Note: Transcript fully created by automated AI
[00:00:00] Angela: Hey everyone. I’m Angela Lin
[00:00:02] Jesse: And I’m Jesse Lin. And welcome back to another episode of, but where are you really? From this week? We’re bringing back a fun. Subject that has appeared in a few of our episodes previously, which is having kids. Oh, baby, baby.
[00:00:19] Jesse: So as you guys may have heard through our various episodes, Angela and I have very different perspectives on having children and bearing this fruit of legacy. What a way to
[00:00:33] Angela: describe it. .
[00:00:35] Jesse: So I think we wanted to actually devote some time to discussing it and really dig into or rehash what our individual perspectives are on it.
[00:00:45] Jesse: And kind of just what our overall thoughts are about having children and the potential difficulties, challenges, and rewards that might come from, from having the kids, the offspring. So. Do you want to kick it off with your recap of your perspective on, on, you know, if you want to have kids, why all that?
[00:01:08] Angela: Yeah. General POV, I think has changed a lot since I’ve grown up. Let’s say like somewhere between five to 10 years ago, I was like, I don’t like kids . Like generally don’t enjoy children. Um, I think it slightly changed after I moved to New York because I have, I think I’ve talked about my cousins that are like super religious, so they have like a million kids mm-hmm okay.
[00:01:37] Angela: I think they actually have like nine, so I, obviously 1 million is exaggerating, but yes, I think they have nine, eight or nine. And when I was, yeah, yeah. When I moved to New York was for college and they’re like the sweetest people cuz you know, they’re super Christian. So, you know, Jesus. Loving, blah, blah, anyways, but um, when I moved there, they only had two kids.
[00:02:00] Angela: So I saw it like really explode over the over the time that I lived in New York. I think when I left, they had five and then they had like more. Yeah. And that was the first time I really had to be around. Children, like there was, there was a panic moment for me. It was, um, one time. I, I was like hanging out with them and, um, the wife, so my cousin’s the guy.
[00:02:24] Angela: And then the girl is his wife, obviously that I’m not like blood related to, but I I’m like closer relationship wise to her. Mm-hmm . Um, but anyway, she and I were. Running an errand and they have this like minivan, obviously, right. To shuttle around all the kids. And she was like, I have to go run inside target to like, grab something.
[00:02:41] Angela: Can you just like, watch all the kids right now? And I was in the parking garage with, I swear to God, like, yeah, it was like five kids. And it was like mayhem because there were a couple that were like strapped to the, um, you know, the car seat, no car seats. I had to like, hold one, which I’m like the most.
[00:03:02] Angela: Awkward with holding babies because I’m like, am I holding this thing? Right. Um, and there were like one or two that were like big enough to be in the seats by themselves, just like jumping around and like causing mayhem. And I was like, am I gonna survive the like 10 minutes that she has left me here, but I will say, okay, so it was mayhem, but that being around them all the time was the first interaction where I was like, you know, I still feel a little bit of this, like mirror towards kids.
[00:03:29] Angela: I can see why they’re fun. Like some, some of the time right now I was like, oh, they’re so like, they say like random shit. And they just have like the funniest imaginations and whatever. So I think like over time it’s like changed, but I would say when I was like early twenties, I was like, oh, I hate kids.
[00:03:43] Angela: Like I have no affinity towards children. And then like, as I spent a little bit more time with them and then like also got older. Just like, uh, okay. They’re not, they’re not so bad. Um, and then in terms of like having kids, I think when I was mid or later twenties, I still didn’t have like baby fever per se.
[00:04:05] Angela: Cuz we can talk about this later, but Karen or other best friend, like definitely had us. Specific baby fever stage, which, oh my gosh, we can discuss. Um, but I was like, I don’t, um, I don’t identify with this feeling I like, I have like, um, Dog fever, baby dog fever. Because every, every puppy I see, I need it immediately, but not like baby human baby fever.
[00:04:31] Angela: Um, but at that time I had thought like, well, I think I should have a kid. Um, and I have like many. External, I think a lot of like external factors that played into that, of course, part of its family, part of it’s just like being a woman of like, you know, clock, biological clock, ticking, that kind of shit legacy with like being Asian or Chinese, you know, there’s like a lot of stuff going on there, but I was like, eh, I’m gonna have a kid at some point, but like, I’m not like clon for it kind of thing.
[00:05:01] Angela: Mm-hmm um, and then now I think being. Obviously married and whatever. Like there’s, there’s even more factors to plan there. So yeah, we wanna have kids, but it’s, I would say my POV has like continually evolved over the last 10 years over the subject.
[00:05:17] Jesse: Well, yeah. I mean, of course you, you would, it’s not like, you know, it’s not like you’re deciding on lunch, you’re deciding on like a huge investment of your lifetime money and like energy.
[00:05:30] Jesse: So yeah, I would imagine that your perspective would change because. You’re different at different stages of your life.
[00:05:36] Angela: True. Yeah. How about you? How has yours evolved?
[00:05:40] Jesse: I would say D different, obviously. I think I had no opinion on children in my early twenties because it just wasn’t in my, it wasn’t even in my periphery.
[00:05:49] Jesse: Right. Cuz as a gay man. Like to have children, I think would be very difficult just logistically, because you could only like adopt a child or get a Sur. And both of those are very like expensive lengthy processes that are like, not necessarily guaranteed that you will have a child at the end of the day.
[00:06:06] Jesse: So like early to mid twenties, it was not even am I periphery? Cuz that was just like, that’s just like an impossibility. And then as I got older and you know, started to make more disposable income, like I like children. But I don’t have a particular like bearing towards children. Like I don’t have baby fever.
