But Where Are You Really From Podcast

Note: Transcript fully created by automated AI

[00:00:00] Jesse: Hi everyone. I’m Jesse Lin

[00:00:02] Angela: And I’m Angela Lin. Welcome back to another episode of, but where are you really? From today? We have a guest on the show, joining us from Korea. We are both in Korea right now. Woo. Woo. We have Sunbin.

[00:00:15] Sunbin: Welcome. Hello? Hello.

[00:00:18] Angela: Thanks for joining us. Um, so we’ll let you introduce yourself, but I do wanna give some context on how we got connected.

[00:00:27] Angela: So we know each other through our mutual friends, Katherine and mark, for those listeners that have been with us from the beginning, they’re the ones who joined us for the parenting episode. You probably heard their baby Valerie chime in on the episode a couple times. Because

[00:00:45] Sunbin: they were watching her at the time.

[00:00:48] Angela: Um, so we are mutual friends through that connection. And Catherine mark introduced us to meet up while Ramona and I are in Seoul. So some and us already met up one other time. I think we’re getting pizza tonight. So that’s how we got to know each other. Um, and based on when we met, I was like, oh, she has a super interesting background and like kind of life story going on it as, especially in relation to all these questions we constantly ponder about around identity and kind of like where we’re from, who we really are, blah, blah, blah, anyways.

[00:01:27] Angela: So I was like, please be on our show. And she agreed. And so here she is. And so some. we’ll let you introduce yourself whatev however much you want to say about yourself, but also slide in the typical question of, but where are

[00:01:45] Sunbin: you really from? Oh boy. Uh, very compact question, at least for me. Um, hi, uh, so my name is sunburn.

[00:01:55] Sunbin: Um, I am, I was born in Korea. But then I have actually spent half my life in the states. Um, I grew up there for about in a small town, uh, in Maryland. Um, also spent a significant amount of time in Korea for middle school and high school as well. Um, and then I went back to, uh, the states. Uh, Pittsburgh to be specific, uh, for college.

[00:02:21] Sunbin: Um, and then I’ve been back in Korea for about three or four years. Um, and then now, actually this Friday, um, I’ll be heading out, uh, to San Francisco, uh, to start graduate school. So, um, kind of here and there. Uh, so I guess if to answer the question of where I’m from, I would say both Korea and the states.

[00:02:45] Sunbin: Yeah.

[00:02:46] Jesse: Wait, what are you going to grad

[00:02:47] Sunbin: school for? Oh, go to, I go to grad school for real estate development and design. Um, oh, nice. I’m doing something similar to it currently. Um, I work at a real estate company, uh, right now, um, a startup, uh, and I just wanted to learn some more about it, um, and get it and actually make some more money as well while I do it.

[00:03:11] Sunbin: So,

[00:03:12] Angela: Hey, the startup you were working at was a little cooler than just a real estate start.

[00:03:18] Sunbin: You can, uh, we build kitchens. Um, I don’t know if you guys heard of the. Dark kitchens. Um, so they’re basically delivery based kitchens. Um, so for me, I’m on the real estate side. Um, so we do the, the fit out of, uh, these kitchen facilities.

[00:03:33] Sunbin: Yeah. I think,

[00:03:34] Angela: um, I think in the

[00:03:35] Sunbin: us they’re called ghost kitchens. Mm-hmm

[00:03:37] Angela: so right, Jesse. I don’t know if you’ve heard of that concept basically. It’s like when you go on like door dash or whatever, not all of. Places that can deliver actually have like a physical place. A lot of them have, like they make their food and like one of these ghost

[00:03:52] Sunbin: kitchens.

[00:03:52] Sunbin: Yeah. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. Um, I’m I’m interested. Very mysterious. Yeah. I mean, I’m sure like, like some of these kitchens like run like multiple like brands, so like. You might think that you’re ordering food from like three different places, but it’s actually from the same place. Um, but I mean, the concept of this was interesting, which is why I got it into it in the first place.

[00:04:12] Sunbin: Um, but now I just want to be able to do some other stuff with real estate. Let’s go

[00:04:17] Angela: into kind of your background a little bit more. So the way you described it is really interesting part of why I was like, oh, Super interesting background is like, I feel like a lot of times when we meet people who have like split their lives between the motherlands Asia and the us, it’s usually like more clean cut of like I moved when I was 12 and then I like didn’t, I haven’t been back or like whatever versus yours is very much like, kind of like you’ve been back and forth during like very different kind of developmental stages of your life.

[00:04:48] Angela: Right. Um, and so I guess that’s. , uh, that’s very different than a lot of people that, that we meet. And so just to kind of like recap what you mentioned, so you were born in Korea, but I think you told me when we first met that you lived in the us basically from when you were like a baby,

[00:05:09] Sunbin: right. Until.

[00:05:11] Angela: until like right before middle school.

[00:05:13] Angela: Is

[00:05:13] Sunbin: that right? Yeah. So I, I got to the states, uh, when I was like 18 months old from what I, from what I heard, uh, 18 months old. And then I was there until I was 11, 11. So like, I think I, I left halfway through fifth grade. Um, and then I. He came to Korea. Um, and then started fifth grade. That’s super

[00:05:37] Angela: interesting to me, because for all I intents and purposes, like to me, you are like Korean American then, because you basically were like, no one remembers anything from 18 months old.

[00:05:48] Angela: Right? Like your memories don’t start forming until you’re probably like four or five. So by the time you can like, remember things and like you’re learning how to talk and stuff. you’re in a, like very American environment, especially you said you’re like Baltimore, Maryland area, like a very not like, you know, Asian as the default kind of environment.

[00:06:10] Angela: Right. Um, and I just like, kind of was picturing myself of like, if I went back to Taiwan when I was like 12 or whatever, 11 or 12, like what I really.

[00:06:20] Sunbin: Feel like

[00:06:22] Angela: I could keep up and like, could, you know, could fit in. So for you, like technically being born in Korea, but like essentially growing up as an American kid in the formative, like first few years.

[00:06:37] Angela: Right. What was that like when you guys moved back to, and like, I guess, why did you move back and then like, how did that feel? When you were going through

[00:06:45] Sunbin: that transition for me, like, I, it, obviously it wasn’t by choice. My parents had found a, found a new job back at Korea. Um, and then obviously the entire family had to move.

[00:06:55] Sunbin: Um, so it wasn’t by choice. I begged my parents if I could stay at a friend’s place, but obviously that wasn’t gonna happen. Um, but the transition was pretty brutal. Um, to be completely honest, I think I had it a little better because, um, I was a part of, uh, a class with all these kids from foreign countries.

[00:07:20] Sunbin: Like, so all these kids were from foreign countries, like were living in foreign countries for like more than three years. Um, so it was like an adjustment period for us for that entire year. Um, so I think it was relatively easier, but then once we got mixed into like all the, the quote unquote. Normal like Korean kids.

[00:07:39] Sunbin: I think that’s when it was tough. And I, I thought I was pretty Korean cuz like I, you know, I went to Korean school and you know, I thought like, oh I can speak Korean. But then once I actually got there, I, I, I was very traumatized. I couldn’t say a single word. Like I, I couldn’t even buy like a, a. A subway ticket.

[00:07:58] Sunbin: Um, I had to like ask my parents. I was like, uh, I, I can’t like, can you help me? So like, I, I was like, uh, I think the transition was a lot tougher than I expect. I, I thought it would be, um, because I thought I would like jump right back in because you know, I, I am like Korean. Um, but I. Very sad to be moving back to Korea, but, um, I’m grateful at least to be able to have, um, both experiences, um, as tough as it was.

[00:08:28] Sunbin: Yeah.

[00:08:28] Angela: Yeah. I can like totally empathize and imagine that because. We also, we did Chinese school as kids until we’re like 17, but we’ve always said like, I mean, for us, it was like once week, I don’t know if it’s the same for you with Korean school, but like, yeah. It’s like once a week for like a couple hours a day, you just will never make the progress.

[00:08:52] Angela: of like the same age person in the motherland because no, she’s not exposed to it

[00:08:58] Sunbin: as much. Like.

[00:08:59] Angela: I’m sure your parents spoke Korean at home though, because our parents spoke Chinese at home. Mm-hmm but it’s just not the same thing cuz talking and like reading and writing so

[00:09:08] Sunbin: different. Oh, it’s just like, yeah, definitely different.

[00:09:10] Sunbin: And like, I think like I tried to cuz I was like in the top class at like Korean school. So like I was like try to, I would like speak to like all the, the elders, like at church, like in Korean and you know, I, you know, obviously. I can get by. Like, it’s not a big deal, but obviously, like you said, that it’s, it’s a lot more harder because I wasn’t like completely immersed in like in Korean culture, but yeah, that was us too.

[00:09:35] Angela: My mom had me like skip grades in Chinese school. So I definitely thought I was

[00:09:38] Sunbin: like really good. Wow. And then, but whenever I talked to my

[00:09:42] Angela: cousin, oh yeah, yeah, Jesse. I was like two, two or three years ahead. Kids were like older than me. um, but not me girls but no. And then when I go back to Taiwan, like whenever I go back and my cousins talk to me, it’s, there’s something about like, even just like your native tongue, you talk a lot faster.

[00:09:59] Angela: Mm-hmm than people realize who are not native in that language. So like when my cousin talks, honestly, sometimes I’m like blink blank, blink blank. I’m like, what are you saying? he’s talking so fast. Like bro. Call, call . Oh yeah.

[00:10:15] Sunbin: For.

[00:10:18] Angela: Hey listeners, wondering how you can support us. The biggest way is by increasing our visibility by following us on Instagram at where are you from pod on TikTok at, but where are you really from subscribing to our YouTube channel under, but where are you really from podcast rating and reviewing us on apple podcast and telling your friends.

[00:10:35] Angela: The more people we can get to listen to the show. The more we can continue spotlighting different perspectives and stories. And if you feel so inclined, we’re also accepting donations@buymeiacoffee.com slash where are you from? Thanks. Y’all. Okay. So then you were in Korea for middle school and high school, you said before then college

[00:10:56] Sunbin: back on the stage?

[00:10:57] Sunbin: Yeah. So like a little, so I technically graduated elementary school in Korea cuz um, elementary school is up to it’s it’s up to sixth grade. Um, in Korea and then it’s three years of middle school and three years of high school. Um, so I was, uh, in Korea from like the Korean fifth grade, um, until like 12th, um, throughout high school.

[00:11:21] Sunbin: Yep. And then went back to college in the, in the states. Yep. The decision to go to college

[00:11:27] Angela: in the states. What was driving that I’m sure there were lots of things that were kind of driving

[00:11:32] Sunbin: that. I think the, I think the only, the, it was a decision that I made the minute I actually stepped foot back in Korea.

[00:11:38] Sunbin: Um, I was very . I was very determined to go back. Uh, like I like, cuz for me at the time, like I was pretty whitewashed. Um, uh, like I, I carry, I carried a Korean passport, but like. That really wasn’t who I identified with. So when I moved back to Korea, I was like, I’m gonna do whatever I can to move back to the states.

[00:12:03] Sunbin: Um, and you know, I always like picture it in my mind, like, like to try to figure out a way to do it. And obviously the way to do it for me was going to be college. So I, I like, I think it took me a while to find more of a reason to go back, but like my initial drive to go back to the states. Because for college was because I, it was home for me.

[00:12:27] Sunbin: So that’s why I wanted to go back. Yeah. Did

[00:12:30] Jesse: that goal change at all for you? The longer you stayed in Korea? Like, did you get more used to it where you were like, uh, maybe I could stay here or you were like, no. I’m, as soon as I’m out of 12, I’m booking it

[00:12:41] Sunbin: back to the us. I think like, it’s, it’s not like, like, I think I’ve gotten, I’ve like, even now, like, I think.

[00:12:48] Sunbin: I, I definitely appreciate the time I spent in Korea. Like, um, you know, I have like a newfound understanding and, you know, I, I can talk to my parents a lot better there’s things that I can understand better, like, because I understand the Korean culture, uh, more, more so than I did before. Um, I don’t think it ever crossed my mind, um, Ashley to stay in Korea long term.

[00:13:11] Sunbin: Um, I think those thoughts, if anything came. Relatively recently. Um, but at least at the time, like middle school and high school, I was like, Uh, I was always considered a foreigner. Um, my, my Korean accent has gotten like my, my Korean accent has gotten better. Um, but, uh, at least from middle school and high school, I really sounded like an, an American, like trying to talk in Korean.

[00:13:36] Sunbin: Um, so everyone knew like I wasn’t from around there. Um, but, um, I mean, I think I sound, I, I think from what my coworkers tell me, I sound a little more Korean now. Um, but because I was always called a foreigner, I never felt completely at. Even though I was Korean. Um, so I think for me, like, even though like, I, I love my friends here, like, and you know, I, I, I, I created like somewhat of a support group in, in Korea.

[00:14:02] Sunbin: Um, I was always determined to go back at some point,

[00:14:05] Angela: following up on this kind of the feeling of, or being explicitly told that you’re the foreigner. I’m curious if there was any. Kind of mixed expectation from you because, um, they simultaneously can like pick up that you’re not like from Korea as they, you know, would explain

[00:14:27] Sunbin: that normally, but also

[00:14:29] Angela: because you are Korean, you do speak Korean you’re in the country.

[00:14:32] Angela: You’re, you know, living, being educated and later on being, you know,

[00:14:37] Sunbin: working there. Do you also feel that you have

[00:14:41] Angela: any. Pressures or like expectation to conform because you are in the country or is that, are you kind of exempt from that because they see you as

[00:14:52] Sunbin: like more foreigner status? I think, I think I tried really hard to.

[00:14:59] Sunbin: To kind of get into that Korean culture. Like, you know, because I do want, you know, as a, you know, as a teenager, obviously you wanna fit in. So like, I, I think I, I tried and there are definitely things like I’ve picked up on. And, but, um, I think there’s always a limit because I just never, like, if I like started out, like growing up in a Korea, I think it would’ve been a lot easier, but like, Like, for example, like, you know, I like when people talk about in intake or Backstreet boys in the states, like, you know, everyone around my age, like they, you, we know what we’re talking about.

[00:15:30] Sunbin: Like, but like, if I were to do the same thing in Korea, like it’s, I, I, it’s something that I can’t really relate to because I wasn’t there during that period. Um, so I, I, I tried, but I think there were just limitations, um, to like fully like acclimate into the Korean culture. Which is really funny because I am still Korean.

[00:15:50] Sunbin: Um, I, I carry out a passport and my passport’s like, it says Republic of Korea, but, um, you know, it’s, it’s something that I just have trouble with. Yeah. Do you

[00:16:02] Jesse: ever get, um, I know you’ve lived there for a while now. Do you still ever get clocked as a foreigner? Like people will look at you and be like, you’re a foreigner.

[00:16:10] Sunbin: I think, I think it’s gotten better. It’s definitely gotten better. Um, but like, I, uh, like my, obviously like my, I had really amazing coworkers at my, at my company. Um, they like, there, there are like these like old Jews, like in their forties, um, somewhere in their thir, like, like, like mid thirties and, but they’re mostly.

[00:16:31] Sunbin: A lot older than me, they have a lot of experience. Um, but I think like they were very understanding. Um, and, um, but I think because they were understanding, it was a lot easier for me to work despite the fact that I was the way I was, but I, and thanks to them. I think I was able to become quote, unquote, more Korean and more acclimated into, into, into the culture.

[00:16:55] Sunbin: Um, yeah. but nice. I think there’s, it’s, there’s just always gonna be like, there’s always that limitation. I, I think because my company is a, was a global company, you know, it was an international company. I think it was a lot easier for me to adjust, but if I went to like a straight up like Korean company, which I did.

[00:17:14] Sunbin: Like before the company I just quit at, um, was not a fun time and definitely had, and obviously I wasn’t there for very long.

[00:17:22] Jesse: I ask that question because whenever we go back to Taiwan, we always get clock. Like even not saying anything mm-hmm people would just be like, look at you and they’ll be like, you’re.

[00:17:30] Jesse: You’re not like, uh, you’re not native really people around here and they always figure it out somehow. I don’t know. It’s

[00:17:36] Sunbin: the vibe. I think, like, I think there’s like this weird, like, uh, like Asian American vibe. Um, I think I haven’t been called out in a while I think, but I think at a certain point, like people could definitely.

[00:17:51] Sunbin: Tell just by looking it’s the vibe. I don’t know what it, I, someone told me, it’s like how I walk apparently. Um, I like apparently walk like with, with more conviction, really someone. And I, I like someone took a video of me walking. I was like, oh, I guess I kind of do, but I guess I like walk with like words, like determination or force.

[00:18:12] Sunbin: I don’t know. I guess it’s not very Asian in a way. Um, apparently with more swag, which I have no idea what that means. Um, but, um, . I, I, I guess it’s the walk. I don’t know. Well, actually,

[00:18:25] Angela: let’s, let’s get into that a little bit because I’ve talked now to a few other Korean people about

[00:18:31] Sunbin: kind of like

[00:18:33] Angela: Korean Americans versus Koreans.

[00:18:35] Angela: Okay. And I’ve been hearing this sentiment that like, Actually a lot of Korean people like don’t like Korean Americans, or they have low expectations of Korean Americans who move back to Korea because I guess I had

[00:18:53] Sunbin: heard them say, okay, that

[00:18:55] Angela: it’s like, I think Korean Americans supposedly come in a little bit too cocky or like that they have.

[00:19:02] Sunbin: they are above Koreans or they, they have so much to like

[00:19:07] Angela: teach you and they kind of come in with that kind of attitude. So then they don’t bother to like, learn more about actual Korean culture and, or try to integrate or anything like that. And so then there’s almost like a, um, initial turnoff, just because they’re Korean American, because they expect them to have this type of, kind of.

[00:19:30] Angela: attitude. Mm-hmm um, did you experience any of that or do you notice that with like other Korean Americans who moved back here that you’ve met or anything?

[00:19:38] Sunbin: I think. maybe I, I don’t think I felt it personally also I’m like very like numb to a lot of these things. So maybe like people were like throwing shade and I just wasn’t aware of it.

[00:19:53] Sunbin: Maybe. I think when listening to the question, I think the first thing that comes to mind is like looking at Korean American celebrities, um, that come back to Korea to like, uh, to you. Do whatever. Um, I think when I see my mom’s reaction, um, because like obvi, you know, when you think, like, if you’re going to work in Korea, like you should at least know the language.

[00:20:18] Sunbin: Um, but I think, uh, there are obviously there are cases I think with some celebrities that. Don’t really do the, like, make the effort, um, to learn Korean because like, they, I don’t know what the reasoning is. I’m I’m sure maybe they tried and it just wasn’t as easy. I’m sure. Maybe they have other reasons.

[00:20:37] Sunbin: But I think like, at least from my parents’ point of view, like, like when they’re not even making, like, they’ve been like working in Korea for like a really long time and they still can speak Korean. Whereas there’s like foreigners, like straight up foreigners, like who have never like, associated with Korea until they very recently, like they come to Korea and they learn the language so well in like two years.

[00:20:59] Sunbin: Um, I think when my parents see that comparison, um, I think they do tend to get a little disappointed. Um, but I mean, I, I feel like, you know, if you’re coming to Korea, like you should at least knew the language. I think that’s why, um, I think maybe it comes from cockiness. I don’t know, but I, I, I don’t think I feel it that much maybe, but again, again, I’m very dumb to it.

[00:21:23] Sunbin: I haven’t felt it, I think personally, but then again, I’m not really current. I don’t know what I associate myself with. I dunno. I dunno. I dunno.

[00:21:34] Jesse: So what was the opposite experience like when you went from Korea back to the us for college, did you experience

[00:21:40] Sunbin: any? That was so fine. I like fit in just perfectly fine.

[00:21:44] Sunbin: I didn’t feel like a disassociation whatsoever. Um, I mean, like it, it was a lot, the transition, I think was a lot easier. It was like very familiar. Um, so even though it was a different city, um, like very familiar. Um, obviously my English, like was not upgraded to a college level. Um, I mean, yes, I took the STDs and everything, but like, you know, speaking wise, like it wasn’t to that level.

[00:22:07] Sunbin: Um, so like maybe there was a little trouble with like vocabulary, but like the, the, at least the cultural, like, transition, like it was very seamless. Um, Yeah, it was very, very easy also, like I think in some cases when, um, international students move to the states or to a different country, they, in some cases they tend to stay in that bubble of international students.

[00:22:32] Sunbin: Um, so they don’t really branch out. Um, for me, like I didn’t want to do that. Um, so for me, I, I think I tried to make the conscious decision to at least branch out to like everyone and not. Close myself off to international. So, because it, like, I feel like it’s very limiting. Like you want, I feel like if you’re there, like you should be able to like immerse yourself in the culture and like be able to like, take advantage of it.

[00:22:56] Sunbin: And if you just, you know, just kind of close yourself off, like it’s such a dis your pay. It’s really expensive to go to college in the states as an international student. Um, I would like to. Make most of every book that has been put into it. So for me, like, I, I tried, I think maybe that’s why my transition was a lot more seamless than others.

[00:23:19] Sunbin: Um, but I, for me, like, it was really great to be back in the states.

[00:23:23] Angela: Were there any culture shocks, like specifically I’m thinking dating oh, because dating in Asia’s so like wholesome, I feel like compared

[00:23:32] Sunbin: to. The thing for me is like, so I went to an all girls middle school and high school. I mean, obviously people can date.

[00:23:41] Sunbin: It doesn’t matter, but I was very, um, uh, I did not have that many options. Um, and I didn’t have that many as many opportunities. Um, so I didn’t actually start like dating. Um, until I got into college, actually. So, uh, I mean, I I’ve, I’ve seen the differences because I have dated in Korea since I’ve been back.

[00:24:01] Sunbin: Um, but I haven’t, I didn’t get that culture shock until like, I guess relatively recently, not, not when I went to college. So then doing the Asian

[00:24:11] Angela: dating style as an adult, after doing American dating style in college, were you like, this is too wholesome. like what’s

[00:24:20] Sunbin: you were like, hold my hand.

[00:24:26] Sunbin: It was, um, uh, it was interesting. I think, uh, the thing is like, even in, in Korea, I think I. I really hope my parents will listen to this. Um, they probably won’t. Um, but, um, I, I try to find somewhat for me because I feel a lot more Americanized and I feel Korean. So I just feel, I mean, I always ask by like, when I was like back in Korea, I would ask my friends, like, you know, if you can, like, can you introduce me to someone?

[00:24:57] Sunbin: Like, can you like set me up on some, like a date they never did. Thanks guys. Um, but. Like, so I like would try Tinder or like coffee meats, bagel in Korea. Um, and you know, I, I would find people like who are not Korean at least, or if they were Korean, like have a similar background. Um, to me, I did date Korean people.

[00:25:19] Sunbin: Um, I don’t know. I feel like my, I don’t know if my experience can like define all. The, the average Korean, like dating life, um, and also like dating in like a Christian setting is like very different as well, which I had, I, I did the, the only like, super like, Serious relationship I had was in Korea was like in a Korean, like Christian, uh, environment.

[00:25:46] Sunbin: So I feel like that’s like a double whammy with like wholesomeness. Mm. So, um, I don’t know if that was a good thing or a bad thing. Gotcha. Um, it was, uh, it was, it was interesting, but yeah, um, very different, uh, experience obviously with dating, uh, compared to states.

[00:26:01] Angela: Oh, I hope this does not come off offensive if it does.

[00:26:06] Angela: I’m sorry, but I dunno how else to ask this question is, um,

[00:26:11] Sunbin: because you

[00:26:12] Angela: have essentially, you have an American accent mm-hmm when you speak English. Yeah. Like, did you find that there unexpected kind of like benefits to it or like drawbacks to it? Because I imagine. Because you described your transition back to the states in college as like fairly seamless.

[00:26:33] Angela: And for me, I’m just imagining that being able to speak English without like a Korean accent was probably like, really helpful for that, because then. I don’t know whether people have like a unknowing bias or like explicit bias. I think some people just are like less willing to engage with international students who have like worse English, worse English, or like English with an accent, because they just don’t feel as like a kin as strong of a kinship or whatever to them.

[00:27:05] Angela: So did you feel like your accent. In English benefited you or did it,

[00:27:12] Sunbin: did you

[00:27:12] Angela: get any like weirdness with like other international kids because you had, you know, like perfect English,

[00:27:18] Sunbin: anything like that? I don’t, I don’t know about drawbacks, but I think definitely an advantage, like, like anywhere I went, um, like I think, like, I think you, you like said it perfectly.

[00:27:27] Sunbin: I think, I think probably the big reasons, like one of the big reasons why my transition was, was quite seamless, um, back to the states was because I sound like one of, one of, one of them, one of us, I, I don’t know one of, one of them. Um, so I think it, it prob I think the thing with the accent, I think. um, what people are maybe comfortable with also like if, whether or not you can understand them.

[00:27:54] Sunbin: Um, I think even with work, um, like my past job, I had to speak my, a lot of, uh, my work was in English. Um, so I think for me, it just made it easier to when someone can, I think with the accent, when someone can understand you, it just makes things a lot easier. So I think whether it was cause or work, uh, because I sounded.

[00:28:16] Sunbin: Somewhat coherent. I think it definitely made, uh, people, I guess, listen a lot more easily, um, than if I had a Korean accent. So definitely more benefits than drawbacks, which I’m definitely. Day before. Yeah. Yeah. And

[00:28:34] Angela: you, you told me a little story the other night about at work, how, like sometimes your coworkers ask you to do the presentations or something because your English is better.

[00:28:44] Angela: So

[00:28:45] Sunbin: like, uh, me, like I said, like all like my, the, the guys that I worked with, um, or like they, most of them weren’t like in their forties or like their late thirties, um, they, they have a bit of an, they like, they like grew up in Korea and like, they spent all their time in Korea. So like obviously when they speak English, they have an accent and they, it’s not like their English is bad.

[00:29:05] Sunbin: It’s just like, I think more of a confidence issue. Um, but like he would all, like, there was just one coworker, um, who would like. You kind of tell me to do the first, like it, like, because I, I sound more coherent. So like, he, he, honestly, his English is fine. Like, it’s just like, it’s not perfect, but like for someone who like grew up and is in Korea and like are in their forties and like trying to speak English and get their thoughts across, like, he’s fine.

[00:29:34] Sunbin: Like he might be missing like an, a, the here and there, but like, he can definitely get his thoughts across, but like, he would always ask if I’m in the same meeting, he would always ask me to do. Like a presentation or like answer it. He’d like, he’d like write the answer like in Korean and then is like, this is the answer.

[00:29:51] Sunbin: Like, can you. Tell them this, he would like whisper or like he would like chat on slack, be like, ah, this is what, like, can you like, make sure, like they understand like what this is? And I was like, oh, well, yeah. I think it’s more of like the confidence issue, but like, these people are like perfectly like coherent.

[00:30:09] Sunbin: It’s just like, it’s definitely a confidence issue. But yeah, because

[00:30:13] Angela: Korea is like globalizing so quickly and like the kind of inner mix of, you know, Korean culture. Being exported to the west and also like importing Western stuff into Korea. Did you find that, I mean, you mentioned that this last job you had was a more global company, but do you feel like, you know, because that’s kind of where things are trending, the ability to kind of bridge both cultures is like a big benefit in something that is going to continue kind of being an opportunity for people who can.

[00:30:47] Angela: Speak, both languages and like, you know, traverse both cultures, cuz that’s kind of the sense I get, obviously not with like super old school or conservative companies, but like tech and future innovation and whatever, it kind of feels like it needs to be this newer environment with. Different types of talent now?

[00:31:08] Angela: Um,

[00:31:10] Sunbin: I think, I think with any, like, I mean, you guys are also bilingual, um, or trilingual, I guess, in or quad Al I don’t know. Uh, like, I mean, you guys speak more than one language, um, fairly free. Yeah. Like free like fluently. Um, so I think be having. Having, I think it’s a privilege to do that. Um, which I think for me, like, I’m, that’s why I am very thankful that I was able to move back, uh, to Korea, like in middle school and high school, because if I didn’t have that, like I would probably be only like be speaking English.

[00:31:42] Sunbin: And like, my Korean would probably like be very barely light passing, but, but like, I think, um, I think being able to speak more than one language is like, I think, like being able to bridge like multiple cultures into one, especially in such a global climate, I think is definitely, it’s a huge advantage.

[00:32:02] Sunbin: And also I think it’s a huge privilege. Um, and I think being able to understand like, uh, like both cultures, um, I think. It allows, like, I think when you get a lot of questions, like you can at least answer, um, in context, Be able to make a better, a better represent. I think a lot of people ask me about Korea and like, obviously I wanna be able to represent it.

[00:32:29] Sunbin: Um, well, um, and I think when I am able to understand, like either if it’s us culture or an English speaking culture, like I can make like a, a connection that people can, um, easily, like understand. Is that making any sense? Um, but like, I think it’s just because I have an understanding of. More than well, culture.

[00:32:52] Sunbin: Like it allows me to like help other people understand that, that difference as well or similarity.

[00:32:58] Jesse: I just had a quick question. I wanted to know what your thoughts are on the difference between academics in Korea, going to college and the us. And then if you worked in the us, how that is like versus working in Korea, cuz we very often have this thing where it’s like academics is like very competitive in Asian countries.

[00:33:17] Jesse: Mm-hmm and then like the students come here and they’re like, Easy. What really? Aside from the language aspect. Oh yeah. I feel like aside from the language aspect, I feel like a lot of people are like, oh, it’s not as D.

[00:33:29] Sunbin: uh, my high school was very competitive. I went to an all girls school and then I went to something called a foreign language high school.

[00:33:34] Sunbin: So we had to take a test to get in and you had to have really good grade. It’s like, it’s, I guess this equivalent of a magnet program in the states. Um, so I like, I’m not trying to say that I’m smart. I was just very surrounded by like very competitive people. And especially when it comes to girls, I don’t, I’m not trying to like, Like, I’m not trying to be SIS or like best or anything, but like they get, tend to get a little more Cady and very sensitive.

[00:33:59] Sunbin: And like when the stress piles up, it gets more intense. Um, so I think it was like very competitive and very, very like a little toxic. Um, so I think at a certain point I just stopped studying. Um, I like kind of let go, which was, uh, probably bad. My parents were not happy, but I mean, I got into, I got, uh, good enough grades that I be able to go to a school in the states, obviously.

[00:34:26] Sunbin: Um, but for me, I like maybe that’s why, but, uh, I also studied architecture. Um, so for me, like it was harder. Like to study in, in, in, in college. Um, I, maybe it’s easier for some people, but that just saw me, uh, because I apparently did not study enough in, in high school. Yeah. I guess your track

[00:34:47] Jesse: is very different.

[00:34:48] Jesse: It’s like very specialized. I feel like, uh, a lot of other students are going into very, you know, they start with like the very generic, like core mathematics, economics, whatever class is. And they’re like, oh, it’s. Simplistic, but yeah, probably architecture is a little bit

[00:35:01] Sunbin: different. Uh, yeah. I like, I mean, everything was very new and like, you know, you have this like very like vague, like very vague, like rainbows, like sparkles, like dream, like vision of what architecture is.

[00:35:13] Sunbin: And then when you actually start doing it, it’s really not what it seems like. I mean, I’m jealous. Like I wish I had the easy way out. Like for me, college was really rough. Um, I actually had to. Uh, I got like burned out, like halfway, like not even halfway through, like towards my, like it’s a five year program.

[00:35:29] Sunbin: I got, I like, got burnt out. Like my fourth year I like had, I took time off, like I took a year off. Um, so like, I don’t know how other people are doing. Um, but I did not do very well. Again, I think I’m an exception to the average career people, Korean person, like in a lot of categories. Um, this is just one of.

[00:35:45] Sunbin: Yeah. So,

[00:35:46] Angela: uh, we always end on a closing section that we call the fortune cookie because we always like to end on a sweet treat. Ooh. So the question’s always kind of like trying to be a high note. Um, so we wanted to ask you, what are you most looking forward to moving back to the us and what are you going to miss the most about

[00:36:08] Sunbin: Korea?

[00:36:08] Sunbin: Oh, okay. So the thing I think I’m gonna miss the most, um, is my. Uh, especially my parents they’re in the other room. So, you know, just keep it between us obviously.

[00:36:21] Angela: Oh, you can see it

[00:36:21] Sunbin: louder. nah, they don’t need to know. Um, but I think when I was in college, like I would come back home and like, it’d be great.

[00:36:30] Sunbin: But like after like a couple weeks I’d be like ready to go. Um, like I’m like, , Jesse’s like, yes. Um, like I’m like, I’m like as much as like, I, I love spending time with him, like, you know, Like a week, two weeks is enough. Like, you know, I’m ready to go back to like school and everything. And I think I, I was at that point, um, obvi like, because I’ve been living at home, uh, for quite some time, uh, since I’ve been back, um, So like, you know, I, I miss that freedom, like what, you know, and not having to constantly be reporting back to someone like, you know, when I’m coming home and obviously, you know, um, but I think there’s a sense of safety that I’m definitely gonna miss.

[00:37:11] Sunbin: Um, and for me, like, CRA’s a little far from San Francisco. So, you know, it’s, it’s not like I can, it’s not like a, a drive away. Um, so it’s a lot trickier for me to be traveling back home, like every holiday or every Thanksgiving. Um, so I think it’s definitely gonna be tougher for me to be able to meet them in person.

[00:37:29] Sunbin: Um, so I think I’m definitely gonna miss my parents and like, just like those random, like late, uh, interactions, just like late night, uh, late night, um, talks with them in general. I think I’m gonna miss. Um, but I am excited, I think to be back again like San Francisco, uh, it’s a new city. I have not never lived there.

[00:37:50] Sunbin: Um, but I’m, I think I’m just excited to be back in a, in a culture that I feel more comfortable with as much as I feel comfortable. now, uh, in the Korean culture a lot more so than before. Um, but there’s always something in the back of my mind, somewhere in my heart that I just it’s so strange. Again, I, I, I still hold a Korean passport.

[00:38:13] Sunbin: I don’t have an American passport. Um, I’m full on Korean. Um, but there’s just a sense of home. I think that I, I’m excited to go back to, um, I, I, I don’t know if I, I told, uh, Angela this during our, our dinner last time. Um, I went to the UK a couple of months ago, and again, never lived there, visited a couple times, but just the fact that I can, the minute I like set foot there, I just felt very comfortable, like being able to speak English in that environment.

[00:38:44] Sunbin: Um, not that my English is like all that great. Um, I, I just feel a lot more expressive. Um, In English more so in Korean and just being able to be in an English speaking culture was so relieving. Um, and so more comfortable. Um, so like just it at U UK, a country that I’ve never been to, um, being that comfortable and just feeling that I think that’s also what drove me to pursue, um, Grad school, um, back in the states because I, I, I miss miss that culture.

[00:39:18] Sunbin: I miss that familiar familiarity and like that comfortable, like feeling I’m just really excited to be back at like in a place where I feel more home at home.

[00:39:30] Angela: Yeah. I think we talked about at the dinner, but. It’s almost like, because you feel more comfortable speaking English, there’s like a part of your personality that is like unlocked because you can like fully express yourself as opposed to there’s certain like vocabulary or slang or whatever that you’re missing in Korean that doesn’t allow you to like express your

[00:39:53] Sunbin: full self.

[00:39:54] Sunbin: For sure. Yeah. I mean, I, I think I, I said this like during dinner too, I was like, when I get like emotional or like, Angry. Like things get really aggravated with my parents. Like, I’ll start in Korean. And then I’ll like, I’ll go into English because like, there’s just a limitation to my Korean. I’m just like, God go speak in English.

[00:40:13] Sunbin: And then they’re like, don’t speak in English, speak in Korean. And obviously the, the fight goes back into Korean, but there’s, there’s like, I think yeah. So I’m definitely a lot more expressive in, in English, uh, than, uh, Korean.

[00:40:26] Angela: Well, we, the Asian American community welcomes you back with open arms,

[00:40:34] Sunbin: excited, excited to be back to go back.

[00:40:36] Sunbin: Yeah. Awesome. Well,

[00:40:37] Angela: thank you so much for joining us and providing your perspective. It’s been cool to hear kind of your back and forth and the. The different challenges and good things that came

[00:40:48] Sunbin: with that. Um, thank you for having me. I hope I felt like I, like, I don’t even know what I was saying. Uh, hopefully, uh it’s uh

[00:40:54] Sunbin: It was, it was, uh, sub I hope you get a bit of, there was a bit of substance, um, that you guys could work with. Um, but yeah, thank you. This was really, uh, nice. Um, I’m glad I had a chance to talk to both of you. All right, listeners, if you have any

[00:41:10] Angela: questions for Sunbin, although she’s gonna be busy soon with her grad school.

[00:41:13] Sunbin: Yeah. But if you have questions for her

[00:41:15] Angela: or you have, um, perspective you wanna provide, also, if you kind of like. I feel a kinship to this third culture kid vibe that we threw out there. Write us in at tell us where you’re from@gmail.com and we can pass on any questions that you have or share any stories that you wanna share about your life, um, on the show.

[00:41:36] Angela: And come back next week because we will have another new episode for you

Note: Transcript fully created by automated AI

[00:00:00] Angela: Hey everyone. I’m Angela Lin

[00:00:02] Jesse: And I’m Jesse Lin. And welcome back to another episode of, but where are you really? From this week? We wanted to start off with a post by Mary Andrew an on. Well that I found on Instagram and I found kind of this short little story or vignette that she put together that really kind of reflected how I was feeling at a certain point in time, which probably was March when we were like planning this.

[00:00:29] Jesse: So I was like to kick it off by reading it to everybody if that’s okay. It’s okay. Thank you. Permission granted, um, I’m washing my face before bed while the world appears to be crumbling. Wildfires are shooting an. It feels ridiculous to wash my face. It feels ridiculous. Not to, it has never been this way.

[00:00:49] Jesse: And it has always been this way. Someone has always clinked a cocktail glass in one hemisphere while someone loses a home in another while someone falls in love in the same apartment building where someone grieves the fact that suffering beauty and mundane. Mundane coincide is unbearable and remarkable.

[00:01:09] Jesse: How is a person supposed to do ordinary things like face wash or big things like fall in love? When a quick phone scroll is both advertising designer socks and informing me of wildfires. I despair with an exhale. Then I refuse to despair with an exhale. I scroll some more, a new baby, a flower firefighters, a threatened world holds so much.

[00:01:32] Jesse: What does it look like to state in the midst of despair? I choose energy. For starters, I choose to finish washing my face. Then I choose to look not away from, but toward, I choose to trust first in goodness. Then in the people I know then in people I’ll never know, always in myself. I choose to enjoy. I choose a new record.

[00:01:54] Jesse: I choose to change my habits. I choose to send a supportive text. I choose to show up at a birthday party because grief and celebration often happen in the same night. So, yeah, so I was reading this and I was like, oh my God, this is like exactly how I feel be coming out of, again, we don’t know pandemic, blah, blah, blah, pandemic coming out of that.

[00:02:17] Jesse: And then like having the war in Ukraine and kind of. Constantly being bombarded with news about what’s happening in different parts of the world. That is so negative. It can really, it really started to make me feel like, what am I really doing like that? I live my life in such opposition to people that I know, even though I don’t personally know them like to people that I know are in dire straits or really need.

[00:02:45] Jesse: and there was just like a period where I’ve, I’ve had like a lot of anxiety over the past two to three years, but there was like a period where I was just like, I just don’t really know what I’m doing with my life anymore and what I was aiming my life towards, like my goals. Sit like, it was really hard to just reconcile that with kind of everything that I was seeing, feeling, hearing, reading.

[00:03:11] Jesse: And so I think we just wanted to take this episode to really dive into that and kind of say like, how do we move about our lives? Knowing that there are all these other happening across the world that may not be the same as your own. That may not be as privileged as your own. Um, and still feel like comfortable, not comfortable.

[00:03:32] Jesse: Maybe comfortable’s not the right word, but still feel like you can be grounded in your own life and not kind of be lost to all of that stuff that is happening.

[00:03:43] Angela: Yeah. , uh, really heavy. I mean, I think this really resonates with me, especially. Since we just recorded the episode with Alex in Ukraine. Um, that was like a very direct kind of contrast between our lives and like the most currently the most kind of like dire situation going on in the world on the opposite end.

[00:04:13] Angela: Right. And it was kind of like, I, I mean, I literally just, uh, edited that episode. So it’s like very top of mind for me. And I’m like, there were so many moments where you and I were just like, I don’t have words to respond to what you just said, because it’s just so opposite of like what’s going on in our lives.

[00:04:36] Angela: And it does make me, at least at the time, feel really grateful for my own life privilege for sure. And kind of. At a loss of like, what, what do I do with this information of like, besides feel like extremely sad and like guilty. Do you ever feel that right? Just like guilty that you are not in a worse off position, even though it’s not your choice necessarily that, you know, everyone.

[00:05:08] Angela: Is in where they are in life. A lot of it started with kind of like things out of your circumstance, like where you were born, how were you were born, what family you were born into and like, and even school, like where you ended up going to school, if you did higher education, not everyone has the choice to like go anywhere.

[00:05:29] Angela: You could have had constraints based on like financial things or your family really needed you nearby, or you didn’t go to school because you had other things you had to care of. So a lot of things seem like they’re kind of out of your control. So then when you’re in a specific position and it is kind of like, I don’t know, quote unquote better than a another person’s situation.

[00:05:49] Angela: Sometimes I feel this like guilt. Even though I didn’t choose a lot of what makes me where I am now, if that

[00:05:57] Jesse: makes sense. Yeah, no, it definitely does. I will say I don’t feel guilty necessarily about where I am, but I do feel, I feel kind of what you were saying, like at a loss, like, I just don’t know what to do to help people, like, I know people need help, but.

[00:06:16] Jesse: I’m not sure how I personally can do anything for anyone. And it feeds into this kind of like helplessness in your life that I feel like the past two years have, has really kind of built. Right? It’s been isolating. You have you, for many parts of it, you were like, I have no idea what’s happening. Like, I don’t know when I can see people again.

[00:06:39] Jesse: for me as like, like more of a type a person I’m literally like, my life is literally out of my control and it like was freaking me out. And then to see something like this, it just adds like another thing where I’m like, wow, like there’s so much stuff happening. I don’t really know. what to do. Like, it’s kind of out of my control because like, I think about like all the things that I could do, like I, Don I could donate money.

[00:07:02] Jesse: I do donate money. I could write a Congress person, but like, how useful would that be at this point in time? Like, so they’re like all these things where I’m like, I could do this thing, but I’m like, how helpful is it like to the end person? And at the same time, maybe the only guilty part that I feel is that like, I’m also not like I’m not so, so, um, empathetic that I would.

[00:07:23] Jesse: Discard my own life to, to go do something about that, which is like, that’s probably like the other guilt part that I feel if I think about it too, too long. Yeah. Yeah,

[00:07:33] Angela: totally. And going back to what you said about kind of like. You feeling some anxiety from being bombarded with like a lot of things and opposite things.

[00:07:45] Angela: Juxtaposed, I think going back to the poster you read, it’s like very much, I think a big part of it is social media and it’s kind of like Omni presence in our lives. Because if you think about it, like, especially war, right. Where specifically, we’re just talking about the Ukraine war. war is not new. There have been many wars, um, in the history of man, but also even within our own lifetimes, like we’ve been in, we just exited Afghanistan, right?

[00:08:17] Angela: Like very recently that was a decades long war as well. And. I feel like this compared to that is like very different because of how present social media has made everything in life and around the world and how easily you can access anything that’s happening. so like in that post, you just read it’s like, while she’s looking at baby pictures of babies, there’s also like wildfires or whatever, right?

[00:08:49] Angela: Like, so in this situation, be like, you could see some like high Instagram model and then scroll and see like, uh, building collapse in Ukraine or whatever. Right. And it’s like, both things exist at the same time and you’re. Forced to see this like huge disparity in like all these contrasts that exist in life all at the same time, as opposed to like pre-social media.

[00:09:13] Angela: Like at the time of like invading Iraq and Afghanistan, it was like, Social media’s extent was like early Facebook. I think it was like, you know, invite only Facebook at that time. It’s like that kind of internet time did not expose us to any more of the world than like we had already been exposed to. So it was largely like, What you were fed by that media, what you hear from other people, maybe some people, you know, do have some, like, relationship what’s going on and you kind of hear a few things, but otherwise you’re very shielded.

[00:09:48] Angela: It was almost like ignorance is bliss. And now we have access to everything and it’s almost like it’s a trap in and of itself being able to access

[00:09:59] Jesse: everything. I will say like one slight off topic thing. I also feel like with FG, Afghanistan, and Iraq, like, I just don’t think there was as much infrastructure there to support constant, like social media sharing the way that there is in Ukraine.

[00:10:13] Jesse: Because I don’t, I don’t know if people think of Ukraine as like a backwater, but it’s like, not really. It. very, it’s like very modernized. So like there is the capability there to be always sharing stuff directly from, I mean, like we literally interviewed Alex and he’s like there with internet. So it’s, I think it’s also very like different levels of access gave this crisis, like much more visibility than in like FKM or Iraq where like people necessarily didn’t necess weren’t necessarily able to just like post whatever, because they didn’t have the proper.

[00:10:45] Jesse: In for, I don’t know. That’s why I’m guessing, but yeah. I

[00:10:47] Angela: wouldn’t know. I wouldn’t know. Um, so we might be wrong about that because I’m just, I’m just posing a kind of devil’s advocate, which is like, everyone’s favorite thing is like they’re starving children in Africa. Right. You know, like they put Africa as like the bottom of the barrel in terms of like advancement civilization, but Africa, as a continent, many countries within Africa are like some of the most advanced, like mobile.

[00:11:13] Angela: Users. Yeah. And so they’re definitely connected to the internet and like, I’ve literally seen on TikTok, like this woman who like still lives in like very traditional tribal settings within Africa and she’s like, was staying on TikTok. You know what I mean? So like, yeah. Okay. I wouldn’t know for sure.

[00:11:29] Angela: That’s fair Iraq, Africans. Well, I don’t think the culture was there, like maybe 2001 early, you know, up till. Up till Instagram, honestly, I think, or Twitter maybe was like, people didn’t have this habit of like constantly posting every single thing you’re doing and like documenting your life constantly.

[00:11:52] Angela: And what you’re seeing, it’s like that, wasn’t a thing that people did. So even if they had the access, I don’t think they would’ve done it or people wouldn’t have sought it out. You know, I

[00:12:02] Jesse: also, I feel like, cuz I do remember like. I do remember, like, remember in Egypt when there were those like uprisings, like to hear square.

[00:12:12] Jesse: Yeah. And they shut down the internet. And Twitter was like the, one of the only ways that people were still getting news out because you could text to tweet that service is still available. Mm-hmm um, I feel like part of it’s also just like. D aside from the density of information, you can also transmit just much more information, right?

