Author: telluswhereyourefrom

Jesse Lin 0:24
This week, we’re going to talk about the new year for us, Asian folks, Chinese New Year, we want to share with you everything we know, which is not al ot about all the different traditions, food sayings, all that jazz that comes with Chinese New Year. So to kick it off, first of all, this year is the year of the ox. So hopefully we’ll have a very strong related year with great outcomes as the year goes on. Angela, what’s your zodiac?

Full Transcript (Note: Transcribed via AI, may contain errors)

Angela Lin 1:03
I’m a horse. So it’s something about like having a lot of energy. And like, just to backtrack a little first of all, Happy Chinese New Year because today is the beginning of Chinese New Year. And it lasts for 15 days. So today’s the first day and Jesse and I are wearing what red we own. So yeah, neither of us is wearing a super auspicious shade of red. Yeah, but this is just the best we can do. So you know, deal with it.

Jesse Lin 1:39
That shade of red is very daring, the auspicious shade of red.

Angela Lin 1:44
Yeah, seriously, who wears that? And I’m like, a normal basis. Not that many.

Jesse Lin 1:48
No, thank you.

Angela Lin 1:49
Yeah. But yeah, I’m a horse. I don’t know. It’s like what you think of a horse like it runs around? It’s like adventurous and and like doing shit. How about you?

Jesse Lin 2:01
I am a sheep and or go depending on who you use to translate. I think that in general, this sign is just supposed to be very auspicious. Like lucky. I don’t know if there are any other like specific traits related to a goat, or a sheep. I do one fun fact about me and my Zodiac is that I don’t actually like lamb or sheep or goat very much.

And cuz you’re a carnivore?

Yeah, well, no, I like meat.

Angela Lin 2:34
I mean, sorry. Wow, I can’t use words today. I meant cannibal. Like your own people.

Jesse Lin 2:41
Yes, I can’t, I cannot cannibalize my own animal. So, you know, that’s very anecdotal. anecdotal, but I’ve always attributed that to the fact that I am sign of the sheep and so I cannot eat my own spiritual animal.

Angela Lin 2:57
You know, I feel that because when Ramon and I lived in Japan last year or two years ago, I can’t keep track of time, but anyways, previously, some some places specialize in horsemeat. And obviously, it’s like very well prepared and like done by chefs that know what they’re doing. And it’s supposed to taste good, but I’m like, I can’t eat a horse. I’m a horse. Like, I’m not gonna eat my own kind.

Jesse Lin 3:27
It’s just, it’s a little bit weird. I do. I definitely feel bad for the people who are like very common signs like, ox, chicken, like, you kind of have to eat those things. But for me, I’d never really could I didn’t really like the taste of, and I still don’t really like the taste of..

Angela Lin 3:44
Well lamb is like, an on the fence kind of thing. Sorry, I love lamb. So I love eating your people. folly. Um, but I looked up the ox, because I feel like I was a little bit confused, like, okay, so there are these 12 zodiac signs. And every year we cycle through different zodiac sign, but like, what does it even mean to be the year of blank, right, like? So first of all, the ox is known for being faithful, diligent, persistent, obliging and sympathetic. And this is largely due to the legend in which the like zodiac signs came from, where like the Jade Emperor tasked all these animals to like, you know, win a race and whoever came in, you know, the place that you placed in the race determined like your order in the Zodiac cycle, and the ox was definitely going to be first and then this shady ass rat hid on his head and like, jumped off right at the end so that he was first so the ox was diligent, and obliging and sympathetic towards the fact that the rat couldn’t get past the river and then got friggin you know, gypped at the end because the rats sneaky. Well, okay, anyway, so happy here if the ox especially to you ox signs. But beyond being you know beyond talking about the zodiacs, we wanted to get into everything about Chinese Lunar New Year, because to be honest, Jesse and I knew very little about this topic, up until right before we recorded this episode. And honestly, I kind of feel like, I’m hoping it’s not just us, like, I kind of feel like, especially for a lot of these big holidays, even outside of Asian culture, like big holidays, you often forget where or you never really knew where the origins came from. Because you focus on like, you know, the specific traditions that are still practiced, or like the foods or eating or whatever, but you don’t actually know the origin story. So I’m giving us a little break that we didn’t know this ahead of time. But we thought it would be fun to teach you guys or remind you guys, if you already knew all this stuff of kind of like the history of where it came from, and like, what a bunch of the most common traditions mean. So I think I can kick it off with like, where did even this concept of guo nian, which means like crossing the new crossing the year or like, you know, passing the New Year come from? Well, so first of all, Chinese New Year has been celebrated for 3800 years. Like, is that frickin insane? Or what?