[00:06:27] Jesse: I don’t see a child and be like, oh, I want that to be mm-hmm my life or my future. And I was just talking to my partner about this yesterday. And I was like, I feel like if I was in a different situation with my life, I would consider it because I think. Children as a different kind of challenge and like a way to introduce new newness kind of, as you’re saying into your life, because they are, so it’s a very different stage of your life versus like what you normally have, which is just like, you have career, you have friends, you might travel and, and all that kind of repeats and it’s, it’s new, but it’s the same, right?
[00:07:05] Jesse: Like you have new of the same things. And so I could see a situation potentially where I’m like, okay, you know what. I’m really kind of done with doing these things and I’m ready for like a new chapter or new challenge in my life. But of course, like there’s still the logistical parts of it. So I just don’t think it’s really feasible or, you know, in the cars for me at, at the moment.
[00:07:28] Jesse: But like you said, things keep changing and like will change as we get older. So like my perspective will change, but I recently was where was I? Oh yeah. I went ice skating. And I was in line to pick up the tickets and there was like a toddler crying and I was like, bitch, those are some fake ass crocodile tears, because he was going like,
[00:07:54] Jesse: I’m like, shut that baby up. I don’t wanna see that. Like, and so I was like, I don’t think, I just don’t think I have like the temperament to be a parent. Like I would need to have like someone who’s like, like a co-parent that’s. Okay, Jesse, like you need to like this, this is a child. You cannot treat the child.
[00:08:12] Jesse: Exactly. Like an adult, like to temper. So I don’t, I don’t. Yeah. I’m, I’m not at the, at that place yet.
[00:08:19] Angela: You’re funny though, because you have, um, like you, obviously you have that side of you, but then like when we had Catherine and mark on and they had to have Valerie, their baby love Valerie, kinda on, so cute.
[00:08:31] Angela: Yeah. You were obsessed
[00:08:33] Jesse: with her because she has such a big personality. you know, like most babies are. I don’t know. I feel like most babies are pretty boring, but she has such a big personality. I’m like, yes, work. We’re gonna be best friends. So yeah. That’s why I was like, yo, I’m into this baby. Oh, that’s funny.
[00:08:49] Angela: Well, you, you could have that kind
[00:08:51] Jesse: of baby who knows? That’s true, but it’s, it’s hard. It’s not like you can, you know, when I picked up. My cat from the a S P C a, I filled out a survey that was like, I like to live like this. My environment is like this. I don’t think you get to do that with a baby. Nope.
[00:09:07] Angela: Nope. You get what you get. Exactly.
[00:09:13] Angela: Hey, everyone. We love doing this podcast. And if you enjoy our episodes, we would really appreciate if you could support us in any number of ways. First is by subscribing to us, rating us and reviewing us on apple podcasts and iTunes. Second is by telling a friend third is following us on Instagram at where are you from pod.
[00:09:36] Angela: Fourth is supporting us on buym a coffee. You can find out more about all of these by visiting our Instagram’s Lincoln bio. And again, our handle is at where are you from pod? Thank you.
[00:09:51] Jesse: But, um, it is a pressing thing because our friend groups are like rapidly, you know, either it’s diverging, either everyone’s producing babies or people are.
[00:10:02] Jesse: In my camp where it’s like, no babies, no babies at all.
[00:10:05] Angela: Yeah. We, we definitely have quite different friend groups. I’d say in the last like three, four years, my friend groups have started to like pop them out. Um, Catherine and mark were the first ones. Of like direct friends that had a baby, but Karen, like I mentioned, our other best friend has now a six or seven month old baby.
[00:10:29] Angela: It’s like, baby’s first Christmas right now, literally they’re back home. Um, and then I have two, at least two other like direct friends that are pregnant right now and giving birth next year, early next year.
[00:10:43] Jesse: It’s it’s happening. Everyone’s like, oh, it’s it’s that time. Yeah. No, my friend group, it’s funny because I have two distinct friend groups.
[00:10:50] Jesse: I have a friend group where it’s mostly straight couples and maybe like a few singles. And then I have like the gay friend group. So like the gay friend group. No, nobody is maybe nothing like there’s no, there’s not even a remote discussion of maybe anything. And, um, to set the picture like these are folks between like, Maybe like 25 to 35 ish, let’s say like, that’s the range.
[00:11:16] Jesse: And then it’s very, like the age range is very similar in my straight friend group. Um, but even they aren’t really having any conversations about having children. And I don’t really know what it is. It might just be like an urban versus suburban kind of thing. Cuz I also think it’s really hard to picture having like a family in the city because there are so many.
[00:11:38] Jesse: Stressors to navigate that maybe you wouldn’t experience in a, in a suburb. And it is very expensive to raise a child like in New York city. And I also think that, I don’t know, I don’t know what the like thinking is for, um, a lot of your friends, but I feel like when I talk to a lot of my friends, like, they’re definitely more thinking about.
[00:12:01] Jesse: Far off future considerations for the child. Like they’re thinking about whether or not they want to put a child in the world, given where the world is moving. And they’re kind of like, I don’t know if it’s like, it’s a, it’s a money thing, but they’re also kind of like, I don’t know if this is the right thing to do.
[00:12:15] Jesse: Like, we don’t know if they’re gonna have a good future and it doesn’t make sense for us to have a baby right now. So it’s like all of those kind of consider.
[00:12:23] Angela: interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I think the urban versus suburban has some validity, but I think New York is its own bubble. It’s on its own because there’s also even like stepping back.