[00:12:29] Jesse: Like before you could maybe only get a tweet out. Now you can get like a 4k HD video of what’s happening. And so it’s like, all the stuff is just like much more real than it was before because people can now document everything in like much higher detail and send it everywhere. So that’s, I also definitely feel like that’s part of, one of the things where it’s like, oh my God, this is like, so, um, much more present in my life than it used to be.

[00:12:53] Angela: Yeah. And then on the topic of like being bombarded and like kind of not knowing what to do with it, I feel like as people who have the privilege to not have to think about this stuff, if we don’t want to think about it, I think a common occurrence is that we honestly just stop choosing to think about it for our own mental health.

[00:13:15] Angela: Right. There is this kind of. That’s I guess for me, that’s part of the guilt is as well is kind of like, I know this terrible stuff is happening and I know that talking about it more will help in some capacity, but I’m also like tapped out mental health wise of like talking about it anymore or seeing more images of it.

[00:13:38] Angela: And so there’s almost like a self defense that’s happening where you’re like, I need to protect myself. Yeah. Your boundaries. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:13:46] Jesse: I don’t. I feel like, I think if you talk to a therapist about it, they’ll, they’ll be like, I think that’s completely fair. Like, because you can’t, there’s nothing, you can, you can’t do everything for everyone.

[00:13:57] Jesse: Like you’re not gonna solve all of the world’s problems. So by letting every problem affect you, I think you just become like less effective as a person overall, cuz you’re just like overwhelmed. Right. But. There are kind of like these big questions that linger where you’re like, there are these like big things happening in our time.

[00:14:16] Jesse: And like these main things, like, how do we, at least for me, I’m like, how do I like help that or change that or make it better. So for example, one of the main thing, like politics in the us, like, I don’t know what the fuck is happening right now, but this is not it like, this is not what everyone fucking turned out to vote for.

[00:14:33] Jesse: It’s a hundred percent not it, but at the same time, it’s like, what are you gonna do? You just tell people to go back and vote? Like it didn’t work. So there’s this kind of like sense of you can do something, but there’s a, like a jaded a little bit now. And maybe just, cuz I’m older now more jaded than I was before.

[00:14:53] Jesse: Like when I was early twenties, but there’s definitely like stuff like that where I’m just like, I just don’t like, I would love for someone to point me in a direction where I could be the most effective and then like, I’ll go do that. But I’m kind of like, I don’t know what to do.

[00:15:08] Angela: Hey listeners, wondering how you can support us.

[00:15:11] Angela: The biggest way is by increasing our visibility by following us on Instagram at where are you from pod on TikTok at, but where are you really from subscribing to our YouTube channel under, but where are you really from podcast rating and reviewing us on apple podcasts and telling your friends the more people we can get to listen to the show, the more we can continue spotlighting different perspectives and.

[00:15:31] Angela: And if you feel so inclined, we’re also accepting donations@buymeacoffee.com slash where are you from? Thanks. Y’all yeah. Yeah, I think that’s totally fair. The jaded aspect. I mean, when you don’t see results that you’ve been fighting for, it definitely discourages you from repeating certain actions. I. For me, there’s also this other question, like you were asking, like, what is the most effective thing for me to do?

[00:16:02] Angela: How can I actually affect change? And like, in these instances, for example of like war or whatever, right? It, it kind of reminds me of the question of like, what is it? Oh, we’ve talked about this kind of like fight or flight. Right. But like, if all of us. In the world have the same mentality as us of like, we need to self preserve and it’s healthy to self preserve.

[00:16:30] Angela: Nobody would step up to the plate to like truly help. Right. It’s kind of like bystander bias, right? When like there’s someone who is in need of help. And like, everyone’s like someone else will help them. And then nobody helps them. I, there is another like sense of guilt, I guess for me, it’s like, oh, am I such a.

[00:16:50] Angela: that I have like no bravery in me to like, do the like hard thing that no one else wants to do or whatever. Right. And what would become of the world if no one had that bravery to do that thing, like. in the Alex episode. I mean, I was very conflicted because I was basically, I was asking him like, what are Russians supposed to do?

[00:17:12] Angela: You know what I mean? Like you’re, you know, you were asking them to do something, but like, if they’re gonna get thrown in jail for 15 years or potentially just like disappeared or whatever for trying to do something, like how, how do you really ask someone to do that? And his response. You know, it was a conflicted response.

[00:17:28] Angela: It was kind of like, well, they can strike or whatever, but I’m like, secretly. I was like, I mean, they couldn’t still be disappeared and like jailed forever for doing that. And yes, some people will be brave and like take up that potential punishment, but it’s a lot to ask for like an average person to, to do that.

[00:17:47] Angela: And I think a lot of people are not brave enough honestly, to like, yeah. Do

[00:17:52] Jesse: something that risk. Yeah, no, I, I agree with you and it’s hard to ask that of other people when you don’t necessarily know if, when it comes down to it, like you will actually do that. Right. So like during like all the BL BLM stuff, like I went out for like a few marches with people.

[00:18:17] Jesse: It was never a situation. Like there are kind of like different kinds of demonstrations, right? There’s the one where you’re like, okay, like you’re probably not gonna get arrested. The risk is pretty low. And then there are the ones that are like really confrontational that you probably were gonna get arrested.

[00:18:32] Jesse: And like, I wanted to take part in that to show support, but I also didn’t wanna get arrested and. sometimes it’s hard to say which kind of demonstration had the most effect. If you, if you will, like the one that was like less confrontational or the one that’s more confrontational, but I think too, maybe what the post, the feel of the post is saying is that like, it doesn’t necessarily negate your intention and like the energy that you put into what you did, because like overall it builds into so.

[00:19:08] Jesse: Greater. So I try to think about stuff like that. Like I try to do what I feel like I can. Um, but sometimes I, I just don’t know if it’s, if I could do, if there are more things that I could do that are within the safety level that I feel comfortable with. So for example, like donating money to organizations, I think this is an effective thing to do because there are many organizations that already set up like very well to deliver services or needs or whatever to other.

[00:19:37] Jesse: But sometimes I’m like, is that all I can do? Like I could do something else maybe. Um, but I just don’t really know what that is. Yeah. I

[00:19:45] Angela: agree. I think the donating money thing is definitely it’s important. Um, I guess it just also, you can fall into the like black hole of like donating potentially to organizations that you don’t know what they’re doing with their money, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:20:00] Angela: But I I’ve definitely done that. So for example, One of the things that really, you know, I was very gung-ho about initially and then eventually just. Sapped. All of my mental health, uh, energy was all the stop Asian hate stuff. Like at the peak of last year, I was like very vocal about a lot of that stuff and trying to like amplify through this podcast and whatever.

[00:20:25] Angela: I was joining a lot of money, honestly, to like a lot of GoFund Mees, which I, I felt good about because it was like the families of victims that were setting it up. And it was like, literally this money is gonna go to like pay for their hospital bills and stuff. I was like, this, I feel good about this. Um, but I was just, yeah, it was very drained by the end of it.

[00:20:46] Angela: And I was like, I can’t do this. Like, it’s not good. Anyone like this, if I put like a half-assed effort into trying to amplify this more, it’s not gonna be effective and it’s gonna like drain me tenfold. You know what I mean? Yeah. So it was like, I had to set boundaries at a certain

[00:21:05] Jesse: point. Yeah. And I feel like talking through this, that’s kind of like the theme that is coming out, which is that like, you wanna help, but you need to set boundaries to like how much you’re willing to help.

[00:21:15] Jesse: And then within those boundaries, you. Do whatever you want. And even though sometimes that may seem insufficient, like that’s kind of like what you can do, where you are at, where, where you’re comfortable with. And I don’t know if anyone can ask more of you than that. Um, I feel kind of the same way. Like there, there were like a few organizations they Don to last year, like, um, Lambda legal, which does all of the, they like nonprofit does all the cases that are like.

[00:21:44] Jesse: L G B T QIA rights and then S SPLC, which tracks like hate groups across the us and does like research on that kind of thing. So those are like things that I, you know, donated to, and that was kind of like the extent that I feel like I could help. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:22:03] Angela: Well, I’m gonna take this shit real. Woo boo. Now.

[00:22:06] Angela: Um, woo. Woo. Oh, okay. Yeah, you weren’t expecting, this is not in our outline. lay it on thick. Well, So for me, part of, kind of what drives my, the things that I get involved with and kind of the extent to which I get involved with them comes a lot down to my gut, feeling around something and like how much of a fire there is within me to like, push to do a certain thing.

[00:22:36] Angela: Like, I feel like there’s this. thing I feel inside where it’s like, okay, it’s incredibly important for me to talk about this thing or to like give money to this thing or like share this thing or whatever it is that I feel is within my capacity to do, like, it’s a, it’s the reason, for example, that we’ve recorded two episodes about the Korean war mm-hmm and then of like busted my ass to push those episodes out within a very short amount of time from when we record them, just because it’s the most relevant.

[00:23:08] Angela: I feel like part of what’s driving that well, all of us have intuition, right? That’s like, forget whatever spec end of the spectrum you are on spirituality. Everyone believes that you have like instinct of some sort gut feelings, right. For me going into woo woo. Land. I mean, I do believe that all of us are put.

[00:23:32] Angela: On this earth, in this specific life to accomplish something. And it’s unclear what our like that, I don’t think it’s like one main purpose or whatever that all of us have, but like, you’re here for a reason like that. There’s a, we talked about this, right? Like science can explain a lot of things, but like consciousness is not something science can explain.

[00:23:52] Angela: And there’s a reason why humans have it. And other animals don’t really have that. And so we’re here for a reason. And. where it’s within our like gut feeling instinct to help other causes that are going on. We should do that. But it doesn’t mean that we need to be like pulled completely into those causes.

[00:24:17] Angela: Right? Like, I feel like if it’s something that you were actually meant to do, you would have such a strong gut feeling that you would know. Like, I need to drop everything to like, go do this thing. And. I honestly feel like that’s what drives a lot of the people that are like the, the brave people that I was talking about earlier that like, decide, like, I wanna go fight in Afghanistan, like for the eighth tour or whatever.

[00:24:41] Angela: Right. Like, there are a lot of soldiers that did that. They like did repeat

[00:24:44] Jesse: tours or like people who are in like doctors without borders and are like working in like field hospitals and stuff like that. Yeah, totally.

[00:24:51] Angela: It’s like, there’s no one that could convince them. By like, logic that they should be doing that.

[00:24:57] Angela: Right. It’s just like, they have to have that thing inside of them that tells ’em like, this is the right thing for you to do. And that’s why you’re willing to do it. So I just that’s, I guess that’s part of how I justify my own boundaries, as well as like, I know when it’s something that I feel like I need to like get really heavily into, because I’ll feel that drive.

[00:25:19] Angela: And if it’s not. If I don’t feel that, then it’s not part of my purpose in this life. I, I don’t know. It’s very Woohoo. No, but that’s kind of how I see it. I think

[00:25:30] Jesse: that makes sense. Um, I do wanna ask that question though, because when you were talking about that, I was like, oh man, like, I feel like, kind of at the beginning of the pandemic, when there were all these like kind of causes coming up, there were many things that I felt galvanized towards, like what you said.

[00:25:46] Jesse: Right. And now I just feel exhaust. Like I just see another thing and I’m like, I don’t, I feel bad, but I don’t feel galvanized anymore. Cuz I’m just exhausted by the constant like bombardment of things and, and like it just so, so draining and I feel like the barriers are there, but you have this, you know, like when you live in the city, there’s this constant just like background hum of noise.

[00:26:12] Jesse: And when you leave, you’re like, oh my God, it’s like not here anymore. That’s why I feel with all this stuff. It’s like, I. Barriered it out, but that doesn’t mean that it does not exist somewhere in my consciousness. Like constantly just taking up like a small bit of my like mental capacity. And so I think on, on certain days when I’m like really stressed about something or really anxious about something, it just like, I can no longer like, separate that out.

[00:26:42] Jesse: It’s just like all anxiety. . Yeah,

[00:26:46] Angela: well, I mean, such a stereotypical adage and I’m not gonna get the words. Right. But basically the whole concept of like, you can’t take care of others before you take care of yourself. Right? Like if you don’t fill yourself up, you are not gonna be able to care about anything else.

[00:27:03] Angela: Yeah. Because you’re, you’re already overextended, like you have nothing left to give. So I, I do feel like that’s a really important part is just like to make sure that you are giving yourself enough. Time space love to like be whole

[00:27:19] Jesse: first. I think that’s the tr I think that’s the, um, I don’t know, tricky part is that I feel like, I feel like for myself and a lot of people, you think you’ve been giving yourself time because time is all you do now with yourself.

[00:27:34] Jesse: Because a lot, I mean, a lot of people are still just at home. Some people may not even be seeing other people, but that is not necessarily. What you’re talking about, like time with yourself that like makes you feel whole, as opposed to just like spending time by yourself. And I think that that’s where it’s a little bit of like, uh, like a disconnect there for sure.

[00:27:55] Angela: Totally. I read this book a long time ago when I was like very lost in my life. um, in terms of what I wanted to do with my life. And I’m. Kind of upset that I forgot the name of it, but it was written by the one.

[00:28:11] Jesse: Was this the design your

[00:28:12] Angela: life book? Yes, exactly. I was like the IDEO founder guy. Um, and actually one of those exercises is what drove me to wanna explore podcasting.

[00:28:22] Angela: So I do think it was helpful, but one of the exercises that they. Encouraged you to do as kind of like a foundational step is like, they were like, imagine that your life has these kind of gauges or like gas meters, or whatever that you have to fill up. Right. A gas tank. And there’s like a work gas tank, um, love, uh, fun or like play or something like that.

[00:28:48] Angela: And then maybe there’s one other thing, but like, basically they’re like, Why don’t you kind of out of like a four, four grids per tank, right? Like fill right now, like how filled up do you feel in each of those categories and. what is lacking in each of those tanks that would like make those be fuller and also kind of like, what is the best balance that would make you feel the most fulfilled?

[00:29:20] Angela: Because for example, they gave some really good analog or not analogies, like actual stories of people where, for example, there are people who like don’t care about climbing the social or sorry, work ladder. They just like wanna have a good enough job that they make enough money, that they can like take care of their families and like have good work life balance, but they don’t feel fulfilled from work, but that.

[00:29:45] Angela: Like well, paying job helps them feel fulfilled and have time for family relationships for hobbies, blah, blah. So for their gas tanks work might be like two outta four. And they’re totally fine with that because then the love and the like play GA gas tanks are like four outta four. So it’s kind of like, what are the things that you are not paying enough attention to in your life?

[00:30:12] Angela: What is the right balance for you and try to like fill yourself back up for those things. And then I will add one more thing that my therapist told me that I was like, I love this, which is, I was telling her. , you know, when I transitioned out of like normal corporate job into doing this full time, and I was like, I feel like I’m gonna have a lot more free time and I’m gonna feel a lot guilt about that.

[00:30:38] Angela: Like I’m not being productive and that I’m just like wasting my life away or whatever. Right. And I was like, and especially once we start a family, like when I have kids and whatever. I’m gonna feel like all I am is like a mom and I have like nothing right else to contribute. So I was voicing these kind of concerns and she, and so I was like, yeah, I, I feel guilty of like my whole day was like, for example, like I wanna do yoga.

[00:31:09] Angela: And like, I want to like, um, go like do this hobby or whatever, and things that fill me up. Right. And she was like, I think you should think of your. Filling yourself up these activities that you’d see as like counterproductive as like you as a firefighter, because she was like similar to a firefighter.

[00:31:32] Angela: Like they don’t work all the time. Like the best case scenario is that they work none of the time, but, and what do they do when they’re not working? They’re like playing basketball, they’re cooking. They’re like hanging around with all the other guys. Right. And. It’s in your best interest as a citizen that may need their services later, that they are filled up, that they are well rested, that they have time to exercise.

[00:31:57] Angela: They have time to like, do other things when they’re not fighting fires, because then when they are called to the job, they are like full of energy and like, you know, to the max ready to like be this hero. And she was like, that’s. You are gonna be is kind of like, you need to fill yourself up as like a baseline so that when you’re required to like, pull out all this energy to like be superhero in whatever aspect you have that energy for it.

[00:32:26] Angela: And I was like, I love this because it was such a like, different way to look at

[00:32:31] Jesse: productivity. Yeah. I think it’s funny. Whenever a therapist come up with like examples and you’re like, huh. Oh, that does make sense. Cuz usually there’s something that’s like really, really. I’m like, I would never, I would come up with example like mine recently kind of in the same vein.

[00:32:46] Jesse: Like I was saying how this year is like, I need to be like nicer to myself and stop being so like critical of my life. And he was like, there was something I was telling you more. He was like, you aren’t being very nice to yourself. Are you like, and I was like, oh, he’s like, think about it this way. Like your like inner needs is like a.

[00:33:07] Jesse: That like needs to be comforted. And instead of comforting, this child, you’re just like screaming at it to stop. And I was like, I was like, first of all, I had children, like, there are like Valerie, like few others that are just like blissful joys to have around. But like, oh, like most, most children I’m like, I’m I’m I’m okay.

[00:33:30] Jesse: So I was like, oh, this is like, go starting off the wrong way a little bit. Oh. But then I was like, okay, like I understand. You need to be, you know, like you have to come in with like compassion and empathy for yourself before kind of to what you’re saying before, you can really exude it to other people, things or projects or whatever.

[00:33:50] Jesse: So, yeah, I think that’s, that’s like one of the most difficult things I feel like is to just like, Not let all of these, and what we’re discussing is not let all of these external things kind of tarnish your own self peace, your empathy for yourself, your love for yourself, because that’s when you start to like, lose that for other things external to you.

[00:34:15] Jesse: Yes. Yeah.

[00:34:17] Angela: Well, I think the takeaway we’re taking from all of this is investing yourself and self love, self care, and where you feel drawn to help with something, do it to the extent that you feel like you can mm-hmm and. But keeping yourself, you know, mentally stable, stable. Yes. Yeah. Um, and with that, I think we should go to the close to end on a happier, a sweet treat time.

[00:34:50] Angela: Yes. Fortune cookies, sweet treat. Um, I think. We wanted to each share one heartwarming story that we found on the internet. Since, as we said, it can be this weird bombardment of like lots of horrible things, but also some good things as well. Some nicer sides of humanity. mm-hmm um, I have one in mind. Do you have one?

[00:35:16] Jesse: Uh, I do. It’s not necessarily a story, but yeah, I can. Yeah. So my friend sent me this TikTok because this is a friend that I went to watch everything everywhere all at once with. And the TikTok is just like a bunch of people toing like a review of the movie. And it starts off with that clip of Michelle, yo like crying from the GQ interview.

[00:35:36] Jesse: Cuz she’s like, this is finally my chance. Like first of all, that clip is so moving. I’m like work bitch. Oh my God. Seriously? Yes. I’m here for it. And then just like. it was so great to see other then the, the, the reviewers who were in the TikTok were not Asian. So there, I think there was, um, a black lady, a couple white guys, and it’s just so it’s like a very, just so feeling like some feeling, some positive feeling to see other people vibe to.

[00:36:04] Jesse: This movie and feel like they have had some part, like they have some parts that like shared experience that we got in the theater and it makes me feel good because it just makes you feel like you’re more connected to other people that you shared this kind of thing with them a hundred

percent.

[00:36:21] Angela: Yeah, not my story, but I will pile on that.

[00:36:24] Angela: Um, our review of the movie on YouTube is. Still going. I think we’re getting recommended because people are seeking out. uh,

[00:36:36] Jesse: I’m gonna go wa I’m gonna go watch it again this weekend, probably. So it’s

[00:36:39] Angela: so good. Yeah. Uh, but yeah, we’ve been getting comments too. And, um, I think only few of them are Asian. Like a lot of the people commenting are just like other non-Asian people and they’re like, love they’re into it that we ever, blah, blah, blah.

[00:36:51] Angela: Yeah. I was like, yes. Um, Awesome. Great. Um, my story that I saw is also TikTok, cuz that’s where all the stories happen now. Um, there’s this creator that I’ve been following for a long time, re Cho he’s like really big as well, but he. like, I’m pretty sure he is like full-time creator, um, and makes enough money to like sustain his life because there was this video that I saw and I think I sent it to you is, um, I guess he made friends with like a homeless woman a while ago, maybe like a year ago and has been working with her to help.

[00:37:31] Angela: You know, improve her life. And he made this TikTok where he was like, because of your guys’ kind donations, we got her an apartment and we got her a lease and now she’s off the streets and she has her own space now. And it was like the most heartwarming thing to see, cuz I was like, wow. In the midst of like all this like randomness on TikTok, this guy is like using it for good and.

[00:37:57] Angela: I don’t know when he raised money from his audience, but I guess it happened a while ago, um, so that he could use that towards helping this woman. But I was like, it’s, it’s one of those things where it’s like a small, tangible thing, right? It’s like you can’t solve all homelessness. That’s like a very difficult and daunting task to try to like tackle, especially as like an individual person.

[00:38:20] Angela: to see that he reached out to like one specific woman that like, he must have had, you know, a calling within him. Like I need to help this woman. Right? Like of all things I could be doing right now, and like established a relationship with her and kept up with her and, and actually helped her out of her situation.

[00:38:39] Angela: It was just like, wow. TikTok is not just all random cab videos and whatever videos it can be like used in a really. Really positive way. So, yeah, I I’m really inspired by, by that kind of, that kind of aid, because it also feels more tangible and also more kind of like, I don’t know, it, it. Because I feel like, because I’m moving us into more of this like creator space, right?

[00:39:12] Angela: Like a lot of times it can feel really meaningless, honestly. Mm-hmm, like, it’s this weird kind of juggle, right? It’s like, I’m putting a lot of effort into this and like, we do get good feedback from people, but a lot of times I feel like, oh, so all I do is like, be on social media now. Like it just feels a lot of me feels like I’m wasting my life away.

[00:39:31] Angela: So when I see that someone else who. Also pursuing like, just life on social media, essentially as like a career and seeing that they can not only sustain themselves, but also help really help other people. Mm it’s like, okay, this is not just dumb shit. Yeah. Like it can make an impact.

[00:39:54] Jesse: Awesome. Yes. And I do remember you sending me that it was a very.

[00:39:58] Jesse: Moving to shock. Yes. All right. Well, listeners, I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. I know we meandered a little bit. Mm-hmm but I think we opened with the question and we were able to come to an answer at the end. So. Let us know. Did you like the answer we can to a conclusion? Um, two, do you have more questions?

[00:40:21] Jesse: Do you have more thoughts? If you have any of these things, feel free to write us in at tell us where you’re from@gmail.com or hit us on hit us up. Oh my God. On any of the socials.

[00:40:34] Angela: And if you have other advice for setting boundaries, we’ll take those

[00:40:37] Jesse: two. Oh my God. Or dealing with just like the every day.

[00:40:41] Jesse: Oh God. Yes. Truly.

[00:40:42] Angela: Yes. Yeah. Um, yeah. And come back next week, cuz we’ll have another fresh episode for you then. And I should be in Asia by then as well. Woo. Uh, yeah. So until then,

Note: Transcript fully created by automated AI

[00:00:00] Jesse: Hi everyone. I’m Jesse Lin.

[00:00:02] Angela: And I’m Angela Lin. And welcome back to another episode of, but where are you really from today instead of me in the hot seat, we’ve put Jesse in the hot seat. This time we are talking about open relationships. murmur. Yes. Um, this is kind of like a continuation of a series of topics that we’ve been covering on the show.

[00:00:26] Angela: We’ve kind of like delved into many D. Aspects of dating relationships, intimacy, and how that’s played into our own lives, how we kinda operate trauma. We have challenges we still deal with in that respect. So this was like another facet that we wanted to talk about because it does impact one of us at least, which is why Jesse’s in hot seat.

[00:00:51] Angela: oh, um, so I think this topic is super interesting for a lot of people because. A lot of people don’t really know much about what an open relationship really means. Like why people would be in an open relationship, how it actually operates. And by people, I mean, me, I also don’t know how any of that shit works, which is why I’ll be asking the questions today.

[00:01:15] Angela: Um, and I think just to start it off, I would like to ask you how you define an open relationship and what made you wanna be in an open relat.

[00:01:28] Jesse: Um, so an open relat, I feel like a lot of people think an open relationship is exactly what it sounds like, which is just like you have a primary partner, but your relation to that person has no rules.

[00:01:43] Jesse: Meaning like you can go outside of that partner for sex, for emotional needs, for comfort, whatever, and your partner has the same kind of freedom. And that can be what it is for some people, but actually. I looked into this a lot when I first embarked on this open relationship journey, because I know naturally I’m a very jealous person for various reasons, like past issues and whatever.

[00:02:09] Jesse: And so I was like open relationship. Like this is not for me. Like I will die of like emotional pain so I started, first of all, I started reading this really old book called the velvet. um, it’s written by this psychotherapist, I think, or hypnotherapist. He might do both of things based off of his work with queer men or gay men over, uh, a number of years.

[00:02:35] Jesse: And it. Like I wanted to see the two sides, basically this, this book, the kind of conclusion is that gay men have this kind of extended adolescence where you have these open and like fun relationship structures to accommodate, um, or to offset those years where you were not able to have that. And also like to offset.

[00:02:59] Jesse: Areas of emotional development that you didn’t really get. So I was kind of trying to see like, okay, on, on one hand you have this, where at the end, he kind of proposes that the most stable relationship is like one where you have one in one partner and you, you satisfy each other’s needs and urges and whatever.

[00:03:15] Jesse: And then on the other hand, I read this book called the ethical slut, which is basically talking about how open relationships work and like what kinds of. methods and ways you can use to navigate that. And as I looked into it, I was like, both of these things make sense, but I actually felt like the ethical slut one made a lot more sense to me because in the open relationship that I have with my partner and my, myself, we have like a document, like a Google document.

[00:03:45] Jesse: And it’s basically like, what do I want out of this open relationship? So like, Here are like our primary drivers of why we want the open relationship here are like the hard line. Like these are the things that we need to respect about each other and like things I like things I don’t like, um, about our relationship.

[00:04:03] Jesse: And so actually being in an open relationship. I, this is like the most intentional relationship I’ve ever been in where I laid down with my partner. Like, Hey, here are the things that really hurt my feelings. These are the things that I really love about our relationship. And we have like a, a quorum and understanding of each other’s needs and wants.

[00:04:26] Jesse: Um, not only as it relates to how we explore. Relationships outside our private relationship, but also how we explore our own relationship. And so I found that to be really, really just a completely different experience, right. Because I think like with my prior relationships, there was just a lot of assumptions happening in the background and it kind of.

[00:04:49] Jesse: I, I do get it a little bit frustrated because there are some things where you’re like, well, that’s not assumption. That’s just like a given. But then when I think about it, I’m like, well, is it like, maybe it makes sense for me, but maybe it doesn’t make sense for the other person. And so like having that discussion opens up a really kind of a better understanding between you and your partner of like where you are, where your perspectives are for a specific type of need.

[00:05:15] Jesse: Um, So, yeah, that’s kind of how I came to this. And, um, it’s been interesting so far. Did I answer the question? Uh,

[00:05:26] Angela: yeah, most of it, but I’ll circle back. Hold on. First of all, like I’m already like, should I consider? No, no, but I like, based on what you’re talking about, I’m already like, A lot, like you said, I think most people who don’t know anything about it do think it’s literally what it sounds like with the word is like free for all, but based on the way that you just described it as like, wow, you, you really are like, it almost sounds like a more mature way to approach a relationship in that you are forced to be very explicit with your needs, your boundaries and like what that means with each other and how.

[00:06:06] Angela: Like interact with each other. And to your point, most of the time in like regular relationships, we don’t define those things like as explicitly. So I think that is like, miscommunication is like in any relationship, often the cause of problems in relationships, because there are assumptions made and then feelings hurt because blah, blah.

[00:06:32] Angela: so I already, like, first of all, yeah, just wanted to put out there, like I’m already very intrigued and very, like, have more respect towards this whole like ideology just by the way that you’ve described how you’ve like laid it out for yourself. Um, so yes, you inserted first part of like how you , how you define it, I guess.

[00:06:55] Angela: Uh, want to. If, if you’re comfortable sharing, like which aspects are you like, have you guys defined is the like open part and which aspects aren’t. And also like, I guess my question, my other question is kind of like, is this your first open relationship? And if so, if not either way, like, why were you first open to the idea of this?

[00:07:22] Angela: I know you said. Looked into it more with those two books, but like, why were you first? actually, I might want to

[00:07:29] Jesse: explore this. Okay. So the first one, like what parts of the relationship are actually open? I mean, it’s mostly just that we are able to hang out with other people and if we want to choose to have sex with them, um, but.

[00:07:45] Jesse: I think the way that the way that our relationship agreement is constructed. And I don’t think you have to be in a relationship agreement to construct one of these, it’s basically like a roommate agreement that you do in college where you’re just like, here am I like must have kind of situation, but it can be like a little bit more than that because the documents kind of like.

[00:08:03] Jesse: Open, right? Like you, you can’t really write out every single little, little thing, and that’s not the spirit of it. Right. So if, if you’re, if you’re doing this kind of exercise and your partner is trying to find ways to violate what makes you feel comfortable? It’s just not gonna work. Like you have to have some like mutual respect because you cannot write out like every single thing that you don’t or do feel comfortable about.

[00:08:28] Jesse: So basically like the way. Um, our document is structured is like, this is our open relationship. What do we want out of it? So for me, it’s that, like, I finally feel like I’m at full power, right? And I wanna like use that power to have sex with other people feel attractive, like really lead into that. And as part of that first, first of all, I want to acknowledge and high.

[00:08:53] Jesse: What I really like about our primary relationship, like here are the things that I really love about us, that I think that I do really well for you. You do really well for me here are the things like specifically I want to do in the open relationship, like the top kind of things, and then like kind of a list of behaviors or activities that will make me feel secure when, when I’m in a.

[00:09:13] Jesse: Like in a engagement with someone let’s say, so I would write something. That’s like, okay, like if you’re gonna go, if you’re gonna ha if you’re gonna hang out with someone, you’re gonna hook up with them, shoot me a text before, let me know, shoot me a text when you’re done. Let me know. Like, those are just like, those are the key things I kind of already know about myself.

[00:09:29] Jesse: That would make me feel a lot more comfortable about what’s going on. And it’s just all detailed in there. Um, your second question. Which is, is it my first open relationship? And how did I come to the conclusion of doing this? Got it. How did you come to

[00:09:46] Angela: the conclusion that you wanted, how I wanted it or that you were even open to it, especially cuz you said that thing about like, you know, yourself, that you’re a jealous person.

[00:09:55] Angela: So like how did you make that leap of like I’m naturally jealous, but I’m also. Interested and open to exploring an open relationship.

[00:10:07] Jesse: Yes. So I’ve been in three total serious relationships, and I would say all three of them have been open in some respects, meaning that like, it was not fully monogamous when it comes to sex.

[00:10:21] Jesse: And it’s because the first one, it was like long distance. So it was kind of. I’m not gonna be a nun for like a year or like months. Um, the second one was kind of like open in the sense that people will be brought into the primary relationship, but we, you know, not NEC not necessarily we’re going, um, off one, one on one with other people.

[00:10:42] Jesse: And then this one is kind of like more open. Like we have the freedom to do that, or we can bring another person who’s relationship. It’s kind of, um, Whatever, whatever we both feel will be fun and interesting for the other person. And for the relationship overall, how did I come to this conclusion? I mean, after my last breakup, which was not really good, I really tried to think about like, basically think more intentionally about my relationships, because after that one ended, I was like, oh my God.

[00:11:13] Jesse: I was like sleepwalking for the past couple of years. Like I just felt like I was. There, because this was what I thought it should be versus like, is this really what I wanted? And the more I thought about it, I was like, well, could I really be satisfied with one person sexually for the rest of my life? I mean, like the reality is like, I think my current partner is really sexy, like super sexy, but do I look at other people?

[00:11:41] Jesse: I’m like, yeah, if there’s someone really cute, I’m like, damn, that person’s really cute. Yeah, of course. Um, so it’s like, it’s I, you can’t shut that down. So like there’s always this natural inclination that you’re interested in the person. And so for me, I was just like, well, like. I just don’t think it is realistic to deny yourself of this for the rest of your life.

[00:12:03] Jesse: Let’s say, let’s imagine you got married at like 25 or something like that. Or 20 even that’s like, you’re getting married at the first 20% of your life and the remaining 80% of your life, you are sealed with this person. And for some people that’s fine. That’s totally cool. But for me, I was like, I feel like I would get bored.

[00:12:21] Jesse: It would cause strains on the primary relationship. And I don’t, um, it just like, it logically didn’t make sense to me. Like I, like, I like eating, I don’t know, bubble tea, but I don’t like eating bubble tea every day for the rest of my life. Like I would be so fucking bored and like sick of it. So I think actually that was kind of where it started, where I was like, okay, I don’t know if I could just B be enjoying one person for the rest of my life.

[00:12:48] Jesse: And then I tried to, I, I started doing the reading to try to understand like, okay, what are the resources available to me so that I can better understand what are the different kinds of relationship structures? Um, In play and how people, uh, operate themselves in them. And the interesting thing about both of the books is that they highlight various different types of relationship structures, including the ethical SL, which talks, uh, actually a great deal about monogamy because monogamy is a hundred percent valid, um, relationship structure.

[00:13:19] Jesse: Like they’re not in the book, they don’t shit on monogamy at all. They’re like, this is a very difficult relationship structure off for obvious reasons, but. It’s a valid one. Um, so that’s kind of where I started, went to the books, reading to try to figure out if I could be comfortable in it, because I wasn’t sure at that point.

[00:13:36] Jesse: And then we have the discussion around this, um, this document and like wrote it all down and then we just tried it. Um, and I would say like the second reason is that I, um, because I know that I’m naturally jealous person. I was like, I don’t like this about myself. And I feel like if I put myself in an environment where I can confront it, And realize that that jealousy is me being afraid of something that may or may not happen.

[00:14:05] Jesse: And being able to reinforce that the negative thing won’t happen, which is that the relationship will not work out, will reduce the kind of jealousy that I have. And so I was like, for me, this is also a really great way to work on this like thing about myself that I don’t necessarily really like, because I have plenty of friends who are.

[00:14:24] Jesse: In open relationships and they’re like, yeah, I don’t, I’m not jealous at all. And I’m like, how? Like, I wanna be that person. Like, I want to be that person where, when my partners are like, you know, going to sleep with someone really hot, I’m like, you go girl, like go get it. Because there is some aspect of that where I’m like, that’s kind of hot, it’s hot that you’re interested in someone else.

[00:14:42] Jesse: And it’s hot that you can like get them. Yeah, those are the things okay. Let’s

[00:14:47] Angela: delve into the jealousy piece more because this is something that obviously like me thinking about this, even as a remote possibility is like the, my biggest hindrance as well. Um, I guess. I, you mentioned you have little things like text me before, text me after just like the knowledge of the thing having happened helps you with the jealousy.

[00:15:11] Angela: I think for me, my biggest qualm is like the sex part is one thing, but I’m more scared that sex can lead to feelings. And for me, the emotional side would be much more. Destructive to like my wellbeing and our relationship than, uh, just like a purely physical one. So how do you, how do you guys navigate that?

[00:15:40] Angela: The emotional aspect, I guess like potential emotional aspect. And then also, how do you personally navigate that as like controlling your jealousy to. Spiral or like whatever, as it pertains to potential feeling development. Oh

[00:15:56] Jesse: yeah. Okay. So let me just say, first of all, I still feel jealous a lot of the times and like the jealousy sometimes is crippling, but I already knew that going into it.

[00:16:05] Jesse: That that’s what would happen. Um, from my partner’s perspective, it’s quite easy for him. He’s like, I’m not jealous. He’s like, I’m not really, he’s like a little bit jealous of things. I’m not really jealous, like, and he also says that he has a good, um, He has a good head for separating like sex and intimacy, like feelings.

[00:16:25] Jesse: So I’m like, okay, like I trust you on that. Like, because, and I can’t cut your head open and see if you’re telling me the truth. I’m just gonna trust you on that. For me, it’s the same kind of thing. So actually there are a few things that I put into our agreement, specific things that I was like, this will make me feel a little bit better because these kinds of activities veer into that like intimacy zone, right.

[00:16:46] Jesse: I put things that’s like, I would really prefer if you didn’t have pillow talk with anybody. Right. Cause that’s like a really intimate thing that I would prefer doing with you. Um, I would prefer that you don’t do sleepovers with anyone because that’s also, like for me, that’s kind of a little bit more intimate.

[00:17:01] Jesse: Like it could lead to pillow talk and like other stuff that is kind of veering into the feelings territory. But I, that’s kind of like, for me, like, those are the things that are like the trigger things that I know will be like, Ooh, are we mad about that? Um, and then like the rest of it is I thought about it.

[00:17:20] Jesse: I’m like, would I really be mad about these kinds of things? Because a, like this one time he, he went to, he went to hook up with somebody and it was just like life living on. They mostly just like watched TV together. And I was like, oh, is this intimacy. But then I was like, this is kinda what you would do with like any other friend, but you’re just kind of like at the end of it or during it, you maybe like fooling around a little bit.

[00:17:44] Jesse: So when I was thinking about it that way, I was like, it’s less threatening to me because the behavior is not really any different than it would be with anybody else that he’s just plat. Sexually in a relationship with, um, and I think that like sex part of it really like mm, gives you like the jelly bellies for sure.

[00:18:06] Jesse: Um, so I have to like really think about is this is whatever he’s doing with this person, really that abnormal, where it’s like a intimate thing that is not shared with anybody else. It’s just with that person. And if it’s not, then. I can still feel jealous. Like my, my feelings are valid, but is there the risk there to the relationship?

[00:18:29] Jesse: Not really, like if there’s no more risk than, than would be, he would fall for any other friend that he knows. Right. Because it’s just, you know, it’s not any special activity. So that’s kind of just how I generally think about it. And also I don’t hide my feelings. Like if I’m jealous about something, I will try to respectfully communicate like, Hey, um, You told me this thing, I didn’t feel really great about it.

[00:18:55] Jesse: And this is why, and we’ll have tried to have as adult conversation as we can about it. So I do think that, um, those things together help navigate, um, the jealousy a little bit better.

[00:19:12] Angela: Hey listeners, wondering how you can support us. The biggest way is by increasing our visibility by following us on Instagram at where are you from pod on TikTok at, but where are you really from subscribing to our YouTube channel under, but where are you really from podcast rating and reviewing us on apple podcasts and telling your friends the more people we can get to listen to the show, the more we can continue spotlighting different perspectives and stories.

[00:19:34] Angela: And if you feel so inclined, we’re also accepting donations@buymeacoffee.com slash where are you from? Thanks. Y’all okay. Two follow up questions, obviously. I’m so inquisitive on this. Um, one is, do you have anything around multiple. Times with the same person, because that’s something I would be like, kind of jealous about and be afraid that that could develop into something is like, if you’re constantly hitting up like the same person, it just like, even if you don’t mean to could turn into something else.

[00:20:12] Angela: So I’ll

[00:20:12] Jesse: let you, that’s a great question. You’re excellent questions. so this is also kind of a, a sticking point for me because I. Was in a long term relationship for a really long time. So I don’t have a lot of people that I used to hook up with. And, um, my partner does, so he knows a lot of people who are kind of like repeats, as you say, And, um, originally when we were talking about it, I think we did discuss, like, how do we feel about repeats and like what the situation is, but I keep thinking about it.

[00:20:44] Jesse: Like I just frame it the way that I think about the whole friends thing. Like, I also know some of his friends that he’s been friends with a while, so I’m like, okay, like is what he is, what he’s doing with this person. Any different from what he’s doing with, um, any of his other long term friends. And also like, if it’s really, if it’s literally just a hookup, like, you know, he’s going there to literally just get banged by somebody and then leave.

[00:21:13] Jesse: I don’t feel threatened at all because there’s. You might be a little stigmatized, but like there’s no chance of like intimacy developing, at least for me. Like, I don’t think that just sleeping with the same person over and over again will develop intimacy. Like it’s just sex. And the other thing is that once I started exercising my part of the open relationship, like sleeping with other people and I started sleeping with the same people.

[00:21:40] Jesse: I was like, yeah, this is not threatening. Like cuz I came into. This relationship with this other person, with the intention of, you know, maybe making friends with them, having sex with them and that’s it. And because those were my intentions, like I have that rule with them. And so having that personal experience made me more comfortable because I was like, okay, cool.

[00:22:02] Jesse: Like, I understand that it’s not happening for me where I’m like falling for someone, you know, that I’m sleeping with multiple times. So it’s also possible that that’s not happening for my partner. Okay.

[00:22:15] Angela: That is exactly leading into my second question, which is more on you and you kind of curbing your own potential emotional development.

[00:22:25] Angela: So, because you’ve set these like, Intentions for yourself with any interaction you’ve found that you are able to keep yourself from like randomly developing feelings, because I hear what you’re saying about like, theoretically, just banging someone and leaving. Doesn’t lead to feelings necessarily, but we’ve also discussed in the past that like, we’ve both confused, like sexual encounters and like lust for somebody as like a way of getting validation about your worth and like confusing it for potential love or emotion.

[00:23:05] Angela: Right. So like you’ve actually successfully drawn that line. And if you have like, How do you see that you’ve been able to do that knowing our history that we’ve discussed of like making those confusions in the past?

[00:23:18] Jesse: Yeah. So, I mean, that’s always gonna be a really tricky thing because feelings are feelings.

[00:23:23] Jesse: You can’t control them. Um, I will say that. I think we’ve discussed this before in the past. I believe that you have the possibility of many, many, if you wanna call it soulmates, but many, many compatible people in the world to be your partner. And so when it comes down to it, let’s say for example, you have a hundred compatible people and they’re all equally compatible.

[00:23:44] Jesse: What’s your decision to stay with any one person. It’s just that it’s a decision. You’re like, oh, I’ve committed to being with you. I like being with you and I’ll stay with you. that’s it. That’s the only thing holding your relationship together. It’s not like magic. It’s not a, unless you’re married, you don’t have a binding contract.

[00:24:00] Jesse: Like all that’s keeping you together is your decision to stay together. Um, and so with that in mind. Yeah, sure. Like I think there are certain situations where, when I run into someone really interesting or really cute, I still developed kinda like crushes. So like recently when we were in LA. There was this really cute guy.

[00:24:21] Jesse: We went out, we hooked up, I think I have like a mild crush on him, but that doesn’t mean that I’m gonna change anything about my primary relationship. This doesn’t change my feelings towards my partner. There’s additive feelings for this other person, but that doesn’t somehow diminish how I feel towards my primary partner.

[00:24:39] Jesse: And it also doesn’t change my decision to be committed to him if that makes sense. So I think there’s a huge. People are scared because there’s this risk that you’ll lose the person that you love, because there’s a hundred other people that could just be perfect for, for them. But the thing is that comes down to a decision, right?

[00:25:00] Jesse: So like you can’t control one, another person decides or doesn’t decide. So at the end of the day, for me, I’m like, I might as well enjoy all of these different avenues for my feelings to go because I can’t control at the end of the day. If John wants to be with someone else that’s equally compatible. I can’t be like, no, I he’s his own person.

[00:25:22] Jesse: And same here. Like he can’t do that to me. So I feel comfortable in it because I’ve made this commitment to him. And I don’t think that I plan on changing it. Um, so that’s kind of how I think about it when these other like feelings or crushes or interests in other arise.

[00:25:42] Angela: Yeah, I guess that makes a lot of sense for me.

[00:25:45] Angela: Just everything you said makes 1000000% chance, uh, I mean, fuck, what am I saying? 1000000% sense. Makes sense. Sense. Makes sense. But for me, It’s basically you’re right in that, like, you literally can’t control anyone but yourself. Right? Like even if you’ve made a, what you called, one of the, like, buying, doing culture, like marriage or whatever, right?

[00:26:10] Angela: Like that’s why divorce exist. You know, like people, there are still ways out because you literally cannot enslave a person into like, doing everything that you want. Mm-hmm I guess the. Fear that I have. And I I’m guessing many people have is like, you can’t control. If you are bound partner, like your married partner or whatever, develops feelings for somebody else outside of your relationship.

[00:26:36] Angela: But if you’ve kept the relationship closed, theoretically, you’re minimizing the number of chances that they have to have developed those feelings because the people that they meet to. Potential with are fewer than if you said it’s open and then they’re, you know, like potentially every week they might be needing somebody for.

[00:27:02] Angela: You know, the agreed upon yeah. Open activities. Yeah. And you’re just like increasing the number of encounters is what I like. That’s my fear, I guess.

[00:27:11] Jesse: I understand. Yeah. I mean, it is, it’s a risk. It is a, on, it is a risk of being in an open relationship, but kind of ask yourself that question. Like, at least for me, I’m like, okay.

[00:27:23] Jesse: So if I open the relationship. and if my partner left anyways, how strong was my relationship to begin with? Like, so. You’re closing it. You’re, you’re eliminating the opportunities that the person will stray outside of the relationship, but that doesn’t, you’re missing like that. There might be a primary need that your partner has that’s unexpressed and you’ll never know because they’ll never, it’s your relationship’s not open.

[00:27:55] Jesse: They’ll never explore it. Of course. Also, I’m gonna retract that. You might know if you’re, if you have a really tight relationship and everyone is being, you know, very forthcoming with like what they want and like what their needs are. Then there is no need to go outside the relationship. Sometimes people are looking for something that the primary partner cannot provide, or they’re just looking for something interesting, which is different.

[00:28:19] Jesse: Um, and I guess for me, it makes more sense to give my partner that freedom to do that because I kind of want the same. Um, and so it wouldn’t be fair for me to say like, oh, only I can do that versus like, you cannot do that. Then it’s like kind of lopsided, but it, it reflects the need that I also have. So I have.

[00:28:40] Jesse: Be fair and give the same freedom to the other partner.

[00:28:43] Angela: Right. Okay. That makes sense. Um, follow up question is now kind of on a different angle is with the people that you or your partner decide to have. Encounters with, how do you, you basically just like, are upfront that you’re in a, you’re already in an existing committed relationship and like, this is, these are ground rules or like how, or do you just like, whatever, like unspoken that like I’m gonna, I’m coming here for a hookup as we’ve discussed mm-hmm and then I choose to leave before any such pillow talk or whatever could happen so that I obey my own rules.

[00:29:21] Angela: Or do you actually like explicitly. Lay out some things with this person.

[00:29:27] Jesse: Um, I don’t usually, like, I don’t see the need to do that. Like I don’t see why it’s that person’s business, particularly if I didn’t say like, if it’s not a date, you know, like it, it’s not like it’s not information that I necessarily see as pertinent to having sex with somebody because.

[00:29:48] Jesse: I’m not, I don’t feel like I’m misleading them in any way. Like I’m not being like, we’re, you know, this is the date, or I have romantic interest in you. Like, I’m always very clear with people like, like, come on over, let’s hook up, hang out. That’s it. Um, if people ask that’s for sure, like, I will tell them like, Hey, I have, you know, I have a boyfriend we’ve been to, so blah, blah, blah, blah, open relationship, relationship, yada, yada.