Jesse Lin 6:41
That is pretty crazy.

Angela Lin 6:42
I always compare everything to the, to the age of the United States as a country, and I’m like we haven’t, we’re only a couple of hundred years old, and like, this tradition from China has existed for almost 4000 hours, you know, so it’s freaking insane. But so there’s, you know, many legends, but it did start originally as like a more religious, like sacrificing to God sacrificing to your ancestors kind of ritualistic holiday. And the legend is that there used to be this monster that looked kind of like a lion, so a lion like monster that lived in the depths of the ocean. And this monsters name was Nian, which means a year in Chinese. And every year, this monster would live, you know, all year long in the depths of the ocean, except for the night before the New Year, where it would like come up and like wreak havoc on everything and eat livestock and people and everyone was just like terrified, until some old man randomly figured out that this monster was afraid of a couple things. So one is the color red, which is why we’re wearing red. And it’s also why people post like, you know, those lucky sayings that are printed on red paper in their houses and outside their houses and stuff. Over the New Year, it’s also afraid of loud noises. So he supposedly had burned bamboo, which I guess crackles when it’s burnt. So it was like the earliest version of firecrackers. And by doing all these things, he was able to ward off and protect himself at least from from Nian. And so that’s also where so guo nian is essentially like, you know, getting past, Nian this monster. And this is also where the lion dance lion and Dragon Dance like tradition came from is like when you go when you see in like Chinatown, or wherever you’re seeing, like these lion dances, it’s supposedly recreating, you know, there’s loud noises and like firecrackers going off. It’s like recreating the warding off of Nian and sending him back into the depths of the seed, which is cool. I like that. Well, what did you find?

Jesse Lin 9:17
Well, basically, yeah, that’s the same thing for the general idea of why it’s called Guo Nian. And what I found is that there’s like, there are many parts of the tradition that rely on words sounding kind of the same or similar, which is really funny. It’s just kind of a play on play on words. So there was this thing that I was looking at that was like, what not to bring to a Taiwanese home during Chinese New Year. And obviously, like many of these things, as I said, like you would never bring to anybody’s home period, but I guess people do for some reason. But the first thing was like four of anything because the letter Four sounds like Si, which means death in Chinese. So therefore, like anything that you bring in fours is not lucky because of that. It seems like something really small. But I feel like when you’re able to recognize something like that people are like, Oh, yeah, good on you. I think it’s also it like the plan words is also really fun in a sense, because in another sense, it’s also very literal. Like we were talking about. Guo Nian like, I mean, literally is like the literal translation of like, passing or surviving this creature. And like, I never even thought that that was just exactly what it meant. Like, you always think you know, your Chinese stuff like this stuff that we used to read from Confucius.