[00:12:36] Angela: I mean, we talked about it in like the dating and relationships episode, but dating in New York sucks. Um, yeah, especially as a. A straight woman looking for a straight man because straight men are so Peter pan syndrome in New York where they’re like, oh, I could be like, I can just age up. And I will still always have like young, hot things after me.
[00:12:58] Angela: So there’s very little incentive to. Settle. And therefore, if you’re not settled, you wouldn’t start a family necessarily. Yeah. So I see that as like a big New York specific kind of like issue, um, because it’s not like every city is like that because oh yeah. Some of these friends are in cities, um, but it’s not New York.
[00:13:19] Angela: And then. I do think, I mean, age range, anyone from like my specific age upwards is kind of like who’s giving birth right now. Yeah. And I think there’s so many different reasons. Like, look, I love Catherine mark, and I’m not trying to reduce them down to just this, but if you’re very religious, that’s obviously like, A big motivator for having as many children as possible, as early as possible.
[00:13:46] Angela: And they’re, they’re quite Christian. So I think that played a lot into them, um, trying to have kids earlier. Um, and then Karen specifically is the only person I know who had like. Actual labeled baby fever. uh, that was driving that. And then I think the others honestly kind of waited a little longer than like I personally would have, or, or that’s not fair.
[00:14:10] Angela: We, we don’t know what happens behind the curtain. Right? Like what’s, what’s happening with that process. But, um, I think some of them waited a little longer and then that also has like its own complications. Once you wait a little bit longer from like, Biological standpoint, which we can talk about. But I think some of it was kind of like it’s time, I guess like,
[00:14:31] Jesse: okay.
[00:14:31] Jesse: I mean, I think this is a good segue into kind of like why or in like why not to have the kids . Yeah. Do you want to, do you want to share maybe your like top three?
[00:14:44] Angela: I mean, it’s a long list, man. I don’t know if I only have three. Well, I think your
[00:14:51] Jesse: elevator pitch for kids go, you have 30 seconds.
[00:14:54] Angela: This is not, oh, this is not a good pitch.
[00:14:57] Angela: No, because so many of them are pressures from outside people like before I had any relationships, right. Like no romantic relation when I was like single. And I was thinking about like, should I have kids in the future? Mm-hmm a big part of it is just a sense of like duty. Um, sure. To the family. So like, I we’ve talked about this before, but my brother’s gay, so I’m the only, um, child left in the family.
[00:15:24] Angela: And it’s, it’s kind of tricky because technically in like Chinese culture passing down, the last name through bloodline is really important. And technically that only happens through the, the sun because they. When they marry, they don’t change their last name. Yeah. Versus I changed my last name. So like, technically I’m already kinda like fucking that up, you know, there’s like, even if I pass down blood, it’s like, not exactly as pure as like Chinese legacy will have wanted because it’s not through my brother’s
[00:15:54] Jesse: side.
[00:15:54] Jesse: Yeah. But I think, you know, given, given that the firstborn male is not a VI viable yes. Option, it’s like, kind of like better than that than nothing. Yes. Yeah.
[00:16:05] Angela: So basically as soon as he came out, Which was a long time ago. like over a decade ago, you know, like maybe two days ago. Um, yeah, that pressure was on for me.
[00:16:16] Angela: It’s like, you need to, you need to have kids because you’re only hope for passing down the Lynn family bloodline. So that was high pressure, um, in and of itself. The next is, I mean, I, I think I always knew I wanted to have at least one kid. I just mm-hmm for me. You know, my perspective changed over time, especially after we’ve done like psychedelics and whatnot, right?
[00:16:38] Angela: Like where you like truly learn what love. Feels like, and like that connection you can have with everything. I think those experiences have helped me understand that. Like, I have a lot of love that I can give and children as like a natural place to put that love and like in a really productive manner, right?
[00:16:59] Angela: Like a productive. Beneficial place to put the love is, is towards kids because it, you know, it, hopefully you’re making a good human who will help other people in the future, blah, blah, blah. Anyways, mm-hmm um, but back then, I think it was more like I will regret not having kids. I, I think it was a lot of, that was one of the things that was just like, well, if I have a kid, like, could be awesome if I don’t have a kid and then I get too old to have.
[00:17:27] Angela: Will I like be super sad and regretful later on. So like that was a, that was a huge pressure as well. And then getting older. I mean, not even that old, I’d say probably when I turned like 20. Oh, I had a CRI, a mini crisis at like 27, cuz that’s when my mom married. My dad, um, is when she was 27. And then they obviously like started planning out having kids and whatever.
[00:17:51] Angela: And I was like, oh my God, I’m 27. I’m still single. I don’t even have a. Like, you know, I just like kind of spiraled and I was like, oh fuck, am I gonna have kids in time? So then I think 27 is when I started thinking of the biological clock issue, because I was like, before that, I was like, I’m so fucking young, like get outta my face.
[00:18:10] Angela: I don’t care about this. Like, I I’ll deal with this later. Um, but I, I think that moment was when I was like, oh, I need to start thinking about. Because it’s unfair, but like the reality is that as a woman, if you wanna have a kid naturally without having potential complications, you need to factor in your age.
[00:18:29] Angela: So mm-hmm, . That was another. Yep. Um, and then I’d say my most recent pressure is just thinking about my, our parents, respectively getting older. It’s my dad has gotten baby fever. I think we’ve talked about this. So he’s the one who has like extreme baby fever. Um, so he like desperately wants grandkids. Um, and he doesn’t like say it to my face necessarily, except during my weddings speeches, you know, but, um, I think just.