[00:30:10] Jesse: And if they wanna know more about like, what that looks like, yeah. I’ll take the time to explain it to them, but I don’t think it’s necessary to. Tell a person that you’re in an open relationship, um, unless you somehow like your lead in, into that encounter is somehow misleading the person into thinking that you might be available in some manner that is not okay within the rules of your

[00:30:34] Angela: relationship.

[00:30:36] Angela: okay. So you are only upfront about like sex only, essentially hookup only, but then there’s no, unless there’s like additional prodding from their end, there was no like additional context given

[00:30:49] Jesse: usually. Yeah, I don’t think so. I mean, like what’s it to, what’s it to random person that I’m sleeping with that I’m in

[00:30:56] Angela: an open relationship.

[00:30:57] Angela: Well, yeah, I guess this is a like question I have of like, whether there might be a difference between. Queer relationships and like heterosexual, heteronormative, whatever the like PCE phrase is, that’s straight the straights. Exactly. Because I feel like. I mean, obviously Grindr exists because it originally started right.

[00:31:23] Angela: For, to enable hookups and it has developed people use it for many different reasons now, but like, no girl, it’s still for . Okay. Yeah. So we don’t. But that’s the thing like for straight people, we don’t have just a like, just for sex app, like you can argue that Tinder is like unspoken more the like hookup app than other dating apps, but there is no, like, literally we all agree if you own this app and you’re on it, you’re there just for sex kind of thing.

[00:31:52] Angela: So when I think about like, what would this look like for my relationship? I’m just like, I have all these like concerns and like, because people do hook up on like a first encounter or whatever, when you are in a like dating environment. And that doesn’t mean they’re excluding the potential for like, feelings to develop.

[00:32:16] Angela: So I guess for me, I’m just. I, I wouldn’t feel secure with like, because there is no like UN like known thing of like, this is just sex. We all know this is just for sex kind of thing.

[00:32:28] Jesse: Okay. Okay. Super fair. Um, so I will say in my grinder profile, I do have a written that I have an open relationship. So like, You know, literacy is pretty low here, but if anyone opened it up and actually like looked at it, they would, they would know.

[00:32:43] Jesse: So I’m not, again, I’m like not hiding anything at all. Like I’m super upfront if people want to know, but I also don’t feel like it’s relevant in, I do not believe that the straights do not have a sex app. There are maybe none of us

[00:33:00] Angela: talk about it.

[00:33:02] Jesse: I mean, mean might be like a, you know, small thing, but, um, I also feel like that could be, I don’t know, it could be a way, like when you’re on an app to just put it in a profile, be like open relationship, but I kind of understand what you’re saying is that like, because you’re on like Bumble or hinge, whatever mm-hmm, there’s this maybe that you might.

[00:33:23] Jesse: In a dating kind of situation. Mm-hmm um, and that’s where I would say it’s on whoever whoever’s in the open relationship to kind of make it clear in the profile. Like, Hey, I’m in a committed relationship, but I’m looking for fun with someone else. So you’re not misleading anyone mm-hmm yeah.

[00:33:39] Angela: Okay. I have a question about, I think you’ve mentioned like either in the past or your current relationship, there have been times where you both, as a couple, decide to invite a person into.

[00:33:52] Angela: Both of your dynamics and like, how is that usually decided? No. Do you know what I’m asking? And you

[00:34:01] Jesse: threesome . Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. I was like, like the same person, but like different, different times. You could. Interesting question. Interesting. No, yeah. What do you mean? Like,

[00:34:17] Angela: well, Yeah. Is it like, because I think you’ve mentioned in the past, like you’re out with each other and then you like meet a bunch of people and then like, someone is interesting to both of you or whatever.

[00:34:30] Angela: And then you decide to like all go home that night or whatever Uhhuh. Yeah. Like, has it been just like fair game, like BOS of you have asked the other person, like, Hey, would you be open to this? Yes. Together. Okay. Yeah. You’ve both initiated that on. encounters or whatever.

[00:34:49] Jesse: Yeah. So what, so, I mean, I think if your question is like, if we’ve ever been out together and then one of us just goes to some random person, like, do you wanna have three with us without consulting the other person?

[00:34:58] Jesse: That’s not how it no, no.

[00:35:00] Angela: okay. No, no, no. I mean like when you’re both out and you’re both. Like, or one of you is like, oh, this I like this person. And it could be interesting for us to have like all three of us have an activity tonight. Has it been both of you at different points to be like, Hey Jesse, or Hey partner, like, I think this could be fun.

[00:35:22] Angela: Like what do you think? Or is it mostly like, one of you is like

[00:35:25] Jesse: more, oh, um, No, I think we’re generally, I think we’re generally in sync because what we want out of the open relationship is basically kind of the same, which is like sex with different people outside of the, the two of us. But also like we have pretty good overlap.

[00:35:44] Jesse: Like there are some people that my partner’s interested in that I’m like not, and also vice versa, but I think that we have a good overlap of like, if he picks someone up, he’s like, yeah. Are you, are you interested in this person? I’m like, yeah, I think they’re pretty cute. Let’s do it. And I feel like both of us have, um, action on that before.

[00:36:02] Jesse: And generally we don’t bring strangers. It’s kind of strangers as a bad term, but like we don’t bring someone that’s like completely that we just met. usually like it’s usually someone that we at least have like somewhat, um, we know them a little bit, like either interesting met them at some place before, or at least we’ve seen them around.

[00:36:22] Jesse: Um, so that both of us kind of have like an equal knowledge of this person, if that makes sense.

[00:36:31] Angela: Yeah. Okay. And the like, because I know when it’s separate. Encounters, you know, when someone is like, I’ve meet, I’m meeting this person, I’m done meeting this person, but you’re not seeing it obviously. So when you are in a shared experience of seeing the, you know, your partner with a different person does not evoke jealousy in you at

[00:36:57] Jesse: all, um, that’s a good question.

[00:37:00] Jesse: I’m trying to think. I will say the last few times we’ve done. We were pretty high. So I, but I, I will say like, I’m like, I’m never so blitz that I can’t feel my emotions. So when I’m not feeling good, even when I’m really high, I’m like, Ooh, I don’t like this. And I want to say that I didn’t, I don’t really feel that.

[00:37:22] Jesse: In fact, the last time we did it, I was like, this is fucking hot. Like or please. Um, I, and, uh, when you’re, when you’re separate, let’s. it kind of depends on what makes you feel comfortable. So for me, I was like, I feel the most comfortable if I can feel included. Like when you’re doing that, when you’re off with someone else by yourself, it’s kind of, you’re not, you don’t, you’re not intentionally excluding the person, but the person is, your partner is not there.

[00:37:50] Jesse: So I was like, if you feel comfortable when the person agrees, like take a photo, take a video, like at least so I can see what’s happening. And that makes me feel like I didn’t miss it. Like I was still there. And so we kind of do that as a way to. Um, make it so like, even though we’re off doing our individual activities, like the other person can still kind of enjoy it in some way, shape or form.

[00:38:13] Jesse: Of course. Like some other people are like, I don’t wanna know about that at all. Like, some people are like, I don’t wanna hear about what you’re doing. Like, I don’t really care. Like don’t tell me. And that’s perfectly valid. It just really depends on what each person feels comfortable doing. Yeah. Makes

[00:38:28] Angela: sense.

[00:38:29] Angela: Yeah, I, again, I’m gonna go back to like, where I’m like, uh, I can’t make that jump for myself, which is like, because I don’t know if it’s as frequent of a thing in straight couples as in gay couples. I, I don’t know. I don’t know any stats around it, but it just like, I don’t, none of my friends have like, or very few of my friends have expressed.

[00:38:56] Angela: Being in one, or like being interested in exploring one, et cetera. And for me, I’m also thinking about like in the future near future, right. We wanna start like a family, like bring kids into the mix and I just like cannot picture explaining. To to family or like, I don’t know what, like a parent or like a, someone a peer sees us on an app or whatever.

[00:39:26] Angela: And then like we have kids and they have to, like, they ask us and, or like our kid finds out or whatever, and like how to explain that. And I just, like, I would not know. To, to handle that conversation.

[00:39:39] Jesse: So what I will say about the relationships, I feel like it’s very much environment self-enforcing because there are so many monogamous relationships in, but not all straits are monogamous, like Mormon.

[00:39:52] Jesse: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Poly. But it just like, because of the majority of the people are in this relationship structure, a you may not even. It may not even be in your head that there’s another kind of relationship structure for you and B it doesn’t leave room to make you feel comfortable that you can explore, right.

[00:40:10] Jesse: If all of your friends are in like a committed, married relationship, you’re like, well, maybe this is just what’s for me. Like, I don’t need to, like, why do I, it doesn’t feel comfortable versus like in gay world, I’m like, Jesus, is there anybody in a monogamous relationship? like, everybody’s in open relationship.

[00:40:26] Jesse: So like, I do feel like there is a lot of that. Kind of like your environment and the kind of relationships that you’re exposed to can give you the freedom and comfort to say like, Hey, maybe I do feel comfortable, like at least exploring this versus not. Um, when it comes to like furthering your family, there’s actually a really interesting section in, um, the ethical sled that specifically talks about this because it is a very.

[00:40:57] Jesse: Difficult thing for you to explain, especially let’s say to your parents or to like other parents, why there may be multiple parent figures. Um, if you’re interested in, in it, I would read that. I think that does a much better job in explaining like the ins and outs of it. Um, but at the end of the day, like it’s really nobody else’s business, but your own, like you can tell people about it.

[00:41:24] Jesse: but it’s not their bus. Like you, it, and, and if you’re not sleeping with the person, you don’t have a relationship with the person. Like it’s none of their business. Like,

[00:41:32] Angela: yeah. I wouldn’t anticipate proactively volunteering the information I’m thinking about, like how would we even be exploring other partners?

[00:41:43] Angela: And it would largely, I assume, be through. And then it’s like, I see that’s pretty public. Yeah. For anyone to like see your face and know, and if they run into you on the street or you happen to run in like similar social circles, it would come up. So I’m just like, oh, I don’t know how I would.

[00:42:00] Jesse: Explain that that definitely adds to the kind of barriers to entry if you will.

[00:42:06] Jesse: But I kind of feel the same way. Like you don’t have to explain anything who are these people. It’s kind of like the whole internet trolls we’re talking about. Like, if you don’t, if this person like barely knows you don’t own them, anything, even if they know you, you don’t owe them anything, it’s your sex life.

[00:42:22] Jesse: Like they don’t have any say in it. So that’s kind of like how I think about it because obviously. There will be some kind of like respectability lens and all that stuff that needs to be navigated, which I think is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. at the end of the day, like your private personal life is your private personal life and is not anybody else’s business.

[00:42:43] Angela: I mean, you’re right. I think I just personally need to build more self-confidence to, to like, believe that for myself and like defend myself in that kind of position when. When, and if anyone were to like, come up to me, like I saw

[00:42:58] Jesse: you, I’m, I’m sure plenty of people will, but it’s, again, it’s like that doesn’t change.

[00:43:03] Jesse: Like, even if you’re a parent, it doesn’t change whether or not you are a good parent or not whether or not you’re teaching your child the correct values that has nothing to, to do with that. Like, yeah. You’re not like a one thing person. Like that’s not all that you are. It’s just the facet of you. Yeah.

[00:43:20] Jesse: Just the concept of the relationship structure that you’re in.

[00:43:23] Angela: True. Oh, well, I’ve learned so much today. Yay. So, and thank you for sharing everything and being open. open, uh, um, transitioning into the fortune cookie clothes. What is the most unexpected thing that you learned about yourself? Being in an open relationship

[00:43:49] Jesse: about myself?

[00:43:50] Jesse: Oh my gosh. , that’s such a great question. I think I’m a lot more flexible than I give myself credit for, because like I’ve always felt, I feel like I live a very regimented life. Like I have an agenda for my day. I have a schedule of things I want to do. I have these like ABC things that I do every day and I don’t like to deviate and being in an open relationship.

[00:44:17] Jesse: Kind of throws a monkey wrench into that a little bit where it’s like, you have to be a little bit more flexible with what you’re doing relationship wise. Um, and I found that, for example, I was saying like, I thought I was gonna die jealousy. I didn’t die of jealousy. So like, There are things like that where I’m just like, oh, I am a little bit more flexible in certain areas of my life than I thought I was, because originally I was like, there’s no way, like I would be feeling so like negative all the time.

[00:44:49] Jesse: I would be like, so uncertain about what my partner is doing all the time. And that’s kind of not necessarily been the case. Um, as we, as we move along in our relationship. So I definitely feel like doing this had made me feel, made me. How flexible I really am. And I can really like explore different things without kind of fear of damage to my core self.

[00:45:12] Jesse: If that makes sense.

[00:45:14] Angela: That’s awesome. Yeah. Proud of you. Thank you. great. Well, this was very enlightening, I will say. Um, so listeners hope you’ve enjoyed this episode as much as I enjoyed asking these questions. These are

[00:45:30] Jesse: very good questions.

[00:45:31] Angela: Thank you. Thank you. Um, if you have more questions for Jesse and he doesn’t feel like his privacy is being invaded, you could write in your questions and see if he chooses to respond or not.

[00:45:43] Angela: Um, at tell us where you’re from@gmail.com. Um, or hit him up if you’re cute. I don’t know, whatever, not him up.

[00:45:52] Jesse: If you’re cute for sure.

[00:45:54] Angela: Normal pics. Don’t send Dick pics to that email. Yo, send your, send your,

[00:45:58] Jesse: if you send nudes, they better be good nudes. Okay. None of them and

[00:46:02] Angela: send them DM Jesse on Instagram.

[00:46:04] Angela: I don’t wanna, I don’t wanna see that shit. We have a shared email account podcast. No, don’t do it. Don’t do it. I will not please. DM. Jesse. Doesn’t wanna see that. Personally , um, or just leave comments, feedback, whatever on what you found interesting or lingering questions you have, or whatever on our socials.

[00:46:26] Angela: Um, and come back next week, cuz we’ll have another episode for you then. And until then CES.

Note: Transcript fully created by automated AI

[00:00:00] Jesse: Hi everyone. I’m Jesse Lin

[00:00:02] Angela: And I’m Angela Lin. And welcome back to another episode of, but where are you really from? Today, we’re talking about a subject that we’ve been dancing around in our personal lives, which is social media and specifically the potential dark side of social media, basically cyber bowling, et cetera.

[00:00:26] Angela: Um, and I think. Is not a new subject. It’s something that has been around, I think since the advent of the internet really, but, uh, something that we wanted to talk about because it’s like kind of more recently. Something top of mind for us. And I think that’s because if you’ve been following our journey, as we’ve been trying to grow this podcast, the main way that we’re doing, so is through amping up our social media game.

[00:00:54] Angela: And specifically, um, we’re like heavy on Instagram, but we are now heavy on TikTok and also moving into YouTube and especially TikTok. Is just like such a space for conversation now, in terms of like where people congregate to have discussion on social media, outside of Twitter, but TikTok is where we are actively participating.

[00:01:19] Angela: Um, and so I, yeah, I just wanna talk about this because it’s like, there’s kind of like pros and cons to this, right? Like, Being connected to everyone around the world via social media is such a like amazing thing, but also has like so many potential pitfalls. So like an example of how amazing it is, um, an example of how the like, interconnect.

[00:01:47] Angela: Interconnectedness of all of us is so amazing. And hopefully this doesn’t change by the time between when I say this now and when it actually happens. But, um, is like as many of, you know, we recently did an episode about the Ukraine war and we’ve been pushing clips about that out on TikTok and Instagram.

[00:02:07] Angela: And we’ve been getting a lot of, uh, Conversation from people in Ukraine and largely showing appreciation and gratitude towards us, kind of like raising awareness about what’s going on and like getting people to talk more about the war. Um, but some people gave us some shit because we had a Russian civilian on, instead of is how they saw it instead of a Ukrainian.

[00:02:35] Angela: But if you actually listened to our episode, you saw. Our initial intent was to have both a Russian and a Ukrainian on so that we could have both those perspectives. Um, and unfortunately, because the Ukraine war is ongoing and super sensitive, the people that we had approached to fill that Ukrainian slot didn’t come through in time.

[00:02:54] Angela: And it was such a timely discussion that we wanted to make sure we had it out. Um, so anyway, some people were giving us shit on. And having a Russian as opposed to Ukrainian and something amazing that came through because of the interconnectedness of the internet. Is that one Ukrainian who is still in Keve.

[00:03:15] Angela: I think that’s how you actually pronounce it. Cuz I also got some shit about how you pronounce. The capital. I think it’s Kiev, not Kiev, but anyways, um, someone who is actually still in the capital right now has, uh, volunteered to come on our show as a follow up episode that we are gonna be recording one week from now.

[00:03:35] Angela: Um, and so hopefully that still happens, but that that’s like a really wonderful example of like someone we would never have. In real life, but because of the internet and some like passing comment, right? Like you, they happen to see her clip and they happen to be like, Hey, I can like add some color here.

[00:03:53] Angela: We are now connected to someone like directly in the middle of this like huge thing that’s going on in the world. So that’s like fucking amazing. And that’s something that I think is just like, you know, something we can’t match with the power that the internet and social media has provided to all of us.

[00:04:10] Angela: And on the flip side, because we are now putting ourselves out there, like full force on social media, starting all these conversations, being really vulnerable. We’re also opening ourselves up to haters and like, I don’t wanna call them. I mean, Cyber bullying. You can define the, how you will. Trolls is probably the more like accepted and more commonly used term.

[00:04:36] Angela: We’re getting a lot more trolls now and especially depending on which topics we’re covering. So for example, the like, Biggest wave of cyber bowling slash trolling. I was getting, while we were running this TikTok stuff was the episode that we were talking about the simplified versus traditional Chinese writing systems.

[00:04:58] Angela: I. and it was just such a like weird one, because I was like, why am I getting shadow for this? It’s like, we were just exploring like the two different writing systems and like how we personally get confused cuz we’re ABCs and blah, blah, blah. And there were just a lot of people like rolling in to tell me, like you’re so wrong and like how dare you, blah, blah, blah.

[00:05:17] Angela: And then a bunch of like Chinese nationalists who are like, Can’t wait for Taiwan to reunify with China and like all this shit. And I was like, whoa, bro. I didn’t come in here with that kind of energy. And it was just like waves of people like that. And it was the first time in my life that I’ve dealt with that.

[00:05:36] Angela: So it was just like, I was simultaneously happy that people were interested enough in, you know, the content to be in heated discussion about it. But also just like, it took a really strong toll on me, like personally, because. . I mean, these are all people that are just hiding behind like a fake avatar on the internet, but at the same time, they’re directing comments towards me.

[00:06:01] Angela: Mm-hmm because it’s like my face that’s out there saying these things and they’re like calling me a liar or like telling me I’m. Stupid or like telling Taiwan’s not a country, you know, there’s just like all these things. And I was like, it’s really hard for me to separate like things that I should be taking personally and things that I shouldn’t be taking personally.

[00:06:21] Angela: So yeah, this is why I think we are like recently inspired to talk about this subject because it is something that we’ve like personally been starting to, um, have to deal with ourselves.

[00:06:35] Jesse: Yes, that makes a lot of sense. And I think it’s interesting that I don’t know. I feel like when the internet first became a thing, like became widely accessible to people, there was immediately already like some weird, you know, like people were trolling in like forums, like pro areas where you could like message people and there.

[00:06:57] Jesse: I feel like there was this whole thing where it was like, as the internet matures, like those people will disappear because it will be less easy for them. Like it. It will be less easy for them to hide behind the anonymity of being on internet. But I feel like that’s actually accelerated because so many people are on the internet now, and there are so many different ways to access the internet.

[00:07:19] Jesse: Like you could be using the internet through like, let’s say clear web, like regular internet, you could be using an internet through the dark web. You could be using a VPN, like there’s so many ways to. Access to internet and OBS who you are that it’s, I think it’s become a larger problem than it was in the past, but it’s gotten less recognition because everybody is on the internet now.

[00:07:40] Jesse: Yes. So it’s kind of like, um, we’ve talked about this whole, like social contract in certain situations before. It’s kind of like, you are contracting potentially to be a harassed on the internet because you’re on the internet and it’s kind of not lawless, but it is like not, there’s not really. Governing body necessarily similar to how this contract that you have when you go on like content sites is you see an ad for the content.

[00:08:07] Jesse: So it’s kind of that situation. And, um, to your point, like it’s, uh, spread to different areas. So it’s a interesting topic, I think, to take a look. .

[00:08:20] Angela: Yeah. And I will add one thing is, um, I think there is just kind of like a little added layer of understanding around like what types of people engage on the internet once you are someone who puts out content for the internet.

[00:08:35] Angela: Um, because for example, we talked about on Twitter, both of us largely just lurk. And we do not actually like tweet. We just read people that we follow mm-hmm um, before I started posting our stuff on TikTok, especially I think I largely felt like, oh, the people who like engage on social media are largely like the content creators and like people who at least are investing now to like put their.

[00:09:05] Angela: As their avatar, if they’re gonna be like talking on the internet, they like are invested enough in conversations that they, they think they’re part of this like community or whatever. Right. And what I’ve found since posting our stuff and people asking questions or like hitting on me or like, whatever they’re doing is that I would say the majority of people that engage are just like blank, avatar people.

[00:09:29] Angela: Hmm, they are the lurkers, but they are lurkers who like to like chime in. Yeah. Especially if it’s something where they can say something kind of mean, but like stay anonymous. And it just, I constantly think of the, um, and sorry, I always, I talk about the story a lot and I’m like, I’ve always, but. Whatever the actual quote is, but like Brene brown, who’s like Haah one of the loveliest motivational speaker type people out there.

[00:09:59] Angela: But I remember watching. Oh, no, I read her book, one of her books. Mm-hmm and she started out saying like some things that she kind of has to like remind herself of all the time is that she gets haters all the time. When you’re a public figure. This is like even beyond social media. Right? Like when you’re like an actual public figure, you get a lot of haters because you’re just like easy to get picked on.

[00:10:20] Angela: Yeah. And she was saying like, you know, she’s personally also dealt with kind of like, how much should I, like, let hurt me versus not mm-hmm and her kind of, um, mantra is like those who are not brave enough to enter the stadium themselves. So like, think of it as like a gladiator or whatever, right? Like, yeah.

[00:10:41] Angela: Yeah. If you are not brave enough to enter the stadium, you don’t have a right to say anything or to have. Have me care about what you are saying. Mm-hmm about me because yeah. Why should I care? Like, I’m the one being brave enough to like, be vulnerable, put myself out there, like in the most, out there way possible, publicly.

[00:11:03] Angela: Right. And if you are gonna just be this like anonymous, hiding behind a avatar or nothing kind of person. Who cares what you have to say and like, easier so than done. But like, I always, I, when I’m like having trouble with like, how much do I care about this or not, I constantly kind of think about that mantra.

[00:11:20] Angela: And I’m like, okay, I just have to like, make myself believe it. But like, it, it makes a lot of sense to me and. and yeah, it was just like, it was interesting to me to see the proportion of people that engage that like literally have posted no content ever yeah. Are like private with like user 9, 5, 6 1, 2, and like are like in it heated, like shitting on you.

[00:11:42] Angela: It’s it’s crazy.

[00:11:43] Jesse: Yeah, I so a few things. Um, I think it will be interesting cuz we were just talking about to back it up with some stats. So there’s a study on pew research.org. I get all my internet related studies from there it’s a couple years old released in 2017. And it’s about kind of just online harassment in general.

[00:12:01] Jesse: So they surveyed a bunch of users and, uh, the conclusion was a, uh, the larger share of internet users view the online environment as a space that facilitates anonymity more than in 2014. So it’s. Couple years old, but basically, um, overall, like they surveyed the user on three kind of question areas. So it’s like, is it more anonymous?

[00:12:23] Jesse: Like the percentage of users who say online environment allows people to be more anonymous, more critical or more supportive of, of others. The more critical and more supportive. The percentage is about the same, but the largest difference is in the more anonymous category. So in 20 14, 60 2% of internet users said that the online environment allowed people to be more anonymous versus in 20 17, 80 6% of those surveyed said that it allowed people to be more anonymous.

[00:12:52] Jesse: So definitely I think people are like your experience. Is you’re picking up on the fact that there are more and more users that are effectively anonymous, cuz they have no information. They don’t post anything. They just like comment shit things. And that volume of users seems to be outweighing. Those users who are, um, generating critical, uh, what was it generating?

[00:13:14] Jesse: Uh, critical or supportive kind of comments,

[00:13:18] Angela: which I guess is in contrast to like when. MySpace and Facebook or whatever first came out. Right. And you had to like, kind of verify who you were. Not, not that everyone was real, but like, it felt more like you couldn’t be anonymous because especially Facebook, when that first came out, you had to be like university or high school affiliated, like.

[00:13:41] Angela: Yeah. Yeah. It was like a, a real thing. So you couldn’t be anonymous, you couldn’t be a troll like that. Mm-hmm um, so I guess, because when you read that sta I was like, why is that a stat? Because it’s so like, obvious to be that like, the internet has so many anonymous people, but in contrast to kind of the way things started of like, when social media and these like, Online groups first became a thing.

[00:14:04] Angela: It was a lot less anonymous because it was weirder. If you had like a fake picture, people were

[00:14:12] Jesse: expecting you, people were engage with you. Yeah, totally. And I also think like, there are so many more ways you can be anonymous now. Right? Like back then, it was like you had a few large portals. MySpace, maybe a third thing.

[00:14:27] Jesse: Like if you were, I, there were don’t

[00:14:29] Angela: even know to your point forums like Reddit and

[00:14:31] Jesse: yeah. Forums. Um, but now there’s those things basically. Well, not MySpace, but those things still exist. But now you have all of these other platforms that anyone can join in anonymously postings on. So there’s just like an infinite amount of places that a person can be troll in versus like in the past they really.

[00:14:52] Jesse: Not like limited scope, but they had a fewer places where they control around. And, oh, I was gonna follow up on your comment regarding like, not letting things absorb into yourself because I do think that, um, social media uses like really damaging to your self-esteem for sure. And the way that I deal with comments is actually I try to think about.

[00:15:16] Jesse: what the internet was for me when I first started using it. And the internet was for me, like Ebos world. like, just like, it was just, I like when I first started using the internet, it was just like trash internet. It’s like my face Ebos world. Like, um, just all the bad things that I wanted to do. I did on the internet.

[00:15:38] Jesse: And so. I think about it that way. And I’m like, oh, I can’t take this seriously. Like, this is, this is like the dumping ground for me. This is where I go to like, do all the things that are like, weird, like gross, like all that stuff. And it can’t be like a reality for me. And so I think about that and then I’m like, okay, like, this is all just like, not real.

[00:16:01] Jesse: And they don’t need to pay attention to it because it’s the same. Like I don’t put that stuff out as. My normal person, you know, I don’t like go up to someone and be like, here’s my internet search history. Like, this is what I like, you know, it’s like, everyone has kind of their like dual thing. So I try to just think about like, the internet is not like a serious place.

[00:16:19] Jesse: It’s all like, for me, like the origin has always been like, like a, that it’s been like a ridiculous, silly, like playground. Um, and when I think about it like that, it. It doesn’t affect me as much because I’m like, why am I, why am I so stressed over? Like what this person in this like, ridiculous place is telling me about?

[00:16:37] Jesse: Like, I don’t care about that. So, yeah.

[00:16:39] Angela: Yeah. I mean, I guess both are true though. It is simultaneously a ridiculous playground with like, Stupid things that is definitely the internet AKA, like why meme culture is half of the internet, but at the same time, I think because people use it legitimately as a place to connect also with other people in conversation with each other, when you are remote, for example, blah, blah.

[00:17:07] Angela: There’s like a lot of serious aspects of like usage of the internet that. Makes it difficult for me to just completely disregard this as like a dumping ground of bullshit mm-hmm um, because there are so many like real things going on. Um, and also like, I don’t know because, well, maybe because I like quit my job and this is like my only thing.

[00:17:29] Angela: This is my main thing now. Yeah. So like content creator, like title, right. Your whole job is the internet and like be being on the internet. Yeah. So I can’t disregard it like that for me. Unfortunately, it’s like, I can’t make that separation. And so I’m like, this is me this, and like the, the things we’re putting out there is us.

[00:17:50] Angela: It’s not like a fake version of us. Like what we talk about right now and is what goes on. And like, this is what we actually think this is our actual experience. So it’s just. It’s hard for me to separate, but anyways, this actually ties into, like you said, we wanted to bring in some stats and I, I don’t know if we need to like rattle off all the stats, just like ones that are kind of relevant, I guess, to what we’re saying.

[00:18:10] Angela: Mm-hmm but, um, kind of to show like how the complexity of the internet. Has both these like dark and good sides. We’ve been talking about like the negative aspects of how the internet, what the internet has brought forward. But actually I saw some interesting stats from, let me see. Oh, it’s actually, it might have been the same pew research that you, um, were pulling from as 2018.

[00:18:40] Angela: Um, oh, not in mindset, you’re older, but oh, okay. This is 2018 pew research and it says that 81% of teens say social media makes them feel more connected. To what’s going on in their friends’ lives. And I saw, it’s not just this study. I have like at least two or three additional ones that say essentially the same thing.

[00:19:01] Angela: So it’s this weird dichotomy because it is simultaneously a place that very easily hits people’s self esteems in like a really bad way, because you’re comparing what other people are doing. You feel like you have to like. The best stuff out there, blah, blah, blah. But at the same time, especially gen Z and below, right?

[00:19:22] Angela: Like people who are like born into the internet age, as opposed to us where we like new life before the internet, and then transitioned into the internet age. So people who were like born into this digital age, It is kind of the main way that they stay connected with their friends. So it it’s, they cannot separate it, like you said, because it is like, it’s literally another version of real life for them.

[00:19:48] Angela: It’s like, it’s not like social internet, social media becomes like fake life. And like IRL is the only real life it’s like, this is both real life. Um, and it has this positive impact of them. Like if I’m not able to spend like physical time with all my friends, when I like talk to them, catch up with them, like their thing, comment on their thing.

[00:20:11] Angela: It makes me feel like I’m actually interacting with them, even though it’s only through digital

[00:20:16] Jesse: means. That’s interesting because

[00:20:23] Jesse: I always feel like. My, my hypothesis or conjecture was that like generations path, like younger than us, would be able to navigate the internet in a way that is even less, um, where they would be tricked even less than we are. If that makes sense. Because like, I’m starting to get to a point where I’m like, oh, am I being, do I understand the internet anymore?

[00:20:50] Jesse: like, you know, kind of like you’re reaching the, I’m reaching my like initial boom. Mm situation where I’m like, do I understand the internet anymore? Like, am, am I being manipulated somehow? And I always, I, I always felt like, as you grew up with the stuff, it becomes easier for you because you’re just like native there, but I’ve never thought about it kind of like the way you’re describing it, because a lot of the stuff that people have like brought to me, which is like, um, like re your, your.

[00:21:17] Jesse: Uh, whatever your real Insta versus your Finsta mm-hmm that that’s all like gen Z stuff. So I always, I always thought that like, oh, they were able, they, they understand how separate it. Right? You have your real Insta for your real people and your Finsta, whereas you’re projecting like, whatever it is, you wanna project.

[00:21:33] Jesse: Um, but that doesn’t mean necessarily that there aren’t like, um, underlying. Underlying things that people are experiencing, maybe not like consciously thinking about, because all of that, for sure. I think does have some kind of, um, mental weight on your like functioning. Yeah.

[00:21:54] Angela: Yeah. Well, even the fact that you mentioned that people have real Insta versus Finsta implies that they do use the real one to like connect with actual people they care about.

[00:22:04] Angela: Yes. Like, so there. there are these two sides. Mm-hmm um, but since you’re talking about kind of like the mental hole and whatnot, and we’re talking about teens, I did wanna share a few stats that are relevant. And I think we wanted to like chat specifically about kind of like people who grew up who are growing up now in this kind of like digital world and navigating it.

[00:22:25] Angela: Mm-hmm um, so something. Okay. I have some general stats that I think are interesting and then like specifically re COVID and how that kind of like amplified everything. Mm-hmm um, so general stats. This is from the government’s website, actually the oh, government website, but via UNESCO. So this is like global stats.

[00:22:47] Angela: Okay. Um, low socioeconomic status is a main factor in youth bullying. Basically for poor, you’re more likely to be bullied. And I think that that is especially true in places where maybe you happen. Maybe you go to a school where like, not everyone is low income and maybe you were like, you know, you tested in or whatever.

[00:23:08] Angela: And you kind of always feel like you’re odd one out. Or you’re just like on the border of like, not as well off as other people. I think that’s very much possible. And then this one hits home for us. Immigrant born youth in wealthy countries are more likely to be bullied than locally born youth. Hello.

[00:23:32] Angela: Hello. Welcome to our lives. um, yeah, so those are just like, so noodle on some general stats and then ones that I thought were really interesting, which is like, I’m sure already expected this, but it was nice to see like real stats. Um, these two studies are from COVID times. Um, this is from a site. A anti cyber bullying site called the enough is enough.

[00:24:02] Angela: Um, but there’s one study and it was, this was based in Europe, but from February, 2021, it’s really recent, um, 44% of children who had been cyber bullied before lockdown said it happened even more. During lockdown mm-hmm . And then similarly, um, from a 20, 20, April, 2021, there’s been a 70% increase in the amount of bullying slash hate speech among teens and children in the month, since the COVID lockdown began.

[00:24:32] Angela: And. Hey listeners, wondering how you can support us. The biggest way is by increasing our visibility by following us on Instagram at where are you from pod on TikTok at, but where are you really from subscribing to our YouTube channel under, but where are you really from podcast? Rating and reviewing us on apple podcasts and telling your friends the more people we can get to listen to the show, the more we can continue spotlighting different perspectives and stories.

[00:24:57] Angela: And if you feel so inclined, we’re also accepting donations@buymeiacoffee.com slash where are you from? Thanks. Y’all so it’s just like, I feel like what we just discussed about, you know, the anonymous nature of people. Kind of congregating to the internet to like, be negative and like, do these things shielded behind this like hidden veil of anonymity.

[00:25:26] Angela: I already suspected that was the case that like COVID made it worse, but it was interesting to see these actual stats because basically it feels like to. especially being a, like kid growing up during this time and being ripped outta school for the last two years and doing like home, you know, essentially homeschooling via zoom and not having those normal social interactions with people.

[00:25:49] Angela: Like, especially if you were already not that comfortable in social settings, I could see it being just like a complete dumpster fire during COVID where it’s like, Um, people just like pile on because of like, what do I have to lose? Like I, and a lot of it comes from like self hate as well. You know, like a lot of people who bully in general aren’t because they like have insecurities about themselves, but I’m sure a lot of people were just like, I feel like shit myself right now.

[00:26:19] Angela: And I have nowhere to like, unleash this. So, so I’m just gonna like double down on my like outward hatred towards these other kids. I feel shitty about myself right now. So it’s like

[00:26:30] Jesse: fucking off. Yeah. I mean, I also, I think it’s difficult, right? Because it’s like, when you’re in a fiscal location for school, you could like, you can’t monitor cyber bullying, but you can monitor kids’ usage of phones.

[00:26:42] Jesse: You can see if they’re actually bullying people in real life, but as people are at home, It’s very difficult to, I mean, I, like, I think we’ve discussed this before. I don’t envy anyone being a parent right now. It is very difficult to understand what is happening. And like, it’s really hard to see how your kids are chatting with other people.

[00:27:01] Jesse: I mean, like, especially if you are gen Z has a Finsta and like you’re like, which is the real fit and they don’t tell you the fences there. So it. I, I can definitely see how, how the pandemic proliferated cyberbullying, because it just makes it so much easier and there’s no one to stop you. Right. So, you know, I think that’s so much the worst in people sometimes.

[00:27:23] Angela: Yeah. To your point of like it being so much harder to detect as parents, I feel like I just wanna like highlight that because I feel like a lot of parents talk about like, um, device control, right? Like trying to like monitor how many hours. Their kids are on the internet and whatever, and maybe they were actually able to do that.

[00:27:43] Angela: Doubt it, but like maybe they were more easily able to do that when it was pre pandemic. But when you like have to be on the internet to be at school and school is like six, seven hours a day or whatever, like, you don’t know what your kid is doing during those hours. They’re probably just like dicking around how many people are like actually paying attention to their teacher through a.

[00:28:05] Angela: Webcam for two years, six, seven hours a day. Yeah. Right. They definitely have like their chat open and like are simultaneously on TikTok or whatever. And you, as a parent are probably so stressed, like working your own job in the other room, or like doing all the other things to like, keep the family going that you can possibly be seeing what your kid is doing.

[00:28:26] Angela: So like, yeah, someone could be like in class quote unquote in class, and then also like being bullied or bullying via social media at the same time. Just like their face is on the screen, but they’re doing other ships in

[00:28:38] Jesse: time. Yeah. And even if you just thinking about it from that perspective, like if you, as an adult are struggling in this current situation and you have the, your full capacity of having learned.

[00:28:49] Jesse: Social structures, how to communicate, how to work with other people. And you’re struggling. Think about how difficult it must be for a teenager or a kid who doesn’t have all of that. Who’s still building all of that and can’t build all of that because they’re not really in person with other people they’re struggling.

[00:29:06] Jesse: They don’t know what to do. And it’s, I, I like it’s a shitty situation all around because it’s just kinda like a general failure. I don’t think kind of what you’re saying. Um, I mean, aside from the people who are like really sadistic, like, I don’t think anyone particularly enjoys bullying people. Like, I don’t, it doesn’t, it’s not like a fun that, you know, it’s like something that you, you hurt someone else, but like, eventually that hurts you too.

[00:29:30] Jesse: Right? Cuz it’s, it’s a real, I think it takes some

[00:29:32] Angela: self-awareness to understand that

[00:29:34] Jesse: that’s true, but I’m just saying like, let’s say genuinely speaking, the welfare of this person is not. Like they have some kind of issue that they’re not dealing with and that’s being pushed onto other people. Mm-hmm , as you’re still learning the social structure, like being in a social structure, enforces like good behavior, bad behavior.

[00:29:53] Jesse: Right. And if you’re outside of that, that starts to disappear for you. Right. And especially if you’re on the internet, cuz you’re like, oh no one can tell who I am, who can tell I’m doing a good thing or bad thing. Yeah. Um, and I think that that can create negative behaviors where there may not have been.

[00:30:10] Angela: Yeah, yeah. To your point of kind of like the social structures, not existing to kind of reinforce what is good or bad. I also. To your point. A lot of people don’t mean to be mean, but maybe they say something that is hurtful and they don’t know that it’s hurtful. And when it’s an online space, a lot of times, the way you interact with people then is one-on-one.

[00:30:35] Angela: It’s like a chat or like a mess at a DM, like, or you leave a comment or like, whatever, it’s like harder to be in like group settings. Right. Unless it’s like a group zoom, but those are so awkward. Blah, blah. Anyways, there’s a lot more of like direct channel communication. So maybe you say something to someone say you’re a kid, right?

[00:30:53] Angela: Like a teen or whatever you say something to someone that like you don’t think is that mean, but like is actually pretty hurtful. And then the only person who witnessed that was like the person you said it to. , you’re not getting that like social feedback from like, normally it would be like, maybe you said it in front of like your friends and then someone would be like, dude, that’s kind of mean, why would you say that?

[00:31:13] Angela: You know, or like your mom over here say it. And they’re like, whoa, how could you say that? And then you know, that it’s bad and you don’t get that when it’s online. So I could see a lot of it of like, what is called bullying could be just like unchecked. You know, behavior that the kid even doesn’t really know was going to be that hurtful.

[00:31:36] Angela: Um, and then just like, won’t it’ll compound. I can see it compounding of like, oh, just like so much unchecked behavior of like, kind of borderline bad mm-hmm and then not knowing that it’s actually that bad. And then coming out two years later being like kind of a shit, a monster. Yeah. Not a monster, but just like, there’s just like a lot of shit.

[00:31:55] Angela: Like, um, I don’t wanna compare. Okay. I’m not saying like humans are animals. We kind of are, but like, um, for example, I watch the show on Netflix. That’s about, um, dogs being trained and there was one dog that they feature that was like taken from its mom at like two weeks old, which is not, it’s like a, no-no like usually dogs for adoption are like six to eight weeks.

[00:32:19] Angela: And it’s because during those few weeks it’s like really critical for the mom to like check their, do their pup essentially of like, it’s like trying to like bite. You know, it’s brothers and sisters were like wandering off or whatever. And the mom kind of like, yeah, checks it like physically. And then it learns these like fundamental things like, oh, I should not do this.

[00:32:38] Angela: This is bad, whatever, whatever. And then that dog was taken away so soon that the trainer was explaining, like, that’s why it’s such a bad dog. It’s not, it’s not really a bad dog. It’s just like it. Wasn’t it never learned. That that was like not okay. And now we have to like put in extra effort to teach to that dog so I could see it being kind of like that again, not saying a human is equivalent to a dog, but like, there are certain things in this like very impressionable age of like kid to young adult.

[00:33:06] Angela: where you don’t know how to behave necessarily. Mm-hmm until you’ve had enough practice in social interactions with lots of different people to know like, oh, this is hurtful to other people, oh, this is like, I would not wanna be treated this way. And I it’s like, I’m not putting myself in their shoes and blah, blah, blah.

[00:33:25] Angela: And being on the internet, I can just like obfuscate all of that.

[00:33:29] Jesse: So I have my own. Ideas about why people troll on the internet. But I think it’s kind of like for me, I feel like, let me just say, like, if I were to be a troll, the reason I would be a troll is because there are things I wanna say, but I don’t wanna say publicly, like, I don’t want people do I identify them to me, but I wanna say certain things to certain people where I’m like, you’re stupid.

[00:33:54] Jesse: You are wrong. You are ugly. Um, but it’s hard for me to, you know, like it’s really hard for me to imagine the motivation sometimes because I’m a really lazy person. So I’m like, I’m not gonna go outta my way to create a new account, just to message this person that they’re do. Like, I got better things to do with my time.

[00:34:15] Jesse: I would rather be watching TV. I’d rather pet my cat. I need to pick up shit on my floor. Like I have so many other things to do. I would rather do those things. Then go online and like shit on someone, because what’s the point. Like I don’t get anything out of it. Um, however, I think when I Des when you describe it like that, I start to think like, there must be like something fundamentally eating at the person that they would do that because what rational person would spend time on the internet shitting on people when you have so many other things to do.

[00:34:47] Jesse: Right. So I think about a troll as someone who has, like, they’re not probably don’t have a lot of social connections. They probably don’t have a lot going on in their lives because otherwise they’d be doing other stuff. Um, and those are kind of, I think the two main drivers for me, when I think about it and they obviously have some kind of like stressors on their life or negativity on their life, which is causing them to go on, um, the internet to lash out in that way.

[00:35:14] Jesse: But I think it’s like similar to the teams as like lack of a social network or social structure. Um, lack of fundamentally stuff to do, right? If you’re in a class six or seven hours a day, you don’t really do anything. You’re pretty bored. And then you have this thing where you, you. It could be COVID it could be loved one pass away, whatever you have, this, whatever stressor that is causing you to, um, lash out in certain ways.

[00:35:39] Jesse: I don’t think I’ve ever trolled anyone, but I will say like professionally, sometimes it’s really hard to keep your temper, right. Especially if you’re working in a high stress situation and like, you feel like the people you’re working with are. Holding up their ends like you there I’ve definitely gotten in certain situations where I just, I said something to someone and I was like, that was not like, that was not helpful in any way.

[00:36:01] Jesse: It was not professional. Like, it didn’t serve anything except for my need to tell this person that they are dumb or whatever. And, and that, that all comes from the same kind of thing where it’s like, there’s a stressor and then I’m like BLE to you. And I like that didn’t I didn’t really wanna do that, but I was just like, so.

[00:36:20] Jesse: In the moment about this, how I was feeling that I did it. Um, but I’ll pass what you I’ll pass over to you to say what you think as well.

[00:36:28] Angela: Yeah, no, I completely agree. And actually the work thing is a really good example because that’s not even like an anonymous version of bullying and it’s not an intentful bullying either.

[00:36:37] Angela: And I’ve done the exact same thing. I think there is just something there’s like different layers of reasons. Someone. Say something that is hurtful on the internet and the like least intentional is kind of the one you just described of like, even when you are not anonymous and you are just at work and you’re just communicating, there is a big difference between an in person and like an online email or chat or whatever.

[00:37:06] Angela: And the ease. I honestly think that like, ease of saying whatever you were thinking. is a big reason. People say things that they shouldn’t be saying, because when you don’t have to face that person or even video, right? Like you wouldn’t, sometimes you wouldn’t even say these things. Like if you just had a video conference on and you’re, you were facing each other, even cyber, but video, you would never say.

[00:37:31] Angela: what you were going to say. Um, and so I think there is just some, like, ease of like your fingers, just start flowing. It’s like stream of consciousness, right? Like I think when you talk out loud in, in real life or via video, you are forced to filter. It brings forced to like filter where you’re gonna say before you actually blur something out most of the time.

[00:37:53] Angela: Right? Like I obviously like still have said things that I shouldn’t be saying out loud, but. That filter gets shut down a lot lower when you are like via internet, even non anonymous email and like chat or whatever. You’re just like, I’m just fucking pissed. And then you’re just like, blah, blah. And then you hit enter.

[00:38:13] Angela: You’re like, shit. It’s like too late

[00:38:15] Jesse: where you were talking about with different levels like that. I, I feel like the reason that it’s acceptable due to that is because when you’re doing like a slack or you’re doing like an email that is like a level one anonymity because, because you’re not actually like you’re in my brain, I’m like, oh, that you don’t necessarily see the person at the other end of what you’re doing.

[00:38:39] Jesse: Cuz you’re just writing the email and it’s just an email. And that email is like, Disassociated slightly mm-hmm from the person, which is why you can just be like, blah. And it’s okay at the moment. Um, but why you wouldn’t like face to face even on a video be like necessarily. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:38:59] Angela: Um, okay. And then going levels down right into like actual anonymity and people on the internet, like purposely saying mean things like, not just like, oops.

[00:39:09] Angela: Didn’t know, that would be hurtful, like purposefully saying like you’re stupid or like this is dumb, blah, blah, blah. I agree. I think a lot of it has to do with like, they have their own shit going on that they’re not dealing with either. Like they don’t have a lot of things going on, like you said, or they have.

[00:39:24] Angela: Misfortune happening in their lives that they’d rather not deal with head on and instead are kind of like directing their attention elsewhere to kind of, um, distract themselves. I think a lot of it also comes down to. the lack of accountability that you need to have when you say these things on the internet.

[00:39:44] Angela: So like you said, oh, there are all these times. I I’ve thought about saying like, you are stupid, you’re ugly, blah, blah, blah. But you don’t do that. And a big part of it is like, well, whether you’re anonymous or if you were not anonymous and you actually said that you’d have to take accountability. Right.