Angela Lin 10:46
Yeah, it’s funny. I also found that so obviously, while in a previous episode, when I had my dad on, I think we talked about Chinese New Year a little bit and he’s like, what do you guys even remember about Chinese New Year and we’re both just like the money I don’t know. The red envelopes right? And so I found the origin of that as well. So the official name of like, these red envelopes are like gifting of money in Chinese is Yāsuìqián. And suì was the name of another monster. It’s all about them monsters up in here. Yeah, some demon who was obsessed with kids and torturing kids in their sleep the night before New Year’s. So apparently the money thing came from that there was like some family who had money and they wanted to save their kids. So they gave him eight coins. And the thing I read didn’t specifically go into the eight but to Jesse’s point of like, you know numbers and words having double entendre type shit eight is a lucky number in Chinese for those who don’t already know because eight is ba and fa is like you know, the you know bringing money like wealth and welcoming wealth into your life like fa-fa-fa , so eight is a really lucky number. So anyways, this guy gave his child eight gold coins to play with at night to like, keep him awake so that he wouldn’t fall asleep. And then he when he did lie down he had put the eight coins into folded into some red paper and put it under his pillow. And so when the demon came to touch the child’s head, he like knocked open the red paper and the coins shown this like super strong light onto the demon and like warded it away. And I don’t know, this was like, not well explained in the story that I read, but the coins were apparently fairies. Like they were actually fairies that were protecting the kid – anyway. So So now because of that legend, it’s you know, you’re like protecting your children and like bringing good fortune by gifting them these red envelopes of money.

Jesse Lin 13:26
Okay, a few things there. First of all, this is like, I love this tale because it’s very similar to the other ones where it just shows where we get all like a lot of our drive from this is like the most Scrooge McDuck capitalistic story ever the money saves you from the monster The second thing is I thought because I remember when we did the red envelopes my mom told me Yāsuìqián was like money you refer to it that way when you’re giving it to someone younger than you but as a person receiving it you still consider it a Hóngbāo and not Yāsuìqián but maybe I’m wrong

Angela Lin 14:09
Maybe that’s because the legend is about protecting children. So when you’re giving it to younger people, that’s where it’s the killing you know? Well Ya is like to, you know, press down on yeah, you’re like squashing this demon Suì.

Jesse Lin 14:27
Well, let’s talk about a big part of Chinese New Year, which is the getting together and having of the food. The food is very important because there’s like a few traditional things that we typically always eat during Chinese New Year. I will start with one of them. The first thing that I think that’s most common to see is fish because there’s even a phrase idiom, phrase or idiom tied to this which will let you guys know about later, but the fish is like it’s always there. And it just represents the same thing. Like it’s very auspicious. The idea that you have fish and you eat it means that you’ll be lucky every year and have like extra surpluses every year. And there’s some like funny rules related to how the dish needs to be placed. And I actually didn’t know any of these things, but and I can’t even remember how it was done when I was a kid. But I feel like these are things probably like even some of the older Auntie’s and stuff. Like, especially like our parents and stuff may or may not follow, because I’ve never remembered them mentioning any of them. But they’re things like related to the position of the fish where the head needs to be placed towards distinguished guests or elders as a sign of respect. You can only enjoy the fish after the after the person who eats the fish head. The person with a fish head is directed to eats first, and you shouldn’t move the fish like you shouldn’t shift it around like move its head and tail. You shouldn’t flip that like stuff like that.

Angela Lin 16:12
There’s no like pass me the fish. That’s allowed.

Jesse Lin 16:15
Yeah, the fish stays there. You just you go to the fish for the fish.

Angela Lin 16:22
That’s funny. I feel like I vaguely actually recall at least one time in my life some one practicing this these rules when I’ve eaten the fish. Another food thing that I think most people know if you’re Asian is noodles. Because noodles represent your life. So like the longer the noodle, the better. And most people know this, but when you eat the noodles, you’re not supposed to bite the noodle, like cut it, cut it in half or whatever because if you cut or bite the noodle, you’re like shortening your life. So you want to like slurp them noodles up all in one go or you know, slurp it all up so it’s in your mouth and then you can chew it.

Jesse Lin 17:13
Something else that I think everyone’s really familiar with is dumplings. Dumplings represent basically wealth and fortune because you can pinch it in a shape that looks like ye old Chinese money. I don’t know if you guys have seen the old Chinese money but like if you’ve ever had the Asian version of what’s that? What’s that Jewish gold candy?

Angela Lin 17:38
Oh, I don’t know. I know what you’re talking about. But I don’t know what it’s called.

Jesse Lin 17:45
It’s it’s like the Chinese equivalent of the Jewish gold money we have the chocolates in the shape of like ye old Chinese money and you can you can make dumplings into that kind of shape as well. So eating them basically represents eating like wealth and you will make more money the following year.

