long it’s gonna last. Like, I just couldn’t bear to think that I would let like, a, it’s already been a full year, right? Like, almost. So like, a full year, two years. Who knows? Right? Like, just go by because I’m like, waiting for it to come back. Right life to come back. And like, so at that point. I was just like, Okay, I’m gonna do it myself. I’m gonna, like, take advantage of this time to like, better my position in life, hopefully, instead of just sitting around so that I think that was the mindset shift for me is just like, accepting the reality of like, how long the shits gonna last potentially.
Jesse Lin 23:10
I really like that. I mean, the way that you’re talking about it is kind of- it isn’t denying that shit sucks. But rather, you’re like reframing your perspective on what’s happening right now to like, benefit yourself. I think that’s super cool. Yeah. So I guess the last thing I may be talking about related to doing the most and our upbringing is like, the consequences of being like always on and not even just now, just like, even before, when we were like speeding through, like our lives, basically, like, I feel like for the most part, like we’re both fairly above average motivated individuals, and we’re like, trying to, like get to where we’re trying to go like really quick. So, I mean, do you feel like there were like any, any kind of backlash or blowback blowback to doing that?
Angela Lin 24:01
Definitively yes. Like, I think the the like, there are different levels of the consequences. There’s definitely just like little things like stress and like, you know, the pressure that you’re constantly feeling, but I know for sure during consulting that like, it had a literal impact on me, which is like one of my last projects I did before I quit. I was like, so stressed out. I’m working so many hours that I broke out in hives, and I’ve like never had hives in my life. I honestly I just like Google it. I was like, What the fuck is going on with my skin? It was like little bumps all over my face. And I was like, I’ve never seen this my life. I don’t know what this is. And I googled it and I was like, might be hives. I don’t know. I didn’t go to a doctor. So I don’t know for sure. Right. But I was freaking out. Yeah, like what the hell is this? And then literally the day after I gave my big client presentation, they went away. So it was directly related to the stress levels that I was putting on myself for the amount of work and like, pressure that I was putting on myself to deliver so it’s like, there’s a direct consequence for sure it’s not like imagined. It’s like it’s real, you can manifest like, your body will manifest physical issues, because you’re ignoring the mental red flags that have been going off for like, a very long time.
Yeah, I have to I definitely agree with you on that. I, I nowhere gotten to like body explosions, stress, but like, also at my last job, like I was to the point where I was like, going to cry in the office and like, you know, me, I’m like, generally very happy go lucky. Like, I’m not very, I don’t not very sad person. I don’t stay sad very long. So that was like, it was like a turning point. For me. I was like, why am I like this miserable over something this small, this is like, not worth my, like, emotional investment to become so entangled in this that my own personal like mental health is being affected. And the other thing that I’ve come to realize, I’ve always kind of known this, but like, I had a conversation with someone about it recently, which is basically like, when you’re doing the most, you tend to pick up and do things which are like you’re not supposed to do, and like your boss will love that, right? You’re like, Oh my god, you’re doing so much extra work. But then when you leave, shit just falls to pieces, right? Because then you’re basically doing like the work of like three other people. And then like those people who should be doing those, those parts of their role don’t want to do them, because you’re doing it. And then they kind of at the end of it, they expect that they don’t have to do and it causes a lot of problems or like a lot of other people involved. So it’s like this fine balance between like doing what’s yours and stepping a little bit into like an extra place, but not stepping so far that you start to become like this pack mule for everyone else, and they start to load everything on you. And I mean, we’ve discussed this in the past, where it’s like, put your head down and do the work. And I I feel like a lot of that is related to that, where you’re just kind of like, well, I can do it. So I’m going to do it. Um, but that doesn’t always benefit you, as you said in terms of your health, and it doesn’t always benefit the people that you’re working with either.
Yeah, going back to one more thing I talked to my therapist about is the, the like, the importance of acknowledgement, and like, recognition from other people is like very important to me. And it’s, it’s like, oh, god, it’s something that like, when I first came to terms with it, I was like, that sounds shallow as fuck, like, why do I care so much about what other people think. But at the same time, I’m like, I can’t deny that that’s like, important to me. And so the, I had to like, realize that a big reason that I was taking on a lot of other work I don’t need to do is to like get that recognition of, you know, from my bosses or like the boss’s boss and whatever. And like, that’s something I’ve been having to curve back on is like recognizing that that like you’re doing this, because of that this is really not going to benefit you that much like there’s it’s not like you’re suddenly going to like get a raise or like suddenly you’re going to get promoted or anything besides like pat on the back. Like, is this really worth what you’re doing? Or is there like a 50% version of this that you could still be doing that would still you know, like check off the box or like even honestly still be above their expectation, but would kill you way less. It’s something that I’ve had to think about a lot. And I’m like constantly trying to recognize while it’s happening, so I don’t burn out.
That’s good. That’s great learnings. So for the Fortune Cookie, we thought we would end 2020 with a more hopeful outlook for 2021 and discuss what our new year’s resolutions will be. So Angela, what are your resolutions?
Yeah, you know, that’s a hard question because I usually don’t like to make new year’s resolutions. I feel like there’s generally a like the idea route on New Year’s resolution is very temporary. You’re like I want to lose 15 pounds. Like and and then people don’t like meet those resolutions because it’s like a very kind of sometimes a lot of it’s like arbitrary and like it’s like a one time goal. So then like even if you hit that then it’s like okay, I guess that’s over now versus like more lifestyle changes. Those are the ones that I can like get behind. So it’s like I want to learn how to cook or I want to like cook more of the meals and the week like that seems more like a good resolution to me then like, I want to lose 10 pounds because it’s like a permanent change in your life. So in thinking about 2021 I think for me, honestly, I just want to keep sounds so, like, cheesy, but I want to just keep maintaining this like, open mentality that I’ve had of like, okay, exploring the things that I have, like, even the tiniest interest in, like, see where it takes me because I feel like those are things I can’t predict where it’s going to take me on, like the benefit that’s going to come from it and like sit generally saying more yes to things than like killing it before I start. I think that’s a that’s a good place to start for 20 21.
Jesse Lin 29:46
That sounds great.
Angela Lin 30:55
Yeah, how about you?
I thought you were gonna say mine for a second. I was like shit. Mine is kind of similar. I want to take all the good habits I formed in this year and retain them. So like doing this, I want to retain this doing the like meditation practice, I want to retain that on continuing my insane fitness journey. Although hopefully like with less intensity and like broken body parts the into 2021 and also like cooking more at home and eating like healthier and lighter meals.
That’s great. Yeah, I do feel like going back to like, making the most of this trapped time. Right? Like we I think a lot of people have learned something new or like gained something positive from it, even if it’s not under the circumstances you wanted it to happen. So like, I love your resolution because it’s just you know, making it an actual sustained part of your life versus like only quarantine.Okay, well my god 2020 is over y’all. If you have thoughts on doing the most all the time, the burnout that comes from that, or you want to share your New Year’s resolution with us, write us in.