[00:40:04] Angela: And when you are anonymous, you don’t really, because it’s really hard for people to like, figure out who you are, especially when you’re a user 9 5 6 1 2. Yeah. And so it, it gives you the permission to be an asshole because no, one’s gonna be able to. Figure it out who you are. And so a lot of people is similar to what we were talking about during like the pandemic when there was all the like anti-Asian stuff, which is like a lot of people were thinking these things before COVID started and originated.

[00:40:34] Angela: After that came out, it was like, everyone got this permission to like release all these, like anti-Asian thoughts that they had. And some people even did. So UN anonymously, like, like in real life and just like, say things to people’s face, which is like awful. But. Amplify that even more on the internet where people can be anonymous and take no accountability for it.

[00:40:57] Angela: And just be like, I’ve always hated you. Now I get the chance to like, tell you that I hate you and not take any responsibility for that.

[00:41:05] Jesse: Absolutely. And when you were saying that, what was coming to my brain was the like risk reward. Mm-hmm for being control basically. And like, when I describe that for myself, There’s no risk.

[00:41:16] Jesse: Right? I could do that anonymously, but there’s also no reward for me. Like I’m not gonna get, you know, like I would rather be doing all these other things. That reward is higher for me than trolling people. But for other people, How things have changed, have shifted how they evaluated their risk and their reward for being an online troll or expressing things that they may not have expressed before, which is why all these things are just like coming out of the word, work like crazy people or thinking they say whatever they want.

[00:41:45] Jesse: And it’s cool. Like, yeah, that’s definitely what’s happening.

[00:41:48] Angela: I think there’s also just two more, like kind of like speculating things. One is, um, similar to what we were talking about, the kind of like dissociation of like, you don’t see the other end or whatever. Like I think even though for example, like on TikTok or whatever, like they were seeing our faces, cuz it’s a video based thing.

[00:42:09] Angela: They know that they’re not talking to like the actual person, like it’s not like a live conversation that they’re having. Yeah. So then it feels. Easier to say something mean. Yeah, because it’s like, oh, I’m not like live discussing with you. So it’s fine. And then the other aspect is like, when you are anonymous, I think you, there’s almost this element of like, you decide that you get to be like the judge of everything.

[00:42:33] Angela: Mm. And there was no like consequence to it. Right. You’re just like, you’ve like deemed yourself, the like ultimate judge overlord of everything to get to say, like, what’s good. What’s bad. What’s shit. What’s great. And like you given that yourself, you’ve given yourself that power because, because no one can take it away from you.

[00:42:53] Angela: Mm-hmm like, you can just like roll into like. Bri, you know, Brittney Spears’s account were like the biggest people on the planet and tell them they’re fat and ugly and whatever. And like, no one can make you not say that. Yeah. So you just feel like, oh, now I’m like so important and why should I take this power away from myself?

[00:43:13] Jesse: I don’t know. Anyways, to your point of, um, people trolling on famous people’s accounts, do you think it’s worth it to become internet famous? I mean like some people are, would you consider Britney internet famous? No, she’s actually famous. Yeah. She’s like, there’s a difference. Yeah. There’s a difference.

[00:43:29] Jesse: Internet famous are like people who are, uh, Jojo. Siwa is internet. I think who else? Um, I mean

[00:43:36] Angela: every talker. Yeah. Every like influencer person. Yeah. Content creator. Yeah. Is internet famous, like anyone who was completely unknown until they’ve made a personality for themselves on the internet is mm-hmm is what I consider, like internet famous.

[00:43:52] Angela: And some of them actually like transcend. Different non-internet things, but like if they started with that, that’s, that’s what I deem internet fame. Okay.

[00:44:01] Jesse: Um, you go first. Well, I told you, I, I I’ve started this like thought Instagram account FTA, basically. and I can tell you it’s not, I mean, like it’s not that it’s, like, I started with a very specific goal, which is to be like attention seeking, which is like fine.

[00:44:20] Jesse: Um, but also. There are some like unfun aspects of it, because like random people will message you with some level of entitlement being like, like we should hang out and like, we should see each other. And I’m like, no, we shouldn’t like, I’m here for like cue people to hit me up and you’re not cute. Or like, people will send like, I’m solicited, like Dick pics.

[00:44:42] Jesse: And I’m like, uh, like this is not like a. It better be a really good Dick pick if just send and it’s not that

[00:44:49] Angela: good. Do you think it’s worth it or you don’t think it’s worth it? Or what, what was it? It

[00:44:53] Jesse: has not been worth it so far. I see. Um, I thought it would be like really easy where you post like a thirsty photo and a million people will follow you.

[00:45:02] Jesse: And apparently that’s not the case anymore.

[00:45:05] Angela: well, Yeah. There’s a lot of people post a lot of stuff. Yeah.

[00:45:10] Jesse: It’s hard to sift through. I will, I will say like, probably the negative part of it is that like, I do follow a lot of other like thought accounts to try to like replicate what they’re doing. And it, the explore page is like a little bit stressful, cuz I’m like, everyone looks so beautiful and there’s so many of ’em that I’m like, this is crazy.

[00:45:27] Jesse: But then on the other hand, sometimes people will pop up on my Explorer where I’m like this person’s not cute. Why do they have like 10,000 follow. It’s

[00:45:34] Angela: hard to say. Yeah. It’s hard to say the internet is a strange place. You’re a target. Um, well, yeah, for me first, I’ll kind of like, we made this big distinction between like real famous versus like real IL famous right.

[00:45:49] Angela: Versus internet famous. And I’ve Al I’ve had the same discussion with so many people, which is. A lot of people who covet being famous, really just covet wealth because they think of like, oh, if I were famous, I’d get a private jet. I’d like have money to light all these mansions, like fancy cars and like rich clothes on whatever.

[00:46:10] Angela: Right. And they don’t think of the downsides. So for example, we mentioned Brittany, Britney, Britney, I feel so bad for Britt for like so many different reasons, but like, forget the conservatorship. I watched this documentary of her like 10 years ago where she was like, I can’t even like go shopping. Like I go to, I decide to randomly go to like a boutique shop to buy some clothes and there’s like 500 Popp sea outside.

[00:46:32] Angela: And I can’t even like, enjoy my time. Yeah. And. . So when we talk about like that aspect, I I’ve always said, like, I’d rather just be rich and anonymous than be like famous. Right. Because then you enjoy all the perks of being famous without the, like annoyingness of like people to your point of like feeling entitled towards you.

[00:46:52] Angela: Like people who are like fans of. Famous people. They feel like they know them. Yeah. So then they feel entitled to like go up and like demand things and like should the most extreme stalk them. Right. And like expect some sort of real relationship with them, which is crazy. So I’ve never wanted that. But now when we’re in this like weird space of like, we’re like content creators now and like we’re, you know, trying to like create some sort of footprint.

[00:47:19] Angela: I’m conflicted because I think I don’t personally want to be famous in internet famous in that. Like, I don’t want stalkers. I don’t want like people to like come up to me randomly on the street and whatever. I still don’t want that. But at the same time, because. The means of like us creating this footprint is through us talking and like our personalities being out there, I can’t be an anonymous, rich person, you know, like in the like other scenario, right.

[00:47:49] Angela: I, my face is inherently attached to it. And I think I can’t definitively say if it’s worth it or not, because for me a big motivator to do. Podcast is that I think a lot of what we say is really important. Not, not like not everything we say is important. Like I don’t think us getting drunk and watching sailor moon is necessarily like the most, most the deepest conversation, but.

[00:48:17] Angela: I think sometimes we talk about really important things. For example, Ukraine more other times, like we’ve mentioned just us existing and being able to talk about stupid shit, but us being Asian and like putting our faces out there and making it normal for people who look like us to be in media. I think that is important.

[00:48:33] Angela: So the big reason why I’m studying so much time to like make a footprint is that I think more people should be viewing our stuff to like. Benefit from shared experiences, things they never knew about, or just seeing people who look like them and knowing that that’s normal. Like, I think that’s really important and that’s why I, I wanna grow it so more people see it.

[00:48:54] Angela: But at the same time, I personally don’t want it. Like I have this other side where I’m like, I don’t want it to grow at all because I don’t want more people to come in to like be assholes towards us. I don’t want potentially people to. Stalk me and like, do you know all these like pot cancel me, like all these things that come with, like putting yourself out there.

[00:49:14] Angela: I don’t want any of those things, but at the same time, I want our message to get out. So it’s just like, it’s really frustrating because there is, I can’t separate the internet because I see that there’s both, there’s like this dumb. Stupid part of the internet that I really shouldn’t care about, but then there’s this like really fruitful part of the internet where people are having real conversations and like getting real meaning like the number of people who’ve said, like, thank you so much for like sharing these stories that I felt so alone about this until I like heard you talk about this, or like, I’m learning more about my culture by listening to you guys talk about it on.

[00:49:49] Angela: Podcasts like the number of those types of messages that we get, make it impossible for me to say, like, this is stupid and not worth my time. Mm-hmm so I just like, I’m very conflicted. I, I don’t have a yes, no.

[00:50:00] Jesse: Yeah. I hear what you’re basically like your. you don’t want the negative impacts of fame for creating an earnest conversation?

[00:50:10] Jesse: Yeah. Right. It’s tricky because like, I feel like let’s take the Kardashians. For example. I don’t think that any, like they have real lives. That’s never seen by anybody. Yeah. So like, they’ve done the opposite where it’s like, they’re, they’ve created. Dis earnest is not a word, but it’s a false conversation about their lives to hide their real lives.

[00:50:36] Jesse: So they don’t have to deal with, let’s say the impacts of fame. I

[00:50:40] Angela: truly just wish people on the internet would do a basic filter of like, if I were actually in front of your face right now, would you actually say that to my face live? If yes. Say it say, like, if you, if you would truly say that to my face and I have the right to respond to you say it to me, but like, if you would feel bad saying it to my face, don’t fucking say that shit.

[00:51:11] Angela: Like, because think about it. Like, if I were to say that to you, would you be happy? Like it’s just like golden rule, right? Like most basic fundamental thing we learn as children is. Don’t be a fucking asshole. If you can’t even be brave enough to have actually said that in real life, you don’t get the right to say that on the internet guys, like.

[00:51:31] Angela: Be kind,

[00:51:32] Jesse: if you wanna dish it, you better be able to take it. Yes, mm-hmm this is the, this is the, the truth.

[00:51:40] Angela: Exactly. And actually, I, I, I wanna wrap this up, but like I actually found there was a difference in like, um, cause I mentioned like all these trolls right in the beginning because I I’m still learning all the social media shit.

[00:51:52] Angela: Right. And so it was like the first kind of wave of things that like really took off for us on, on TikTok. And so. All these people just like came in with like unsolicited opinions. Right. And a lot of them kind of like rude or mean, and then with this Ukraine stuff, the, the recent Ukraine war clips that we put out, I put like, exactly my sources of like where I was drawing this information.

[00:52:14] Angela: And then I wrote on the video kind corrections welcome. And I notice a huge difference in the way that people. Responded with just that little caveat, because then people were like, they acknowledged things like, oh, this is like mostly right, but there are some nuances you didn’t get right here. Let me add some nuance, as opposed to saying like, this is wrong.

[00:52:39] Angela: Blah, blah, blah, which is how people were responding to like my other stuff before. So I think when you acknowledge, like I’m open to feedback, but be kind like people are generally actually nicer about that. Maybe because they realize that we’re human, because we like put that thing in there of like, I’m not just a fucking robot who wants to like receive mean things.

[00:52:59] Angela: Yeah. Be nice to me. If you’re gonna like make corrections. I, I think it makes a difference. It’s kind of interest.

[00:53:05] Jesse: I think it makes sense. I mean, you’re like prompting the person to do something, right. So if we’re talking about, I mean, internet is no social structure. No. Like the way that we think about your life.

[00:53:15] Jesse: But if you want to think of that message as like a reinforcing thing to remind the person like, Hey. You know, you’re here, but like, I would appreciate it if you were still like talking like a real person, not like a crazy person mm-hmm maybe reminded them like, Hey, I cannot just like, blah . Yes, whatever comment I want.

[00:53:36] Jesse: Yeah,

[00:53:36] Angela: exactly. Interesting. All right. Well, on that kind of more uplifting note, transitioning now to the fortune cookie. Closing section. And it’s not exactly a high, high note, but we just wanna acknowledge that, like, everything we’ve talked about today can commute like really heavy. Um, especially like we talked a lot about how this whole.

[00:53:59] Angela: World can impact young people who are still like quite impressionable, um, and how it can have like a really hard impact on self-esteem and like mental health and all that. So I think we just wanted to end on providing a few resources for, um, around anti-bullying depress, you know, people who have suffer from depression or suicidal thoughts, those kinds of things, just to remind you that.

[00:54:25] Angela: you’re not alone. And that this shouldn’t be normalized that you just like accept these things that people are throwing onto you, or like these hard feelings that you’re dealing with. And there are people out there that want to talk to you and help you get through it. But this is specifically for us people, um, national kind of like database for where you can try to find something local to you is stop bullying.gov.

[00:54:52] Angela: and they there’s like a get help now kind of like subpage and you can like find actual resources local to you. Um, so put that out there and then, because I represen. California. Um, there’s one that’s California specific that I found was interesting. I think they actually started it like semi-recently maybe because of the pandemic and realizing like how much of a tool it’s taking on young people.

[00:55:16] Angela: Um, there is a California specific mental health for youth program and it is infl. So in D I N D. EFL F L I X and dfl.com/california. It’s like an actual, like, I think it’s like an online module type thing where they. Walk you through this, this program around mental health, like awareness and like how to deal with these feelings of like difficulty with your mental health, especially during these like hyper cyber times.

[00:55:50] Angela: Yeah. Um, and it’s specifically for California. So if you’re in California and you’re either your parent, or you’re a young person, that’s like dealing with this and you don’t really know how to like approach mental health. Topics, maybe this could be a good program for you, those in my too.

[00:56:06] Jesse: Cool. So I will not rep a location, but rather my L G B T plus mm-hmm friends folks.

[00:56:14] Jesse: Um, the first one, I think a lot of people I’ve heard of, which is just the Trevor project. So it’s just the Trevor project.org. Um, you can reach a counselor, I think, digitally, and you can also call them so, oh, and you can also text them. So if you’re in need of talking to someone. if someone has said something really rude or mean to you, like you can get a hold of a counselor to chat with you right away.

[00:56:37] Jesse: And the second one also, because this has been a huge issue, um, recently with a lot of trans people being like killed and targeted, um, trans lifeline I think is also a great one. So the, the website is just trans likely.org. And it’s the same kind of thing. They’ve got a hotline that you can call for any kind of resources, anything that.

[00:56:56] Jesse: So hopefully these will be helpful to everyone listening. And, um, we hope that even if you are not being bullied, you could spread these resources. Um, if, if you, if you know someone who needs it as well as a listener of ours. Yeah,

[00:57:10] Angela: totally great. Well, man, I feel heavy talking about this, but um, if you have.

[00:57:19] Angela: Comments feedback re uh, experiences that you wanna share related to these topics. You can either email us at tell us where you’re from@gmail.com or you can DMS comment, whatever on our various social media. Um, because, yeah, it’s a, I think it’s something weird that we like all kind of have to deal with now that we live in this like hyper digital hybrid world.

[00:57:45] Angela: Um, so yeah, let us know what you think and come back next week because we’ll have another episode for you then. And until then,

Note: Transcript fully created by automated AI

[00:00:00] Angela: Hey everyone. I’m Angela Lin

[00:00:01] Jesse: And I’m Jesse Lin. And welcome back to another episode of, but where are you really from this week? It is mother’s day weekend and wow. We just had a really interesting hour long conversation with our moms. And now we’re planning on recapping that conversation for you.

[00:00:21] Jesse: The episode’s gonna consist of basically this recap and that interview, which we did all in Mandarin was some shish thrown in. So if you’re able to listen to it, like and understand it, feel free. Go ahead. It’s very interesting. If you’re not, we hope this summary will pick your interest.

[00:00:37] Angela: Yes. And I’m just gonna throw this out there to hold myself accountable.

[00:00:40] Angela: I have high hopes. Subtitling the Chinese full interview in English and uploading that to YouTube, very ambitious endeavor. Um, so maybe it won’t happen, but I’m putting it out in the ether. So hopefully by the time you’re listening to this, if this. Keeps, if I keep this in the edit, it means that it exists.

[00:01:02] Angela: And I encourage all of you to watch the YouTube version of this episode, because then you can watch actually our mamas and us. Yes. And it’ll be subtitled in English. So you can all understand what’s

[00:01:12] Jesse: going on and you can tell us if we look like our parents are not half of our parents. Yeah, that’s true.

[00:01:17] Jesse: Yeah. Yes. Well, okay. So I found this was interesting. We kind of started very at the beginning as we do with any guest, which is kind of like get to know them, introduce themselves. And I felt like both of our parents went like way back. They’re like, I’m from Taiwan. Like my, you know, childhood, like. High school years, like young adult years kind of introduction, which is very interesting.

[00:01:43] Jesse: Cause I’m not sure if that’s like what they thought we were, what they thought we were looking for or like how they would actually introduce themselves to someone. But then again, like, like I feel like I’ve seen my parents introduce themselves to new people at temple and it’s never anything that’s like really detailed.

[00:02:00] Jesse: It’s kind of just like, oh, you know, my name is, this is this like, it’s nice to meet you. Like they don’t really. Much more in death.

[00:02:10] Angela: I think it was two things. I think it was like one, they were kind of primed on what we were looking for, not in that question, but like, because we told them what kind of stuff we would be talking about in this episode.

[00:02:20] Angela: So I think they were kind of like carp before the horse kind of situation. And they’re just like, let me just say hello you everything. Because I don’t know when you’re gonna be asking me these things. Yeah. And they’re not used to. Being interviewed. Yeah, yeah. Either. So then they’re just like, I don’t know, black.

[00:02:33] Angela: And then I think the other was like what you were saying in a previous, in our two year, um, anniversary episode where it’s just like every time. We talked to our parents, there is just like, there’s so much more that comes out than what we expect. So I think it was a little bit of both because definitely like, yes, your mom’s answer.

[00:02:51] Angela: Like, tell me about yourself was so much, I was like, whoa, but every question we asked, I would say, I think both our moms were like giving. A lot of detail. yeah. It’s a lot of detail. That’s a great

[00:03:03] Jesse: question. It’s like, it’s inter I don’t know if people ask, like, I don’t know if they get asked that at all.

[00:03:09] Jesse: It’s not, it’s kind of like the work icebreaker thing. Everyone’s used to that where it’s like, tell me about yourself and like three interesting facts. I don’t know if they have those kind of conversations. So then it’s. A little bit what you said, like, they’re like, oh wait, what do I say, blah, why don’t

[00:03:24] Angela: we talk about like, things that were most surprising or like, um, we didn’t know, because some things like we’ve heard some of those stories mm-hmm um, but like some of them, I was like, what?

[00:03:35] Angela: I didn’t know that. Or like, You didn’t know about my mom or I didn’t know about your mom, for example, you primed your mom on this monkey story. Yes. Y’all. Jesse’s mom grew up with a pet monkey, like among many other pets. And it was like such a bizarre situation because Jesse’s like, tell them about the monkey.

[00:03:54] Angela: And I was like, what is this thing? And then I asked her like, I’m sorry, is it normal to have a pet monkey? And like your, your village or just small town that you came from. And she said, She just doesn’t know, but they always had it when

[00:04:08] Jesse: I tell people that my family is like country bumpkin. Like I don’t think they quite understand what I mean by that.

[00:04:14] Jesse: And it’s very like hillbilly Taiwan kind of situation. Cuz I think our parents came from the same kind of. More rural background, but I, I feel like my parents are more hillbilly

[00:04:29] Angela: kinda well, because your parents are actually from like a different part of

[00:04:33] Jesse: Taiwan. Yeah. They’re like in a really rural

[00:04:35] Angela: part.

[00:04:36] Angela: Yeah, my mom kept saying they were also sh you know, like rural. Yeah, yeah. Like town or whatever. And that’s true. But she was still always part of like, TA pay kind of like boundaries. I guess the implication was just that like, back in the day, TA pay was not built up. So it was also like rural. Yeah. Um, where she.

[00:04:56] Angela: So

[00:04:57] Jesse: it’s a, I think it’s a different, different kind of level because there’s definitely a lot of like still rural areas outside of Taipei. But I remember like where, where my grandparents still live. It used to be extremely difficult to get to, like, it was like a 12 hour drive from Taipei and that it, like, it’s a small.

[00:05:17] Jesse: Island to drive to the middle of it for 12 hours is like ridiculous because there weren’t really great bridges. It was like mountainside roads. So you were just kinda like winding around, uh, forever. It’s changed a lot. Now. It’s much easier to get there, but back then it was like a rural and isolated, I think are the two.

[00:05:34] Jesse: Two things, but, uh, to your point, what did I, what, what, what did I not know? Well, first of all, your mom was very, um, boastful about her athletic prowess. She’s like, yeah, I was the number two long jumper and I was like, you better work bitch. She worked

[00:05:51] Angela: bitch. Yeah. I actually do remember. She used to show, she showed me at some point.

[00:05:56] Angela: Like pictures of her doing like mid, mid jump in track and stuff. So I did remember that, but it, it was kind of surprising that it like became such a like self that’s amazing theme of the conversation. Cuz she doesn’t like talked about that in a really long time and she like doesn’t exercise at all anymore.

[00:06:14] Angela: So I’m like, where did that go? yeah.

[00:06:17] Jesse: Wait. She’s like how she’s like not taller. Is she taller than you? You’re not.

[00:06:21] Angela: You’re taller than her. Well, She is no, she is taller than me because, and I got beef with them because of the fact that I’m shorter than both of them. No, she, but she’s not tall. She’s only five

[00:06:31] Jesse: one.

[00:06:31] Jesse: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s crazy. Unless everyone else must have been like a midget.

[00:06:36] Angela: Okay. TBH though. I’m really good at jumping. Um, because actually I was just talking about this with someone else, which is a, a total, a different kind of jumping mm-hmm . Well, I did track as well in high school, but I didn’t do jumping, but we like tried it once and I.

[00:06:49] Angela: I wasn’t bad, but, um, in CrossFit there’s like a sort of jumping where you’re jumping vertically up. Mm-hmm like, you, you have like boxes that you jump on. And there were like, there would be once in a while where they’d like, do a like box jump challenge and they’d like stack ’em higher and higher and you add like more things and, and you’re like gauging by like the number of inches above the ground you’re jumping.

[00:07:12] Angela: And like, I remember I was able to jump like a pretty fucking guy, especially. How short I am. so maybe I, uh, I got some of her jumping jeans. I don’t

[00:07:20] Jesse: actually know the body type for long jumpers. Is it like gymnast where it’s like sh you know, short and compact muscle? I

[00:07:27] Angela: have idea. I mean, that doesn’t make sense to me in like, uh, just like envisioning it, because I would imagine having long legs just means you can jump farther because your leg span is just like,

[00:07:38] Jesse: maybe in any case, um, other surprising things.

[00:07:42] Jesse: What did you want? She said she also inherited, like, being good at cooking.

[00:07:46] Angela: No, no, no. She said that she’s just okay. At cooking. Oh, okay. But she inherited her singing skills. Oh yeah. That from my grandpa. See your mom sing. Oh, she loved to sing. That girl loved to sing. Um, you come back to Taiwan with us. She got a karaoke machine in her home.

[00:08:04] Angela: She loves to sing. She is good at singing. Okay. But she does this kind of like falsetto thing as her like main singing. It’s very Taiwanese. I would say like that era is Taiwanese kind of singing, but she’s good. She’s good at it. I guess I just didn’t know. Her dad was also good at singing cuz I didn’t know.

[00:08:21] Angela: My grandpa, he, like she mentioned, he already passed away. Um, by the time I was born so well.

[00:08:27] Jesse: On my mom’s side. I didn’t know that she didn’t, that she like moved here and then married my dad.

[00:08:34] Angela: Yeah. That was

[00:08:35] Jesse: surprising. I was like, wait,

[00:08:36] Angela: what? Yeah. You said previously that they were just like, they knew each other from the, the rural place that they grew up and just like.

[00:08:44] Angela: Decided to get married.

[00:08:45] Jesse: Yeah, she did say that, but my timeline is off because they didn’t get married. I don’t think they get married in Taiwan. They got married in the us

[00:08:54] Angela: apparent. Yeah. Y’all well, let’s backtrack. Both our parents, both our moms. We asked like, how did you meet dad? And like, what did you think about them?

[00:09:01] Angela: And they both were like, man, no impression.

[00:09:03] Jesse: They were like, I don’t remember anything from the first time that I met them. And I was like,

[00:09:08] Angela: Just like unimpressed, unimpressed. I think the reality is that like, we approached relationships very differently now in this generation than their generations, basically both of them met in like very similar fashions, which is just like, I was introduced to him by like friends or like coworkers, whatever.

[00:09:25] Angela: And there was no impression because they just like. That’s how they met them, was not with the intent of marrying them or dating them. It was just like, we got introduced to like know each other and then it was basically like, well, you it’s around the time to get married. Like these are the people, you know, and like, he’s fine.

[00:09:43] Angela: So like, here

[00:09:43] Jesse: we go. And what was interesting is that like, my mom did at least admit like the forces of attraction are the same. She’s basically saying like, you look at the person and you’re like, are they attractive? Do you have a good job? So it’s not like that crazy, but it’s just like, they have much less options than we do now.

[00:10:01] Angela: And we didn’t know that both our moms wanted to work in broadcasting of some sort as their like dreamed of my mom wanted

[00:10:09] Jesse: to be a tour guide.

[00:10:10] Angela: Oh, a tour. Oh, sorry. I got

[00:10:12] Jesse: confused. Your mom wanted to be a broadcast

[00:10:14] Angela: writer. I’m very confused. She said director, but I don’t know that’s what that is. But anyway, she wanted to work in like a television station, TV station, which I didn’t.

[00:10:25] Angela: I was like, we are running too long. I cannot plug this in now, but I was like, oh, isn’t it ironic that then your daughter worked in TV later? Cuz I did. I did work in TV when I was in New York. But yeah, I, I didn’t know. Your mom wanted, yeah. Your mom sounds like she really wants to travel. I feel like you gotta just like throw her some cash so that she can like go traveling.

[00:10:44] Jesse: Well, the things that she doesn’t like leaving my dad alone, that’s, that’s the main thing it’s otherwise she would definitely go back to Taiwan for, even with the quarantine, but she doesn’t wanna leave him alone for like a two long period of time. But, um, no. Yeah. I’ve like offer. I mean, like I might offer a serious I’m stuff.

[00:11:01] Jesse: Spacious. Yeah. Um, like she went on a, she went on a tour a few years ago to Austria Switzer or something. I paid for that bitch. I’m not, I’m not bitch. I’m hung.

[00:11:16] Angela: Yeah. I wonder if it was the same one my parents want, like, I know they didn’t go at the same time, but like, they literally did that same trip, like Austria and like

[00:11:25] Jesse: random shit.

[00:11:25] Jesse: Yeah. It was really funny because my mom was like, I’m going on a Taiwanese tour with your aunts. So my aunts also went it. Was very bizarre because she went on a tour from a completely different country coming from us. Mm-hmm to visit a completely different country. That’s

[00:11:40] Angela: what, that’s what my parents do.

[00:11:42] Angela: Yeah. That’s what I mean by Chinese bus tours. It’s always run by Taiwanese people, but I just call it

the

[00:11:45] Jesse: Chinese bus tour. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think the main, main concern about. Sponsoring them to go somewhere is just that they kind of need to be chap owned at this point. So you have to find someone that will kind of like safely take them to certain places.

[00:11:59] Jesse: Although, like, I don’t think my parents are as helpless as they like paint themselves to be. Cuz they’re always like, we don’t know what to do. We don’t know, you know where to go, what to see. I’m like, I don’t, I don’t know. I think. To figure it out. Like I left them alone for a day here in the city and

[00:12:12] Angela: they were fine.

[00:12:13] Angela: My parents liked to be shuttled around, but my dad likes to have freedom. Like, because with our whole wedding trip, we’d like showed them around Spain and we’d like, did the whole thing. Like, they didn’t have to think about anything and we just like planned it all. But my dad likes to walk, so he’d just be like, okay, peace out.

[00:12:28] Angela: I like woke up by for three hours. I’m gonna walk around the city and like check out. Hey listeners, wondering how you can support us. The biggest way is by increasing our visibility by following us on Instagram at where are you from pod on TikTok at, but where are you really from subscribing to our YouTube channel under, but where are you really from podcast rating and reviewing us on apple podcasts and telling your friends the more people we can get to listen to the show, the more we can continue spotlighting different perspectives and stories.

[00:12:58] Angela: And if you feel so inclined, we’re also accepting donations@buymeacoffee.com slash where are you from? Thanks. Y’all. What else? My mom, um, I did not know. First of all, I did not know that I knew that she did night school, but I thought that was just, I didn’t know. That was like so much of her education. I didn’t know.

[00:13:18] Angela: That

[00:13:18] Jesse: was like a

[00:13:18] Angela: system. It’s like a thing. Yeah. So it. Apparently we learned that there is both night, school and day school for high school and college. Yes. Um, or I don’t know if she also is in middle school, but like, it’s like a thing that like the school system can be broken up into day and night shifts.

[00:13:36] Angela: And the night school’s like five to 10:00 PM. So she said she would like take the train because she didn’t live in the exact city where the school was. She would like take the train. and walk half an hour after getting off the train to get to the school and then do that same thing on the way back, even though class ended at 10 and I was like, isn’t that like sketchy?

[00:13:54] Angela: And she was like, no,

[00:13:55] Jesse: it’s stupid different times, man, different times. Uh, she also said that night night school was for students with like slightly lower. Scoring entry exams. I’m like, take me to the, I hate, I hated going to school early in the morning, night school for me.

[00:14:08] Angela: Nah, , I’ll take that normal school.

[00:14:11] Angela: given that normal school

[00:14:13] Jesse: night school for me. Um, I’m trying to think what else they mentioned. I, I do remember cuz my, my mom, um, has talked about her parents before, but I love it every time when she’s like, when she. Us that or tells me that the roles are reversed. So like, normally it’s like in a traditional Asian family, like the dad is a disciplinarian and the mom is kind of like the more relaxed individual.

[00:14:37] Jesse: And she is like, that’s not my experience at all. Like your grandfather was like really chill. And your grandmother was the one that like wore the pants and the relationship. But

[00:14:45] Angela: I don’t understand how that’s the traditional setup because at least like our. Upbringing the like tiger mom stereotype is what it was.

[00:14:54] Angela: Yeah. So that implies that mom was always the strict one.

[00:14:57] Jesse: I think the tiger mom thing is like a newish thing. I feel like it’s always been like the dad, like my, my parents, like my dad’s more so the disciplinarian and my mom’s more so like the. The chill one,

[00:15:13] Angela: not in this family, reverse for you, like comparing and contrasting our mom.

[00:15:19] Angela: Something that surprised me was like, when we were asking like, uh, about their immigration story and that experience very D very I, yeah, super different. And like, honestly, I was kind of expecting. Both of them to be more like your mom, where she was very open and honest with us, basically like being really lonely when she first moved here and like, not understanding the language.

[00:15:38] Angela: I think she, her analogy was like, I felt like I was like both deaf and mute because I couldn’t understand anything. And like, she didn’t start feeling better about her situation until she had you and then had kind of like a purpose. Yeah. It was all you Baba. Whereas my mom was. Oh, no, I wasn’t lonely at all.

[00:15:56] Angela: I was like, oh, this is fine. And I mean, I didn’t think about it, but I guess it makes sense that she was like, because yeah, she already had my brother who was already like six or seven at the time. So she was, had her hands full with like raising him too much to be lonely. Um, and that makes sense as your mom said, that was the turning point for her when she started to get less.

[00:16:16] Angela: Lonely was when she had you. So

[00:16:19] Jesse: yeah, the timeline’s a little bit fuzzy for me as to like the immigration and then like when I was there, but I could imagine that’s the case because like, as she mentioned, you had to find a job and then you just kind of had to do whatever you could with the language skills that you had.

[00:16:34] Jesse: And it’s more than likely, like, I’m just thinking. My dad’s family and how I know all of them, almost everyone was probably working. So it wasn’t like you had a chance to just like, hang out with somebody and like acclimate. So it probably was like a really lonely experience because she probably didn’t have it.

[00:16:49] Jesse: She didn’t really have anything to do. Yeah, I know we talked to, which would be really, really, really isolating. Yeah.

[00:16:56] Angela: Yeah. So definitely like props to all the immigrant mamas. Yeah. Who made that journey? Even if my mom tried to make it sound like she didn’t have,

[00:17:04] Jesse: I’m sure she did, you know? Yeah. But it’s kind of like the whole, like I was gonna say like the, no, um, no impression of our dads, like ask me again in like 30 years, if I had impression of my partner at that point, and I might be like, Yeah, cuz you just like, you’re just like older and like maybe you just literally don’t remember.

[00:17:25] Jesse: And yeah, I also feel like the further away you are from like a trauma. The less traumatic it is for you. And you might look back on that period and be like, you know what? It was actually fine.

[00:17:36] Angela: I think there’s also a little bit of like trying to stay strong kind of thing, you know? Yeah. Like it’s still, it’s still not normal to like show your emotion and vulnerability.

[00:17:45] Angela: So I was because my mom’s whole thing was like the whole time. She was just like, no, I didn’t regret it at all because it was like the best for my children. And like that’s all that matters is like, yeah. Doing the best for them. And like, I don’t. That was a lie. I just think that maybe she’s like suppressing some actual feelings of like loneliness or sadness that she probably had it that, but were outweighed by this like sense of duty or whatever.

[00:18:10] Jesse: I do think it really shows how centered we are in our parents’ lives. Like you, it’s not a surprise because we are like the reason. At least for your, I think your mom has stated very clearly. Like you guys are like the reason that she, one of the big reasons that she came here, but to hear someone describe their hopes and dreams as your life is very different from just understand, like, hearing that tangentially through stories and pressure, like to hear someone actually say that your life is like why they did something.

[00:18:44] Jesse: It’s surprising because I don’t know if I would for anybody else, you know, because now it’s kind of like the whole judge is like, you gotta take care of yourself. Like not, not, not that you have to take care of yourself to be the point to the point where you’re like, Obsessively selfish, but like, you wouldn’t sacrifice your own self needs to service the self, uh, the needs of someone else.

[00:19:11] Jesse: Um, so it’s like a very different kind of like life perspective. Yeah,

[00:19:15] Angela: yeah, yeah. Which is probably why we’re constantly struggling with this whole, like, Am I living my life for me or for my parents thing, because they did give up so much for us. So it is, I mean, and it’s the struggle we’re dealing with constantly, which is like, I think we’ve come to terms with the fact that we do need to like value ourselves and what we want and like live our lives.

[00:19:38] Angela: But we can find other ways where we like give back to them and like, you know, show that gratitude without having to like give up everything that is us and our free will just. Pay that back to them. And

[00:19:51] Jesse: honestly, like the more that I talk to my parents, the more I’m like, why do you, why did you want me to live this like rigid life?

[00:19:57] Jesse: Because I’m living the life that I feel like you wanted to live the way that you Des you know, if you had the options, the means that’s what you would’ve wanted to be, what you wanted to do. Mm-hmm so I feel more and more so, as you mentioned, like less and less slaved to this like, idea of what. What I need to be in order to please my parents and more so vibing with the fact that I’m kind of living my life in accordance to maybe how they would have wanted to, if they had the means and the opportunity.

[00:20:29] Jesse: Which I think is like live your

[00:20:30] Angela: best life. Yeah. Yeah, no, that’s totally true because the kind of like recurring theme in a lot of the way that they answered are questions about like, what did you wanna do? And like, what did you actually do? And whatever. A lot of it just ended up being like, whatever gave me like the most stability and like, I just got whatever would.

[00:20:48] Angela: You know, make sure that I could function and like provide and blah, blah, blah. It was all center around this like stability theme. But we did ask them the, like the pipe dream stuff. And like you said, like they, they all had the dreams, same dreams. Yeah. Yeah. But TV, broadcaster, tour guide, like things that are a bit more whimsical and like not necessarily tied to the, just like traditional stability type jobs.

[00:21:11] Angela: Yeah. And to your point, it’s like, If we are past the point of stability, if we like already have stability for ourselves, why shouldn’t we shoot for the things that seem. A little bit more whimsical to like those kind of more stringent yeah. Viewpoints, if that is what they would’ve wanted to do anyway, if they had

[00:21:29] Jesse: stability.

[00:21:30] Jesse: Yeah, I agree. And at the same time, these conversations give us insight as to why they are so concerned with stability because they didn’t really have that. So it’s always this kind of like fear of you. Progeny falling back into where they came from. Although like, let’s be real. Like, I don’t think that that would ever happen.

[00:21:51] Jesse: Like even if I were working like a McDonald’s job, I think the quality of life would still be like significantly better than what they were describing. But yeah, it’s definitely eye opening. Like I, I think I mentioned to you, so I it’s just like crazy how much. Change that our parents have lived through.

[00:22:08] Jesse: Yeah. My mom

[00:22:08] Angela: talked about kids, not having shoes, going to school like that they normally wore, like, I don’t know, were barefoot or had little like yeah. Wooden thongs or whatever. Yeah. Well, I don’t wanna belabor this because we do have like the full interview with them that I hope. To subtitle, um, for the YouTube version.

[00:22:27] Angela: So let’s wrap it up with our fortune cookie recap of what their current hopes and dreams are. And gosh, a little bit about them before we sign off. Um, so moving into our sweet treat, uh, we basically ask our moms, like, what are your hopes and dreams now, um, that we heard earlier what your childhood ones were, but what about now as like adults and your.

[00:22:50] Angela: Planted firmly in the us and blah, blah. And what gave me hope was that even though like a lot of the initial conversation was sent around us and like providing for us both the ways that our par our mom’s answer was about kind of like them. I mean, I was like, partially in my mom’s answer, basically, my mom was like, oh, I want my kids to like, live near me so that we can spend time together.

[00:23:12] Angela: But then she also was like, and I wanna like go back to traveling with your dad, um, because they did that a lot. Before the pandemic. And that was like helpful for me, because I think she tends to be like a hermit. So it was actually like a like surprising thing to hear. And I’m glad she’s like expressed that because I do want her to like, get out more and like experience more things and like, you know, just live her best life.

[00:23:34] Angela: They’re my parents at least are retired. So like, they shouldn’t be held back if possible. So I was happy to hear her kind of like hope for something that was like for herself,

[00:23:44] Jesse: you. Yeah. Um, it’s funny because you, I we’ve, we’ve discussed this so many times where our parents are basically like flip flop personalities.

[00:23:51] Jesse: Like my dad maps to your mom and your dad maps to my mom in terms of like chillness and gregariousness. So like, I know my mom wants to travel. Like I know she wants to go places, but I also know that she really doesn’t like leaving my dad alone for too long by himself. And he’s the one that has. Is more hermit, like, and less likely to go somewhere.

[00:24:13] Jesse: So I’ve yet to crack exactly how to work that, but you know, like, no one’s gonna say no to a free trip. So it’s just about finding the right thing that will get. I’m interested. And, um, I think the good thing is like having more conversations, like this will get me closer to what that looks like, but yeah, my mom said the same thing is just like see her more.

[00:24:36] Jesse: And honestly, like with the current situation being. What it is. I probably can, especially if air, airplane tickets are like still not super expensive mm-hmm I could probably go like for a few days over the weekend, like stuff like that. So yeah. She expressed a desire to see me more

[00:24:55] Angela: and she just wanted to like live health healthy and happy in general.

[00:24:59] Angela: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and then we ended on a fond forced. I love you session with them because we ABCs don’t get that shit. So we forced

[00:25:10] Jesse: it. I will say my mom does hug me and tell me, she loves me alive. You guys are socially. And my mom is boy.

[00:25:18] Angela: We, we do it a little bit more now, but I’m definitely the instigator of that.

[00:25:22] Angela: Or I’m like, I need this,

[00:25:24] Jesse: I think they’ll get more used to it. It’s just, it’s kind of like the acclimation. It’s the same thing with my dad. The last time I said goodbye to him, I tried to give him a hug and he was like, oh yeah, that’s just a hug.

[00:25:36] Angela: I’m your son. yeah.

[00:25:38] Jesse: Yeah. They’re just, yeah, they’re just not used to like that kind of like physical.

[00:25:44] Jesse: I cause I don’t remember him ever hugging my grandparents. So that kind of like physical intimacy is just not there.

[00:25:51] Angela: Well, listeners, we learned a ton about our moms during this conversation. We had a lot of fun. So here’s your daily motivation to go ask your parents about their lives. Because I think you’ll learn a lot more than you think you’re going to, and they’ll be so happy to share with you.

[00:26:07] Angela: Yeah. So do it and tell us what you learn. Email us that tell us where you’re from@gmail.com or hit us up on social media. Let us know what you find out about your parents or let us know what was the most heartwarming thing you learned from our session with our mamas and happy mother’s day to all of the mommys out.

[00:26:26] Angela: And come back next week for another episode. And until then bitches.

Note: Transcript fully created by automated AI

[00:00:00] Angela: Hey everyone. I’m Angela Lin

[00:00:02] Jesse: And I’m Jesse Lin. And welcome back. To another episode of, but where are you really? From this week? We’re putting Angela in the hot seat. Again, I will be the interviewer and she will be the interviewee as we dive into the world of past life regression. So we’ve definitely, yeah.

[00:00:21] Jesse: Woo. We’ve definitely talked a lot about like spirituality and exploring all of that. So Angela recently did a deeper. dive. I, I don’t know. Deeper dive is the right word, deeper dive, I guess, into that, by going to have her past life regressed so that she has knowledge of it. I’m not sure if that’s the correct way to term it, but maybe I’ll kick it over to you for you to explain what past life regression is for those of our listeners who don’t know what.

[00:00:54] Angela: Yeah. So basically it’s like hypnotherapy. So I think most people have heard of hypnotherapy AKA using hypnosis as a form of therapy. So it’s like, you know, this is commonly used for people who have any sort of like trauma that they’re trying to kind of overcome, or like sometimes police forces use hypnotherapist to on like potential witnesses of crimes to try.

[00:01:21] Angela: Dig up memories that maybe, yeah. I, although it’s a little, like, it’s a little that does sounds inadmissible. no, well, it it’s kind of like the gray area because okay. People can people argue that sometimes they feel like the memories could be manipulated. Like maybe it was like planted a memory or whatever, but like, theoretically, the idea is that when you are under hypnosis, you’re not kind of.

[00:01:49] Angela: Bogged down by the exterior things. And like we, as humans do repress a lot of memories to kind of like protect ourselves, especially from trauma. So it makes sense that like, if you remove that layer of like self-awareness, um, of like waking life, quote unquote, right. Um, when you’re in this hypnotic state, then like you should theoretically be able to remember more things than like.

[00:02:15] Angela: Normal conscious mind would. Um, so that’s like normal hypnotherapy. And so like, oftentimes these are going into like the past, right. Or I think all the time they’re going into the past of like things that happened. So like, I guess the easiest way to think about it is like, you’re going so far in the past that you’re like going into a life that isn’t your current life.

[00:02:40] Angela: Um, so it. Only like certain therapists actually are specialized in doing this, but it is slightly different because you’re not trying to like focus on your current life. You’re trying to take you out of like this self and find. Like other past versions of yourselves and the experiences and memories that you have from that.

[00:03:04] Angela: And it is to help you like, learn more about yourself and also like maybe there are blockages that you carry into your current life because of things that happened in the past, in other lives. That’s the theory. Um, and something, well, I I’ll bring like two extra pieces of color into this. One is like we mentioned that we previously talked about spirituality and like, in that first episode we talked about religion, spirituality.

[00:03:31] Angela: I mentioned that. One of the books that like really, um, made a big impact on me was one called journey of souls. And that was written by a hypnotherapist named Dr. Michael Newton. He already passed away, but before he passed away, he had created this Institute to teach his method of past life regression.

[00:03:52] Angela: And this other regression called life between lives. We can get into if we want, but whatever. Anyways, so he had created this Institute to teach his method. Um, and so I, at the time I remember you asking me, like, would you ever do that? And I was like, no, I’m so scared. I would, I, I don’t know what I would dig up.

[00:04:10] Angela: And at the time I, I did believe that, but I think like enough things had happened since that point. Like I did a lot of psychedelic since that point. And like, I’ve, I’ve done a lot more work on like, you know, self growth and blah, blah, that. More open to the idea, but I wanted to find someone who was affiliated with that Institute.

[00:04:31] Angela: If I couldn’t do it with Michael Newton himself, because he already passed away. So that was kind of like, okay, this is like where it comes full circles. Like that book changed my perception of things. And I wanted to kind of like dig into that with someone affiliated with him. And then the other piece is.

[00:04:49] Angela: Um, the woman that I ended up doing this session with her website, her whole like spiel, um, something I really liked, um, was that basically like everyone’s on a different. Spectrum of the woo woo factor, right? Like how much you believe in like spirituality and blah, blah, soul life, all of that past lives, reincarnation.

[00:05:12] Angela: And it doesn’t really matter. Like her, her thesis was like, whether or not you believe that this stuff was real. Like, you could believe that this is all just like made up imaginary shit that your brain made up kind of like dreaming, right? Like you’re just like, oh, I’m just gonna like make up things, but she’s.

[00:05:32] Angela: Who cares because if in the end, what you experience and what we work through in that session helps you unblock something that is holding you back in your current life. Does it really matter if it was real or not? So like the that’s the interpretation for the skeptics, right? And obviously for like, people like me who do believe that this shit is real, then it’s like, I have additional benefits that I get from it.

[00:05:56] Angela: But at the most skeptic level, that’s kind of her herself is like, what do you have to lose? Like it, if you know, you’ve had like chronic pain or like this fear that you can’t understand why you have this fear or like a version of something. And then. Discover something in the session and you are able to overcome it.

[00:06:14] Angela: Does it matter if you believe that it was real or not like that past life? If you are cured of the thing?

[00:06:20] Jesse: Yeah. Yeah. That’s a really interesting point because like, um, what’s that other book that we both read, that we were like, um, by Michael, how to change your mind. Yeah. How to change your mind. And yeah, there was a part of it where it was like somebody was taking mushrooms for kind of palliative care.

[00:06:36] Jesse: And even though this person was strictly an atheist, he still, there was some kind of spiritual element of taking that, that helped him pass or make peace with the fact that he was gonna pass. So there I, yeah, it’s interesting that there is this placebo. If you wanna call it that I do wanna make two completely off topic comments.

[00:06:56] Jesse: We are ketchup and mustard colored and your eye. You’re really good today.

[00:07:02] Angela: I love it. Thank you. I think I extra winged it today, maybe. So it looks really nice. Thank you. We are catch up and mustard. What happened? . Uh,

[00:07:15] Jesse: it was not coordinated y’all no. Um, okay. So you mentioned, you mentioned your previous experiences with psychedelics opened you up to do this kind of experience, but what was the impetus behind it?

[00:07:28] Jesse: Like why did you actually want to go and do the past life regression?