[00:19:00] Angela: It is really sad, but like forecasting out of like how many years left do we have with our parents before they’re gone? It’s like it, the longer I wait, the longer, they won’t get to meet their grandkids before they PA you know, it’s really sad stuff, but like, they’re like so many different factors that play into it that have like, come about and evolved again, um, over time.
[00:19:22] Angela: So yeah, lots of things, lots of
[00:19:23] Jesse: things. Wow. That’s super, super, um, Stressful .
[00:19:29] Angela: Did you ever feel like you had some inkling of like, maybe I do want kids and like for this reason, or like, did you ever feel any pressures of like, if I don’t X, Y, Z, that kind of stuff? Yeah.
[00:19:43] Jesse: You know, like, we’ve talked a lot about it during like our dating and personal life episodes, but to be honest, like my, like my parents haven’t really put much pressure on me to.
[00:19:55] Jesse: Any of that. Like, I think that they’ve talked about it. Like, um, like when I came out to my mom, I think there was like a part of what she had in her head that she never expressed where she was like, okay, well that’s just not gonna happen anymore. And they didn’t really, you know, mention all that. I don’t really know why, because it does seem to be such a big issue.
[00:20:15] Jesse: And I. Not big, not big issue, but it’s like a big topic and I am the only child. So like technically it’s me or nobody , there’s no backup plan. Yeah. Um, but no, they never really mentioned any of that stuff. And in fact, like my dad doesn’t really ask me about my personal life. So my opinions on having children are all my own because I’ve never been pushed one way or the other.
[00:20:41] Jesse: for me, like the reasons why not? I would probably say like, they’re very similar to my friends ones, but I’ve definitely mentioned this before. I think the first thing is it’s more of a selfish reason. I don’t know if I would be good with a child. And I also don’t know if I would ever be in a place in my life where I’m like, I’m so done with, you know, focusing on my own.
[00:21:01] Jesse: Development and like development of my relationships with, you know, my partner and friends and stuff that I would be like, okay, I’m ready to like single my time into this. Yeah. Tiny human and like helping them build their lives. So that’s like the first thing, the second thing is, it’s just like, It’s like a huge commitment to make.
[00:21:18] Jesse: Like you cannot, it’s like not, you cannot back out of it. No, it’s not like owning a pet. It’s not even like getting married and getting divorced. Like that’s something you could like reasonably back out of and you know, no harm, no foul necessarily, but you can’t back out of having a kid. Like you can’t just be like, I don’t want this baby anymore.
[00:21:33] Jesse: Like. . I mean, you could, but you could, but that’s not, I don’t think it’s, that’s like morally unethical to like have the baby and then be like, oh no, I made a mistake. Like, yeah. Yeah. So like, at least for me it is, and I understand like, some people have that situation with like, I really, I really thought I wanted it and I wanna give it up.
[00:21:51] Jesse: But for me, I’m like, I would prefer to like really, really be sure that I want this before I. Bring the baby into the world or adopt the child. And so, and then I’m not really there yet. And then I think the last thing to consider is like, I, I’m also kind of in the camp with my friends where I’m just like, thinking about like what the world is gonna be like, and not necessarily that the world is gonna be like destroyed or anything.
[00:22:15] Jesse: But I just think that it’s a really, really complicated place to navigate right now. And I don’t feel C. That I could help a person navigate their life. And, and, and so I’m like, I don’t know if I, if I should have kids, because if I can’t, you know, if I’m not sure that I can commit to this child, if I’m not sure I can be the right guardian for them to like, help guide them, I don’t think I should.
[00:22:39] Jesse: Like, I don’t think it would be fair. And so those are probably like my, you know, internal reasons, of course, like I said, that could, that could change, you know, like as you get older, your priorities shift and I might get to a point where I’m like, you. I think it is time. Like it’s ti like I have good relationships and those aren’t gonna change and it’s time to like focus on, you know, something else, something new mm-hmm
[00:23:03] Jesse: But for right now, it’s kind of like, that’s where. My head is at when it comes to children. Of course, I love other people’s children. Like I’ll take care of other people’s children, but I just like, for myself, I don’t think I, and I can do that. Like temporarily. I just don’t think that I can do it like 24 7.
[00:23:17] Jesse: Sure. Cause I like listen to, I listen to like Karen talk about her children. I listen to other coworkers talking about other children and I’m like, there is no way, no way I’m waking up at 3:00 AM for, let me, I don’t even wake up at 3:00 AM for. To do anything. Like if I need to care for myself, I just be like, I’m gonna sleep through it.
[00:23:35] Jesse: so I’m like a baby, like, ah, I don’t know.
[00:23:38] Angela: and it’s probably not just once that you’re waking
[00:23:41] Jesse: up either. Yeah, exactly. I’m I’m just like this, this just sounds so I’m already so tired. Like I just, I don’t think this just listening to it. exactly. I’m I just, I just don’t think I could.
[00:23:51] Angela: Well, okay. You mentioned how it’s different from having.
[00:23:54] Angela: A fair baby. Well, you do have a fair baby. I do have a fair, because I don’t know. I, I was thinking about you and Juniper when you were talking about like, you’re not sure you have the capacity to like care for a thing. I’m like, you care a lot about Juniper and you have like a sweet relationship with him.
[00:24:09] Jesse: What’s going on there. Yeah, I, I do. Um, but it’s different. So like it’s the same thing where I’m like, yeah, if you leave your child with me for like, you know, maybe a day, a few days, that’s fine. I can do that. But like for like years and years and years, I don’t, I don’t know about that. And, and, and, and Juniper’s different, like Juniper I got when he was like an adult cat, so he already has like some life skills.