[00:07:32] Angela: Well, I was always interested in it as we discussed, but I think, um, like I had had multiple recent psyche. Um, therapeutic experiences leading up to my decision to like wanna book a session that kind of let like open that door. So I actually booked, so I did the session and Ramone did the session as well, a separate session.

[00:07:57] Angela: Um, same day though. In February, but I booked the sessions in like November or December. So I, like, we had done two back to back. I think I talked about this in the most recent, like, um, psychedelics episode, but I did two back to back psychedelic. Things in like two days, one was like the mushrooms or psilocybin and, um, time massage mix thing.

[00:08:23] Angela: And then next day was like a ketamine breathwork session. Um, and in both of those sessions, I was exploring a lot of things as, as one does in psychedelics, but like, um, for me, a big part was kind of like loss of identity or like retransform my identity because it was around the time that I was going to be quitting my corporate job and like transitioning to full time on this and like future with.

[00:08:50] Angela: Family and blah, blah, blah. And it was like, it rocked me pretty deeply. Right. Of like, who am I, if not, like my default is say, like, I’m a marketer. Like I work at this company, you know, like that’s like my identity. And so I was like, what am I without that? Um, and I worked through a lot of stuff in those sessions, but.

[00:09:10] Angela: Definite moments in both sessions where I was like, trying to get more clarity on, like, for example, with this podcast. Right. I was like, I generally like have a good like vision for what I want to want us to do with it. But there, I was trying to get like more details. Right. I was like, can you gimme like more specifics about like what I should be doing beyond this like general direction?

[00:09:36] Angela: And I was getting kind of like blanks where like, I. Specifically, remember, during the ketamine session, there was one like really visual kind of moment where, um, it was almost like a quick sand and like mud that was like moving very actively moving. And there was like a huge spotlight over it. Like a search light.

[00:09:59] Angela: Um, and it was kind of like, okay, what am I looking for? What am I looking for? And then there was like, it just like never found anything. And so the, the like message that came through to me was like, because it was right after I asked the questions about like, what am I giving more specifics about like what I’m supposed to do career wise or podcast wise, blah, blah, blah.

[00:10:20] Angela: And the message I got from that was like, we’re not gonna tell you, like there’s more to be had. But it’s on you to figure that out. And I think I mentioned this with like also why I start, I was on board to do the Vipasana meditation retreat. Um, but we talked about that. That was not. What I got out of that meditation retreat at all.

[00:10:42] Angela: Like it wasn’t the point was not to self reflect, so I didn’t get those answers. So I think it was just like, I had already been primed to be like, okay, the question is still there. It’s on me to discover this. What other like drastic, if you will, ways. Can I like force myself to find the answers to these things?

[00:11:04] Angela: Um, like, how can I open myself up in other ways? So I think it just like lent itself to having me finally be ready to like, explore that kind of past life progression that I was already interested in, but was kind of afraid to do previously. But I think at that point I was like, I’ve done so much stuff already.

[00:11:26] Angela: Like what do I afraid of with, with this, if I yeah. Feel that there’s value to be had.

[00:11:34] Jesse: So. Was it kind of like you were hoping to look back at your past lives, what they were doing or what their characteristics were like in order to try and inform your future decision or

[00:11:46] Angela: what was sorry? No, it’s, uh, it was kind of like a convoluted answer.

[00:11:52] Angela: So I didn’t actually go into the past life session to answer that question, but because I had all of these like really. Therapeutic self growth experiences leading up. Um, I, I was open to the idea of like trying more different, like extreme self growth. Okay. Okay. Things. Um, but yeah, it’s not like you can search to the past necessarily.

[00:12:24] Angela: Yeah. To know what you should do in the future. It was more. that I think that’s why I did the VI pasta, which didn’t end up giving me the answers I was hoping for, but it was still like a really great experience. I’m not, I don’t regret anything about, but then I was just like, my mind was more open to like trying.

[00:12:42] Angela: Different things that I’ve been interested in anyway.

[00:12:46] Jesse: Got it. Got it. That makes sense. So I guess walk us through the process of past life regression, kind of just like the logistics of it, um, was signing up for it. Difficult. Did you have to do any kind of prep work? Um, anything before even actually getting into the session with the hypno, the.

[00:13:06] Angela: Yeah. Well, I do wanna caveat that like similar to if you’re considering psychedelic therapies or anything like this, like do your research because like you’re putting yourself in other people’s hands to like, get really vulnerable with. And like, if you don’t know them, Prior, you know, they’re essentially strangers.

[00:13:29] Angela: So like, I, that’s a big reason why I wanted to find someone who was affiliated with a Michael Newton Institute already, so that I felt a like better sense of security with. This person. So I would say the first step was like, I did a lot of research to find the right person. Um, so I found this woman in Washington.

[00:13:51] Angela: We happened to be going to that state anyway in February for work retreat slash vacation situation. Um, and. I had read. It was, it was kind of a mix of like, she was in the directory of like she graduated, graduated from, she was like certified through this Institute. And also she had like Google and Yelp reviews of like recent ones of people being like, I just had my session like last week or whatever, and like changed my life, blah, blah, blah.

[00:14:19] Angela: So I was like, okay, she seems cool. And I went on her website, watched videos of her talking and stuff, and it was like, okay, this seems like legit. Um, She was hard to book. I don’t know if this is just like her or like everyone who does this kind of stuff, but she, she must very good. It’s is probably why she’s like hard to book because, um, yeah, I booked in like November, December and like February.

[00:14:45] Angela: Um, honestly, like I, when I reached out to her, she was like, I don’t really have openings to like March or April. And I was like, well, we’re gonna be in Washington. We’re not. We’re not permanently in Washington. Usually we’re gonna be there in February. Is there any way you can like slot us in? And she, she like did us a favor essentially to like move us up.

[00:15:05] Angela: Nice. Nice. Um, and I can talk about this if you want later. But the, the other thing I mentioned, the life between lives, um, is like a slightly different version of this. And I booked it with her as a follow up in August, but I booked it like. like a month ago. She’s like, so booked. She’s like,

[00:15:24] Jesse: wait, but you are not gonna be here in August, right?

[00:15:27] Angela: No, but she, um, she actually does zoom now. Oh, okay. She tried to make us do zoom for the past life one, but I was like, I don’t even know you yet. I don’t. I wanna, like, I prefer an in person. Yeah. And then after we did it in person, I was like, okay. I like vibe with you. And I could like, see it. She got it.

[00:15:45] Angela: Yeah. She’s shifting everything to zoom. so

[00:15:48] Jesse: the value extraction from the session, the sessions don’t have to be consecutive. Basically you can extract value from just having a singular session with the

[00:15:58] Angela: hip. Yes. Okay. Yeah. It could be singular or it could be recurring. It’s kind of up to you or not recurring, but like multiple.

[00:16:06] Angela: Um, it depends on what you’re trying to work on. So like, um, you just like with psychedelics, you need to come in with. Some sort of intention of like what you’re trying to explore, um, so that it can better focus what you’re like, which past lives. So like the thesis, right? Like whether you believe it or not thesis is that every soul reign incarnates like almost countless times, not, not really countless, but like a lot of times to try to like perfect yourself.

[00:16:36] Angela: And so. There are a lot of past lives that you could be drawing from. So if you just kind of go in and like, I just wanna see, like, who knows what you’ll end up exploring. Yeah. But if you’re like, for example, if this is not what I explored, but if I was like, what’s up with my fear of water mm-hmm do I have a deeper thing?

[00:16:56] Angela: I, I have like a specific memory from when I was 13, but like, maybe there’s a deeper thing. That’s like impacting that than, you know, the past lives that I would be exploring. Be only the ones like relevant to that, as opposed to just like any thing. Um, so you have to go in with intentions, um, going back to your question.

[00:17:16] Angela: Prep work. Yes. She had some prep work basically. Like I’d never been hypnotized before. So there is a little bit of, um, prep work prior where she has some videos where, um, essentially it’s her voice over like calming music. It’s you practicing being hypnotized, you can apparently do like self hypnosis, which is what those recordings are, because you are kind of triggering yourself to be hypnotized.

[00:17:41] Angela: And it was kind of crazy, cuz I was like, oh I did it like, whoa. Um, cuz even in her recordings, she was like, even if you like, don’t meet with me anymore. Like self hypnosis is a really like strong tool to have because you can essentially like relax yourself, like get yourself out of your head and like just stresses of daily life or.

[00:18:01] Angela: Few minutes at a time to like, you know, 20 minutes or less. Um, it’s almost like meditation, but like different. Um, so she had us fill in forms of like what we wanna explore and then also listen and practice to like three, I think videos of self-hypnosis so that ultimately it’s easier when you’re in the session with her to be hypnotized and the point being.

[00:18:29] Angela: your time is limited. You’re spending money on this shit also. Um, so like you wanna be able to get as deep as possible and if it takes you too long to like relax to be hypnotized, because ultimately hypnosis, you’re still awake and you’re still aware of everything. So you’re just letting your body get as relaxed as possible that it can like shut down.

[00:18:52] Angela: Normal stuff and just focus on like brain, like connecting with her voice and like answering the questions that you’re trying to do. So if you practice it a little bit ahead of time, it just like goes faster when you’re actually in the session with her. But that was largely the prep work.

[00:19:11] Angela: Hey listeners, wondering how you can support us. The biggest way is by increasing our visibility by following us on Instagram at where are you from pod on TikTok at, but where are you really from subscribing to our YouTube channel under, but where are you really from podcast rating and reviewing us on apple podcasts and telling your friends the more people we can get to listen to the show, the more we can continue spotlighting different perspectives and stories.

[00:19:34] Angela: And if you feel so inclined, we’re also accepting donations@buymeacoffee.com slash where are you from? Thanks. Y’all

[00:19:43] Jesse: makes sense. Yeah. Um, would you mind sharing what your intention was going into the session?

[00:19:49] Angela: Yeah. Yes and no. I mean, yes. Um, I mean, we’ve talked about like dating and relationship stuff. I still had, like, you know, I I’ve had some like blockages around intimacy my whole life, I would say.

[00:20:05] Angela: And I think we’ve, we’ve explored this topic. I think a lot of it does come from like cultural upbringing of like views around sex taboo, blah, blah, blah. I think that has a big impact. But I was like, I wonder if there’s more here, like maybe it’s not just a me in this life thing. Maybe there is like, Recurring stuff that hopefully I can remove.

[00:20:26] Angela: So that was like the main topic for me is like, I didn’t know for sure if there was anything was just like, if there is something let’s like nix that shit because I don’t need more shit dragging me down. Um, so that was my main theme.

[00:20:40] Jesse: Makes sense. Thank you for sharing. Sure. Um, would you walk us through what the actual session is like?

[00:20:48] Angela: Yeah. Yeah. It’s actually quite interesting because you can find out all of this on. Many on YouTube and like on many people’s who do this as websites and stuff. It’s like almost not a secret, like this stuff sounds so like mysterious and like, um, behind a veil, but they actually just tell you straight up, like what’s gonna happen and it’s not a secret.

[00:21:12] Angela: So essentially. You go in and you sit in this like very comfortable Lazyboy recliner chair, essentially. Cuz I just want you to be like, as relaxed as possible, you’re wearing an eye mask just like you would with um, psychedelic, because you’re trying to turn inward. Right. And the first I would say probably 30 minutes or so 30 to 45 minutes.

[00:21:34] Angela: She, well, my hypnotherapist was a woman, so she was just kind of like guiding me through. Relaxing myself and essentially hypnotizing me, but like, you can think of it as just like a guided meditation almost because she was basically like, okay, now, like, you know, get comfortable. And like, um, she had specific things where it was like, I think the first step is.

[00:22:01] Angela: she asks you to picture like one of your favorite places, like somewhere that makes you really happy and like really visualize yourself being there. And then I think she, she does like other things while you’re in this happy place to like, make sure you get like really immersed in it. So she’ll ask you, like, what do you see?

[00:22:20] Angela: What do you hear? What do you feel like? Um, so like for me, I was imagining like the beach, so then I was like, oh, you know, once I’m. Really in it enough. I’m like, okay, I can like, here’s some seagulls and like, feel the wind and like, whatever. Right. So like really trying to immerse you. And then once you’re immersed enough that you can kind of like pick up on all these little details then slowly she has you visualize, like going down some stairs.

[00:22:50] Angela: and coming upon a hallway, um, and this hallway is kind of like leading you into your past lives. And so once you’re in the hallway, she would ask like, how many doors do you see? And the number of doors would be like the number of past lives that we would likely explore in that session. And it’s not leading.

[00:23:11] Angela: Like, she’s not like, oh, do you see four doors or whatever? It’s like, you should be seeing some doors. How many are there? And for me, I saw three. And a lot of times she’s just kind of asking you questions. So she was like, okay, three doors. Um, how many on the left? How many on the right. And I would tell her, and then she’d be like, okay, which one feels like the first one that you want to go.

[00:23:39] Angela: And I would be like, okay, like, oh, something she told me too was like, um, just rely on your intuition, the entire. like, whatever gut feeling you have, or like the small little voice in your head, she was like, don’t ignore it. Anything you feel any thought you have just say it and do it because that is your intuition, like kind of guiding you through it.

[00:24:02] Angela: So I was like, okay, the left door and like, whatever. Um, oh, also I’ll mention this for the woo woo. Peeps is, uh, before we like went into any lives, she did. Um, do this thing where she like calls upon my guides, my spirit guides to come and like protect, protect me and like help guide me through whatever I was gonna see and go through.

[00:24:26] Angela: Um, I believe that stuff. So I was like, great. But if you don’t believe that stuff, whatever, just, just, uh, entertain it. Right. Um, but yeah, so then we went through each door and it was actually quite interesting because then once you open the door, yet she would ask things like, what kind of door is it? Like, what does it look like?

[00:24:46] Angela: What material is it made of? And like, what feeling do you get from it? Because actually the first door that I got, I was like, I felt immediately like very scared. Like I started shaking, my whole body started shaking and I was like, there’s something scary behind the store. And like, I. I don’t know what’s gonna come from this versus like other doors.

[00:25:09] Angela: I was like, oh, this feels like fine. I don’t get any like, certain sense from it. And or the, my, I had to reiterate. So my third one, I was like, oh, this feels fun. Or like, whatever, like, there’s just like, you you’ll get certain feelings about what that experience might be. And then when you open the door, you essentially are like entering the body of.

[00:25:29] Angela: Past life. Um, I think for everyone it’s a little different. Like she was asking me like, well, are you like in the body now? And I was like, uh, I don’t really think so. Cuz from kind of from like point my point of view. So like you visual, you might visualize, or you might just hear sense things, know things everyone’s different.

[00:25:52] Angela: I was kind of visualizing like, kind of like when you dream the amount of visuals you get with a dream. So I was visualizing, like trying to enter a body. , but I was still kind of like above the body. So it was almost like, if you believe and imagine that like, my soul was the thing that was kind of like going through these doors.

[00:26:16] Angela: Right. It was kind of like, my soul was like, I’m not totally ready to just like spot into this body. I’m gonna like, hang out up top. So I was kind of like half in half out and just like, that’s fine. Like, if that’s like where you’re comfortable, let’s do that. So everyone’s a little different, but that’s kind of how I experienced.

[00:26:36] Jesse: cool. That sounds really interesting. I actually, what you’re talking about, transitions perfectly into my next question, which is like, what is the sensation of seeing past life? Because you’re, are you, you’re not like fully unaware of your physical surroundings, right? Or are you

[00:26:54] Angela: are not. unaware. You’re just not focused on it.

[00:26:59] Angela: Mm-hmm , you’re actually completely aware of everything. Mm-hmm so that’s kind of like the debunking is like a lot of people think they are like gonna be manipulated or like. Easily controlled or have someone plant like bad ideas in your head or whatever, if you’re under hypnosis, but you’re fully aware of everything.

[00:27:18] Angela: Like I heard her voice, I knew exactly what was happening and I could stop at any moment. Like she even was like, if you have to pee, tell me because you’re gonna be aware that like you need to pee is more that. Um, everything else happening around, I just tune it out because we’re focused on like this activity that’s happening right now.

[00:27:40] Angela: Um, so what I felt, I mean, it was kind of similar to psychedelics in that a lot of things you just like. Feel the emotion of like, what is happening or, you know, something to be true without someone telling it to you or whatnot. And so a lot of these experiences. Um, that was kind of what I was going through, but the way that the sessions worked was basically like, she would ask me questions to help me.

[00:28:13] Angela: And maybe that was because it was like my first time. So I didn’t really know what I was doing. Um, because I would basically like drop into these bodies and then she’d be like, what do you see? And I’d tell her, and then. I’d have like nothing and then she’d be like, okay, like what else? You know, like she’s trying to like pull from what, what I’m experiencing so that we actually get to something.

[00:28:34] Angela: Um, cuz I think without the guiding, without the guidance, I would’ve just kind of been like, uh, I don’t know what I’m doing now. Like what’s going on? Yeah.

[00:28:46] Jesse: Got it. Um, So then maybe backtracking, cuz you were talking that you had like three doors and like one was really scary. What were maybe some of the difficult aspects about doing this?

[00:28:58] Jesse: Like did you encounter anything that was like weird or scary or you found it hard to relax? .

[00:29:05] Angela: Yeah, well, I think it’s two things. One was just like knowing what to do. So that’s kind of what I was saying about like, without her kind of guiding me, I was kind of just like stuck where I was like, what am I supposed to be looking at?

[00:29:15] Angela: Like, it would be like, okay, I’m wearing this dress. And like, I see my shoes and like, blah, blah, blah. But like, what else is there? So knowing what to do once you’re in there is kind of. Question mark question mark. Um, so thankfully she was there to, with questions to shape it. Um, the other part was definitely like similar to just any self growth thing.

[00:29:41] Angela: So like with psychedelics or whatever, like. I said that first one was scary. Right? Like you feel this sense of dread of like, there’s some shit that I need to face and I’m scared to face it. And I don’t know what it is, but I’m like terrified. So that was really difficult, especially because that was my first door that we went through was the scary one.

[00:30:03] Angela: So I was kind of like, what is it gonna be? Um, and almost like, I don’t wanna do it, but like, if you’re already in it, you have to just like, be willing to. Explore it. Right. So it was more like initially getting past that huge sense of dread of like what’s in store. Um, if I already feel that there’s something kind of like not pleasant behind this,

[00:30:30] Jesse: that makes sense.

[00:30:31] Jesse: They say the only way out is through mm-hmm . Yeah. So did you learn anything from doing this past life regress?

[00:30:41] Angela: I did. I learned many things. I mean, yeah. I think

[00:30:50] Jesse: maybe like your top three takeaways, things that were either things that are like you are taking with you to your current self or things that you are like, oh, I really didn’t expect to have that kind of experience or self or something.

[00:31:09] Angela: I did find that there were like a few things that happened in the past that have an influence on like why I have blockages in current day. Um, I’ll keep it vague for the one that I just feel is like, too, it was just like too much, but, um, one of them was like, essentially, it was like very long ago. I was in like medieval times or whatever was like, that was the first one.

[00:31:37] Angela: Um, and essentially I had, um, a stillborn child and so, and then I. , this is like so dark. I died of grief essentially shortly after, um, the baby died. So I think that like that trauma would be traumatic enough for probably any woman to kind of have like challenges with intimacy and want, you know, essentially getting, having any opportunity of getting pregnant and blah, blah, blah.

[00:32:08] Angela: So that, that I was, that was very unexpected, cuz I was like, I would not have like pegged that. Something to have happened because, you know, I, as much as I believe this kind of stuff, I’m still a skeptic. I’m still like, I don’t know. Like, I’m probably like I watch too many movies and like, I’m like planting, you know, typical, um, scenarios in my brain.

[00:32:30] Angela: And then my, you know, my session’s gonna like spurt out this like very generic incident that happened. And that’s the reason. And this was just like, oh, I would not have expected this to have been like, Something my brain would come up with. So it was more believable to me cuz I was like, why would I come up with that?

[00:32:48] Angela: That’s like the least related to like my current life and like, um, something I would fear. So yeah, that was, that was really interesting cuz I was like, oh that it connects kind of like where I’m headed now because with the psychedelics and whatever, like part of the identity. Changing, um, is that like in the next, in the re or in the forthcoming years, right.

[00:33:17] Angela: We’re gonna move into like creating a family. Um, and like, then my identity will shift because I’ll eventually move into like mother motherhood as like part of my identity. Right. And so it was, it was pretty interesting to see one life kind of like directly tied to where I’m trying to enter soon, um, as the next stage of my life and some.

[00:33:38] Angela: Uh, past trauma that is related to that, that might also be part of why I have some like, qualms with becoming a mother and like having, you know, blah, blah, blah, anyways. So that was really interesting. Um, and then the other one that was more directly tied with, like my question around intimacy was also similar in terms of.

[00:34:05] Angela: I was skeptical that my brain was just gonna fabricate like a stereotypical situation. Um, and it was act, it was interesting in that essentially there was a trauma that happened when I was a child where it didn’t happen to me. It happened to my mother, but I witnessed it as a child. And so it had like a really deep, long in this lasting, in, in the, in the past life, in a different past life.

[00:34:30] Angela: Yeah. So I had the three past lives. Um, one was that medieval one. This is, uh, a second one. Um, and because I witnessed it as a child, I think I was like probably like five or six years old. Um, in that past life, when I witnessed this like very trauma, traumatic situation happened to my mom. Had left a really deep imprint on me in that life.

[00:34:55] Angela: And then I suppose carried over into like my current life in at least some fashion. Um, and. So, yeah, that one was really interesting, cuz it’s like, okay, that seems to tie more directly with like some of the challenges that I currently have around that topic. Ooh, sorry. that topic? um, and, and again, because it was not like the stereotypical scene, I would’ve picked up from a movie or whatever.

[00:35:29] Angela: Yeah. I was like, okay. I’m more believe this as well, that it didn’t happen to me, especially it happened to like someone else, but like someone very close to me and blah, blah, blah. Yeah.

[00:35:40] Jesse: That’s really interesting. Um, and I wanna ask you actually, because I’ll do the Oprah twist the night. not really, how are you dealing with these past traumas?

[00:35:51] Jesse: Right? Because inner current lives, we’re already working really hard on the trauma and the current life. How does this slot into, I guess, how you see yourself and your current set of traumas and how do you plan on dealing with that or, or do you, do you see it more kind of as knowledge about yourself rather than something that you’re presently dealing with?

[00:36:14] Angela: That makes sense. I think it’s more the latter, the knowledge of yourself and not something you’re presently dealing with. Um, and I did, it’s a good question because I asked this of the therapist afterwards too, is like, what am I supposed to do with this? Right. and she was like, . She was like, honestly, most of the time, just knowing that those things are like, kind of the root of some of your blockages usually helps alleviate a lot of those blockages, but she was like, If you are still feeling stuck, it means that there was more to be had there that we just didn’t like get to.

[00:36:49] Angela: Cause she was like, sometimes I have people who like come in with certain issues and like they have one session and they’re like completely unblocked because it was like very clear what the, like one thing was. And she was like other people, they feel like partially unblocked. And then they have to come back for like return sessions because there, there were more lives that dealt with like a similar.

[00:37:09] Angela: um, I think I’m more in the latter of like, I, I realize some things that like lifted some things, but I was still like, huh, I’m not like cured, cured, you know? Um, but I think one thing that did carry into like present life that, um, helped. I in my mindset was that one about the, like the childbirth related one?

[00:37:33] Angela: Um, it was a very sad situation, but like one really pleasant thing that came out of it was like, because she was asking me all these questions right. Of like, how do you feel? And like, what happens next and blah, blah, blah. And one of the like very complicated emotions I was feeling during that life was like, even though I’m like extremely sad about this.

[00:37:57] Angela: Being lost immediately. I felt this like deep, deep love for this child that I had not felt before in current life. Right. So like, it kind of gave me a glimpse into kind of that unconditional, like immense love that everyone talks about that a mother has for their child that you don’t know that you’ll never feel until you have that child kind of thing.

[00:38:26] Angela: and so it gave me that preview into like that’s possible and that. Like will feel this type of love for your children when you have your own children in like this life. And so that did help me in kind of current life now, because I am going to be entering that stage in the nearish. Future because, you know, and I think we’ve talked about, we had the kids episode and whatever, like, I don’t have this like maternal instinct in me that I, like when I see a baby, I’m like, I love babies.

[00:38:58] Angela: And like, I feel ready, you know, like that’s just not who I am. So I think feeling that in that past life and like being in that state where I just like, know the emotions are real, it did help me calm myself a little bit about the. Reservations. I have, I guess, about becoming a mother. Um, soon-ish cause I’m like, well, there’s that like really bright light at the end of that tunnel of like, you are gonna feel this thing that you’ve like never felt before that will be worth it to become a mother.

[00:39:31] Jesse: Since this is a uptick. Shall we move into the, the, uh, for cookie? Yes. Cause we always like to end on as sweet treat. Okay, cool. Indeed. So I wanted to ask you what was the most interesting and or amusing vision of your past life that you had? I’m hoping that door number three, had something amusing ,

[00:39:51] Angela: uh, or interesting.

[00:39:54] Jesse: didn’t you say it was like your daughter or something?

[00:39:57] Angela: Oh, yes. Okay. Yes. That is a way better thing to, to end on. Um, yes. Okay. So actually it’s uh, so that does remind me of a subtopic that we didn’t get to, uh, which is when you have like a traumatic life that. Dramatically something that your hypnotherapist can do is rewrite the life for you so that you feel more at peace with that life.

[00:40:23] Angela: So like whether you believe it or not, what’s happening there. Like, I think there’s a, you can have many debates about this because theoretically and like the way most people think about time, right. Past present futures. Like the past is past it’s gone. You can’t do anything about it, but if you are more on the woo woo side, and also if you lean into like, um, for example, um, fuck, what’s that movie with, uh, Matthew McConaughy and space and stuff.

[00:40:54] Angela: interstellar, if you are into interstellar or that book series three body problem and all that stuff, it’ll like space, time continuum, right? Like then you may be more inclined to believe that time is all relative and like it’s all happening at once and blah, blah, blah. So theoretically in that world, you could rewrite something in the, in the past because past present future, all kind of the same thing.

[00:41:19] Angela: So, um, in the childbirth one where it was very sad, she was like, we’re gonna rewrite this so that you like are in a better place. Um, and so she was like, what do you see? Like, let’s pretend that you don’t like the worst doesn’t happen. So like your child doesn’t die and like, you don’t then die out of grief and whatever.

[00:41:44] Angela: So like, what does happen? And so in. Version my child grew up and like became this wonderful daughter who like was really, you know, a go getter and like loved riding horses and like went off to study school, like what left home to study school and whatever. And I was so proud of her, blah, blah, blah. And one of the questions she asked before she wrapped up the life was like, okay, take now take a look at your daughter and your husband.

[00:42:14] Angela: do you recognize the souls of either of these people and you were my daughter? Yeah. I was like, that’s just, oh wait.

[00:42:24] Jesse: That’s so funny. I mean also like, oh, I’m

[00:42:29] Angela: touching. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, it’s, you can kind of interpret it two ways, right? Like theoretically, if this is like the rewritten life, technically you weren’t or like maybe you were that stillborn daughter.

[00:42:39] Angela: Wait, but, um, Whether or not, you believe this rewritten life. The fact that I saw you was something really like, it made me feel really good because it was kind of like, oh, we are like connected in like this like soul spiritual realm of themes. Right. That’s that’s what I believe. Obviously, you, you and I are different ends of the woooooo spectrum, but like the, the super woo.

[00:43:05] Angela: If you’re all bought in on woo uh, belief is. we’re all souls and that our like true selves are these souls. And we reside between lives. We reside in this like soul world, unattached to human bodies, and you move through the soul world with your soul group of like other souls on your like, kind of similar level of development.

[00:43:30] Angela: And you incarnate with each other to like play different roles in each other’s lives. Help. Um, learn whatever lessons that you were supposed to be learning in that life. So the fact that I saw you just like made me really happy, cuz I was like, oh, so we do have like a bigger, you know, a deeper connection than like a one off stranger kind of thing that like is you’re just in passing in this life, but won’t see you again.

[00:43:54] Angela: No. Um, so yeah,

[00:43:56] Jesse: I’m sure we will wait. And I’m curious, what age was that life in?

[00:44:02] Angela: Oh, medieval. It was medieval.

[00:44:05] Jesse: Oh, interesting. Yeah. Oh my God. I got to go to school. I must have been really smart.

[00:44:09] Angela: I know, right? Like a lady Uhhuh. Exactly. That’s why I was so proud of you.

[00:44:15] Jesse: that’s amazing. Yeah. Well, listeners. I hope you’ve enjoyed this interview with Angela.

[00:44:21] Jesse: I feel like all the interviews with Angela have been very, very interesting. so please write us in, let us know if you have any questions. If you’ve done a similar experience, if you have other similar experiences you like to recommend Angela, I’m sure she’d be willing to try probably. You’re a resident try gal for these things.

[00:44:42] Jesse: True. So, uh, write us in, at tell us where you’re from@gmail.com or DMS on the socials.

[00:44:49] Angela: Yes. And if you believe nothing of what I say, I hope you enjoyed this nice bedtime story of fantastical things that you’ve heard.

[00:44:58] Jesse: Amazing. All right. and, um, we’ll be back next week with another fresh new episode for you.

[00:45:05] Jesse: And until then,

Note: Transcript fully created by automated AI

[00:00:00] Jesse: Hi everyone. I’m Jesse Lin

[00:00:01] Angela: And I’m Angela Lin. And welcome back to another episode of, but where are you really? From today? We are very honored to have. Another guest on our show to provide a very important perspective. Um, we’re following up on the Ukraine war and this time with a Ukrainian that is on the ground.

[00:00:23] Angela: So we are very lucky to have Alex Zev with us. Uh, hello, Alex.

[00:00:31] Alex: Thank you for inviting me, which means we’ll anywhere from Ukraine.

[00:00:36] Angela: Thank you so much for joining us. Um, for listeners wondering how did we finally get someone from Ukraine on the show? This is the magic of the internet guys. So. We, uh, had posted clips from our first episode where we had mentioned that our original goal was to have both a Ukrainian and a Russian perspective.

[00:00:58] Angela: We weren’t able to secure both in time. Um, so we had posted some clips from that episode on social media. And Alex happened to comment on one of our clips, uh, saying, you know, if there’s anything you don’t understand, I’m happy to provide some additional color and context. And I was like, well, would you, would you be able to provide that on a follow up episode of our podcast?

[00:01:22] Angela: And he was very quickly like, yes. So this is how we got connected guys, TikTok of all things.

[00:01:31] Alex: Yes. That’s, that’s magic of, uh, nowaday. Way of leaving that we can be connected and share firsthand experience so that that’s, uh, that’s kind of great. I’m really happy to share, um, this, uh, experience to people who might not, um, fully understand this.

[00:01:48] Alex: Uh, so I kind of realize that it’s difficult sometimes to explain, and even before we start, so I want to send all the us citizens and for all the people around the. To heaven, their time to dig into topic and support the truth in this war. It’s not a matter of picking aside. It’s. Spending your time on, uh, this topic is really important for us.

[00:02:10] Angela: Yeah. Well, thank you for joining us. I, um, we definitely agree very important topic, and I think we’ll talk about it a little bit later, but it is very difficult. I think nowadays be almost because we’re so connected and. There are so many ways to get information. It is hard to get the kind of like right information.

[00:02:29] Angela: Yeah. A lot of ways. Um, so we will talk about that as well. Um, but, but before we dive in, I wanna ask you our kind of signature question, but where are you really from, uh, go

[00:02:40] Alex: ahead. Yeah, that’s a great question. So I will, uh, answer that in kind of romantic ways that I’m from the cities at one and a 5,000 years old.

[00:02:50] Alex: And it that keeps changing with. so that’s, that’s um, where I’m from, I’m from ki Ukraine. And I was actually born in Soviet union. I four years older than Ukraines and I spent, uh, all my life here and it keeps changes and I keep changing. And that’s, that’s where I’m from. From here.

[00:03:13] Angela: I love it. And yeah, that is, is just so special to have someone literally on the ground, in the capital with us.

[00:03:21] Angela: So again, thank you. Um, and before we go into any topics, how are you, how are you doing

[00:03:29] Alex: well, relatively fine. Uh, I would say, and I would say some routine changed, so I don’t remember much from where started. Uh, obviously, uh, everyone is in Ukraine is not fine in global nowaday terms. So we don’t have feeling of complete safety and this basic sense that people have in, uh, modern world.

[00:03:55] Alex: Uh, however people get used to anything. And so we, we are getting on track with that. So, uh, I’m fine. I can, I can tell, uh, from, as. um, to the extent as it’s possible in, uh, living in countries that he’s at work

[00:04:14] Jesse: what’s, uh, so what’s kind of your daily, daily routine or daily life look like now,

[00:04:20] Alex: all the people in Ukraine are touched or affected by the war.

[00:04:24] Alex: So everyone takes some part it’s, uh, not that army ISIT and people are just waiting to outcome it’s that everyone is. And so the last three major groups, I would say, uh, one is that, uh, armed forces and is territorial defense is kind of division of armed forces that protect local communities and help police help, uh, fire department help, help present.

[00:04:51] Alex: And so a big volunteer movements that people who live here and, uh, try to help out that too. And the citizen who, who, who need, uh, help. So I would. Uh, all the people are divided in these three buckets. Uh, one way or another. I personally am not in I’m I’m forces. I’m not in territorial defense. So my decision was that I continue working.

[00:05:16] Alex: I’m a software engineer and my income is higher than, uh, operating Ukraine. And I decided is that if I can, can donate couple thousand dollars per month to army, that would be better place for. For now to support this situation and, uh, this might change. Uh, so maybe it’ll be a point when I will need to go to get new trainer and stuff like that.

[00:05:41] Alex: So I’m ready to that. Uh, so currently routine, my personal team is I work and volunteer a little bit with putting my skills the most effective way, and every person tries to do that. So you try not to get new skills, but to you want to. Most of what you can do already. Let’s say a person who was a project manager, then he can organize volunteer movement or person knows, uh, how to cook it, his secure hobby and, uh, people are making food for, for people.

[00:06:13] Alex: So that’s, that’s kind of it. Uh, so that’s, that’s kind of routine. I mostly work and do a little stuff, uh, in, in walk out community. Before

[00:06:25] Angela: we hit record. You had mentioned that you have some friends that are kind of in the hotbed of the current, uh, situation. How are, how are those friends doing and how are you staying in touch with those folks and knowing kind of what’s going on with them?

[00:06:40] Alex: Um, firstly say that’s, uh, I’m in capital, which is kind of target number one for Russians and. That’s kind of crazy. I would say from the other side, it’s most projected city. So closest I physically was to work is that, um, uh, missile heated in 500 meters, uh, from me. And, um, that was kind of scary. So I even saw for a second, so that’s it.

[00:07:08] Alex: Um, but luckily it was not. And, uh, and as day I, um, went back from central railway station where it helped people to get on a train stuff like. and on ground combat was happening. Uh, so I had a chance to get to B and, uh, luckily I know my city, so I managed to make a de two let’s name it that. So if there are two things that I personally was the most close to work, and I realize that my experience is nothing comparing to what people in suburbs had.

[00:07:44] Alex: So my friends, uh, lived. For two weeks in a basement, in a city that was taken over by Russians. So they managed, uh, to flee couple weeks ago. It was just luck. Um, now we say in a safe place, we keep this contact. They check on each other. And that’s, uh, kind of, uh, a lot of every Ukrainian’s daily routine to, to check on friends and, uh, relatives to, to figure out, do they need something?

[00:08:12] Alex: Do you need something and, and keeps this, um,

[00:08:15] Angela: connection. And sorry for any kind of like ignorant questions we may ask, because I guess there’s just a lot of stuff where I’m like, I don’t understand how these things function. So, um, during war time, like, is there any break in telecommunications or internet?

[00:08:33] Angela: Because I saw, like, for example, I saw, you know, star link was sent over to make sure that there’s like internet coverage and whatnot. So like how was there any, um, Patchiness and ability to communicate with people, especially in areas where it was like heavily destroyed or, or taken over directly, anything like that.

[00:08:55] Alex: So there is a case with, uh, no communication at all. So in terms stands that, uh, not to have seller, you need to destroy some sex cell coins. They are destroyed actually on the south, in the city of Mar. So they don’t have any connection except for Starlin. So thanks for that. That’s uh, really great to have ability, uh, to communicate in one first days of war.

[00:09:22] Alex: Uh, missile heated to our, um, TV center. And it’s not only TV it’s, uh, spreading radio signals and, uh, stuff like that. So we, we didn’t didn’t have shortages with communication in Kiev. Luckily just, uh, good luck, uh, as the cities do. And, uh, some districts of our city didn’t have like communication, uh, of, um, water or electricity or stuff like that.

[00:09:48] Alex: And when you don’t have electricity, you don’t have. For sure. Yeah, you have mobile internet, but uh, some of infrastructure objects were heated and, uh, they get kind of quickly repaired. So I’m now looking at this guys who work in this city structures and they, our superheroes, you know, it’s a war time to fix, um, something it’s great.

[00:10:11] Alex: Great. But we, we didn’t have that shortages in, in capital, like, like big shortages. We didn’t have it yet.

[00:10:19] Angela: I think you mentioned that you don’t quite remember exactly the before or after of the war starting and, and now, um, I wonder if you can comment a little bit about what you can remember, but also, I guess I know obviously this is de poor time, but I also understand that you have already been.

[00:10:40] Angela: At war with Russia in some capacity because of the Crimea yeah. Situation for the last like eight years. So I guess question being like how drastic of a difference or like how bad was it before already? Because it wasn’t like you guys were just in like total peace time, like everything’s chill beforehand.

[00:11:01] Angela: Um, and versus like now, um, after like full, full scale or being, you

[00:11:08] Alex: know, breaking up. I will try to make this story short. So feel free to interrupt me and get some details. Cause I, I was physically involved in a lot of, uh, scenes that were going on in Ukraine cause I’m 34 years old. So, uh, I, I kind of met this, this scenes.

[00:11:25] Alex: So, uh, matter of fact, it was two revolutions taking place in Ukraine. Uh, one was in 2000. Which was called orange revolution. And, uh, it was kind of on the topics that president’s elections were made up. Uh, and it was kind of obvious that president was not erected by a proper counting of both, but it’s, uh, was just made up through the administrative resources.

[00:11:50] Alex: And that was the revolution with a leader. You know, it was historical period of time when we needed a leader to, to represent. It was a political leader. It was kind of a lot of gathering on central, um, center, square and center and people who are protesting on, uh, taking Revo, taking, um, people from outside to make sure that, uh, calculations are not done in a way that it’s made up and stuff like that and stuff like.

[00:12:20] Alex: And, uh, it did happen. I was, um, in the college at the time, I was kind of 16 years old, but for some reason I was, uh, felt that, uh, okay, we, we need to kind of establish real democracy here and it’s not going to happen if we just close our eyes on the fact that, uh, someone can make up something because, uh, they can make up something else if, uh, they’re capable of making a presidential election.

[00:12:46] Alex: So, uh, reelection took place. And that leader became a president. And, uh, with him actually Ukraine started to be recognized among other countries as a equal C. It’s not, not some place from former Soviet union. Right? So that’s that guy, he knew English at least. Uh, so he managed to kind of establish this communication and after that, so another, the election took place democratic way.

[00:13:13] Alex: uh, that as a pian candidates did, uh, win, but this communication towards west was established already. So it’s it. So, um, was going that direction now it’s like in any election election system, like us election system or whatever, maybe we from outside or not understand us election, but what we do understand is it system.

[00:13:38] Alex: He’s designed in a way that if you make a bad decision on president or on Congress, on something, you cannot break the whole sin in the chance where, uh, this and that government is, is in power. So that Perian, uh, president was selected since we’re going on towards west. And we had this social let’s say event.

[00:13:59] Alex: We had European football final that took place in Ukraine and in. Uh, and a lot of infrastructure changes were happening. You know, we got funding, you got, uh, this and that. And, uh, I was not a software engineer at that time. I was a construction engineer and I actually worked on construction of airport in, uh, Kiev.

[00:14:22] Alex: So we’ve got a, like really beacon, modern airport that is capable of accepting, uh, lots of travelers and tourists and stuff like. . And what happened after that is that people from Europe who came to see the final, they realize that Ukraine is kind of, um, it’s not scary place and it’s relatively cheap. And it’s really common to Europe.

[00:14:47] Alex: And people from Europe started to see Ukraine as a touristic destination, because we have a lot of, uh, sense to see in citizen, in nature and stuff like that. So, Started to happen and Ukrainians started to travel more, uh, to Europe and see what’s going on there. And, uh, at one, uh, point that president turns over the next integration with Europe and he turns over to Russia and protest starts because, uh, yes, your operation.

[00:15:20] Alex: Yes. You were elected in, um, democratic way, but we didn’t sign for changing the direction fully. and that protest in 2016 closely, nobody took it serious. Even me, it was where mostly students, it was, uh, fun for them to protest against some. And sure, since students want to travel to Europe, students want to have ability to get education in another country or just to see other people.

[00:15:47] Alex: So it’s, uh, but it was not taken that serious. You know, most more adult people who work, congratulate myself, we thought, okay, And says government. And we, we, we are not capable of doing that. And at one point government, uh, decides to remove this protest with police force brutal, removing from, uh, pH physically from the square.

[00:16:12] Alex: And that’s how that forces started. We were not against president. We were not against government. We were against the fact that, um, police force was used to remove peaceful protest. It was not acceptable for us. And I would say it’s similar to black lives matter movement. Like, uh, this happens and everything is on fire cause of that, what people wanted is just to remove people from police who were responsible for that.

[00:16:42] Alex: And that’s it. We didn’t want to remove government. We didn’t want to kind of any political changes. We didn’t have a leader. We just were against. The situation, right? And, uh, that protest involved and people started to figure out that as this brutal removing of, of this peaceful protest was only part of corrupted system.

[00:17:04] Alex: It took more and more and more and more at, and the, of the day, this corruption president fleet from Ukraine and temporary government was established. And at that exact time, when it’s temporary government, you don’t know what to do. You kind of need to figure out. How to make a legal way to this, that, so countries still respected by other countries because if you make a co that is not accepted by everyone else, right.

[00:17:32] Alex: Then how do you proceed with that? How do you proceed with, with your politics if it’s not accepted? So, uh, our government looked for a way to establish the new election and stuff like that. And at that exact. Uh, Russia takes the situation and takes over the premier. So it puts military forces to premier, and there is no fight back because, uh, government is temporary.

[00:17:58] Alex: And if you fight back with aren’t forces, you have a high chance to kill civilians. Uh, and you were not prepared to, to do a, take a war in 21st century. And Ukrainian army, I would say it was just name of army, but it was not real army Russia takes STR and makes an activity called referendum referendum with, um, with guns.

[00:18:23] Alex: And they say, okay, people from premier voted to go to Russia, but it’s not how it happens. Right. It’s, it’s not by agreement of governments and of people who live there. And it’s, um, it’s quite the same time. Uh, Russian troops go to Dan. and, um, support separatists. And it, it was not that number of separatists.

[00:18:45] Alex: Actually. It was just this a little bit Russian vibe that was heavily backed up by, uh, Russian military. We have this famous video when, um, a soldier. So separatist from Ukraine, uh, tells in Russian for, for civilians that they need to go beyond some, some point. And he says, And, uh, the cases, uh, we don’t call this eBIC we call it.

[00:19:14] Alex: So our Russian is a little bit different. And when people says it means he’s definitely not from Ukraine, he’s, uh, definitely a Russian soldier. So they take over it and start this kind of military presence. And, uh, Ukraine was able to gather small amount of people who join the army and started to push back.

[00:19:35] Alex: That’s that’s how this war started. It was back and forth. It, there were some agreements I, myself didn’t follow up on all the eight years. Cause I, I had my. Since to do as well after the revolution, like I changed my profession. And so a lot of kind of things changed, but it was kind of the beginning that, um, Russia used the situation to start this invasion and start this, um, making the environment where Ukraine cannot.

[00:20:04] Alex: Go faster in, uh, its progress. I would say thank you

[00:20:08] Angela: for all of that context. I think especially the Crimea part is really interesting to hear from the Ukrainian perspective, because I think a lot of the way the history is written in Western media and also how we heard it from the, the Russian civilian we had on the previous episode.

[00:20:28] Angela: Obviously not cool that that happened, but it sounded like it was more, it sounded like the separatist movement was stronger than something that was kind of propped up, um, by the Russian government. So,

[00:20:42] Alex: so you need to understand that a lot of Cian population are Russian soldiers or post soldier soldiers.

[00:20:49] Alex: So it was an activity in the. S R they tried to remove, you know, national identity from different groups of people and, uh, Shon not only Ukrainians were affected by that same happened with ukranian TAs. It’s like native population. They were deported and military basis were established. And, uh, a lot of nowadays, um, Cian populations, It’s actually, uh, Russian soldiers and their families, or post Soviet soldiers and their families.

[00:21:22] Alex: So you cannot even tell it’s in the first place. And so, yes, a lot of people did support this, let’s say pro Russian movement. And, uh, I see that is that they associate Russia with Soviet union and they remember Googled days of Soviet union. And they were only seen that was good, that they were 30 years.

[00:21:43] Alex: Uh, and ever since was fine for them. They were treated good, uh, by the government, they had good living, but it’s, it’s, it’s not, uh, it has nothing to deal with, um, modern lifestyle. Right. You cannot, um, kind of put ideals that were okay. Saudi or 40 years ago and, and say it was good because of all.

[00:22:05] Jesse: When all this first started, did you guys actually believe it?

[00:22:09] Jesse: Because the way that you’re telling kind of the series of events, it almost sounds like a slow boil and. When you kind of like incrementally step towards those things, it’s sometimes hard to perceive the next thing as like the full escalation. So what was that like? Were you and your friends actually like, oh my God, this is like a war?

[00:22:28] Jesse: Or do you think it was just a kind of, um, another opportunist thing that Russia was doing? It

[00:22:34] Alex: was, uh, it was unbelievable for sure. You cannot wait for that. I have actually return. From Poland on 20th of February. And, uh, on 24th of February, I woke up and I looked up my, uh, cell phone. I had kind of certain missed calls from my mom.

[00:22:52] Alex: it? It was clear that Russia invaded. It was, uh, like you could physically hear that our Cub strikes and stuff like. So what was that? It was about to contact friends and families and, uh, figure out what to do. And, uh, are we doing something? Are we not doing something car one, will it lost? Will we fail right now?

[00:23:14] Alex: Or maybe is it good idea to go somewhere by train or not, or, or buy a car and stuff like that and stuff like that. My decision at some point was not to go anywhere and it’s not related to the fact that I’m kind kind of. so also men at the age from 18 to 60, uh, potentially go to army. And so, uh, if army will kind of reach me out in terms of that, I will join it’s now it’s, it’s kind of clear, but even if it was not the case, I would not, not go anywhere.

[00:23:48] Alex: Because from here you see what peop what is a real. Right. Mm. So if you, uh, in another country you can kind of contact with someone or rely on use or rely on something, but being in key, if you kind of understand that, okay, electricity is fine. That is fine. That is fine. What is not fine? And you can address that for instance, for, for CS like Kiev.

[00:24:15] Alex: So we, we had this, uh, community established in my. And what we have discovered is that, um, CT is not doing so well with, uh, help for elderly and, um, kind of that, um, really basic, uh, human stuff. So, uh, we established to, to do that. And so like makes this, uh, rips for that elderly people easier. It was shock for everyone.

[00:24:43] Alex: Nobody understood what is going on. And, uh, I would say it was too many information in the first two week, two weeks. And after that, all the people, uh, found their places in the situation. So somebody went to more safe place. Somebody didn’t. And now people just proceed to, to do small tasks in where they are.

[00:25:06] Angela: It’s really, really cool to hear that essentially, everyone just stepped up and it became like a truly, truly community driven effort. I just, uh, I’m like thinking if something like this were to happen in the us, if we would even have that level of community feeling to like do that, I’m not, I’m not sure we would.

[00:25:30] Alex: Uh, frankly, I, I was in the United States once in my wife and I had this community feeling. So I, I, I believe, uh, yes. And, uh, what, um, I wanted to discuss is that, um, You know, I was really against of the idea of Kevin weapons in Europe. We don’t have that. And so we were kind of thinking we are civilized enough, uh, not to have that.

[00:25:52] Alex: And now this changed. So, uh, us is way better prepared for that. That kind of, since I would say that it’s hard topics to. but so my take is that, um, it’s not Russian government. You know, we hear this a lot that, um, Russians are fooled by propaganda and stuff like that. But, um, it’s an excuse to some extent, right?

[00:26:17] Alex: If person is 20 or so assault, how can you be affected by propaganda from TV? And what I realized is that if they don’t share the idea of, uh, this after government does not necessarily mean they don’t share imperialistic. First days of war, we tried to reach out to people from Russia to, to tell them what’s going on.

[00:26:39] Alex: So we expected them. Uh, we don’t need them to oversaw government. It’s not necessary. Right? So, uh, you just, there are different ways to, to remove armed conflict without overflowing government. You can go and strike on the factories that serves, uh, that. So we are trying to reach them out and what we figure.

[00:27:02] Alex: Now is that Russians won’t kind of be in this imperialistic vibe when they, their biggest, their strongest and stuff like that. That, since that did matter in 18th century, they want to be in that. I don’t know why, but, uh, it’s it’s matter of fact. And so let’s say the best case scenario is that any war AR ayin and civilian unsecured by accidents, right?

[00:27:27] Alex: What is going on in reality? Kind of in this place where my friends from butcher it’s kind of 25 kilometers of some means 15 miles. Uh, so it was taken over by Russian army. And what they do is terror against civilians. So they tire hands and kill them, literally execute. They execute them in one room and live in another room.

[00:27:52] Alex: Almost all women erect, multiple times, children erect. What kind of words? Is it for some political scene? Is it for some economic supremacy? No, it’s just, it’s just a terror to show that we are to make decisions because we, we are aren’t, you know, and, uh, now I’m getting to the idea that was not acceptable for me before that every man needs to be military drain, at least the basics to protect ourselves.

[00:28:21] Alex: But now I’m currently fully support this idea and. I’m pretty sure that our country will, will establish that. So we, we will need to have this more powerful territorial defense and local related things. So all the people at least know how to use the weapons because civilians get in a situation when they cannot actually do anything.

[00:28:45] Alex: You know, you feel that if you don’t aggressively act against soldier, then you will be safe, but it’s not true at this world. I have a question

[00:28:54] Jesse: regarding the work crimes that are being committed on the ground. Is this something that is sponsored by the state, meaning that there is kind of like wide. You can do whatever you want.

[00:29:07] Jesse: Or this is kind of just like a situation where soldiers are being in that environment brings out like the worst of people, because let’s be honest, like many, many different, um, members of different armies, including our armies have committed war crimes as they’re there. And not all of those situations are like necessarily sanctioned, but I’m curious to, to know if that’s kind of like the case where the Russian government’s kind of just like, do whatever you want.

[00:29:31] Alex: Um, it’s obviously done intentionally yes. As RA war grants in different historical areas. And since Russian media, they call liberal media or not government controlled media. They refer to world war two that, that also did take place. But world Wari was 80 years ago. Right. Mm-hmm what’s um, I kind of realize, you know, army is the top of every.

[00:29:57] Alex: So even soldiers or officers and stuff like that, maybe they’re not best people to discuss Shakespeare or whatever. Right. But, um, you have no doubts that let’s say us, uh, soldiers, they really want to save and protect it’s it’s. That is what drives them to, to, to become, uh, army right. To, to get recruited, to get trained.

[00:30:23] Alex: Uh, and yes, there are military crimes and they are investigated by a government of that country after all. So government accepts that, uh, government says we will punish people who are responsible for war crimes. Right. And, uh, here, uh, Russian government says it’s all made up. Guys, we don’t have perfume studio to make this made up of that size.

[00:30:49] Alex: It’s kind of impossible. And, uh, what is scary to realize is that if that is the top of society, what society is.

[00:30:58] Angela: Uh, wow. Very heavy. A lot of stuff to unpack there. Um, I think something I’d like to dig into a little bit more is as you’re describing the work homes that are happening, I guess it reminds me of one of the topics we wanted to discuss was kind of like different sources of news and.

[00:31:19] Angela: Is trustworthy, blah, blah, blah. So in this specific case, are you hearing that through like direct people, you know, on the ground that have witnessed this stuff? Or is it like select news sources that you know, are really reliable? How are you getting your information about the war?

[00:31:37] Alex: So, uh, direct couple of justice sources.

[00:31:40] Alex: I will share links with you later on and shoes in its first can experience. And people who know people who know people who know people. And, uh, some since I, I kind of guarantee it’s not made up, uh, some people I just trust and some people I don’t trust. Uh, so I, I believe there, there are maybe some over emotional stuff happening.

[00:32:04] Alex: Uh, but, um, the, that kind of big sense, like, you know, missile, heated to railway station, you cannot hide that. It’s, it’s matter of. Right. And it was a recorded case when, uh, when a guy, uh, approached to this place and asked a volunteer, he had a relatives, uh, that were possibly killed by that hit. And, uh, she told a volunteer, I would want to try to find them and a volunteer replied.

[00:32:33] Alex: How do you imagine that? Do we. To open every package. So you recognize the person, can you call, make a call? And he makes a call and phone rings in one of packages. So this thing you, you cannot make up. Some of things I can visually see the missile heated that I told, uh, before and half of building missing there.

[00:32:56] Alex: So you cannot make up. That’s that’s kind of, uh, how I get it. we, we try to rely not only media, but stories from people. And once thing you need to realize that cases with killing is one thing, cases with rape is another thing. Cause even if, uh, um, there is no war, it’s difficult to confirm the case, even in real life because witnesses, they cannot.

[00:33:27] Alex: They, they need to go through therapy and we, we will get that, I believe in, in a month, if they will be able to talk. But now some of people, they literally, they can talk at all, not about the case. They do not talk because of what they, they, uh, been through.

[00:33:45] Angela: Of course. Yeah. Makes sense. Hey listeners, wondering how you can support us the biggest way is by increasing our visibility by following us on Instagram at where are you from pod on TikTok at, but where are you really from subscribing to our YouTube channel under, but where are you really from pod rating and reviewing us on apple podcasts and telling your friends the more people we can get to listen to the show, the more we can continue spotlighting different perspectives and stories.

[00:34:11] Angela: And if you feel so inclined, we’re also accepting donations@buymeacoffee.com slash where are you from? Thanks. Y’all. That’s how you get your sense of truth, um, from actual people, you know, from seeing literal things happening outside your window, and some certain trusted sources, um, dialing back for a kind of global audience.

[00:34:34] Angela: So because we are, we’re not on the ground and we have. I guess we’re bombarded with many different potential sources of information and in the us, we’re very, uh, you know, those are very different depending on left, right. Lean and what they wanna focus on. How do you recommend that? We , I guess stay as unbiased as possible and learn what is really going on.

[00:35:00] Angela: And. So if you have any like, kind of top lines, if you could give us of like how the war is actually going, because I think depending on which sources we listen to, it’s kind of like, oh, Russia’s like dominating or Ukraine’s totally fighting back. Like Russia has no chance. Like, I think there’s a very different narrative depending on which source you’re listening to.

[00:35:23] Angela: So I’m curious if you have any kind of like summary. Top line summary of like currently how it’s actually going and, and how long, I guess you perceive it might last.

[00:35:37] Alex: So we cannot project that. We don’t know how long it’s, it’s going to last. We don’t know the ideas of governments that, uh, how things going on.

[00:35:48] Alex: Is that, uh, you, you need to understand that how since is going on currently, it’s only known by, um, Ukraine defense. So our government even tells that you don’t post any news about any movement of our army, because by doing that, you can do harm for army. So since. Need to be taken retro retrospectively only.

[00:36:09] Alex: So from, since that’s happening now, it is a really bad situation in city of ma and a couple places I have, uh, my colleague from previous work who lives in Lia and from what she says, it’s not, not that kind of grad from other staff. So we had this eight, uh, eight directions where Russian. And so now it’s two time.

[00:36:34] Alex: So, uh, Ukraine was able to block six of the eight directions, which is kind of good. Uh, however, from the ground it’s, it’s not like in a movie, right? When there is a front line and there is fighting. It’s not like that front line is changing every day and small groups of people moving back, back and forth.

[00:36:56] Alex: So you, you cannot get this, um, on ground experience from. Because they hiding their positions from, from both sides. Uh, so it, it can be only done retrospectively you take one particular battle and then you kind of figure out what was happening there. Exactly. But you cannot get live information. It’s kind of a.

[00:37:18] Alex: It’s kind of a problem actually, with nowadays technology, we get used that we post every single line. Uh, right. And so there has some scenes that where’s the proof, uh, right, because you have a smartphone, you can record that, but how do people imagine this? So people is in city where dead parties, everywhere, and person thinks of how to get out of the situation, not, not to provide.

[00:37:47] Alex: Like exact, um, documentation of what is going on. And now I realize that actually war journalism is a tough job. Wh why I say is that change in Russian government might not change. The situation is similar to, um, war Vietnam when, uh, it was intentionally, even once government indeed understands it. There is no, uh, reason for that.

[00:38:13] Alex: And then Washington. Uh, posted this investigation and this is how this anti-war movement rolled out. Right? And in the past you could make an article or series of articles through a trusted source, like Washington post. And that will change the situation. Now we have too much information and, uh, now it knows that just solves that you can trust and everyone can discuss, is it true or not?

[00:38:39] Alex: So it’s kind of opposite side of living in this informational kind of. When, uh, we have too much information to, to pick, uh, truth from.

[00:38:49] Angela: Okay. I think that last main topic is around something you’ve already started discussing is kind of, um, how you see the Russian people, which is a very sticky. Subject, I think we already get a, a sense of, of how you see, um, them, but I guess I wanna just highlight some, some gray area.

[00:39:12] Angela: Um, you know, which is that there, as we heard from the, the Russians fill in that we interviewed it is. Common for family friends to be kind of like divided a across the, the country whose borders, like it was not like only Ukrainians live here, only Russians live there. It was a little bit more mixed like that.

[00:39:32] Angela: And also, I guess, forget the propaganda piece of, you know, Russian government, the laws that they’ve enacted kind of prohibit real protesting and real, you know, Fighting back metaphorically or, or physically of the government because literal jail time for just saying the word war, like how, I guess, how do you see the Russian people knowing that there are definitely some people that are pro war that are imperialist, like you said, and our committing war crimes, if they’re in the army, but there’s also this other sect of people.

[00:40:12] Angela: Are not pro war, but are afraid for their own lives. If they, they do something or, or try to do something

[00:40:19] Alex: right. Uh it’s um, it’s not me to, uh, educate people how to protest, right. Uh, we had exactly the same situation in 2014 and, uh, that sin needs to be kind of understood that some civil rights are not given away by governments.

[00:40:38] Alex: They are taken by people. So. Uh, yes, there is issue in with protesting in Russia, but how did they end up in a situation like that? It’s not, it didn’t appear yesterday. Like not changing government for 20 years kind of is, um, made, made up for that. And, uh, yes, there is issue with, uh, peaceful protest, but peaceful protest in after governments, it’s like playing chess with a bird.

[00:41:05] Alex: It’s kind of, it doesn’t make. Right. Maybe, uh, people could, um, do something else to stay safe, you know, go, go and strike on a factory or, uh, make, make a group of people that, uh, that are, um, able to fight back police. Like you see the protest. One people person get arrested and then other people are few that humans that on their phones.

[00:41:30] Alex: What kind of protest is that? What, what is the goal of that protest? . And so I believe that in years to come, Russia will get on with this Imperial, it will end and they will re realize that it’s not a way to go in nowaday nowadays world. And maybe it will even become a real Federation. It’s not real Federation.

[00:41:53] Alex: Now it’s a kingdom. So it’s called Russian Federation, right? Uh, Federation means you have separate states that have their own laws. And then you have a federal, uh, Texas or something or army, and, uh, that’s not true. And it’s to them to, to decide that we were asking to them to just stop one, not over throw government, do something with your government.

[00:42:19] Alex: So your soldiers, don’t not come to our land. They’re not capable of doing that. And it’s not us to educate them to do that. Our mission now is that soldiers who came to our land stay in our land. that kind of thing. What will happen with Russia? I personally don’t care at all. I do understand that we need to be armed.

[00:42:42] Alex: And so, you know, my childhood, it was like Russian, uh, Russian media saying that the, um, uh, rebel sank is a Republican Russia ons and they were shown as, uh, as terrorist. You know, the core narrative was we are fighting terror. and, uh, now we see the attractions by terrorists fighting every nation that just want to be free.

[00:43:10] Alex: So in 2014, our concept was it’s our protest. It’s what we do. Just leave us alone and we will be partners. We will not be cause as friends, what we can discuss something. We know Russian language now it’s, it’s kind of done. We, we are done with our past. And, um, that says come covered, goes, I believe, um, Russia buys this activity, cut all the tires to its culture from ukranian because how you imagine even not matter what outcome of the war is.

[00:43:45] Alex: Right. Uh, imagine I know someone with Russia, we are colleagues in the past. So I had colleagues in the past and we discussed this, um, historical period and he says, so she. Uh, well, we had issues about sanctions, so apple pay didn’t work. And another person said, uh, well, my parents died. How do we imagine that discussion?

[00:44:07] Alex: It’s um, kind of get to its end. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I guys, I understand. It’s hard topics. That’s why I’m discussing them. It’s war is not easy topic and we, we are getting perspective. Uh, and I understand it easy. Uh, it’s not easy to hear, but, uh, it knows that I wanted to make a take on, uh, common culture. So, so we kind of understand each other when we say about common culture.

[00:44:36] Alex: Yes. We have something in common from Russian empire, from Soviet union, but it’s that we as Ukrainians, we understand Russian and know something about Russian culture. It’s not that Russian’s no Ukrainian and understand Ukrainian culture. if people person from bill will speak to me in bill Russian and I will speak in Ukrainian, we will understand each other.

[00:44:57] Alex: Totally. It’s like 80% of similar, uh, Lexis with Russian. It’s not the case. It’s just, we know Russian it’s. No, our cultures are integrated is that we have a part of Russian culture integrated, not, not opposite.

[00:45:14] Angela: so that’s a really good distinction actually. Um, yeah, I hadn’t thought about it that way, but that makes total sense because of the Russification and whatnot.

[00:45:25] Angela: Um, wow.

[00:45:26] Jesse: So obviously this has been a really, um, heavy episode, but thank you, Alex, for taking us through all of these topics. I think it’s just really important. Why we wanted at the beginning to have both sides represented. So thank you for volunteering your time and, um, being open with us about what’s what’s happening right now, um, on the ground, we wanted to end the episode and just ask you, like, what’s the best way for somebody listening to our podcast right now to help you guys in, in

[00:45:55] Alex: this war effort.

[00:45:57] Alex: First of all, big sent to everyone who, uh, stepped into the topic that’s, uh, kind of big support. So, uh, sheen, I would say, donate to Ukrainian army or push your governments to help us more and stuff like that and stuff like that. But, uh, that seems, um, up to government and for us as a people, uh, just to understand the war is not only that images that you see, it’s actually peoples life destroyed from both sides actually.

[00:46:26] Alex: And, um, just keep that in mind. Uh, maybe the best outcome is, um, when, when people see refugees right. Or something like that. So treat them nice because, uh, their situation is really best. So I would say it’s, uh, it’s the best way, uh, to support us as Ukrainians. So we are not victims victims this time. We are kind of pushing back, uh, as called as, um, As possible.

[00:46:54] Alex: And when people around the world understand what the case is really about, then it’s, it’s the best support for us because this is the way how people can affect their government. So governments really represent people, you know,

[00:47:08] Angela: while listeners you heard Alex, best way to support is to keep talking about it.

[00:47:14] Angela: Stay informed. And be loud, um, so that hopefully our government will also help in, in a stronger way. Um, I would say to help, uh, with what’s going on there and hopefully we see a close to the situation sometime in the near future, though. None of us have a crystal ball. Um, if you have additional questions for Alex, We’ll see if he has time and energy to respond to you, but you can write us in what those questions are at.

[00:47:48] Angela: Tell us where you’re from@gmail.com or comment on our social, because we will be posting lots of clips from this episode as well. Maybe Alex will even engage with you directly on TikTok. like he did, um, for our first clips. Um, Alex, thank you so much for joining us. Truly. This was really enlightening.

[00:48:08] Angela: Heavy conversation, but really important to have, and really special to have firsthand experience. So thank you. Thank

[00:48:15] Alex: you so much. Yes. Thank you for inviting me. And so, yeah, that’s, that was a hard to talk hard to hear, uh, but necessary to do. Right. But, um, So thank you guys. Of course,

[00:48:27] Angela: listeners come back next week.

[00:48:28] Angela: We’ll have another episode for you then, but until then,

Note: Transcript fully created by automated AI

[00:00:00] Angela: Hey everyone. I’m Angela Lin.

[00:00:02] Jesse: And I’m Jesse Lin. And welcome back to, but where are you really? From this week? We hope to talk to. You for hopefully the last time about COVID 19. Oh, I was like,

[00:00:12] Angela: what is this set up? We hope to talk to you for the last time period

[00:00:18] Jesse: about COVID 19. Um, it’s been two years since the pandemic began and you know, we’ve discussed it.

[00:00:26] Jesse: In specific episodes, we’ve discussed it tangentially throughout other episodes. And we thought it would be interesting to do a two year look back and hopefully there will be no more serious issues around this to really discuss. But, um, maybe a question to you to start off. Angela. When was your, if you remember.

[00:00:45] Jesse: COVID date where people were like, Nope, no more coming in, no more doing nothing. Stay at home. We

[00:00:51] Angela: were, I mean, I was gonna say we were relatively late, but I guess that’s all relative. Um, we closed like second week of March, I think because, and I, I call that slow even though I’m pretty sure when I talk to other people, it’s around the same time.

[00:01:08] Angela: Most people kind. Were stuck at home, but I call it slow because I was in the bay area and it was all like Google, Facebook, you know, all the like tech companies that are the most, uh, that are the fastest with those kinds of decisions. So like they had all closed like a week prior to Ubisoft at the time, which is where I was working at the time.

[00:01:31] Angela: Um, and. We just like held out forever because we were one of those companies that like, was not comfortable with remote work generally before the pandemic. And they were like, this is not gonna be a thing. Like we don’t need to do this. And then they did not close until there’s like one cafe that was close to our office that like everyone went to.

[00:01:54] Angela: Day for lunch. And one of the employees there got COVID and stuff like

[00:01:58] Jesse: an

[00:01:59] Angela: Uber employee of the cafe. Okay. But because so many UVAs, soft employees got lunch there daily, they were like, oh, it’s probably in our best interest. So, yeah. Wow. How

[00:02:12] Jesse: about you? Do you remember? I believe, I believe mine was March the.

[00:02:18] Jesse: Or the 12th, it was a Friday mm-hmm , um, I’m actually surprised that you guys closed so late because at the time I was working for a Polish company and the, and the information came from HQ, that was like, all the offices are closing because all the offices in Poland are closing. So they just kind of made it a global mandate to just make it easier for everybody to have consistency across the board.

[00:02:41] Jesse: And, um, I’m surprised because IAS a French company, I would assume that they would.

[00:02:46] Angela: Uh, it sounds weird. I mean, France is also

[00:02:50] Jesse: weird. That’s true. They’re very, um, uh, Viv LA Republic freedoms.

[00:02:56] Angela: Not really, because once they shut down, they were like really cracked down, shut down. Oh yeah. Like I don’t remember the timeframe of when the French people, we did not do a company wide.

[00:03:07] Angela: They let every region make that decision because the case count was different in every country. So like SF made its own decision, which is the north America hub. And then, uh, Paris made its own decision. Fran, uh, France, but once France shut down, it was like, every time we talked to them, they were like, oh, we have curfew at like 6:00 PM.

[00:03:27] Angela: I gotta like jet out of the office because otherwise I wouldn’t get fined. I’m like, why are you even in the office then? Why would you risk that? Yeah,

[00:03:37] Jesse: that’s crazy. Well, I just, I meant like people were very like similar to hear people were very up in arms about. I, I feel like, cuz they’re very like we’re our personal rights to be able to like go wherever we,

[00:03:47] Angela: well, I think there’s a spectrum there.

[00:03:51] Angela: I don’t think people were like that in the beginning because everyone mm-hmm really thought it was like contagion the movie, we all thought it was like airborne. And like at any point you can capture it. We’re scared. Yeah. Die. Yeah. Like, so I don’t think anyone was like, fuck this. I’m not wearing a mask.

[00:04:09] Angela: And. Beginning. I think everyone was like hiding in the beginning and I’m pretty sure most people bought into the whole, like two weeks of flat in the curve thing that everyone was, uh, oh, in the

[00:04:22] Jesse: beginning. No, I feel like there was not, not in France, but I feel like here there was heavy opposition to that.

[00:04:28] Jesse: People were like, we don’t wanna do that. We don’t wanna close for two weeks. We don’t wanna lose business for two weeks. Like, people were very adamant against it, even though like generally. You were you’re correct. I think generally, most people were like, okay, yeah, that’s fine. Two weeks we’ll stay at home.

[00:04:44] Jesse: Like things will return to normal. That’s like a good, um, that’s like a good trade off, but I remember distinctly, like it was not uniform across the states. Like some states were like, we’re not doing that at all. People don’t want that. And so it was like, Piecemeal the way that you’re describing it. So like some people, some areas did close.

[00:05:02] Jesse: I did not, but it all kind of did happened like at different times and different dates, which kind of defeats the purpose because then people were like, moving around during your shutdown. We were moving around during someone else’s shutdown. Like it just, yeah.

[00:05:16] Angela: I mean, not much has changed in that regard.

[00:05:18] Angela: Everything is still state by state county, by county city by city it’s it’s wonky. Yeah. Yeah. It’s why this should never work though. Let’s let’s just like put that out there. It’s like, it’s weird because we basically took, um, inspiration from China. Like. That’s where the shutdown idea came from is because China, it started in China and then they, they did that, but China’s a completely different country to the us.

[00:05:43] Angela: So like whether or not you believe they were successful, because apparently right now there’s cases are like skyrocketing and they’re back in quarantine, like. Crazy shutdown times, but like in the beginning it seemed like, oh, they actually like got a grasp on this, like very quickly. And I think that was why there was this like widespread governmental us side decision to say like, oh, okay.

[00:06:05] Angela: We could, we could like, theoretically. Flatten the curve in two weeks, if we like, actually just do this thing, cuz we saw it happen in China. Well, that was totally different. They like literally locked people up and like had police like take away their phones and like do crazy shit versus here. Like you said, it was like everyone kind like made different decisions and there was not that enforced.

[00:06:24] Angela: It was like, you can still go outside and like

[00:06:26] Jesse: I, the government doesn’t even have the power to do that here. No. So it’s like not feasible. Mm-hmm but I do think that the, um, China has probably the most. I mean, they have the it’s the epicenter of it, right. Mm-hmm I would say though, they also have probably the most funny content from it because of their authoritarian.

[00:06:46] Jesse: Checkdown fun content. No, like, you know, the, the lady who, um, there’s like, there’s these things that come out, there’s like lady who, um, She went on a first date with this guy. She went to his house. Oh yeah. And she got stuck there and now they’re like, aren’t they like married. Yeah. Now they’re married.

[00:07:01] Jesse: They’re married. Yeah. And then recently I saw this other thing where these people were stuck in like a hot pot restaurant and they couldn’t leave. And so she was like, I’m just eating a hot pot every day. And

[00:07:14] Angela: I’m surprised that they still had food

[00:07:17] Jesse: in there after like, I had like a lot of frozen.

[00:07:20] Angela: Probably well of frozen, I guess, but if it was like a full restaurant and they were in there for two years or whatever the fuck.

[00:07:26] Jesse: No, it, I think it was like a short, maybe like a one week, two week 10.

Oh,

[00:07:30] Angela: okay. Okay. Down duration.

[00:07:31] Angela: I’m sick of eating hot, but

[00:07:35] Jesse: yeah. Amazing. It’s it’s crazy. I mean, in all seriousness, no, I, I do think that it’s been, it’s just been an incredibly strange. To be alive and just seeing what’s been happening, considering that a lot of people have died from COVID and it seems like collectively there were no lessons learned.

[00:07:59] Jesse: at least, at least how I see it. I think everyone’s just cause I like what, like,

[00:08:04] Angela: so I mean, yeah, I’m not sure there is you’re right. I don’t think there is a universal takeaway because. everywhere in the us. Like, forget the us. We’re not Republican again. We’re so self-centered right. Yeah. Like the globe, everyone around the world did something different.

[00:08:20] Angela: Yeah. And like, I mean, when you look at the data, a lot of places have kind of similar case slash death counts. Um, you know, Based on once you adjust for population size. So regardless of like what they did, I don’t really think we totally figured out the like one thing that would like, if something like this happened again, like we’d like just pull out that one magic thing and it would like solve it again.

[00:08:48] Angela: I think it would still be pretty

[00:08:49] Jesse: messy. Yeah. It’s. I think like, it, it, it really is super different as you mentioned. Um, and nobody has done it very well. I mean, like with the, with the exception of those countries that were initially pursuing like zero COVID where they were like, we’re not letting anyone in like that kind like that was,

[00:09:12] Angela: did it it just slowed them down because Taiwan, for example, was one of those countries.

[00:09:19] Angela: And like, initially we were like, yay, Taiwan, but. No, it all it did was like push back their curve. So now they’re kind of like experiencing what we experienced a couple months back and similar with Japan and stuff. So it’s, I mean, it like made them have like a perfect record in the beginning, but I, I don’t think it’s true that they were like able to actually do any better than us in like the grand scheme of everything.

[00:09:43] Angela: Yeah. I just

[00:09:44] Jesse: feel like. That might have made sense in the beginning when nobody knew what it was, right. Like it should have been, I think, what everyone had done, because then you, you buy yourself a little time to figure out like, Hey, like how do I get resources for this? How do I staff up hospitals for this?

[00:10:00] Jesse: Like, how do do all this, like public health shit. And then like, obviously there’s no way to keep everything close forever. You’ll let it kind of happen, but at least you’re prepared and it just kind of seemed like the time. The flagging, the two weeks time that we asked everyone to loan to borrow was wasted by the government.

[00:10:19] Jesse: Like nothing was done during this time to prepare the public for longer period of shittiness. So,

[00:10:28] Angela: I mean, Hey look, I’ve. Yeah, we have to lay out the cards as they are in terms of like, nobody knew what this was. And so like the government definitely didn’t really know what the F they were doing in the beginning, or even really now, but like, it, it.

[00:10:43] Angela: there’s kind of this like push pull, because I think a lot of the frustration in the last two years is that the policies kept changing, but kind of arbitrarily a lot of times. And there wasn’t like real justification for a lot of things. And a lot of things flip flopped, like the, you know, and it wasn’t like.

[00:11:03] Angela: Yeah. And it wasn’t like new data has come out. That’s like, decided this. It was like, oh, you just don’t need it anymore. Like a CDC says, or who says this, or like just do it. And like the two weeks have flatten in the curve. I agree with you there. Of course, like every state we’re talking to us now, but like every state was kind of like different and the way they approached it and like some were less into it than others.

[00:11:23] Angela: but the places that were into it, for example, I was in the bay area. It’s like extremely rah around that stuff. So they were like two weeks we can do it. Y’all and like, it was very like kumbaya for the two weeks because we really felt like, oh, oh, the government must know something that like two weeks, this is like magical number.

[00:11:42] Angela: And like, we’ll just like get through it if we like stand the two weeks. And then when the two weeks came and you realized like, this is not the end and there’s like an in, in definit. end goal here, then you’re like, I feel duped as F and like there was no, and then every, like, subsequent policy was kind of like that, where it was like, I don’t really see why we’re doing this.

[00:12:01] Angela: You’re just telling me we’re gonna do it. And it’s gonna like, do something good for us, but then I don’t get the result that you said we were gonna see. And it’s just like this endless cycling of that for the last two years.

[00:12:11] Jesse: Yeah. Yeah. I agree. And I just think, you know, in general, I, I feel like few people have given up, I’ve given up a little bit.

[00:12:20] Jesse: like, I’m still doing some of the things that this, the CDC recommends, but Mo for like, I stop. Alcohol wiping all my groceries and stuff like that.

[00:12:30] Angela: Oh, I had that a long time ago. I was so obsessive about it in the beginning. I was like really obsess. I

[00:12:35] Jesse: remember we had a text with you, me and Karen. And you sent a video that was like, this is how to sanitize your like GOs.

[00:12:43] Angela: I was like, oh my God guys. I was like, Yeah. I was like warm water, soap, washing every piece of fruit and vegetable that I brought in on top of like the, you know, Clorox wiping of like packaging, packaging and stuff. Yeah. It was a whole thing. I definitely thought, you know, we could die at any

[00:13:02] Jesse: moment. I mean, to be fair, you should always wash your fruits and vegetables before you consume

[00:13:07] Angela: anyways.

[00:13:08] Angela: Okay. Enough about that. Let’s talk about some other aspects. So obviously mental health was a big topic that we’ve kind of visited many times just around, still is still. We’ve talked about it several times, but I think it’s worth discussing again. I feel like there was definitely a curve of like, who was getting hit the hardest in terms of mental health from the beginning towards the end.

[00:13:34] Angela: Like, I feel like in the beginning. Okay. Okay. Don’t don’t shoot the messenger. I’m just saying like, um, in the beginning, the, the greatest sympathy, I think most people had was for like parents of any, any parent, because basically like all the schools first on daycares and whatever. And so you’re like, oh, that’s a mess.

[00:13:58] Angela: Like you have to like take care of your children all day and like be their teacher and. And work and yeah. Yeah. And then like iPad became babysitter anyways. So like in the beginning I felt like everyone was like very sympathetic towards all the parents. And then like, as the weeks went on, it’s not like that went away.

[00:14:15] Angela: I’m not saying it got easier for the parents, but I think there was this realization, like all the single people are like, Getting wrecked right now with mental health, because everyone who lives alone was like, so, so isolated that then there, I do remember this kind of like inflection point at work where we were like, how are you guys doing?

[00:14:36] Angela: You know, like the daily kind of check-ins. And like, at some point it was just like, oh shit, all the like single people are like, not doing so hot right now.

[00:14:46] Jesse: Let me tell you I was not single, but I didn’t see my partner for like months. And it was, I don’t even like, it was such a blip, you know, like when you go through like a really bad breakup and then like the few months after that, just as like you just like, I don’t, what was I, you were like on autopilot basically.

[00:15:07] Jesse: You’re like, what was I doing during that time? I don’t even know. And it was kinda like that where I was like, . I was pretending to live my life when my life, no longer beared any resemblance to my life. So I was like, and I feel like collectively coming out of that, like you’ve had to confront it, but people haven’t really had a chance to deal with it yet because it’s kind of like you come outta the pandemic and it’s like, okay.

[00:15:35] Jesse: Back to normal. There’s no like acknowledgement of the fact that. People just went through this like huge stretch of isolation where they have maybe they didn’t have social structures in place. Maybe they didn’t have the best, um, ways to check in with friends and family. And it’s kind of just like the whole thing was ignored from a, like a mental health emergency perspective.

[00:15:56] Angela: Totally. I, and. I think it hit everyone. I don’t wanna say equally, but I think it hit it’s fair to say it hit everyone. Like, I don’t think it’s true that like, even if you had family, like you had, you know, the nuclear family set up and you’d be like, totally fine at this point. I don’t think that’s true because even like I was living with, I still live with, but like, I think all the couples that were together, it also rocked them in a lot of ways.

[00:16:30] Angela: Like a lot of people broke up, got divorced, like lots of crazy shit went down, but it was also, it, it, it was this other struggle of basically like number one, do we really like each other as much as we think we do, because you’re like stuck with each other all day long. And then the other point being kind of like something I struggle with still because we’re remote kind.

[00:16:49] Angela: Indefinitely, um, you know, is like, how do I carve out space for myself when I’m literally with this person all day long? And sometimes you physically don’t have any space. Like in the beginning when we were like, literally you can’t leave your home or you might die feeling right. We were in a one bedroom.

[00:17:08] Angela: So I was working on the kitchen table, like kitchen, dining table, and he had a desk that was just like three feet away from me. And then there was no, like, it was literally like, I don’t have my own space. And then also I don’t have any like separation of work life because I just went from like dining table to the couch that was like half a foot away from the dining table.

[00:17:33] Angela: So it’s something I still struggle with is kind of. Look, I don’t not love you, but I need fucking me time sometimes. You know what I mean? Like, especially if I have like therapy or something that would, I have like twice a month, I’m like, I need, I wanna be alone. I don’t wanna like, have like shared space while I’m talking to my therapist.

[00:17:52] Angela: So there’s a lot of like little things like that, that we’ve all had to kind of like figure out how to deal with, and that have taken the toll on us, like mentally, emotionally, and like relationships wise all

[00:18:05] Jesse: around. No. I agree. I, I think everyone, everyone had a different problem during this time, as you were saying, like, if you’re with your family, like, because I remember my parents were.

[00:18:14] Jesse: Are you sure you don’t wanna like, come back here? Like we can just like, hang out together. I’m like, I am very certain that I will murder all of us. out there and live there for like, because it’s like, you, you’re just, I would’ve been doing exactly the same things as I was doing there, but with less freedom and more restrictions, my parents are older.

[00:18:34] Jesse: so I’m like, I don’t even like, I, I would be like literally shut in with them the whole time. Um, and then of course, like, as you mentioned, people who are living together or your family, you have like limited space. Like, it’s just crazy to be on top of each other all the time. Like, I don’t think people are meant to be hanging out.

[00:18:51] Jesse: Like even you’re a couple, like all the time together, that’s like too much. You need, you need to have like separate, independent things. Um, but what else was like wild about the pandemic? I feel like, I feel like the craziest thing that I experienced about the pandemic was just like the, mm, how would I say this?

[00:19:19] Jesse: Like how unlevel it was. in regards to people migrating in and out of the city. So like in New York, Manhattan basically just emptied out because that’s all transient. Um, people say, you know, people who are gonna come work for a few years and then go back to wherever they came from or they wanna move on from the city.

[00:19:40] Jesse: Um, But where I live, it’s mostly family. So like people were telling, like I was talking to friends, living in different parts of the city and they were like, oh, like, it’s crazy. Like it’s completely empty here. Like nobody is in the streets now. It’s kind of like, you know, the, what is it? Not the after tomorrow I’m legend kind of situation.

[00:19:59] Jesse: And I was like, oh, I was like, Kind of the same here, like same people walking around, same restaurants, open like same little busyness. So it was just really interesting to see like the dynamic of the city at play once something like this happened and then kind of see like how people like either disappeared or once somewhere else or stay put.

[00:20:19] Jesse: Um, but that was like the craziest thing, because you would, you could go to times square at that point and they’d be like,

[00:20:24] Angela: Yeah, I think you have like, um, the New York city version of the urban versus suburban, because technically you’re still in the city, I guess, but you’re in Queens. Oh. And like you said, you’re in like the area where like families live.

[00:20:42] Angela: So like, You’re basically the burbs for, you know, all intents and purposes in terms of like this migration that happened from COVID because I agree. It was like, um, bay area. I was directly in downtown San Francisco. It was, I am legend. It was like there, I saw two people outside the window that day, like in grand total and like, and the homeless population got crazier and crazier and still, still is, um, as a result of the pandemic.

[00:21:12] Angela: That I think will rock the city kind of. In the like coming years to come as, as a result of what happened during that period versus like so many people left, like straight up left and like went for not like you, no Manhattan versus Queens, but they went to like different states together, moved to like Texas, Colorado, like places where they can get land.

[00:21:37] Angela: And because people realize, like I don’t need to pay a million. Do you know my like $4,000 a month for rent in San Francisco when I don’t even have to go into the office and now nothing’s open and it’s a shithole here, whereas I could put that towards a mortgage and own a house that has a backyard and like have space for myself.

[00:21:59] Angela: Hey listeners, wondering how you can support us. The biggest way is by increasing our visibility by following us on Instagram at where are you from pod on TikTok at, but where are you really from subscribing to our YouTube channel under, but where are you really from podcast rating and reviewing us on apple podcasts and telling your friends the more people we can get to listen to the show, the more we can continue spotlighting different perspectives and.

[00:22:22] Angela: And if you feel so inclined, we’re also accepting donations@buymeacoffee.com slash where are you from? Thanks. Y’all

[00:22:30] Jesse: well, speaking about going back into the office, I do think that that is maybe one of the good things that came out of the pandemic, which is that like, I don’t know. I mean, like, I feel like everyone must have realized this before, but you kind of.

[00:22:45] Jesse: You assume it as part of the contract of working that you go to the office to work, but when the pandemic happened, it was kinda like, well, why do we go to the office to work? Like, it seems honestly, I’m like, it’s kind of wasteful. Like we’re just. We’re going to a building to do work. We can do anywhere else.

[00:23:03] Jesse: Like why

[00:23:05] Angela: exactly so, Hey, I’m a huge proponent of remote work ever since this ha you know, ever since the pandemic made it very clear to all of us, how the benefits of that. Like, but I don’t think it’s a perfect 10 out of 10. Like pros, obviously like no more commute, like more flexibility and ownership of your time, because let’s be real.

[00:23:28] Angela: No one is always working every minute of the day. Like there were plenty of times where I was just dicking around, like on Facebook, on Buzzfeed, whatever in between like meetings or like doing my work when I. I just didn’t have any work to do. It’s like, how can I argue that that was more productive than like being at home and like working on like this podcast or like, I don’t know, doing my laundry, just like doing things that like I needed to do anyway and fitting them into those moments that I didn’t need to be working.

[00:23:58] Angela: So definitely from that standpoint, I’m like a huge proponent of the work from home situation. Cuz you can like better manage your own time. I will say it doesn’t affect me personally, but like I do see that there is like, there are cons to it. So like, you know, at the time Yusof where I was working. They were very old school.

[00:24:19] Angela: They still very are old school, but they were very much like it’s not productive to be at home. Like. Real productivities in the office. And I disagree with that as like a blanket statement, but I do think there are situations where like in person is a lot more productive and that’s when it’s like, you’re doing like brainstorming, for example, where you have like a group and it’s like easier to be in the same room and like whiteboard things.

[00:24:47] Angela: And then like, you know, you’re feeding off of each other’s energy. Like we talked about the few episodes we got to record together. Totally different in person than when we do these virtual, just because of that energy that’s there. I think that’s the only time it’s productive is when, like you have the group that you need to do the specific thing you’re trying to do, like a brainstorm or meeting or negotiation, or like whatever.

[00:25:10] Angela: And you have to get them all in a room. I think the complication right now is that because all these companies have moved into like largely a hybrid model. Like a lot of places aren’t saying you can be remote completely. You need to still come in like one or two times a week or whatever, but they don’t say like, you all have to come in one or two times a week.

[00:25:29] Angela: It literally is like, as long as you clock in one or two times a week, that’s like largely the policies I’ve been hearing. And I think that’s so counterproductive because then it really is just kind of like clocking for the sake of saying you clocked in. But like, if not everyone is there that you need, you will still have people zooming in.

[00:25:47] Angela: And then it’s like, why the fuck am I in the office then? Because I’m still like on my I’m at my desk. But like on my laptop doing the video conference still, as opposed to, if you said. Everyone on the team has to come in on Mondays and Tuesdays, and then everyone can be row otherwise. But I just don’t think that’s like the, the situation.

[00:26:06] Angela: And like my brother started a new job. um, a few months ago and he moved to new city for it. And like, I see how tough it is for him, because he’s like, I don’t have any friends here. And like, I thought my coworkers were gonna be my friends, but like, they’ve all lived here for several years. So they have like their own friend groups and then we don’t have like set days that we go in.

[00:26:27] Angela: So then we’re just video conferencing and I don’t have. There’s no way to make that connection with people. So then he’s kind of like stuck without that group. And I see that for sure, in like a lot of people who got new jobs during the pandemic, because it’s like, how do you really make that connection?

[00:26:45] Angela: Especially in the beginning when you’re like brand new, when you don’t meet people in real life. .

[00:26:51] Jesse: Yeah, I agree with you and yeah. Uh, my office parable story thing. Um, it’s not that I also do wanna go into the office because similar to what you were saying about spaces, I like to have a separate space sometimes to not be doing work at home because sometimes it’s very stressful to be like in your home space and then to get off of work, but then still be in your home space.

[00:27:15] Jesse: So I do like this idea of like a hybrid model. so right now I’m not, I don’t remember. I’ve told you, but our company is, um, it’s still kind of like, you can go in if you want. There’s no. There’s no mandate, but by April something, something mid April, um, they’re going to start doing this thing where it’s hybrid and they’re asking employees to come in Tuesday through Thursday.

[00:27:36] Jesse: They’re still saying it’s optional for like, those people who feel really uncomfortable. Like they have young children or they have whatever, whatever commitments that they have. Um, but they’re asking people to start coming. Tuesday Wednesday, Thursday. So it will be like companywide situation. And, um, I agree with you.

[00:27:54] Jesse: It’s been really, really hard to like make connections with people. Um, and actually that, I think that’s one of the main things that, um, That are, it’s kind of about mental health that people have not really figured out how to do, especially companies, which is like how to foster that kind of like teammate comradery for new hires, because it just is so much harder.

[00:28:14] Jesse: And, you know, the work that we’re involved in, or at least in tech, from my perspective, it’s like multidisciplinary work. Like you’re working with many different people from many different teams and that’s really hard to crack. Digitally cuz it can be just really awkward to like blind DM someone on slack, um, for something versus like in the office, I could always ask one of my coworkers and be like, Hey, do you know?

[00:28:42] Jesse: So and so in product, like I need to go ask them about this question and, and someone, someone will be like, yes. And then you get this kind of like personal introductions to this person. It’s less awkward. You already kinda have this like in with them. So I definitely feel like that’s one of those things that’s been like really, really difficult to, to deal with.

[00:29:01] Jesse: Um, and that going in person has actually helped a little bit. So like, I’ve only seen like maybe a handful of some of my teammates, but for those that I’ve seen at least once or twice in person, I feel a little more comfortable saying certain things. I, I would normally. In internet messages, but I wouldn’t say to like someone I’ve never met even a hundred percent, like it’s just like jokey things that are like, not really, it’s not very serious, but it’s stuff that allows your personality to shine through to the other person.

[00:29:32] Jesse: Yes. That you can’t say unless you’ve met them in person. It’s just so awkward. Yeah.

[00:29:37] Angela: Dude. I don’t know if I already said this in our last cuz we reflected on COVID like a year ago or whatever when, when we thought that was the end of it, uh, Les anyways. Um, but there was, there was a moment where, okay, because we were like full remote and like in the beginning our company was like everyone video all the time because we need to.

[00:30:01] Angela: Feel like this is in person as much as possible. And then after a while people gave up and like half the people didn’t have their videos. That’s and, um, I like , I remember there was one video conference where I had my video on and I had just like the biggest kind of like bitch face where I like, or I’d rolled my eyes or something.

[00:30:24] Angela: And my like work bay texted me or chatted me on the side. And she was like, lulls. Face right now. And I was like, girl, you have no idea how often I make this face. It’s because I we’re remote that you are not familiar with this face because if we were in office all day, you’d see it a million times a day.

[00:30:45] Angela: Like, so for better or for worse, because I, as someone who’s like extremely expressive with. Face I’m like really bad at hiding what I’m feeling at any given point. It’s like, it was good in that sense, because when I was genuinely like you’re fucking idiot is like what I was thinking. No one could tell half the time.

[00:31:07] Jesse: I mean, honestly, I will, I, I have to agree, like, um, that is one of the funniest things about doing these like zoom things is whenever we have an all zoom where I can actually see all the participants, because sometimes you have like the, everybody zoom and it’s like locked. It’s just presenter. You don’t see.

[00:31:22] Jesse: Yeah. Yeah. Anything else? Um, I just like looking at everyone, like what they’re doing. Like I just randomly scroll through and I’m like, who’s doing what? Like, um, this one time I was looking at this one girl and I thought her feed was frozen. No, she was just sitting there perfectly still for like the entire time I was like, this lady is a robot.

[00:31:41] Jesse: It was like five minutes. She was just like, I thought her thing was frozen is crazy. Um, and then also really enjoy like when there are like really large zoom calls, but people forget. Mute themselves. Oh God. So then it’s like, duh, like, and the like, usually it’s like the presenter doesn’t know how to turn it off either.

[00:32:04] Jesse: So then they’re just like, so it’s like, whoever’s not on mute. Can you just mute yourself? And I’m like, just mute everybody. You have the power.

[00:32:15] Angela: There are so many of those great moments. God.

[00:32:22] Jesse: maybe what are some, like, not highlights that happened? Not highlights. Yeah, not highlights.

[00:32:29] Angela: I mean, my wedding got pushed, but yeah, it did happen though. And it was, it did happen. So that’s a negative and a positive. Yeah. Yeah, it did happen and it wasn’t actually as different as. Um, I anticipated it being in terms of like the number of people who showed up and blah, blah.

[00:32:45] Angela: Yeah. Um, that was probably like the biggest life one that came from it.

[00:32:51] Jesse: I’m also thinking, yeah, life ones wise. I feel like I just got a lot more stressed. In, uh, towards the period of pandemic where things went back to normal, like 2 20, 21, but we were still working and it became one of those things where it’s like, um, frog being boiled, frog, frog, being boiled in a pot where I was like, the heat at work was like slowly turning up.

[00:33:15] Jesse: And I, and because you’re at home, you just kind of like, oh, you know, I’m doing what you’re saying, where it’s like, I’m on Facebook. Sometimes I’m on doing other things sometimes. But then I came to realize, no, like I’m actually basically working like nine to six now. And I didn’t do that at the office, at the office.