[00:24:34] Jesse: Like he knows how to poop in a box. He knows how to eat food. He’s already independent. Like he’s, if I like adopt it, like an adult, so like, sure. I just have to make sure he has food. Make sure he has water, you know, scoop his poop box and then just like, hang out with him, you know? A few, a few hours every day.
[00:24:53] Jesse: And that’s cool. But with like a child that’s like a 24 7 like 18 year commitment. Yeah. At. Which is like much, much more, I think, aggressive than having an animal. That’s
[00:25:06] Angela: so funny. The way you described Juniper, he is like, you’re a cat roommate that you,
[00:25:11] Jesse: no, he is kids for. Yeah. I he’s like he’s my other partner that I live with.
[00:25:17] Jesse: Sure. Yes. But like, aside from the fact that he needs, you know, food and water and sometimes attention, he’s not like particularly dependent on me. Yeah. He spends most of the day, like sleeping. Looking out the window, running around, like stuff like that. So I don’t, he’s not like help.
[00:25:33] Angela: Isn’t that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
[00:25:34] Angela: Yeah. Well, cats are different. It, you make a good point that you got him while he was already an adult adult because I, Karen, who has the baby now, she also has two cats. And I met them when they were kittens kittens and they were crazy. How crazy? Yeah. Um, like I was scared of them. Crazy. They locked, they like backed me into the quarter of a BA third.
[00:25:59] Angela: Why I was staying at her apartment once and I got up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom and because cats are NOC nocturnal, and they were kittens. So they were, you know, wide awake all the time. Mm-hmm or just like, you know, five minute naps and like would zoom around. I came out of my room.
[00:26:16] Angela: and then they like zoomed towards me. I just saw like eyes glowing in the night. oh God, they both zoomed towards me. And so I like ran into the bathroom, which is where I was trying to go anyway. And I slammed the door shut. And then I just saw their tiny pause swiping under the door. And I was like, oh my God.
[00:26:34] Angela: And they were doing that for like 20 minutes. I was like, I can’t get out.
[00:26:38] Jesse: see. Like, that’s why, you know, like, I love, I love baby animals. Like I love puppies. I love kittens, but I would. Like, because it’s, it’s a much more, it’s a much more investment of your time to take care of a baby animal than it is to have an adult.
[00:26:54] Angela: Yeah. And cats versus dogs too, are very different because I mm-hmm, like we have been talking about getting a dog for a long time and we do wanna get a dog before, hopefully before we have kids. Cuz it’s, it’s kind of like a training ladder. It is right? Yeah. Especially dog, because they are more they’re neater than cats.
[00:27:13] Angela: Like they look, they are so lovable and there’s a veering range of like dumb to smart dogs, obviously by breed and whatnot. They’re. But generally they need more attention than. Yeah. If you get a puppy, especially, it is kind of like a baby, because I have a lot of outside of, uh, human babies. I have a lot of friends who like in the last five years got animal babies and a lot of them are dogs and they got them as puppies.
[00:27:38] Angela: And they’re like, I haven’t slept in two months, like, because the dog just like cries in the middle of the night and you have to like create, train them and stuff. So that. Learn how to not be, you know, so attached to you and all that stuff. And so I was like, you kind of just sound like you have an actual baby.
[00:27:56] Angela: Um, so yeah, I feel like that will be our, you know, the training wheels version first before the, the human baby.
[00:28:04] Jesse: Yeah. Yeah. I mean like, you do have to spend a lot of, I mean, if you do get a puppy yeah. You, you have to, yeah. You do have to like teach the puppy skills. You have to walk the puppy. I mean, you still have to walk a dog.
[00:28:14] Jesse: Like it’s a lot of time. Mm-hmm, much more time. That’s why I got cat. Cuz it’s easier to deal with. Well,
[00:28:19] Angela: my, my hope is that the dog becomes well trained and then is like chill by the time the baby comes along and then it’s like, it’s protector, you know, all those internet videos.
[00:28:29] Jesse: Oh yeah. The cute baby dog videos.
[00:28:30] Jesse: Yes. Yeah. I love
those.
[00:28:32] Angela: I love those. Yeah. Okay. Well earlier you already mentioned a few, like the unspoken reasons why, especially like gay people may not have. Kids mm-hmm and that you mentioned adoption or surrogacy. You wanna talk a little bit about that and it, do you know any people personally that have like gone through either of those processes?
[00:28:53] Angela: No.
[00:28:54] Jesse: Oh, I mean, I follow this hockey dad, Instagram account. They have two children. They’re very cute, but I don’t actually know they, I mean, anyone that I’ve any gay couple that I’ve seen with children, they’re rich, they’re like filthy rich. Um, and these guys were like close to the beginning of the pandemic.
[00:29:12] Jesse: They’re like, bye. We bought a house in London. We’ll see you later. And I’m like, you just, like, you just bought a house in London, just like to leave for the I’m like how much money do you have? So it’s these, I think it’s yeah. I was like, who are you? I haven’t personally looked into it, but I know it’s at least like for adoption, it’s at least $10,000 in like fees, legal shit.
[00:29:34] Jesse: Mm-hmm um, and it can be more, more than. It’s not, uh, empirical, but I have a friend, I think she’s looking to adopt. She’s not, she’s not gay. She’s just, she just wants to adopt as a single mother. And she had gone through like months and months and stuff with the state government and they still were like, we don’t have anyone to give you.
[00:29:53] Jesse: So she went like a private route to try to find like a private adoption agency. So I think that whole thing, like that whole process is really murky as well. Um, in terms of like how you navigate it, what the players are, but overall, I think it is just like a very expensive thing to do. And I also feel like just based off of seeing that.