[00:33:31] Jesse: Even though you work nine to six, you go to lunch, you like blah, blah, with your coworkers, you would go, if you were, we were in a WeWork for quite some time, you would go do something in the WeWork. Um, and it made me like really, really stressed. and I didn’t realize it for the longest time. And then I was like, oh, and then like I was telling like my managers kind of about it.

[00:33:54] Jesse: And they were like, they also didn’t realize it. And I was like, Hey, like, by the way, this probably isn’t just me. It’s like a lot of other people it’s just not telling you because they don’t wanna feel like, um, they’re not up to the, up to the job or they don’t wanna expose this to you. But it like was happening to a lot of people like this burnout.

[00:34:13] Jesse: So, yeah, that was probably like the biggest negative that I was just like, oh, we’re into dirt. Run into the.

[00:34:17] Angela: Yeah, a hundred percent. I also feel like there were, um, like one thing that factored into me also doing that is that a lot of the people I worked with were parents of young children. So they naturally had like, kind of different schedules because they’re like, I need to like take my kid to daycare or it’s like, literally there’s no such thing as daycare right now.

[00:34:38] Angela: And like my wife and I are like, Taking hours shifts. Yeah. To watch the kid. So then they’d like check out at like three or four or whatever, but then like reply to emails that are like important at like 8:00 PM. And then it kind of felt like, oh, I have to respond to this. Or like, keep it moving if I don’t respond right now or until the morning, then it’s like, I’m the hold up.

[00:34:59] Angela: Even though really, it was not me. So that contributed to me working a lot. And then also like digital nomad life. Okay. So I had been. We left San Francisco last may. And like, I was still working at Yusof the whole time until November. So we were just traveling, not like for vacation, but like we were in a different city every month, I think from that point on.

[00:35:24] Angela: So, and sometimes I was on the east coast. I was in Europe for a little bit because it was like ahead of my wedding. And like, my work was really busy cuz I was launching. Far Christ six, like kind of by myself. Um, so like I made it even harder for me because when I was on the east coast, for example, I was like in Toronto for a while.

[00:35:46] Angela: I was in New York for a while, or, no, sorry. New York was after I quit. Um, but I was in Toronto for a month and I was like, oh great. I get like three extra hours. Uh, I’ll like start three hours earlier than everyone so that I can like have me time because I felt like my day was slammed with meetings. And so I couldn’t like do actual work.

[00:36:06] Angela: So I was like, this is great. This is like, before everyone wakes up, I can like do these things, but then all it did was add three hours. Job because I didn’t stop at like 3:00 PM east coast time. I stopped at like six, 7:00 PM Pacific time. So I was like, wait a second. I started at like 7:00 AM, local and ended at 10:00 PM.

[00:36:28] Angela: Local. How did this happen to me? Oh my God. Like what has happened? Absolutely not.

[00:36:33] Jesse: Yeah. Oh, it’s so rough.

[00:36:36] Angela: It’s hard when you can’t mentally make those like hard stops for yourself. Yeah. And it, no one is going to tell you to do that hard stuff or be able to convince you to make that hard stop except for yourself.

[00:36:48] Angela: So when you can’t enforce it, you’re just like, well, here I am in this spiral that I can’t get myself out of.

[00:36:54] Jesse: I feel like that it’s very glamorized, but I think it’s what you’re describing to me is the same pitfall as unlimited vacation. Yes. Which is like, sure, you can take unlimited vacation. You just have to figure out how to do your 80 hour.

[00:37:09] Jesse: With one week missing from your one from your

[00:37:11] Angela: thing and deal with the like unspoken guilt trip. That exactly boss probably gives you. Yeah. Oh

[00:37:17] Jesse: my gosh. If I ever, so we don’t have unlimited vacation, whatever, but if I ever landed a company there, I will feel no guilt. We can a hundred percent would not.

[00:37:28] Angela: Yeah, I overrid that a little bit when I was, cuz I didn’t have that at Yusof but Adobe I did and I. A consultant then. So I was like incredibly burnt out and. Things were project based. It was like client project based. So it was like sprints of like between three to like 12 week projects. So I did take like, I’d be like this project’s over, I’m taking a week off and like, you know, recycle.

[00:37:54] Angela: And like, my bosses tried to give me shit about it, but I was like, excuse me, do you want me to like, come back, do you want me to stay burnt out? Or do you want me to come back refresh? And then you can sign me on another impossible client project for me to like rock and then rinse and repeat. So I, I took advantage of it, but it was like, they laid it on heavy, still the guilt, but I was like, I’m doing this goodbye.

[00:38:16] Angela: Like, no, that’s rude.

[00:38:17] Jesse: I would be like, I’m sorry. Like, if you didn’t want me to take unlimited PTO, you shouldn’t offer me unlimited PTO. Like that’s

[00:38:25] Angela: because your people manager and the CEO of the company who made that decision, or like completely different levels and needs still, still,

[00:38:33] Jesse: still the. Yeah. Um, I will also say, I feel like the whole geopolitical situation worsened quite a bit during the pandemic.

[00:38:42] Jesse: Like, not that everything was like, you know, you know, rah, rah, everyone was like best friends before the pandemic, but the pandemic really kind of was like through like, was the monkey wrench through a monkey wrench into. Was the mat, the little spark that lit everything up in my opinion. Um, because it just showed like, when it comes down to it, each country is like out for themselves, you know, fuck before you end thing, fuck the NATO.

[00:39:12] Jesse: Fuck the, whatever. A, a ZN like nation group. Like everyone’s just kinda like it’s me or you

[00:39:19] Angela: it’s so true, dude. It’s so true. It. Kind of one of the like subtle ways that I felt that was because every country is still deciding its own like border policy right now with COVID and there’s like, Basically like every week, every country publishes a like band list of countries.

[00:39:39] Angela: And when you see your own country on that list, you’re just like, damn. Y’all like, it just like, feels really shitty. And you’re like, I guess I am just boiled down to like my nationality. That’s all I am. So yeah, I agree. It’s uh, it definitely made those lines very clear. Yeah.

[00:39:56] Jesse: So maybe the million dollar question is, will we ever exit the COVID.

[00:40:04] Jesse: bring out that crystal ball

[00:40:06] Angela: look, my opinion is that favor? My, my opinion is that the will we ever be out of it will be defined by every individual person. I think from like a global or let’s just restrict a us at least, you know, let’s. Countrywide standpoint. I think we’re pretty much out of it in terms of like, like you said, most people gave up at this point, right?

[00:40:35] Angela: Where like, like most states or all states, I forget if the mass mandate drop was in federal or if it was like state by state, but a lot of states have dropped their mass mandates and like, you know, yes. The like get vaccinated programs are like still running ads and whatever, but like everyone who’s gonna get vaccin.

[00:40:54] Angela: Has already gotten vaccinated and like, it’s gonna be very difficult to convince the people who still haven’t been facts that they should do it. So it’s kind of like, we’ve hit this like saturation point of like, people are like, have done what they think they need to do and are kind of over it. But everyone has a different threshold of like risk tolerance and like comfort with adjusting back to normal life.

[00:41:17] Angela: So I. in terms of like the government being able to like totally control what people are gonna do in response to COVID it’s done. Like we’re, we’re like out of it in that sense, unless there’s like a variant that comes, that’s like worse than the original strain. Right. Which is like not something we’ve seen thus far, it’s gotten weaker.

[00:41:37] Angela: Um, Yeah, barring something like that. There’s like governments got shit on us anymore, but every individual person, like, you know, we have different friends that have different levels of comfort and like, it, I think we’ve talked about this before. It just like largely comes down to like, when you wanna hang out with each other, like.

[00:41:55] Angela: What is gonna make the other person most comfortable. So like who, whoever has like the greatest risk tolerance or sorry, risk aversion kind of catering to that, even if it’s not what like the CDC says or whatever. Um, if you wanna actually hang out with those people. I, I think for that, it’s like, it’s not based on science or like whatever the guidance is.

[00:42:20] Angela: It’s really based on like personal touching feelings. Comfort.

[00:42:23] Jesse: Yeah. I, so for me, I think we were out of it officially when I, when all the vaccine show was done, like when I was fully vaccinated, I was like, I’m not because here’s the thing is that at the very beginning, they were like, we’re doing all this crazy shit.

[00:42:39] Jesse: Mm-hmm so that we can buy time to produce this vaccine so that everyone get vaccinated. And then like things will go back to normal. Right. Mm-hmm so when the vaccine came out, I got vaccinated. I was like, I did my. I spent my time in my apartment. I did the lockdown. I wore my mask. I did like, uh, like, you know, yeah, if I’m gonna get it, I’m gonna get it.

[00:42:58] Jesse: Like, what am I gonna do? Like, I can’t just keep doing nothing yeah. For the rest of my life. Um, but I do agree with you on this, on the other assessment piece of it. I, I think it’s made everyone more, um, aware of what other people. Risk specials are, and just be a little bit more respectful of that.

[00:43:17] Jesse: Obviously there are like some situations where I’m like, you’re making this really, really hard. Yeah. Like to hang out with you and like, um, I think that part of any good friendship is honest communication about things like that. Yeah. So like, I will be like, this is like a little bit much for me. Like, is there a way we do this differently?

[00:43:33] Jesse: That’s like, not so like onerous, like maybe we shouldn’t meet up in real life if you’re gonna do like all these, like. Things like maybe she just zoom or, um, I don’t know, figure something else out where we can still connect, but it’s like, not so like, you know, uh, onerous, but yeah. Yeah. I don’t, I also don’t think, I mean, it’s endemic now, right?

[00:43:53] Jesse: So it’s like not gonna go anywhere. Um, I just think that the out of it part, meaning like when things go back to normal, normal-ish really just depends on the continued. Pressure from not pressure, but like continued efforts from the government to like track and make sure that we are responding to effectively different variants and things like that.

[00:44:19] Jesse: That, yeah, that that’s exactly because like, we’re not gonna be outta it because like it’s like. they don’t, there’s no political will to do that. It’s unpopular to do that. People don’t want to hear about another thing. They don’t wanna do another lockdown. They don’t wanna do nothing like that. So, but I feel like things won’t go back to normal unless you can safely assure people that the public space will remain normal.

[00:44:43] Jesse: And the only way to do that is to make sure that COVID does not become a huge thing again, in the public space. Yeah. Well, this was, uh, I think a very, um, Exhaustive

[00:44:56] Angela: exhaustive and exhausting. Maybe

[00:44:59] Jesse: do your review of COVID. Yes. Let’s say you to move to the fortune cookie. Alrighty. So for the fortune cookie, because we always like to end on a sweet treat.

[00:45:11] Jesse: We wanted to talk about some long lasting positive impact or something that we continued from the pandemic. Yeah. Um, I need some time to think

[00:45:24] Angela: about this. Okay. I can go first. I can go first. I have two things, one obvious one, obviously this PA this podcast, which we’ve just discussed, add nauseam. So I won’t the labor the point, but yeah, this shit’s not going away.

[00:45:37] Angela: and it’s my full time shit now. So I’m very happy that this came out of that, cuz it started as a hobby. But the second thing I think honestly is like the whole working. Shook all of our priorities to be much clearer in terms of like, what is important in your life. And I do think I’m very grateful to have learned that.

[00:46:01] Angela: The people I care about the most and spending time with those people is, should be like one of my top priorities. So like that’s family and like getting my relationship right with Ramon and like seeing my friends as much as possible. And like, if people are willing to travel, for example, like trying to make more trips to like see people and like actually spend time with them and check in with them.

[00:46:22] Angela: Um, I think really recognizing that and like continuing to invest in those relationships. Is something I’m gonna take away and like, definitely with my family, because it’s. You know, it’s sad. We keep talking about it. It’s like that one realization for me was like, man, my parents are getting like old and like, time is limited.

[00:46:43] Angela: And like time with their mental capacity is being strong is also limited, not even death. Right. It’s just like, there’s all these factors. I’m like, okay, I need to like invest in these things. And it will be one of the most important things I can do is like foster all of the relationships I care about. So those are mine.

[00:47:03] Jesse: Yes, that makes sense. I, I have to agree with that. Um, and I will add maybe like a more personal one that, that I feel like maybe a lot of people go through is that I realized I had a lot of work to do on myself to, because you’re alone for that whole period of time. And I was like, I feel they just like brought up all these emotions and like feelings about yourself and made me realize how much more work I had to do on like my self confidence.

[00:47:31] Jesse: My. Image, like all these different things. And, um, I did something that I realized I need to work on and will continue to work on. And is why like a few episodes ago I was saying like, what’s the thing that I need to do for this year. I need to be kinder to myself. Um, so it’s like building a relationship with others is really important priority wise, but also think like internally with yourself.

[00:47:54] Angela: Totally love that. Yes. Yes. All right. Well, listeners, I’m not sure if you feel happier or more upset after listening to a talk about COVID for the last 45 minutes or whatever you can rerate. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes. So write us in DMS comment, whatever you want. Reach out to us and let us know what you thought about this episode, or if there were certain things that you experienced during the peak or continuation of COVID that made you really angry, sad, happy, unexpectedly, you know, grateful for whatever it may be.

[00:48:35] Angela: Uh, if you wanna email us, it’s tell us where you’re from@gmail.com. Otherwise find us on social, um, on Instagram and TikTok, but where are you really? Various places, um, and to come back next week because we’ll have another episode for you then, and until then, bitches.

Note: Transcript fully created by automated AI

[00:00:00] Jesse: Hi everyone. I’m Jesse Lin

[00:00:01] Angela: And I’m Angela Lin. And welcome back to another episode of, but where are you really from today? We’re really excited. We’re talking to you about a brand new movie that is out today, April 8th, um, everything everywhere all at once, which is. Honestly, I think one of the best movies I’ve seen maybe ever is that like too hive praised

[00:00:25] Jesse: David?

[00:00:26] Jesse: I don’t think so. I can’t imagine. I don’t recall anything that I’ve seen recently where I’m like, oh my God, I’m just so blown away. Yeah. Like I would say like, at least in the past five years, like hands down, best movie I’ve seen.

[00:00:38] Angela: agreed. Yeah. So we are super excited and we’ll talk about all of our thoughts on like what stood out to us and all that stuff.

[00:00:45] Angela: Um, but did want to give a little bit more context as to why we’re covering this movie? Number one, we, I think we were both already like, definitely gonna watch this movie when it came out 100%. Um, yeah. For those who have not seen any commercials yet, it’s the one starring Michelle, yo, the legendary Michelle, yo um, in this like multi.

[00:01:07] Angela: Type movie. And I think that’s as much as I wanna like give on the plot mm-hmm um, but it’s from a 24, if you know that production house, they only make like really edgy, cool movies. So I like when I first saw a trailer, I was. This is gonna be interesting, no matter whatever the plot is. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

[00:01:23] Angela: So we both were already gonna watch it, but, um, I think a few weeks ago we received an email from the PR agency that’s helping to market this movie and they were like, Hey, we’ve been like following your stuff. And we feel like you guys would be a good fit to like invite to an advanced screening and hopefully cover the movie on your show.

[00:01:45] Angela: And I was like a very flatter that we got this email. I was like, you’ve been following us. Okay. Like, get it. So we were very excited and Jessie and I happened to both because we’re on opposite coast obviously. So we’re kind of like coordinating how we’re gonna watch it. But. we both happened to watch it the same night, um, in our respective locations.

[00:02:08] Angela: And we both absolutely loved it. Yes. So we’re really excited to talk about it today because it literally just came out. We don’t wanna give away spoilers because honestly, like we said, it’s like, Probably one of the best movies you’ve seen in a long time. So we really don’t wanna like ruin that for you.

[00:02:26] Jesse: I will say it’s a little hard to spoil. There’s so many distinct parts that I feel like if you were trying to explain it, Somebody would be like, what is happening now? But together it makes a lot of sense.

[00:02:38] Angela: Yes. Yeah. You’re right. But I will say because before you watched it, I know that you read at least like one article about it and you sent it to me.

[00:02:47] Angela: And I started reading it. I was like, wait, I don’t want any of this. I don’t wanna know anything. I just wanna like go in and watch it 100%. So. I think what we’re gonna try to do with this episode is kind of like respect wherever you lie on that spectrum of like how much you do. And don’t wanna know before watching a movie and more talk about like major themes that stood out to us from it.

[00:03:08] Angela: And won’t go into like specific, you know, scene by scene or anything like that, so that you don’t feel like anything was spoiled. Um, okay. So for me, one of the like major things that stood out to me, which was like, kind of obvious from even the trailer, but it like really fulfilled on the promise was like what this movie means for real representation and what that could mean moving forward.

[00:03:33] Angela: And obviously like for Asian, the Asian community, it was huge because. Almost a completely Asian cast, barring like Jamie Lee, Curtis, and Jenny slate with their like more supporting roles. Yeah. But I think it’s a really good blueprint for kind of like any diverse, uh, representation type, like footprint moving forward for movies at large.

[00:03:57] Angela: And what I mean by that is. Yes. Almost everyone was Asian, but they didn’t force like unnecessary Asian things into the movie. Like there was this really nice balance of like finally we get to see people who look like the us as like the dominant cast on screen and not just like random side character.

[00:04:20] Angela: That’s freaking huge to show like you don’t have to be a white male actor to like carry a movie, essentially. Um, but what I really enjoyed was that it, again, like, yes, there were martial arts, but I think honestly, that would’ve been in any multiverse type movie. There would’ve been action inside. There would’ve been action.

[00:04:41] Angela: Yeah. And mul martial arts as part of like most action movies at this point. Um, but it wasn’t like centered on that and where they wove in the Asian stuff is kind, it was very natural. It was basically like how you and I have talked about, like, in our two year anniversary episode, we even talked about this of like, what does representation really mean?

[00:04:59] Angela: And like, For us. I think, you know, with this podcast, sometimes we talk about like specifically Asian identity things like having tiger moms and like model minority myth and whatever. But a lot of times we just talk about random things that interest us that have nothing to do with being Asian. But because we are Asian, our like upbringing and the experiences we have had often make their way into like our perspectives on things.

[00:05:24] Angela: So what I really liked about this movie was that. Where the Asian parts came in were just like, because they are Asian. So it just like played into how their characters would actually act as like multidimensional, complex characters, as opposed to like this forced plot line about being Asian.

[00:05:45] Jesse: Yeah. I really agree with you there.

[00:05:47] Jesse: I think, I think the pieces. Of cinema that have resonated the most with people and especially Asian, Asian Americans are those that are thoughtfully using the Asian American background to fuel the plot where you’re exploring. Some of the intergenerational trauma or some of the cross-cultural kind of conflicts that you get when you move from one culture to another, without offering it up as kind of like a tokenized kind of thing.

[00:06:21] Jesse: Right. And it sounds really easy to explain, but I feel like there’s always a little bit. Like it’s really hard to get. Right. Basically. So like, there are some movies where I think there’s a lot of fan service to it. Like crazy rich Asians, lots of fan service, like loved it, but it was definitely fan service.

[00:06:41] Jesse: And then on the other side you have like, I think it’s called blue Bayou. I read some reviews of it, but basically it was like a movie centered around an Asian American man who grew up in Louisiana. And he was like, kind of like white trash. Background, but that kind of story is like complete erasure of the ethnic background.

[00:07:02] Jesse: And so it’s really refreshing to see a story that kind of balances the two where. You might not necessarily understand fully like culturally the background, but you can understand humanistically like the traumas, the tensions, the relationships that are being brought into the movie to power that. And so I agree with you.

[00:07:22] Jesse: I think it was done really wonderfully, um, to support this like weird, weird amalgamation of themes. Right? Like I thought it was. It’s like action. It’s like comedy, it’s like relationship. Like there’s so many things. It’s everything within it. Yeah. Everywhere. everything everywhere. Exactly. And, um, and yeah, the background just really gives it kind of like a really nice tension and really allows the audience to like, be empathetic with the characters and understand kind of where, uh, where to relate with.

[00:08:03] Angela: Yeah, I kind of see it like an onion with so many layers, right? Because like, As you mentioned, it is largely centered on like the humanistic elements of all the characters. So like regardless of your own background, everyone can relate to these characters to many degrees. Yeah. But if you happen to also be Asian American and specifically a Chinese speaking American.

[00:08:31] Angela: I think there is just like these extra layers that you would get more than other people, but it does not exclude everyone else just because they did not grow up with that experience. So I just found that like really enriching, because to your point, we loved crazy ations because, Hey, I mean, it in recent cinema, that is, that was like the most groundbreaking one in terms of like all Asian cast, straight up all Asian cast.

[00:08:57] Angela: Right. And like, as, as. Kind of like generally a romcom. So not trying to be like an Asian thing necessarily. Exactly. But it was less deep of a movie obviously than this. And like, again, legendary Michelle, yo, she was in that too, but she did play a more kind of like stereotypical, you know, extremely Asian mom.

[00:09:20] Angela: Yeah. Disapproving, matriarch, mom kind of situation. Whereas this was like, so unexpected. Well, yeah, I don’t wanna give away, but she, she plays like a more realistic what an Asian American immigrant might be like, what they might do for a living mm-hmm having moved uprooted their lives in the move to a new country.

[00:09:43] Angela: And like the struggles that go along with that and kind of how all of that has shaped who she is, what she feels, what she does, all that. You

[00:09:52] Jesse: know, there’s something that I wanted to say about what you commented, which is that like, for those of us who grew up as Asian Americans, you get kind of this, like there’s a little bit more there, right?

[00:10:02] Jesse: Mm-hmm , it’s like an inside joke kind of mm-hmm . But I think that, you know, in, in cinema, there’s always things like that, right? Like, I didn’t realize. Because I didn’t watch rat tooi. I was like, I don’t wanna watch the three . I didn’t realize that there was a whole part of the movie that is like homage to rat TUI.

[00:10:19] Jesse: And I was super confused. I was like, what is happening? Like why, why? And then I Googled that fat and I was like, oh, okay. I understand. So. You know, to your point, there’s always little bits of cinema where like some people are in on it and some people are not, but it doesn’t require you to be involved.

[00:10:39] Jesse: Like it doesn’t require you to be in on the joke for you to understand the situation. Like, I didn’t understand the RA tree reference. I was like, this is still like, I don’t know why this is here, but it’s still like, amazing. Like I still love the whole part of it. Um, so yeah, I, uh, I think that everyone can get something out of it, regardless of whether you are in on the, you know, the.

[00:10:59] Jesse: Pop culture reference or not.

[00:11:01] Angela: Yeah. Yeah. I also wanted to comment in terms of the representation piece on two of the main stars and just like what a lovely kind of moment it was for them. So obviously Michelle, yo, I think this has just been like, I was a Hollywood reporter or one of those outlets did an interview with her, um, about this movie where they also talked about this, but basically this is like her first.

[00:11:28] Angela: Major like leading role in a, especially like a Western movie, right? Yeah. Like made for Western audiences movie, even though she’s had a decades long career acting career. Yeah. Yeah. And she’s like a fucking badass and has deserved to be in a lead role forever, but just never got the chance. And it was just such a like gratifying thing to see her before I knew anything about the movie.

[00:11:55] Angela: Right. To see her as a lead it. Unexpected. It is like a sad way to explain it, but like, it was really unexpected for me to see that she was a lead because I guess I just never expected this moment that like, not only would it be an Asian lead. That’s like the most important actor of the movie, but also the female one.

[00:12:19] Angela: Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Um, and I don’t know if you read this, but, um, in one of the interviews I read the Daniels, which are the directors of the movie. They mentioned that the original screenplay that they wrote for this had someone more like Jackie Chan in mind for the protagonist, it was supposed to, it was originally written for a male lead.

[00:12:41] Angela: And I just I’m sure it still would’ve been good, but like, I just don’t think it would’ve been like as groundbreaking of a thing to see. Like, I wouldn’t have been that shocked to see like Jackie Chan in something as like a lead sports related thing.

[00:12:57] Jesse: I ki, I, I agree with you. Like the here’s the thing, first of all, Michelle, yo is a legend and I feel like most people, I will say myself included like your most salient.

[00:13:08] Jesse: Let’s say experience with her is like, I think she’s in, um, I’m trying to think of like big Western movie. She was in, she is in crouching tiger. It was not Western movie, but it was big and blast. Yeah. Yeah. Um, crazy rich, Asian. She is a mom. Yeah.

[00:13:21] Angela: Shahi recently

[00:13:22] Jesse: SNG Chi. Yes. Yeah. Um, she was also in one of the mummy movies as like a witch.

[00:13:27] Jesse: Oh, probably. Yeah. Like a, uh, like a good witch, but she, yeah, yeah, sure. But like she, like, if you are doubting her creds, she has a range. She a hundred percent has a range mm-hmm and, um, Oh my God. What was I saying?

[00:13:40] Angela: that it wouldn’t have been as like, it wouldn’t have,

[00:13:44] Jesse: because, because you’ve seen that before, like the plot, there’s a point in the plot where the relationship in the relationship between the characters really helps transform a moment.

[00:13:56] Jesse: Right. And. The hardness and softness of the characters are preserved your typical, like masculine, feminine energy. And I really love that it was switched. Yeah. That you had a male presenting person giving the fem energy and a female presenting person being like, oh yes, like this is what I needed to understand.

[00:14:18] Jesse: And I think that that. Added just a little, it’s a little more like a twist, a little flavor to it, which is really nice. And I also agree with you, like, um, super kudos to her because she’s got it stacked against her, right. She’s Asian, she’s a woman and she’s a woman of a certain age, you know, that’s like Hollywood is all about not any of those things.

[00:14:42] Jesse: Mm-hmm so it was really, really great to see her as, um, the main character protagonist. Yes. All of the Casper great show.

[00:14:50] Angela: So phenomenal. Yes. Okay. Um, which leads me to the other person I wanna give kudos to, which is the other half of what you’re just saying. So the male, the main male lead, which was ki Kuwan, I think is how you pronounce his name, at least in English speaking, uh, pronunciation, but he plays the.

[00:15:11] Angela: The husband essentially. Um, and like you said, he is like the softer of the two and that’s surprising in and of itself. But I watched a clip of an interview with him too, where he was discussing how this was like a huge return for him to acting as well, because I didn’t know this, but I guess he was like most famous for being in the Goonies, like way back in the day.

[00:15:35] Angela: Um, but he mention, he said, as a male Asian actor. And like you said, of a certain age, especially, right? Like he just hasn’t been given many opportunities in anything Western, since the Goonies, I guess, like anything big I’m sure. Maybe he’s been in like smaller things, but. He was kind of just expressing, like, it’s not even, like I got to audition and got rejected.

[00:16:03] Angela: He’s like, I just, I didn’t even get auditions. Like he just never got those opportunities. So

[00:16:08] Jesse: do I feel that mm-hmm ,

[00:16:12] Angela: not in acting, but just in life

[00:16:15] Jesse: oh yeah. There’s tons of places in, I, you know, what I really liked about him is that he has such a distinctive voice. Mm-hmm . He plays. He like with all the characters, they all play like multiple different kinds of characters.

[00:16:27] Jesse: Right. And I love that when he’s like in his irregular, let’s say his prime character, his voice is very comical, but then there’s like an alternative version of him where he’s just speaking, um, Mandarin or Canto. And I was like, this is sexy. I liked it. I was like, this is strange. Like, it’s the same voice, like different language.

[00:16:47] Jesse: I was like, oh, this, I mean, I was, it was. The, the scene, the mood and everything was like, yeah, different as well. But I was like

[00:16:54] Angela: work, uh, well, let’s get into language, cuz that is a different theme that I wanted to delve into. I loved. The way that they weaved this into the script, because basically, like, I kind of feel like, you know, multilanguage has been introduced in some movies, like crazy rich Asians.

[00:17:13] Angela: They had a little bit of Mandarin and like farewell. They had a little bit of Mandarin, but it was very compartmentalized. Right. It was kind of like, we are speaking Mandarin now, or we are speaking Canto now. And so they like throw in a few lines where it’s like, you know, like, um, in crazy rich Asians when it’s like RA the character, Rachel’s trying to like impress the grandma.

[00:17:33] Angela: She’s like, now I’m talking to grandma nine, nine, blah, blah, blah. Right. As opposed to like this movie in the first scene had like multiple languages going on. Mm-hmm in the same sentence. You know what I mean? Which is way more realistic in terms of like how you switch. Yes. Like you don’t have to be Asian American.

[00:17:55] Angela: If you are of any family that speaks more than one language, you know, that this is normal, that like you’re trying to express something and like, maybe you have like a base language that you’re speaking in. Like for example, it would be Mandarin for us, with our parents, but you just like. Either, you don’t know the words or it like makes more sense to say it in English.

[00:18:14] Angela: So you’re like halfway through you say a few words in the, the flipped language, but carry on back in like the original language, right? It, it doesn’t like phase anyone, but. I okay. So number one, I loved that, but number two, I was genuinely confused because , as someone who can speak Mandarin, I was very confused because they had subtitles on screen, um, in English.

[00:18:38] Angela: Right. So it was just like a lot of language switching for my brain as someone who actually understands it. Because, um, like for example, Roman was like, oh, that wasn’t confusing for me because he was just reading the English because he was. What am I otherwise supposed to be doing? Versus I was like listening to the Mandarin while reading the English.

[00:18:56] Angela: And then sometimes they switched to Canto and I was like, well, I don’t honor take Canto. So then I was like, oh, gotta read the English. And then I was like, oh, the scene’s over oh

[00:19:04] Jesse: yeah. Same. I was like, oh, like the Mandarin was fine. The, the accent were a little bit different from what I’m used to, but I was like, it’s fine.

[00:19:10] Jesse: And then the Canto came up and I was like, wait, I have to, uh, subtitles please. and then sometimes I was just reading. All just all subtitles, because it was going so fast between the things that it was easier to do it that way. It’s kind of the same thing. Like the language is used authentically. As it feels authentic as like part of the character’s lives, as opposed to kind of what you were saying with crazy rich Asians, where I would say the character of Rachel is solidly like second generation Asian American, even though she like was born in the us, but like, she has no real.

[00:19:43] Jesse: Kind of ties back to Homeland. We vibed more with it because I feel like this is more emblematic of our experience as opposed to that, where it’s like very, pretty much distinct.

[00:19:52] Angela: Totally. There was also like a really subtle thing, which I don’t know if they like purposely worked in there, but if they did, I love it, which is, um, So, if you notice when Michelle Yo’s character and Kiwi’s character were speaking to each other, they were largely speaking in a mix of like Mandarin and English, because they’re kind of like the, I got, I don’t know, I guess the like relatively younger generation, as opposed to like when she was speaking to her dad.

[00:20:19] Angela: So the grandpa character, they switched to Cantonese and he like only spoke Cantonese. And that just like really reminded me of the way that my family is structured. Our families are from Taiwan. like my grandma only spoke Taiwanese, Taiwanese baby. Like, yeah, she could understand Mandarin, but she only spoke Taiwanese.

[00:20:40] Angela: So like, we always had this little bit of language barrier because I don’t really understand Taiwanese. So I did like be speaking Mandarin to her and she’d be speaking Taiwanese back to me. Mm-hmm so I don’t know if they like purposely did that, but if they did, I love it.

[00:20:54] Jesse: I’m sure it is. And maybe I’m like, maybe I’m overreaching here, but I also felt like kind of when the characters were really stressed or really mad and they used Mandarin or Canto, it would be Canto.

[00:21:05] Jesse: It’s kind of like when my parents get really excited, they just use Taiwanese. Yeah. Like they’re like, like it’s just suddenly because it’s their first, first kind of language, right. Mandarin is like a secondary thing that they learned and it. It’s nice to see that kind of detail captured because it, it adds to the, again, adds to the realism of the situation.

[00:21:26] Jesse: And like, you feel like these are real people where they revert to specific kinds of language when they’re very excited or emotional or whatever.

[00:21:34] Angela: Yes. Yeah. And shout out to Michelle. Yo, because I didn’t know this, so I looked it up later, but I, I always thought. From Hong Kong, because she’s so famous from like so many Hong Kong movies, but she’s actually Malaysia.

[00:21:48] Angela: And she learned Cantonese because she was in so many Hong Kongese movies. And I was like, damn girl, because when she did switch into Canto in the movie, I was like, oh, that makes sense. Cuz she’s from Hong Kong. When then I looked at her later, I was like, she not from Hong Kong culture is not,

[00:22:03] Jesse: I’m sure she speaks in them.

[00:22:04] Jesse: Oh, oh, sorry. I just remember she was also in a James Bond movie as the primary bond. Yeah, I’m sure she speaks more than three languages.

[00:22:13] Angela: Oh, so talented. Hey listeners, wondering how you can support us. The biggest way is by increasing our visibility by following us on Instagram at where are you from pod on TikTok at, but where are you really from subscribing to our YouTube channel under, but where are you really from podcast?

[00:22:29] Angela: Rating and reviewing us on apple podcasts and telling your friends the more people we can get to listen to the show, the more we can continue spotlighting different perspectives and stories. And if you feel so inclined, we’re also accepting donations@buymeiacoffee.com slash where are you from? Thanks.

[00:22:45] Angela: Y’all

[00:22:47] Jesse: so here’s, here’s one thing that I’ll say the movie is very crazy. It’s like, there’s a lot of things happening. You have to be committed for this two hour and 30. Journey. Yes, because it goes to so many different places and so many different themes. But I think, I know, as in the title, everything.

[00:23:09] Jesse: Everything everywhere all at once. , it’s really, it’s just like a really lovely thing. Cuz you go from different places to different places and somehow it’s still all the same story and it comes back together like beautifully. So I think that’s one of the things that I really liked about, about this is that it, it goes through kind of different little vignettes.

[00:23:33] Jesse: Of the character’s alternate lives, but still everything is pieced together. Like makes sense. At the end, there’s like a core to the movie that, um, you are invested in.

[00:23:44] Angela: I think we’ve all wondered at some point, like, what if I had made a different decision with like anything in life, right? Like you’re constantly making decisions.

[00:23:51] Angela: Like, am I gonna have coffee or tea right now or nothing? Mm-hmm and then like, maybe that tiny decision led to something different. And so it. It’s really, like you said, it was really cool to see all the like different scenarios that could play out based on the decisions that you make in life, but know that you, as a person at your core are like still the same person.

[00:24:16] Angela: And like, what is important to you is still the same, you know, across all time continuum, all that.

[00:24:23] Jesse: It’s very, so these vignettes for me were, and the whole movie for me actually was very existential. I came out of it and I was like, oh my God. Like, oh yeah, totally. It’s exactly what you said. It is just like, if you, if you have ever questioned a decision in your life which everybody has, you should watch this because it’s just like, you get to kind of experience that.

[00:24:45] Jesse: And then at the end of it, get this reassurance from the movie that you’re like, you’re doing. What you should be doing, or like you’re living the life that you should be living and you have the values that you should have. Um, but I do. Yeah. I, I feel like that’s actually a really big theme is kind of like, for me, it picked up the question of like, why are we here?

[00:25:03] Jesse: And like what keeps us constant? And like, is there a constant and is there a meaning and all that, um, those like heady questions about like existence, maybe that maybe for me. The ending was a little too sweet. Like it very, you know, it kind of wrapped up in a happy place, which is fine. Um, but aside from that, it was just, um, yeah, like you said, it was a really lovely exploration of like, what happens if you make these like different decisions and at the core, like, are you still you across all of these possible existences of you?

[00:25:37] Jesse: Mm-hmm yeah. Mm-hmm

[00:25:39] Angela: yeah. I don’t think that ending was too sweet. And then we’re not gonna give that away anything. I feel like the trend in most like modern movies is that endings are not, unless it’s like a, a romcom, you know, like ones that have like a very specific recipe that they follow. Like the, the new trend is that endings are a little bit more open ended because that’s how life.

[00:26:02] Angela: Usually is, is like a little open ended. Um, so that’s, you know, I felt good, but it wasn’t like, oh, it’s like, there’s no, you know, everything was completely wrapped up and nothing is questionable. I did, I think there were still room for like, yeah, what happens now? Um, Anyways. So speaking of, you know, like who are we in the end?

[00:26:24] Angela: And like, what values do we carry? And blah, blah, blah. Um, something that I really enjoyed was exploring the mother daughter relationship throughout the movie. And again, I’m trying really hard not to like give away any spoilers with the way we discussed this. But I mean, this was one of those things where it was like, again, I think you could.

[00:26:45] Angela: Stand what the complexities were largely whether or not you were Asian American, but if you were Asian American, there was just like extra layers of like, oh, I get why this is so important or so difficult for them to overcome. I think the parts that were understandable for everyone, which is like, There’s a generational difference between, you know, parents and children and therefore kind of like what is acceptable or not within each generation, you know, older generations generally were more conservative with a lot of things.

[00:27:19] Angela: How you dress, how, you know, what. Male versus female role should be like who you should be dating all those things and expressing emotions, expressing emotions. Yes. But then there was an added layer of like, if you’re Asian, you like, get it a little bit more. So like little things, like they make little comments about your weight, which is like a very Asian thing.

[00:27:42] Angela: Right? Like Western families don’t deal with that shit. It’s like, and I don’t mean like, because you have like an actual issue, it’s just like you, you gained five pounds and they’re like, Fat, you know what I mean? Like that was like a recurring thing that kind of happened. And I was like hurt. I think it was very real for most of the movie in terms of like, there was this very complicated relationship between mother and daughter, which we can definitely relate to.

[00:28:07] Angela: Right. Which is like, we talked about this last time. Like we now, as adults, especially are trying to figure. How to be friends with our parents, because it’s something that is like important to us now that we are not moody teenagers, that we like understand a little bit more about the traumas that they’ve gone through themselves and what they must be going through and how much they mean to us.

[00:28:30] Angela: But it’s still complicated because of the way we were raised, the way they were raised, how we were taught or not taught to express emotion mm-hmm and like connect with each other. and I think that really played out throughout like the majority of this movie, right. Where it was almost like. Do I hate you or do I love you?

[00:28:50] Angela: Or is it a mix of both? Or like, how do I define this? And it, the, this is like a subplot throughout the entire movie was kind of like their ride that they were on with their relationship. Yeah.

[00:29:01] Jesse: Daughter played beautifully by, I think Stephanie Sue. Yeah. So yes, the relationships are at the core of. The whole thing is why you care about the movie.

[00:29:12] Jesse: And they, they do a really great job bringing to life. Those tensions that you mentioned. And I also like one of the things maybe I’ll like abstract a little bit more for mother daughter, but I feel like each character was also developing a relationship with themselves. Yeah. Their own doubts, their own fears, whatever they brought with them and trying to like tease that out into how that’s affected.

[00:29:36] Jesse: Their relationships with the other characters. And so I think at the end, you see transformation with all of the characters, admitting something that is like a big thing for them. It’s a big thing for the movie, right? You’re like, oh my God, they’ve admitted this thing, but it’s a big thing for themselves, for them to come out and say a certain thing or do a certain action.

[00:29:57] Jesse: Um, it shows that their own relationship with themselves has kind of changed over the movie. And it’s, it’s actually, I mean, it’s visualized very nicely because you literally have this person having a relationship with themselves across like the multiverse. Yeah. Like different versions of themselves. . Um, but yeah, I feel like that’s a big thing too.

[00:30:15] Jesse: Like each of the characters is transforming internally, like how they see themselves and honestly, like how kind they’re being to themselves, how mean they’re being to themselves, what kind of things that they’re bringing along with them to their current, you know, where they are currently.

[00:30:29] Angela: I mean, those are such meaty topics to explore in any type of movie and with any type of cast.

[00:30:37] Angela: But I wonder if part of the reason why this movie was so impactful for us is. It is strange in a good way, but it is strange to see Asian characters explore self growth, self awareness journeys, as deeply as in this movie, because I’m not trying to say that Asian. So there’s a big difference between like Asian films and Asian American films.

[00:31:04] Angela: Right. And. There are enough Asian films out there that explore deep topics. I’m not trying to say Asian films are all surface level. What I’m saying is that because traditionally Asian culture does not emphasize emotion and like. Self growth in all and like self love in all those aspects. I think usually if they go in depth, it’s like one specific thing that they’re going in depth about.

[00:31:33] Angela: Like, whether it’s like going really deep into overcoming obstacles to like, become a better version of themselves in terms of like career or like immigration story or. Uh, martial arts, like whatever it is, or it’s like specifically a disapproving parent child relationship that they’re going through, or like a dating relationship.

[00:31:56] Angela: But this is like we, as humans are so complex that we have like everything going on all at the same time. Right? Like we have many issues that we’re trying to deal with, including the ones that we cause for ourselves. And to see each of these characters that happen to be Asian going through. Who am I, what are my own flaws?

[00:32:17] Angela: How do I contribute to other people’s challenges and negativities? And how do I kind of overcome all of that is rare. I think, especially in Western media with Asian people playing it, but like in general, I think I I’ve never, I can’t recall a movie at least in recent. Within Asian cast, whether from Asia or in Western media, where they kind of try to tackle all the flaws that a human has and like and how they try to better themselves across all

[00:32:52] Jesse: of that.

[00:32:53] Jesse: Yeah. Yeah. There’s a lot of different, the different aspects to it. And I agree with you. I don’t think I’ve seen. They don’t think I’ve seen anything like that. So speaking of, um, kind of internal relationships, I also liked that how the movie presented queerness, like the whole thing is fucking weird, which is , which is like, as a, like, as a queer person that loves weird shit.

[00:33:19] Jesse: I’m like, yeah. So weird. But also like, I love. It’s so metaphorical for me, because like the character that is the queerest presents outwardly as the most extravagant mm-hmm, like the most outrageous, the craziest, like just loudest. Kind of visual thing on the screen, but internally is like dead inside mm-hmm and like, I was like, oh my God, this was me like, like so much of my life.

[00:33:49] Jesse: I was like, I’m fabulous inside. I was like, Ooh. Um, and this is like one of those things where like I picked up on it and I just love how they took that character through that entire journey. And the visuals kind of supported that. Kind of story. Um, and so it was, it was nice for me to see,

[00:34:10] Angela: um, thank you for sharing that, because that was definitely something I didn’t pick up on.

[00:34:16] Angela: Like I, I think I noticed each of those individual parts that you mentioned, but I did not make that connection that like, as a queer person, that, that juxtaposition of the like outward I’m fabulous versus the like, inside I’m dead yeah. Thing is. Common or something that is like a recurring theme, I guess, um, because of the way society is run and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:34:47] Angela: And how you kind of explore your own identity. It just, it was not something that I, um, made that connection of, but it kind of to our earlier comment about the onion and the different, like layers, it didn’t take away from my experience not to have picked up on that, but it like makes me happier to have heard your perspective on that.

[00:35:07] Angela: To know that there was like these other little touches that they. Through in there for the audiences that would understand it right now. I don’t know

[00:35:16] Jesse: if that was their intention, but that’s, that’s what I took

[00:35:18] Angela: away. Well, I think we both had a lot of, okay. So to be fair, Jesse and I watched the movie the same night at the same respective local times, but because of time zone, obviously just.

[00:35:32] Angela: Was first. And so he kind of sent me a text before I walked in, not giving away anything, but it kind of set up all my like expectations, which was. So amazing. I laughed and I cried. I did, yeah, I laughed. And I cried and I was like, oh shit. And so I was, I was really stoked. Oh. And also just a random aside was like my, okay.

[00:35:56] Angela: The PR agency kind of like teased something that I was like, oh, it’s gonna happen. But they’re like, maybe there’s gonna be cast appearances. And some of these upcoming screenings and Jesse got nothing. Um, and in mine, No. I was like at first I was like, who? Um, so there were people at mine and they presented themselves as like the martial arts choreographers of the movie.

[00:36:23] Angela: And I was like, oh, that’s cool. But I was like, okay. So not, not like the cast, as in like the people in the movie, I thought they were all like behind the scenes people. Um, and they, it was cool. They like came up as a group and they each did like live martial arts, which was pretty sweet. And then the movie started and I was like, oh, they’re like in the movie.

[00:36:43] Angela: So they weren’t, you know, it wasn’t like the main four characters or whatever, but like, If you watch the movie, there are some recurring kind of like nameless. Yes. Um, characters that do a lot of the martial arts and like interact with the main characters. And they were those guys that came to the, the showing and it was really cute.

[00:37:02] Angela: It was a really heartwarming showing because, um, It was like a packed house. Like it was, every seat was sold out and it was because it was all the like family and friends of these guys that were in the movies. So every time they’re on screen, there was like a wow. And like a clapping and it was so cute.

[00:37:21] Jesse: Um, so I think you’re gonna have a good time because the highs and the lows are like, you’re gonna be so bought into it. Like I was totally.

[00:37:28] Angela: It’s so good. Y’all you gotta go see it. Yeah. Um, and which brings us to our fortune cookie clothes. We like to end on a sweet treat, but this is the one section that we are gonna go into spoiler zone.

[00:37:41] Angela: So if you don’t want spoilers, get the fuck out now. if you do want spoilers sit tight, or if you’ve already watched the movies, sit tie and listen to this as well. We’re gonna go into our favorite parts of the movie. There’s so many, because like you said, it’s just like all over the place and so many fucking fun things.

[00:38:01] Angela: Um, do you have one in mind or do you want me to go first? Uh,

[00:38:04] Jesse: I just, okay. I know that I said I didn’t like the sweet parts of the movie, but it really got me. So like that part where, um, Michelle yo is like fighting her way up the stairs to get to yeah. The waters definite suit. And then at the end she’s like, it just.

[00:38:24] Jesse: hurts too much to be around you. Like, just let me go. And I was like watching her character and I was like, oh my God, this is like an impossible decision. Because like, there was a scene earlier with Michelle yo and, uh, J I think James Hong who’s her father. Mm-hmm . and she was like, how could you let me go so easily?

[00:38:42] Jesse: And I was like, oh my God. Like, she has to make the, the decision. And she doesn’t know the same decision first is like, yeah. And I was like, oh, like this. And then like, and then at first she like was like, okay, like, I’m not gonna make the same mistake. Like my daughter is asking me, you know, to let her go.

[00:39:00] Jesse: Yeah. And she lets her go and I was like, I’m heartbroken. Yeah. Like I look really heartbroken and. And then she, you know, she came back for the like pretty sure, like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, kind of situation. But I was like, so moved at that point, I was like, oh, she has to make the decision. And it’s so emotional.

[00:39:17] Jesse: And I feel like the insanity of the movie really builds that. Cuz she’s like coming up the stairs, you’re getting like all these moments from the different characters as she interacts with them. And they just like build something in you to this like emotional crux. So that was my favorite. .

[00:39:35] Angela: Yeah. And I think so I couldn’t talk about this in the main section, since we didn’t wanna go into spoilers, but since we’re already talking about it.

[00:39:41] Angela: Yes. I think that was one of the parts where I was like, oh, this is like a very different way of portraying an Asian parent and child, because the concept of like, just let me go is like, I don’t think any parent would just let their child go in like the most traditional sense, right? Yeah. Yeah. They’d just be like, no, I know better than you do.

[00:40:05] Angela: Like you’re gonna, I’m I’m staying here or like, no we’re doing this, you know, like not giving as much leeway to the idea that the child has individual like volition and challenges that. Require them to need space and to like, not wanna maintain that relationship. Like, because I think it’s common that Asian parents and children have a really fraught relationship, especially if the parents are from are, are the immigrants and the children are like grew up American because we just have such different cultural understandings of like what’s important and how our relationship should be.

[00:40:47] Angela: Mm-hmm . I think I was just like imagining my own parents. If I was like, just let me go. You know? Like, and their expectation would probably be like, no, no matter how much you hate me, like, you’re my child. And like, I’m not letting this shit go.

[00:41:00] Jesse: You’re like, why are this so dramatic

[00:41:01] Angela: right now? exactly. Exactly.

[00:41:04] Angela: So that was the part where I was like, I don’t know how realistic this is, but also, maybe it is realistic because her character is like our parents in that they were the, I. That came to this country, but they were unlike our parents in that they became much more like Americanized and integrated became more individualistic.

[00:41:25] Angela: You know what I mean? Um, so I guess with that context, you could understand better why she would understand her. Daughter’s kind of request to say, like, I need my own. Without you at least for now, you know? Um, so yeah, no, that, that hit really hard for me as well. But also I was like, is this realistic?

[00:41:46] Jesse: I didn’t, it didn’t matter.

[00:41:47] Jesse: It was that it was not realistic. I was like, this is. it’s the heart of the movie, basically. Yes, for me, I was like, oh, this decision is it

[00:41:56] Angela: well to bring it up a notch? My favorite scene is not that heartwarming. It’s just fucking hilarious. Um, you talked about TUI. That was my favorite shit of the entire movie was RAA Cooney.

[00:42:09] Angela: Y’all rack a Cooney, if you know, you know, um, so in the movie, Jesse already alluded to it. It doesn’t, it’s not. Boiler because who cares? Yeah. It’s not like an important part of the movie, but, um, so at one point in the movie, it’s something like, so Asian mom, so Asian mom, or like, so mom in general was like getting the reference wrong.

[00:42:31] Angela: So like at one point in the movie, Michelle Yo’s character, like talking about Tuy, but she doesn’t remember it’s called Tuy or that it was a rat. You know, that’s why it’s called that. So she said raccoon . She thought it was a raccoon instead of a rat. And then in, in one of the multiverses, raccoon is a thing.

[00:42:55] Angela: And Harry SCHs character, cuz I was like, where’re the fuck? Is Harry sh coming out? Because they had him build as part of the cast. He’s like in this random multiverse version. and under his chef’s hat, there was like animatronic raccoon. a really

[00:43:09] Jesse: bad word by the way. A really

[00:43:11] Angela: bad was on purpose though, I think.

[00:43:13] Angela: Yeah. For why it was so terrible, but there was like a talking animatronic raccoon who was pulling his hair and like controlling all of his emotions. And I just fucking loved it because it was. It was already such a like typical mom and like Asian mom moment for her to get the reference wrong for then for, for them to play it out in a multiverse version, that there is literally a raccoon in the hat I fucking died.

[00:43:41] Angela: I fucking died. I loved it

[00:43:42] Jesse: so much. Yeah. Yeah. I mean here’s okay. So the last thing I’ll say about all this is that like none of these multiverse things are extraneous. Like they, no, they are, but they aren’t like, you’re never, you’re not gonna get into one of these like vignettes and be like, why is like, I didn’t like it, all of these were like either hilarious or they served the plot for some reason, or they were like an emotional thing.

[00:44:05] Jesse: Like they were all really just.

[00:44:07] Angela: And to your earlier point, they all tied back. Yes. Like there was no loose end. Everything had a purpose, everything tied into like the bigger thing. Yeah. And it is a really kind of like random reference to draw from. But, and I don’t think you watched the show, but for any of the, uh, this is us fans out there.

[00:44:25] Angela: It reminded me of that in terms of like, this is us as one of those real, like, there’s a reason why that show has won like a million Emmys and it’s like always nominated for stuff. Number one it’s like, fantastic. But number two, like one of the things it does really well is it cast a lot of fish hooks a lot of lines in the ocean that like, you’re just like, okay, I don’t know where this goes.

[00:44:45] Angela: And then like multiple episodes later, it like reels that shit back in. You’re like, oh my God, like there’s so many circles that come full circle and. This movie was very similar for that, to that for me in that it was like, I don’t know where this is going at all. Maybe it serves no purpose at many points.

[00:45:03] Angela: I think you think that, which is like, this seems extraneous. And then it like all comes back around in the end and you’re like, oh, and it’s just so gratifying. Yeah. When that kind of thing happens. Mm-hmm so, anyway, go watch this movie. Sure. She’s definitely fucking good. Yeah. Um, and write us in and tell us what you thought of the movie afterwards.

[00:45:24] Angela: Tell us where you’re from@gmail.com. Favorite scene part you cried at laughed at felt dead inside, felt alive. Whatever you wanna tell us, tell us on social media, wherever you want. Um, because man, so fucking good. I’m so excited for. What this movie will mean for like the cast moving forward in terms of opportunities they hopefully get in, you know, mainstream media opportunities and also for what storytelling can mean in the future as well from like a diversity inclusion, but like authentic mm-hmm standpoint.

[00:45:59] Angela: So just very excited all around seems and yeah, come back next week because all as always we’ll have another episode for you then. And until then, The idea bitches.

Note: Transcript fully created by automated AI

[00:00:00] Jesse: Hi everyone. I’m Jesse Lin

[00:00:02] Angela: And I’m Angela Lin. And welcome back to another episode of, but where are you really from? Today, we’re talking about a fairly difficult subject, but something that we thought was important to cover, um, pretty imminently from the beginning of us coming back with new episodes, which is the war in Ukraine.

[00:00:23] Angela: Uh, it’s obviously looming over everyone’s heads right now in many different kind of ripple effects. Uh, no more crushing effects could be had than on the people that it’s directly impact impacting in both Ukraine and Russia. So today we invited a guest who is going to remain anonymous, but we will refer to him as OIG.

[00:00:47] Angela: Um, who will be representing the Russian civilian perspective. Do you want a caveat that our original intent with this episode was to have both a Ukrainian perspective and a Russian perspective, but kind of reality of the situation is that it’s an ongoing war. It’s very sensitive. Uh, lots of people are either unwilling to talk about it cannot physically talk about it.

[00:01:11] Angela: You know, there are many reasons why it’s difficult to get someone. You know, from Ukraine, we’re directly tied to it right now. Um, and we are very lucky that we have Ole with us at least to represent that side. So, um, just laying it out there, but before we get into things, wanna give Ole the chance to kind of introduce himself as he feels comfortable.

[00:01:34] Angela: Um, and then we’ll. Kind of set the stage of how we got to where we are, um, and also get into his current situation so that we can get a kind of real person perspective here. So I like the, uh, typical question of our show, but where are you really from probably an extra loaded question right now, but we’ll, we’ll throw it to you.

[00:01:56] Angela: However you feel comfortable answering that.

[00:01:58] Anonymous Guest: Thank you. Yeah, I just want to start with that. I don’t think I represent all Russians or even a huge subset of Russians because my life been somewhat unique for Russian person. And I’ve been mainly with the Western people for too long . So it’s kind, uh, kinda shaped my perspective and I’ve been traveled into much.

[00:02:23] Anonymous Guest: But to answer to your original question is that I’m from really like a small town in Russia. And I’ve been born there and spent my first, uh, 17 years, my life in this town. And then I studied in Russia universities for, um, Many years. I did like a bio show, a master degree, and I dropped out from my PhD. So I spent like a good portion of my initial life in Russia.

[00:02:53] Anonymous Guest: And then I was traveling back and forth, but always coming back, uh, to Russia. And recently I’ve been living in Moscow for the past few years. And yeah, right now I’m not in Russia. I’m in Europe. And just to, uh, double down on the complexity of talking about the issue. I now have people, or you’ve been following news, but in rationals, war is not called war.

[00:03:22] Anonymous Guest: It’s called special military preparation. And you will say what’s the difference, but the difference is 15 years in jail. Yeah, this is not a so. Uh, by calling a war, a war, I might actually get in jail for 15 years. So that’s the literality of nowadays and the reality of talking about it. And that resulted basically to know journalism in modern day in Russia, because it’s like impossible.

[00:03:52] Anonymous Guest: I think I’m gonna stop on this. Thank

[00:03:54] Angela: you for sharing that. And, and thank you for being on, because obviously we know this is a really difficult. Topic to discuss right now, especially as it’s impacting you and your family, friends personally. So thank you for joining us before we go into kind of your personal perspective and yes.

[00:04:14] Angela: Thank you for kind of clarifying you don’t re you definitely don’t represent all of Russia. I don’t think we ever. Think that any of our guests kind of represent like the holistic view of anything, but it is really, I think, impactful and special to have someone actually from Russia, lived in Russia for a big portion of your life and recently kind of weighing in.

[00:04:35] Angela: Um, but before we go into kind of your, your view on things and how it’s impacted you, um, I think we wanted to give listeners kind of just a. TLDR is not exactly the right word to say, because I’m still gonna talk for quite a bit of time, I think, but just a little, like a short overview of kind of like how this situation got to where it’s at and we’re by no means experts, obviously, but because I think with anything in kind of current events, a lot of us can get pretty wrapped up in kind of just our day to day lives.

[00:05:08] Angela: And we don’t often keep up with what’s happening outside of like, especially our own home country. So. When this first happened, I’m sure a lot of people, honestly, like didn’t really know why it was happening and like what the past and like recent history even is between Russia and Ukraine. So just wanted to give like a quick rundown for folks in case you needed that additional context.

[00:05:30] Angela: Okay. So I took some notes, but both, both folks on here, uh, correct me if I get anything wrong, please do, uh, main sources that I pulled from were the Smithsonian magazine and NPR for. One of the main, like contested things is that when Putin first declared the special military operation, he also went in this like very long winded history lesson of like, the history between Russia and Ukraine and kind of rewrote a few things.

[00:06:02] Angela: But I think one of the contested things was he was trying to say like, Ukraine has always been kind of part of Russia, like historically. And so one of the main things that these sources I was looking into wanted to kind of clarify, was like, you know, throughout centuries that the territory that is Ukraine today has been taken over by many different empires.

[00:06:22] Angela: So it was not always Russia. Um, otro, Hungarian, Poland, Lithuania, and Russia, like all of them had at some point in history. Been part of that or like overseeing that land. So it’s not true. Uh, so that’s kind of like a very late, very long ago history, but as of 1917 was the first time that Ukraine declared independence.

[00:06:45] Angela: So it was independent for like a brief period before then all of the globe broke into further wars. And then that’s when USSR Soviet union became a thing and Russia took it back. Millions of people die during, um, the great famine. There’s probably a better word for that. That’s the English ified version of what that was.

[00:07:11] Angela: But under Soviet rule in the early thirties, I didn’t know this until I looked it up, but millions died during this kind of like manmade famine. And it was because Ukrainian farmers were, um, uprising against the Soviet mandate to collectivize. Um, and so that also came about with this reification where Russia also forced the Ukrainian people to adopt the Russian language and kind of uphold Russian culture above their original Ukrainian culture.

[00:07:43] Angela: And that’s a lot of why Russian is a shared language between Russia and Ukraine today is because of this kind of like mass campaign that happened back then. And then where it gets a little, like hairy is that, um, if you’ve been following some of Putin’s addresses, he claimed that one of the main reasons that this special military operation happened is that he’s trying to help D not SIFY Ukraine.

[00:08:10] Angela: Um, and this is Harry because essentially during world war II, Germany, uh, Stepped into Ukraine. And, uh, at least part of the Ukrainian people were kind of like, The German Nazis at the time, because they saw them as liberators from the Soviets. It was kind of like lesser two evils. Like, let me just band with the one that claims that they’ll help me get free from my like previous conquerers.

[00:08:38] Angela: So that’s why there’s this kind of like association with Nazi Germany. It’s not exactly true what Putin’s saying about modern day, but that’s where that, like deifying kind of original claim came from. And then 1991 is when Ukraine declared recent independence again. And it was actually kind of agreed upon that.

[00:09:00] Angela: That would be a thing because in 1994, there was something called the Budapest memorandum where Ukraine agreed to give up all of its like nuclear weapons. Essentially. If the us, UK and Russia all agreed that it was a sovereign state could stay independent. Um, post obviously the fall of Soviet union, blah, blah.

[00:09:22] Angela: But that’s like when it was supposedly like, Hey, leave us alone. kind of thing. Um, and then recent history, two thousands is just kind of like. you know, like most government, very hairy kind of back and forth between like pro Russia, pro west governments, similar to Taiwan, how there’s like a pro China versus prodemocracy back and forth with, with our motherland as well, obviously is the case in Ukraine.

[00:09:49] Angela: And then the NATO of it all was always kind of like floating as a potential Alliance that could happen, but never like formally happened. Putin was always against it because it. You know, they had more powerful friends if they decided to do something. Um, and then, wow, so many, so many things I didn’t fully understand the whole like Cian annexation until I was looking up all of this.

[00:10:17] Angela: But, um, in. Late 2013, early 2014, essentially the, the then president Yanukovitch of Ukraine had kind of like said, oh, we’re not going to enter this free trade agreement with a EU. Despite that being what the people wanted. So like mass protests in Kiev, and they kind of like over the parliament over through that existing government and put in an interim government, Putin said, that’s illegal.

[00:10:47] Angela: This is a coup screw you guys. And then. Kind of invaded the peninsula. That’s when all that kind of broke out and then there’s been kind of ongoing, like fighting in Eastern Ukraine, dumb bus region, especially past that point up until this special military operation. Um, so that that’s what all I found but Jesse, Ole, please weigh in on anything I’ve missed.

[00:11:15] Angela: That was important or incorrectly stated.

[00:11:18] Jesse: I think the only thing that I was thinking about when it comes to these conflicts is that there’s always a part of it. That’s really hard to explain because there’s a deep history that informs how each of these geopolitical players, groups are thinking about themselves are thinking about domination, dah, dah, dah, dah.

[00:11:35] Jesse: And so for those of. Everyone that’s listing and they’re like, I still don’t get it. It’s like, well, you can’t really like it’s time to explain to people the history of racism in the us. It’s really hard to understand, even though we’re quite a young country, why there are these like deep, painful things in our country’s history that even we struggle to understand.

[00:11:55] Jesse: So it’s okay if you don’t get everything. Um, but those are, I think generally the facts that led to the current situ.

[00:12:01] Anonymous Guest: Uh, yeah, might sense. So I suggest the code, just a war, right? Because it’s kind of plays in the put narrative to code special military preparation, which I don’t want to, and it’s basically a war, right.

[00:12:14] Anonymous Guest: I mean, it’s just like definition of it and going back to history, I mean, everything you mentioned, it certainly rings a bell. And I would say it’s correct. I just have a few details and clarifications. So. History is kinda, it’s not physics, right. It’s very hard to, you know, reproduce and argue like who did what, but one thing for sure, what you call the great famine.

[00:12:40] Anonymous Guest: I think in Russian it’s. Go more and it’s likely happened. So in these like thirties, a lot of people in Korean region, they died and well, we can speculate why exactly they died, but it’s like a lot of people died from starvation. I think about 10 million or more people, mostly from Korean region. In my opinion was mostly like poor management, you know, going through this sort of communis mantra that communi is gonna solve everything, but.

[00:13:11] Anonymous Guest: Again, that was unfair because in this whole, like big U you know, country, it’s only like people in Ukraine mostly had to die from starvation, but not people in Moscow who kinda was like extracting, obviously grains from Ukraine. You can all almost argue that was done on purpose, but I don’t believe this.

[00:13:31] Anonymous Guest: I think it’s like, you know, when something evil happens, it’s usually just like, uh, not really. Malaysia’s just purely. You know, like bad management and just like accident. And another one is that you say that body is like, not a comment, but Putin said, oh, to deify a grain, which I think is like a bullshit.

[00:13:51] Anonymous Guest: Uh, but I would still make this comment that breeds like some, like. Minorities, which kinda represent and believe in this ideas of like far right Nazi movement, you know, it’s like saying, oh, because with like white supremacists in America, so now we have to start the war on America to like remove all white supremacists from power, but it’s gonna gonna be true at.

[00:14:17] Anonymous Guest: Best of my knowledge that why supremacist is not in the power. So in, in that way, it’s been like a great excuse for putting, you know, to like start in war saying, oh, you have like Nazi there. So that is why we need, you know, to save people and to deify your claim.

[00:14:33] Angela: Yeah, definitely bullshit. and wow. If, if anyone tried to say that about America, that’d.

[00:14:42] Angela: Really funny. I mean, it’s true though, that like, yeah, humans are complex and there’s, there’s a little bit of everyone everywhere, right? Like you can find the worst of people anywhere, but that doesn’t mean they represent everyone. And to be able to kind of use that as like an overarching excuse to do something upon the majority of the is, is pretty bad.

[00:15:03] Angela: And it’s what we’re seeing now. Hey listeners, wondering how you can support us. The biggest way is by increasing our visibility by following us on Instagram at where are you from pod on TikTok at, but where are you really from subscribing to our YouTube channel under, but where are you really from podcast rating and reviewing us on apple podcasts and telling your friends the more people we can get to listen to the show, the more we can continue spotlighting different perspectives and.

[00:15:29] Angela: And if you feel so inclined, we’re also accepting donations@buymeacoffee.com slash where are you from? Thanks. Y’all we mentioned Putin. I’m curious. We, we kind of wanted to start with like the Putin of it all. So we wrote in our notes, I’m curious what your perspective is in terms of what his actual motivations are for.

[00:15:54] Angela: Declaring this war. I think there’s obviously like many complexities and there’s probably not one, right? Like, this is exactly it, but I think this is especially interesting to us because, um, and people are making these parallels right now, as well as like between China, Taiwan, um, and Russia, Ukraine that, because Putin and Xi J ping have like, Similar cult, you know, cult followings, and like certainly dictatorial, if you wanna just be straight with kind of how they run the country.

[00:16:27] Angela: Um, and a lot of the, at least between she and Taiwan, uh, that like fixation, a lot of it has to do with kind of legacy and like kind of putting a stamp in his own legacy before he leaves power. Um, that he was able to reunify. So I’m curious if that is like a big part of what you think is driving Putin or if there’s just like bigger things that maybe are not being spoken about, that might be driving him as someone who actually lived in his government for like a big portion of, of your

[00:17:01] Anonymous Guest: life.

[00:17:01] Anonymous Guest: So Putin has been in power for 20 years now. I think even slightly more, which is a lot. A lot of people in Russia who was born and put in power the entire life spent and rule the Putin. And unfortunately there are a lot of parallels to, and Thai ation, again, not an expert on this, but the parallels. I see that kind sad because I personally like made big mistake.

[00:17:34] Anonymous Guest: I was certain that Putin is not gonna sort of start war on. My Chanel for this was that in his like 20 years overall, he was somewhat rather rational person in the sense, like he was, you know, opposing the west and, you know, basically playing his cards, but. It’s like rational way. He, so he was like a rational players.

[00:17:56] Anonymous Guest: And how like political power structured in Russia is you have like a Putin. And then he basically has friends and with different groups of friends, he’s like military friends. And then he has this like, um, oligarch circle who like the be who run like business and. And here basically, he’s like, um, he’s like maintenance or keys to power and he was keeping them happy and they were like, keeping him happy and giving him power.

[00:18:25] Anonymous Guest: So he’s like, I mean, any dictator, he has sort of distrusted people, right. Because you can’t run country on your own. It’s not possible. So my logic was that okay. If he starts like full scale war, right then. Obviously Oliar are gonna like lose everything. They seem to value because they’re kind British material people, you know, if you have a billion or yacht that kind tells things about you and then I’m gonna be happy.

[00:18:54] Anonymous Guest: Right. That’s for sure. So I was thinking, okay, he’s not gonna do that because he needs his Oli to run things. And I was thinking like the chance of war this year was like sub 1%. I think I was wrong. I think it was actually double digits. Now, all the , they are super unhappy because not only they lose everything, it seems he also like didn’t inform them, right.

[00:19:19] Anonymous Guest: Because thess getting frozen the ya and frozen, they can’t like go to see the nice video in Italy anymore. So like, clearly we’re not ready for is I would say it’s not even be unlikely to see like a cool in short term or, or a temp of a coup. I mean, maybe it already happened just don’t know about it.

[00:19:39] Anonymous Guest: Basically. I’m saying it’s like, it’s a big stake for the Putin, right. So why would you risk go? Because, you know, He’s like 70, so maybe you just roll 10 years more and then you just like pass away or something. And now he basically risk it all because these sections, they just increase his chances to.

[00:19:58] Anonymous Guest: Lose the power, you know, dramatically, almost exponentially. And I think there is like two reasons for this. Uh, first reason is with sort of a legacy theme slash COVID. So because of the COVID, he was extremely afraid of getting COVID. And as far as I know, he didn’t get it and, and the way he managed it, he was like hiding in the bunker for like almost two years.

[00:20:23] Anonymous Guest: And then. In order to like, meet with him. Everyone has to be on like this two week quarantine, right. Just to meet them. And that resulted to a lot of his like high ranking officials, basically not seeing their families for like one year or something, because just they have to work with them, which they were also super unhappy.

[00:20:44] Anonymous Guest: And basically he spent last two years, like completely, you know, isolated and, and again, he’s like 70, right? So it’s like, if you’re 70. and you spend two years alone. I mean, you can only like, imagine what’s your like mental health will be. And I don’t, I don’t think Putin is doing therapy. He strikes me not as a guy who’s, you know, doing therapy.

[00:21:05] Anonymous Guest: And then the second reason is, is like this kind of delusional and living in a bubble, right? Because like no one wants to tell, pushing bad news, you know, you tell pushing bad news and like next day you’re. Right. So everyone is like, yes, Mr. Putin. It’s so great. You know, we have the strongest army in the world and blah, blah, blah.

[00:21:26] Anonymous Guest: It’s like when the crime was next, it was like a military success. Right. It was basically a next in like couple days, almost like no short to a fight, almost no casualty. And if you look at his like speech and you look at like how the ion was initially, tructure. It was structured almost like if you just would drive the tanks to the center of the ke and everyone will be treating like, yes, like we are saved.

[00:21:56] Anonymous Guest: Like it’s great. Finally, we can, you know, return back to this like reform Soviet union or whatever it is. And I think he had this delusion it’s gonna work this way. Just need to say tanks and everyone will be happy and there will be no resistance. And obviously he kind had this idea that NATA is not gonna, you know, intervene because of the nukes.

[00:22:21] Anonymous Guest: It, I was like this like desire to rebuild Soviet union on one hand. And it’s like, delusion is gonna work out really well on the other hand. But I think when he just really detached from reality, obviously he’d never been, no, he had been recently. And Ukraine never talked to people, you know, everything he knows from like his like intelligence rapper, which is, I mean, I haven’t read them, but I can imagine they probably, you know, biased.

[00:22:56] Angela: So speaking of bias and delusions, um, I’m curious if you can provide any perspective on. The news and how it’s been covered in Russia. Um, and also kind of like be before and after the war started, because in China, at least obviously like news is highly, uh, controlled, and the state tells you what you should know.

[00:23:22] Angela: Um, and I imagine Russia is like that as well, but I know that certain outlets and, and like distributions. Got like blocked only during, like, after the war, uh, started. So I’m curious how, how you viewed, like the news that came in through Russia. Pre-war and now if you’re hearing anything through like family and friends that might still be in Russia about like how it’s being discussed.

[00:23:50] Angela: Um, and if people believe it, like, I’m just kind of curious on how that environment.

[00:23:57] Anonymous Guest: So Russia suddenly had censorship prewar though. Not at the level China has it because. Facebook and Instagram and WhatsApp, all like Western social medias and communication channels were available. And they were YouTube in particular.

[00:24:16] Anonymous Guest: They were not, uh, CED, at least not in like full mode. We had a lot of YouTube channels and radio stations, uh, telegram groups, which people basically say whatever they wanted, you know, sometimes you would have almost sort of public trial, you know, just to make example of someone, but, uh, it must resulted in fines.

[00:24:40] Anonymous Guest: And it was not that often once the war started rapidly, they, uh, passed with law. It’s called fake law. So with law literally says, For spreading fakes about the war, which you, by the way, can’t say the war, uh, name, the war you all basically can receive up to, I think, 20 years penalty in jail. And that may basically any journalist work impossible because this law literally says, if what you’re saying is not what government says, then it’s a fake.

[00:25:14] Anonymous Guest: So it’s like, as a journalist, anything you can do is, is, you know, like cite the government, which kind of not what journalists should do anyway. And as it was not enough, they recently blocked Facebook. By the way, Facebook is now recognized as a terrorist organization in Russia, which is, I mean, it’s kind of even funny on some level Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp and YouTube, they are blocked.

[00:25:40] Anonymous Guest: So you can’t access them without VPN. and even if somehow you can access them about the VPN. If you put content there, which is somewhat newsworthy, obviously you, you can go again to the jail. And then there was some sort of independent, uh, medium outlets and magazines. They basically received the, you know, legal notice to shut down.

[00:26:06] Anonymous Guest: You know, they didn’t want to wait to prosecute them. They just literally it’s like unplug them from, you know, internet and. Basically, they cleaned up the whole thing, zero tolerance to, you know, any other opinion, which is not like state or state approved or state sponsored. So it, I would say it’s like the most dramatic change in the, in the, in the media.

[00:26:28] Anonymous Guest: I think the only channel right now, which is still holding is, is actually a telegram because telegram is taking pretty neutral position. It’s kind of not moderating anything in any side. And obviously the. Telegram founder already had, uh, its beef, Russian government. So it like we created it’s like headquarters and team everything from Russia.

[00:26:53] Anonymous Guest: So they literally don’t care. Russian government comes after them. And yeah, I think that’s like the current state of affairs. How many

[00:27:03] Angela: people like believe that it’s just a special military operation though, because, and I don’t know how much you know about this because you were luckily outside, um, Russia at the time that it started, but because I’m seeing things like, I’m sure everyone has seen that, like that video that was floating around of that, like Lieutenant or Colonel or whatever, from the Russian side who got captured.

[00:27:25] Angela: And then he spoke to press where he was like, we literally didn’t know what we were going into. Like, we truly believe that we were here to. D not SIFY and like, you know, free the Ukrainian people that should fight for, you know, their safety. And then we got here and realized it was all scam. And now we’re like ashamed of ourselves and give us whatever punishment you think we deserve that kind of stuff.

[00:27:48] Angela: So I’m, I’m curious if you have an, a sense of like what proportion of the population actually believes it’s war versus special military operation. And like, if there is a distinct. Um, divide between, I don’t know, like socioeconomic class or something else. That’s kind of dividing the people who believe or don’t believe, um, one or the

[00:28:10] Anonymous Guest: other.

[00:28:11] Anonymous Guest: I wouldn’t say it’s about special media or what it, it just like propaganda is so high that they have to call special media decoration. Most people intelligent enough to realize if you have to use tanks and fighter jets and RJ area. And where other part is return in fire. It’s a. So to me, I mean, any reasonable person understands it’s a war.

[00:28:38] Anonymous Guest: And going back to the comment about the military, I know like a lot of military people got tricked because it kind of makes sense from military perspective, you don’t want to, every soldier to know you about to start the war because obviously intelligence, you know, uh, happens. So they were told they’re going to do some military exercises and then they were like, given the command to.

[00:29:02] Anonymous Guest: but I would say it’s like a standard cookbook for, you know, warfare and military though. Going back to population in Russia, I’ve been talking to many friends and relatives there. The thing is a lot of people actually support war, even they know it’s a war, right. I mean, I’m super antiwar. Right? I don’t think you can solve anything reward in life in general.

[00:29:26] Anonymous Guest: I think it’s. If two countries at war, it’s a sign that they failed that communication and failed on so many levels. I believe there is no, there is no reason to bump like another country. I mean, you can, like, in my opinion, you can come up with doesn’t matter how many, like historical reasons or justifications.

[00:29:47] Anonymous Guest: It just like something you just don’t do. This is like my opinion. It’s not like information is not available in Russia. It’s like not North Korea, right. In the sense. People have phones and we’re like telegram groups and people sort of engage in the topic so that they like consume information either like one side another or both, but they know, you know, everyone looking with pictures, you know, of like tanks and jets and bombing.

[00:30:13] Anonymous Guest: So it’s like, it’s not that you can say, oh, I didn’t know that the war is happening. So it is why I’m like not responsible. I. Most people in Russia, likely aware to high degree of what’s going on. And to be fair, Russia has quite good internet, you know, it’s like super well connected country, Joseph internet, more than many parts of Europe.

[00:30:35] Anonymous Guest: And in fact, internet literacy is high in Russia than in many European countries. This is like what’s striking to me, is that people really onboard this war, especially. So if you, if you try to like bucket it, especially like it’s like all the generation people who lived in this Soviet, uh, union era. they kind, I dunno, they kind used to this mentality of, uh, seeing the world, like they and us like west and east kind thing.

[00:31:12] Anonymous Guest: And they’re totally behind with sort of, um, idea of and nature advancing on the east, which is, I mean, uh, factually speaking is true and you can speculate what’s the reason for them. To pick a side at all or to support it. But I would say, you know, like this double digit support of war in, in Russia, because yeah.

[00:31:38] Anonymous Guest: I don’t know exactly why, but it just seems to be the case. I mean, to me, I just wouldn’t support a war ever, any kind of war. Uh, but if you look at the history and I don’t need to name, you know, many countries, you would know. During the war, where is always, you know, a proportion of people in any country who support war and who don’t.

[00:32:02] Anonymous Guest: And Russia is like, not exception. There’s like many people who support this war. If you look at like, uh, wealth and inion certification, then. It’s like the less wealthy you are and, um, less educated. You are the more likely to support the war. For example, people who work in tech, who is somewhat, you know, wealthy, uh, they mostly don’t support the war.

[00:32:25] Anonymous Guest: And in fact, many of them like left the country in like the first days of war. So, which is a clear, you know, divide in society on this issue. It’s really dramatic because I mean, I’m lucky and blessed enough, you know, to have my girlfriend. And she also works in tech and we are like in Europe, so fine, but you know, a lot of people, this like line of division, it like runs through their family or relatives.

[00:32:51] Anonymous Guest: I even heard stories, people, you know, getting divorced because of this issue.

[00:32:55] Jesse: I have a question related to, to that. So for those people, and maybe, maybe you don’t know, I, I’m not sure. And you could just say if you don’t, but for those people who do support the war is your opinion that they’re fully bought into the, the propaganda.

[00:33:08] Jesse: Like they believe that, you know, the soldiers are there to deify Ukraine or reintegrate Russians and Ukraine into greater Russia, or do they think there’s something else they’re getting out. Out of, out of this war, because generally I think, as you were saying, I think people are rational actors. Like they don’t, you wouldn’t go into a war for no reason.

[00:33:28] Jesse: There has to be some, something that they believe that they’re getting out of it

[00:33:33] Anonymous Guest: to support it. Right. Uh, I think a lot of people buying like food package and it’s a different full package. There’s so many people, so many reasons, you know, obviously there is a her mentality, you know, some people just do because they’re friends and their social circles.

[00:33:50] Anonymous Guest: Do some people afraid to go to jail. Some people really, you know, istic want to build. So union. I think it’s like, it’s a huge mix of reasons. And I certainly think there are some people who believe into deifying Ukraine. You know, if you’ve never been to Ukraine ever in your life, and you’ve been watching this like state sponsor TV for last eight years and last year, years, eight years, it was exactly what it was saying or.

[00:34:17] Anonymous Guest: Ukraine is, you know, getting owned by Nazis and blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Some people are certainly buying it, but in general, I would say people have all sorts of reason, reason to support a war. Even ranging from economic home to political, to just, you know, oh, I don’t want, you know, to upset my, you know, social circle.

[00:34:38] Anonymous Guest: Let’s say you live in like small city and everyone like support war, like your friends, your family. And it’ll be extremely hard, you know, even to stay neutral right at this point. You

[00:34:49] Angela: started to talk a little bit about like, you still have family and friends that are in Russia. And so I wanted to completely step back.

[00:34:58] Angela: And first we should ask this up top is how are you feeling? how are you doing

[00:35:05] Anonymous Guest: well? I, I feel mostly sad about this issue because I kind always care about people. And in the end we were just old people having, trying to have our best lives and. Always like politics, fancy concepts, you know, countries and empires, uh, fighting for global domination.

[00:35:26] Anonymous Guest: But in the end, it’s all just us people. I truly believe there is no reason for anyone, you know, to die or to have their house bombed. Or to lose like family friends, and to be, you know, forced to migrate and to lose your home and stuff. In a sense, it’s always people who suffer for, you know, whatever reason.

[00:35:52] Anonymous Guest: And I feel really sad for people in Ukraine and for everyone who affected by this conflict. And I don’t, honestly, I don’t even, you know, care that much about politics of the ation. Because to me it’s just important. The wellbeing of people. I mean, it’s literally sad that we have always amazing technologies nowadays in food and, you know, like launching rock to space and yet.

[00:36:23] Anonymous Guest: We still have, you know, to, to bomb like places it’s like really, really upsetting, you know, that is like, is this is what as humankind, the best we can do. And also very sad for Russia because when Soviet union fell apart, we kind had 30 years to, you know, push shit together. Obviously it has like many people and resources and like, we had a chance to build like better future for everyone.

[00:36:53] Anonymous Guest: You know, you can, you can be like South Korea, I guess, you know, do something, you know, amazing. Like they did, you know, Kpop and, but you can do something else. But in, in the end, like this 30 years resulted to do like, you know, starting war on a neighborhood country. you know, which is like ridiculous. I also feel, feel good.

[00:37:15] Anonymous Guest: It’s not like justifiable because people say, oh, the crane will be NATO. And then Russia will be basically torn apart by, well, this is putting propaganda. Right. But we haven’t seen, and we probably won’t see any. Uh, country with, uh, massive amounts to be invaded, right? It’s like, like a suicide. So not buying this argument, I guess I’m very sad that it turned out.

[00:37:42] Anonymous Guest: And obviously I think it’s almost the most worst way it could turn out. The only verse outcome would be obviously word, word free with nukes, right? I mean, I think this is like the only verse

[00:37:55] Angela: option. So you mentioned obviously, like, hopefully we, as humanity could have come up with better ways than just bombing people.

[00:38:02] Angela: Um, let’s talk a little bit about how war has gotten more complex. So, um, One of the main ways that the west is trying to stop Russia right now is through heavy economic sanctions. I wanna talk about that in terms of like, what that actually means for the Russian people. Because I think when we sit on the west and we just see headlines, like this were like great punishment for Russia for doing bad, good job us, like, well, this’ll fix it.

[00:38:35] Angela: And. I think we often think on kind of the governmental level or like just the elites, like this is gonna hurt the rich people who are in power. It’s gonna hurt Putin. Great. We’re doing our job as opposed to like, what does that mean for the actual Russian people who did not decide to wage this war and are like, kind of stuck with a consequences?

[00:38:56] Angela: Um, what have those sanctions done in terms of like your. Personal life and like those of your family and friends, how is that actually impacting the, the people? Right.

[00:39:08] Anonymous Guest: Um, I mean, I’m briefly starting from my personal position. I mean, I’ve been lucky and blessed, uh, to have a tech job and now I’m staying in Europe.

[00:39:19] Anonymous Guest: So, so I pretty much has no. Except the sanctions make. It’s incredibly hard for me to use financial institutions and it’s almost impossible nowadays, to open a bank account in Europe, if you Russian. But again, I’ve been lucky enough to work in crypto. And I feel always years of building crypto infrastructure, it’s kind of separate topic, but guess where I’m going with is, is script, um, is like a neutral layer, which doesn’t judge people based on their password, which I.

[00:39:51] Anonymous Guest: Overall is a good thing though, where might be some misuse to it. Yet banking system is used to longer, you know, $3 of money every year and to, you know, fate always a drug trade. So I think it’s fine. But more interesting question is that how is affecting Russian people you have to understand Russia has been experiencing for the last, I would say 10 years.

[00:40:17] Anonymous Guest: Economic decline. And it’s mostly been caused by discrim relaxation. Certain economic economic policy run by Putin. And in the sense of average citizen, it means that average Russian in last 10 years didn’t have much sort of economic opportunities or options. Average citizen couldn’t, you know, travel a lot internationally or by like, uh, you know, IM imported like expensive goods, like latest iPhones or, um, expensive cars, Europeans, American cars.

[00:40:53] Anonymous Guest: and a lot of Russian citizens will experience like a new decline because of the sanctions. I mean, sanctions are real, but the, the irony of sation is once you get, once you are poor, you kind review your life around, you know, other things, you know, like family, maybe reading books and, you know, like watching and pirate content because you’re not gonna pay.

[00:41:21] Anonymous Guest: Netflix and stuff. And there is like a huge amount of people in Russia who are like, I don’t care about sanctions because I wasn’t going to Monica anyway. I wasn’t buying, you know, Mercedes anyway. I mean, I didn’t have the, like a yacht, you know, so it’s kind, it’s kind okay. I’m gonna spend, you know, more time on my Dutch, which is like outside of the city house, you know, farming.

[00:41:48] Anonymous Guest: You know, like veggies and like raising chickens. I mean, if you look back to Soviet union people in Soviet union, they were super poor in terms of GDP, but they still’s like, he’s a human, like amazing in a sense they can find meaning in life and, you know, adopt and. As long as like state propaganda can convince people that always sort of economic misfortunes are caused by the west, then, you know, people obviously not gonna rebel.

[00:42:19] Anonymous Guest: And in fact, the more poor people are the easiest to control them and to influence like a state propaganda on them. So I think sanctions in this like short term that it has almost no effect, but even in the long term, because. They, they had this fact in short term that all the people who could leave the country, they left the country.

[00:42:43] Anonymous Guest: And a lot of people who want to live wanted to leave the country, they kind of now made the decision either to deliver the state. But it’s like people who were not gonna leave the country for them. You know, it’s like, it, it doesn’t change their word view. Right. In fact, it probably makes them angry because let’s say they used to buy with like Zara clothes.

[00:43:05] Anonymous Guest: Right. And, and za like left Russian market. So they must angry with Zara. Right. Because Zara is like private company. So it was like it’s own decision, you know, to live Russia. I mean, you could argue that with like social pressure, which is probably true, but I guess it just makes people more angry to the west and.

[00:43:26] Anonymous Guest: I’ve had a lot of argument that people will be angry, so they will get on the streets because of democracy and they will overflow the government. But that is like literally impossible at this point. I think the latest point in Russian history, it was possible. It was 2008. Which was like 14 years ago. So it’s about 14 years late in the sense that all the people who were like for freedom and democracy, they were either imprisoned or, or jailed or of the country.

[00:43:53] Anonymous Guest: I mean, all the leaders and then R police is like kind, really good. And the whole sort of spy state is really good. It’s like we had these videos where people would go on. It’s like red, Square’s the center of the Moscow with, uh, we were just like a blank, uh, paper, right? It’s like white paper has, there is nothing.

[00:44:16] Anonymous Guest: And they’re arrested in like 30 seconds. Right. It’s like, uh, I mean, having seen it with, through psych ridiculous video now, it’s like pretty good. And then it was even more funny video. So I was this guy. See, he’s holding just like a blank paper. It’s like completely. Alone. So it’s something with mass gathering and then the other guy’s filming him.

[00:44:36] Anonymous Guest: And so he is getting arrested immediately. And then there is another lady there, which is like filming, which is like, just like a bypass passer. Right. And she’s like clearly pro like Putin pro uh, power. And she’s like, oh, you like sort of manufacturing this sort of Western propaganda here is like, no, I’m just like shooting everything.

[00:44:57] Anonymous Guest: And she’s like, if you’re shooting. Then you should like ask me and he’s like, okay, I’m gonna ask you, tell me what you will think. And she’s like on the camera, like starts to, you know, say, oh, I support the government. I support everything. And it’s not even 30 seconds. And she’s also getting arrested. It’s like, it’s like so funny.

[00:45:17] Anonymous Guest: But the point is they just basically arrest everyone. They don’t even care what you say. It’s just like, if you try to, you know, have a public opinion, Where it’s not even like any sort of attention to what you say, you just, you just get arrested. It doesn’t even matter what you say, because you know, you can be like row Eagle have hidden messages.

[00:45:39] Anonymous Guest: It’s government not taking its changes. Right. If anything, it just, uh, is like any kind of during the war, public speech or activity, you just get sent to jail. So always sanctions, they obviously harm a Russian economy. That’s like for sure, but they’re not gonna result to overflowing the government. I mean, they might result in a sense that if some sort of higher ranking officials will be pissed and then they will stage a queue secretly and privately, but it’s kind of, you know, a different thing.

[00:46:13] Anonymous Guest: It’s not like democratic way to do it. I would say. And long term, you have to look at countries like I on North Korea, right. They show. Once, like the government can control the narrative, then Cuba. Right. Then the country can live like four decades under the sanctions. It doesn’t matter. And Russia has like a lot of nature resources.

[00:46:37] Anonymous Guest: So it’s like, it’s not gonna be start of any the basic production. So I don’t think it’s gonna work to do anything to the government in short term or long term, unless some is like, like.

[00:46:50] Angela: Kind of trying to bridge the, the, like the people that are affected by this war between Russia and Ukraine. You mentioned that, of course, like any war, like anything that you can have, depending on there are gonna be people who are pro or against shore, but there are also a lot of people in Russia that are against the war happening and have friends and family in Ukraine.

[00:47:15] Angela: I was curious if number one, you have friends and family in Ukraine. And how much of a kind of like shared. Culture or like relationships exist already between those countries that kind of make it just like, not such a black and white and like you versus us situation that the at least Putin probably wants to make the narrative out to be that it’s like good versus bad.

[00:47:44] Angela: It’s more like it’s very gray because there’s connected points. I’m curious what your connected points are. How much that was even just like part of everyday kind of interaction between the two countries and cultures pre pre-war.

[00:47:57] Anonymous Guest: Well, I mean, Russia says immense history, Ukraine. I mean our nations or a culture, language, food families.

[00:48:07] Anonymous Guest: A lot of people literally has families split across the countries like marriages and kids. I have friends in Ukraine and I, again, been blessed, being friends with reasonable and understanding people. and I think people will overcome always political crisis in the war because to me, relationship with other people is more important than whatever political agenda, anyone pushing though.

[00:48:36] Anonymous Guest: I have to say the war is real and, you know, damage to crane down Israel and it’s immense damage and Russia will have to repay it. In all the means, you know, like morally, and even in the sense of, you know, some kind of contributions I can imagine in the future because you can’t just say know bomb, the other can tell, oh, actually, you know, what’s wrong.

[00:49:01] Anonymous Guest: So now, you know, we are best is again, it is not how it works. And I think a lot of in Russia, people don’t realize it yet, but I mean, everyone is guilty to a certain degree, right. I mean, but it’s impossible to measure how much, you know, each person is guilty, but we is like a measure of being more or less guilty.

[00:49:22] Anonymous Guest: But as a whole countries, the nation, you know, it is like people say, oh, it’s like, the Putin is the bad, but people are the good, but no, like one man can’t do much. Right. there always like some other people, you know, supported directly or indirectly in the way. And I think as a nation and as a country, we’ll be, you know, suffering for starting this war and, you know, dealing with it for like decades to come.

[00:49:49] Anonymous Guest: I mean, I don’t see it being, you know, a small thing or, you know, going away. I think people would realize, I hope in near future. I hope the fastest is they. And yeah, I certainly feel sorry for Korean people and I hope we can find a way to resolve it as fast as we can. I hope the war, Y as fast as we can and the war, Y I hope there is a way, you know, to like rebuild, you know, repay the damages done because in my opinion, this is what’s gonna happen eventually on the transitionary

[00:50:25] Jesse: note to the close of.

[00:50:28] Jesse: Episode. Um, hopefully we can end it on a little bit of a higher note, um, because we always like to end on a sweet treat in the fortune cookie section. So you were just kind of talking about the hopes of how it could resolve. Do you have like a best scenario of how it could resolve a positive scenario?

[00:50:50] Anonymous Guest: Uh, I mean, I honestly hope just the word ends as soon as possible. I dunno, what would be the best scenario at this point? I guess I just would say what I don’t want to happen, which I can see can happen is that this conflict would last, you know, for years and years, you know, Russia stays under the sanction in Europe because basically is like European know Europe, Ukraine became to.

[00:51:17] Anonymous Guest: Better European, better ground for proxy wars, for China or other parties, which will, you know, be sort of poisoning entire Europe for yes to come. I guess that would be the worst outcome. And I hope this just does not happen. I hope. Somehow we find the way to stop the war and start rebuilding, you know, our countries, our economies, our like burn bridges and relationships.

[00:51:45] Anonymous Guest: So it’s more like a pure feeling. And I mean, as hope goes, I’m trying to be really optimistic. So, uh, this is what I hope for again, I’m not a politician, so I have no idea how to achieve.

[00:52:00] Angela: Have any of your friends in Ukraine mentioned any like actually helpful things that people can do that are outside of Ukraine?

[00:52:09] Angela: Like I know people are donating money. I know that there’s like crypto made a positive wave when, um, people were able to donate crypto to the Ukrainian government. Are there any like big things that you’ve heard from your friends there that. Oh that actually worked or like, oh, I’m happy that happened.

[00:52:28] Angela: And maybe we can do more of, or encourage

[00:52:30] Anonymous Guest: more. Yeah, I would say just, um, you know, help people who are in need because of this work who like displaced or, you know, need like a shelter need, you know, food or, you know, need like bank card to pay for something or, you know, whatever they need it just, you know, just try to minimize the suffering of humans who are affected by.

[00:52:57] Anonymous Guest: By by the war, I think it would be the best. Um,

[00:53:02] Jesse: well thank you for joining, uh, us on this episode and lending us your voice and your opinion as Angela at up top. Obviously like it’s not a easy thing or technically legal thing for you to be doing. So it’s really great to, um, hear from someone who could, who could really guide kind of like what’s going on in the

[00:53:21] Anonymous Guest: current situ.

[00:53:22] Anonymous Guest: Yeah, thank you for inviting me. And despite this being a hard conversation to have, I think staying away from this topic at least times is something I would regret. And I think it’s, uh, great to step in in ways you. and I would encourage everyone to do it because humans have long lives. And if you don’t do something you feel right in the moment, then you have to live for the rest of your life.

[00:53:55] Anonymous Guest: Uh, thinking about it and caring with sort of emotional, uh, baggage through your entire life. And that’s like, doesn’t.

[00:54:06] Jesse: um, well, listeners, if you have any questions on this topic or for us,

[00:54:12] Angela: or if you are Ukrainian or have Ukrainian family, friends directly, uh, affected right now and you wanna share their story so that we can kind of balance out what we discussed today, in the perspective we share today, since we weren’t able to secure ARA guest for this episode, Also contact us.

[00:54:33] Angela: Rison um, tell us where you’re from@gmail.com. We could do a follow up episode if there’s someone who’s know, really interested in sharing that perspective, um, or just share some stories that we read on the show as well.