[00:30:14] Jesse: It can be a little bit of a heartbreaking thing as well, because you’re not necessarily guaranteed that you will be able to adopt whoever they bring in front of you. So you might be going through the emotions and you might become very invested in this baby toddler, child, whatever. And then they’ll be like, actually, you know, someone else adopted them or like, we can’t let you adopt for X, Y, Z reasons.
[00:30:33] Jesse: So I think it is a, it’s a very emotionally trying process. And then like surrogacy that’s like impossible, you know, I don’t know. It would just be like the idea of buying someone’s body to bear your child is such a weird thing for me. I’m like, it just feels so uncomfortable. And, and like, unless it’s somebody in my life that was like, Oh, like, yeah, I’ll do this for you because you’re a close friend.
[00:30:58] Jesse: And, um, and not for like a financial reason, because it just feels icky to me. Like, it feels icky that some, like you might be paying someone to do that because they don’t have any their choice and like financially they’re stuck or something like that. Um, versus, you know, if it’s a friend, I would be like, okay, like this is less icky because you know, they’re not in need.
[00:31:17] Jesse: They just wanna do it as a friend, but still like the whole process. I feel like it’s very, it’s a huge emotional investment, especially you’re trusting someone to carry your baby. . Well, Surro
[00:31:29] Angela: is an interesting topic because I think that’s the share. No, sorry. That’s not fair. Adoption and surrogacy are both options for street and, um, gay couples obviously, but like surrogacy is slightly different when it’s straight versus gay couples because in a straight couple, technically the egg and the sperm are from.
[00:31:51] Angela: well, I guess it depends, I guess it depends. Totally depends. Right. Because sometimes it’s like the mother. Just can’t bear children for some, some reason or another, but like the egg is still fine. And then they, they can’t just like plant an egg and the sperm into this other woman. So it’s not technically her egg.
[00:32:13] Angela: Yeah. So then it is like, she’s literally just, you know, the oven. Um, but other times, yeah, you, you do get like a donation of one or the other thing versus yeah. In gay couples, it, you obviously have to. The egg donated, but isn’t it like, kind of like roll the dice? Who sperm? I, I, I heard there was kind of a, like, sometimes you choose sometimes it’s just like, I don’t implant both.
[00:32:35] Angela: And like, see which one
[00:32:37] Jesse: I thought that they it’s like advanced now where they can like mix your show. Oh, whoa. What? I don’t know. I could be wrong. But I’m like, it’s it’s they made a vaccine in like a year, which I should be able to make like a, a sperm, this designer, DNA designer sperm. I, I mean, I really don’t know, but yeah, I would also say like, definitely between those two things I would probably adopt.
[00:33:01] Jesse: I think adoption is overall cheaper. Um, and there’s like less, I think there’s maybe like fewer legal complexities, because like, if someone’s bearing your child, like they could technically, you have to like sign away the baby, basically mm-hmm and there could still be some complications later on in the line versus adoption, plus like, I I’m kind of the same way where I’d be like, let me, let me, like, I don’t want it like a baby.
[00:33:23] Jesse: I want like a toddler to like child
[00:33:26] Angela: age. I want an 18 year. I want a 17 and a half year old
[00:33:30] Jesse: age. no, but like, I want, you know, I want someone and I want a child who’s like, You know, ha maybe like 50% potty trained. I can like talk to the child, you know, this is my normal fashion. Okay, sure. Yeah. yeah.
[00:33:45] Angela: Okay. I understand.
[00:33:46] Angela: I understand. Basically
[00:33:47] Jesse: like the child needs to have like the same life skills as Juniper when I adopt them.
[00:33:53] Angela: Oh, okay. That’s fair. Okay. Fine. Except jumping like six feet in there. Him or
[00:33:57] Jesse: her? Yeah. Except jumping six feet in there,
[00:33:59] Angela: in there. Well from my side, not me personally, obviously, but some of the other like unspoken complications with kids that I have witnessed from friends, uh, as you know, friends are starting to have kids and whatnot is definitely, as I mentioned, the biological clock situation.
[00:34:16] Angela: Mm-hmm , I think we’re in a complicated. Place in society right now where it’s like, women’s rights. Like we deserve, you know, we are the same as men, we get to blah, blah, blah. Like yeah, sure. Yes, yes, yes. But I think that’s also prolonged the idea of like, women should be in the workforce for as long as possible and like, You know, prioritize your career advancement over, starting a family because science has developed and you can like freeze your eggs and whatever.
[00:34:43] Angela: Right. Mm-hmm yes. True, great, great. That there are options, but runs into complications for many reasons. Like, yeah, you can freeze your eggs, but then you’re inherently more likely that you’re not gonna be having your child naturally and you will have to go through. In vitro, um, or IVF in order to have the kid, which is where they like replant the egg back in your body, essentially.
[00:35:10] Angela: Um, and you have to like take a shit ton of hormones in order to make your body ready for that. It costs a ton of money and you might lose the baby because many reasons, but like, Personally know a friend or two that have like lost babies through the IVF process. And it’s like, it’s grueling. It’s like, not only did you spend all this money and like stab yourself with hormones every day, for weeks on end and then get pregnant to then lose the baby and then like have to go all over again.
[00:35:45] Angela: And then one of my friends who had a child, she was 35 when she was pregnant. And she was like in the hospital for a checkup and she was like, They literally are telling me the legal like term for my pregnancy is a geriatric pregnancy because I’m yeah. 35. Yeah. So it’s like, I mean, there’s just like real complications, right?
[00:36:07] Angela: You’re like body is just not as prime for housing, a baby after certain age. So then if you do choose the like IVF route or whatnot, like you’re going to go through a lot of stuff in order to make that happen. And then I also have friends who is like, There’s. Nothing. The doctors can detect that’s wrong with either of your, like the eggs or sperm, but for some reason you’re just not getting pregnant.
[00:36:30] Angela: Like, there’s just like, there’s so many things and it’s just like, what can you really do about that? And then for me, something that I’ve been struggling with is like, I’ve been on birth control for. A really long time, like over 10 years I started when I was in college and it wasn’t even for sex. It was because my period was like weird.
[00:36:49] Angela: Mm-hmm like, it was really irregular. And I had heard that birth control was like a really strong way to like regulate it. And I was like, great. Let’s do it. And so that’s what I was using it for mostly until the last year or so. I finally decided like, mm, I wanna like rid my body of like unnecessary chemical dependencies.
[00:37:09] Angela: Um, and I like started getting off the pill and then I started reading a book about like getting off the pill and kinda like rereating your body. There are so many long term side effects to taking birth control that no one talks about. And one of them is that it can make you. I mean, infertile is like the worst potential possibility, but it can do that.
[00:37:33] Angela: The other is just like, it just makes your body really difficult to conceive because you’ve been telling it, you know, you’ve been feeding it blockers for years and years and years, and it’s like, oh, I’m supposed to like be a nurturing environment now again. So, yeah. And I’m still struggling with reregulating my period now, after being off the pill for a year.
[00:37:54] Angela: So it’s just. It, the human body is like comp so complex and like so many factors that you can’t control. Um, and so I’m just trying to like minimize my risk of, you know, like having more complications later, but yeah, there are so many things. And then, yeah, people don’t talk about miscarriages, but as Ali won bravely joked about her standup comedy, it’s more common than people.
[00:38:21] Angela: Think just like people don’t talk about it and it it’s really sad again, emotionally and physically all of that. So yeah.
[00:38:28] Jesse: I think people wanna think about it. Like you don’t want to think about all those things, right? You just want to think about, you know, the ideal situation where you have the baby naturally, and everything’s beautiful and it’s like a movie and amazing, and you look like a million bucks when you conceive.
[00:38:41] Jesse: And the baby is like beautiful as
[00:38:43] Angela: it comes out. Not an alien slimy thing. Yeah. Not an
[00:38:46] Jesse: alien, like curd, basically that came out your body.
[00:38:49] Angela: That’s what they all, can we just agree? That’s what all babies are like
[00:38:52] Jesse: when they come out. Probably they’re disgusting when they come out. Okay. Like how can it not be, it’s literally covered in your inside, like blood
[00:39:01] Angela: is so other shit.
[00:39:02] Angela: Maybe literal shit. Every, a lot of people poop. Yes. Yeah. Yes. You can’t control it. You’re just pushing as hard
[00:39:09] Jesse: as you can. So that’s what I mean. I just, you know, there’s like so many things about. The process of having a child, whether naturally, or through adoption or through surrogacy, that is just like, it’s just like a minefield.
[00:39:23] Jesse: And let me tell you, I’m not trying to get my life more complicated. I’m trying to simplify my life like, and the older I get this more simplistic, I want my life to be, you know, so it’s just like all of. New things that you will have to consider and be really honest with yourself about I’m just like, I don’t know if I want to do this.
[00:39:44] Jesse: Like, it’s like a huge, I don’t know. I
[00:39:46] Angela: get it. Look, I get it. yeah,
[00:39:49] Jesse: I will say I like, you know, my friend group is not there yet where it’s like everyone is having babies, but I wonder what it will feel like when that starts to become the case where you’re like the last person that’s like baby list. Hmm. Um, I don’t think that’ll ever be the case because again, like it’s not, I don’t think it’s that common for gay men to have children, even through adoption.
[00:40:11] Jesse: It’s not like EV everyone will eventually do it kind of situation. Yeah. Yeah. So I always think about what that would be like, but I think I would just like, you know, current me is like, I’m just gonna be that like fun gunk character on the TV. Mm-hmm they like shows up with amazing gifts. And I talk to, you know, the offspring, like they’re adults.
[00:40:29] Jesse: So they like, love me. And I’m secretly just drunk the entire time. yeah, I can
[00:40:35] Angela: see that. I can see it.
[00:40:37] Jesse: okay. Listeners. So we always like to end on a sweet treat. So we’re moving on to the fortune cookie part of the podcast. I think we had two things we wanted to hash over discuss, which is potential names for babies and also what your dream baby profile would be like.
[00:40:56] Jesse: What’s your ideal baby? Like? So. I will, um, let you take the lead on this one. Since my, my dream situations are very far from being feasible, as I cannot make a baby, I’ve
[00:41:09] Angela: never thought about baby names. So I actually don’t have these ready at all. All I know is that I will want them to have a Chinese name and an English name.
[00:41:23] Angela: Yeah. So I think that that’s one thing I thought about when I got married, because I had to fill in. It, they ask you, you know, are one of you going to change your last name? And if so, like what is it gonna be changed too? So I like legally I’ve changed it on the marriage certificate, but I haven’t.
[00:41:39] Angela: Submitted it to social security and whatever. So like it’s not okay. Legal anywhere yet. But, um, when I change everything it’s gonna become, Lynn’s gonna become my middle name and then requires gonna be my last name. Okay. So that’s how I’m like, kind of like honoring my Chinese name still, but obviously my Chinese name doesn’t change.
[00:41:56] Angela: And then when I, when I changed my name, I did think about like, oh, when we have kids, like, I definitely will still want them to have a Chinese name and it will obviously. Lynn, you know, like, yeah. Um, so that way my, you know, my family still has that Carrie through. So that’s that’s as far as I’ve like, thought about names, TBH,
[00:42:18] Jesse: would you name your child after food or fruit?
[00:42:21] Jesse: Apple?
[00:42:22] Angela: God, no dude, no, no inanimate objects. I don’t understand any of those names. I just don’t.
[00:42:30] Jesse: Um, what about Al directions? oh my gosh. West. What about like, what about like, really funny, funny spellings, like, um, Ashley, but like a S H L E I G H Ashley girl. No
[00:42:44] Angela: girl. No. Who do you think I’m a white girl, like who?
[00:42:47] Angela: I can’t name my kid. That kind of thing. No, you know what, actually, but maybe it would make sense at least to have names that are easy to say. In both English and Spanish. Like my name’s an example of that. Like, obviously it doesn’t sound the same, but like Angela an is something that exists in Spanish versus like, yeah.
[00:43:08] Angela: Ashley, especially he, I G H is fucking weird and no one would understand.
[00:43:15] Jesse: What about in Spain, old woman names? Like,
[00:43:17] Angela: no, I. Yeah, no, , it’s weird because names I’ve like vaguely thought about names, not for future children. Just like maybe when people, when I have friends that are like, thinking about names, I’ve like, thought about it momentarily and names are weird because they like come, you know, the popularity comes.
[00:43:35] Angela: And goes and goes. Yeah. So like, I definitely wouldn’t want a name. That’s like, you know, hot for the moment. Like some people name their babies, like KK because game of Thrones and that kind of stuff, like I would not wanna name my baby, anything like that, but. I’ve also thought like old man names, old woman names, like maybe they’ll become hot again, but I doubt it.
[00:43:56] Angela: I don’t know. I think for me thinking back on like all the trauma of childhood and whatnot, I’m trying to like minimize the amount of trauma I’m forcing onto my child, having a weird, hard to, or like weird old person name is probably not like the best for that child with kids. So kids being mean that makes sense.
[00:44:17] Angela: That’s what I’m saying. Makes yeah, that makes. How about you? You’ll just, um, you’ll go with the continued Juniper. So it’s like Oak , like Ivy ,
[00:44:28] Jesse: uh, fur Douglas, Douglas, fir Douglas fir maybe, uh, Redwood. I don’t know. I didn’t name Juniper.
[00:44:36] Angela: Oh, he was already named that was his name?
[00:44:39] Jesse: Yeah. Okay. I did. I was like, I don’t think he’s like, he’s already like an adult, so I’m like, if I change his name, it’ll be confusing.
[00:44:45] Jesse: That’s so I just kept it the same.
[00:44:47] Angela: There’s a theory that animals don’t actually recognize their names. That they just recognize like the tone that their owner says their name in mm-hmm mm-hmm yeah. So you could be saying anything, but if you say it in the same tone as the way you usually say his name
[00:45:03] Jesse: will still yeah.
[00:45:04] Jesse: I, I feel like you have to say his name a specific way, but he does like turn around when I say his name. And I think when, when other people say it, it’s like a very, it’s a very distinctive name. Yes. So I think the intonation’s easier to pick up for him. Yeah. But he does like turn around and people are like, Juna um, no, I haven’t really thought about it.
[00:45:22] Jesse: I just, I like weird Irish names. Not like those unpronounceable words. CERSI and CERSI could be one. It could be, um, Locklin. Oh, it could be, yeah. Okay. I don’t know. I, yeah, I like, I like the way that. Sound, but yeah, they’re also like very difficult names. So I’m like, I don’t know if I would put that on someone or I would be like, you know, I, I would, I would name them that, but then I would call them like an easy version of it.
[00:45:47] Jesse: Yeah.
[00:45:48] Angela: Yeah. I could see that. Yeah. Okay. Um, and then dream baby profile. I mean, again, I haven’t thought that hard about this. I just want. I want them to be smart, but with social skills. Okay. And to be confident and, you know, have empathy for people. I don’t know this just like, I don’t, I don’t have like that many things.
[00:46:10] Angela: It’s just like, be a good human. Yeah. You know,
[00:46:12] Jesse: generally good things. Yeah. That makes sense. Um, I would say I would want a child that will sleep for the most part. I know that they don’t sleep. Like, you know, it’s very difficult for them to sleep, but yes. um, honestly, this is gonna sound really shallow, but I want a really beautiful child because it, it makes a difference in life to be beautiful.
[00:46:35] Jesse: Mm-hmm like, it does make, it makes a lot of things much easier. Yeah. And I’m like, if, if they can be beautiful, good for them, they’re have a much easier life you’re not wrong. Yeah. And, and all those things that you mentioned, confidence, social skills, empathy for people. Um, particularly me as I get older, don’t leave me in the home, but actually depends if it’s a fun home.
[00:46:58] Jesse: Yeah. Leave me there. It’s a
[00:47:00] Angela: but come visit yeah, but come visit sometimes. Yeah. Okay. Well on that note okay. Well, interesting topic. Um, maybe we’ll circle back in 10 years.
[00:47:13] Jesse: oh God. On this, literally like each of us has like a baby at this point and we. What do we do?
[00:47:20] Angela: I can’t well, listeners, whatever stage of the baby making baby rearing, uh, life you are in right now, write us in with what you thought about this episode, what your perspective was about having kids before or after.
[00:47:37] Angela: If you already have kids now or hit us up with your dream baby profile, uh, in our notes, we wrote mash, but make it baby characteristics. So. Draw mash, send it to us. and come back next week. We’ll have another fresh episode for you then. And until then, bitches.