Angela Lin 18:03
Can we talk about how gross those chocolates were? They were like not really chocolate I feel like chocolate

Jesse Lin 18:10
Yeah, it was like chocolate with like river clay or something it was really bad

Angela Lin 18:16
I feel like because we were in America there was some like westernization there because I did get those when I was growing up but there was also the I got some chocolate coins like Western coins…

Jesse Lin 18:30
Wait for Chinese New Year?

Angela Lin 18:30
Yeah, I’d get it like in an envelope like a red envelope or something. Oh, cuz I don’t know if you got this but like besides money I feel like it was also common growing up this is now not going into like official traditions just like what I remember from growing up but I would also get like I don’t know what Chinese school or whatever. They would give us red envelopes, but they’re not. Oh, actually, you know what every year they would give us those half dollar coins. You remember that?

Jesse Lin 18:59
The Sacagawea coins?

Angela Lin 19:00
Isn’t that $1? There was it was like FDR isn’t FDR or Teddy Teddy. Teddy Roosevelt, right? I don’t know. Anyways, it was like giant coins. I feel like they gave us every year but it would be like that and then some of the gold coins and then you know what? Forget the gold coins they don’t taste good. The the candy I loved was that that pink candy that was wrapped in the like shiny red foil. You don’t know what I’m talking about. It was like vaguely strawberry flavor but not really. It was a hard candy?

Jesse Lin 19:37
Now that you said strawberry it sounds more familiar but

Angela Lin 19:39
On the outside the the like foil is like red with like a gold probably like fa or some other lucky Chinese word.

Jesse Lin 19:48
Okay, okay. I think I recall what you’re talking about

Angela Lin 19:51
And it was a hard pink candy that was like, and it was ribbed a little bit you know, I’m talking about

Jesse Lin 19:56
Okay, I was like I think I think I remember I also remember as part of the envelopes they would give you like when they had nothing to give you like money, they would just give you like a blast. Like do you remember when we get those from temple and it would just be like a slip of paper and you’re like, I can’t read it.

Angela Lin 20:17
That’s what happens when it’s a bunch of parents who are gifting nothing to their children who grew up in America. Yes.

Jesse Lin 20:26
Oh, do you have any? Like, have you made dumplings with your family?

Angela Lin 20:30
You know what? No, because my mom is sorry, mom. My mom is not that good at cooking. So no, I haven’t. But my my aunt who used to teach us in our Confucius lessons in our temple. She’s really good at making dumplings. So I don’t think I got to make it with her. But I’ve like been lucky enough to have eaten her handmade dumplings, which were again, delicious. How about you?

Jesse Lin 20:55
I don’t specifically recall an instance where I was making dumplings with my grandparents. But I feel like there had to be at least once where we did it because my like, my dad’s grandparents, I would. They’re definitely what I would call Chuántǒng. They’re like super old school. But I do very clearly remember making another special kind of food the Tāngyuán and we called it in Taiwanese wan-ah. But also, we didn’t make it specifically. I don’t remember making it specific for Chinese New Year’s. We always made it for like, Mid Autumn Festival. I think it was savory. Not sweet.

Angela Lin 21:34
Blasphemy. Interesting. Well, yeah, I don’t think I’ve made it. I’ve never made dumplings with my family. But I’ve made it in, in like school with, you know, like other Chinese American people who were who wanted to celebrate and were better cooks than I was at the time I made some with them. That was fun. But beyond the currency related thing, I also saw that another reason why dumplings are like a traditional thing that you make over Chinese New Year is that it takes a lot of time to make dumplings. So it’s an excuse to spend time with your family and likes pass many hours or whatever, making them so that you cross over into the new year together. So yeah, that was nice.

Jesse Lin 22:27
It’s just like that scene in crazy, crazy, rich Asians are all making dumplings together. It’s really a warming cute.

Angela Lin 22:34
And then they shit on each other for how ugly their dumplings are? Yeah.

Jesse Lin 22:39
Absolutely.

Angela Lin 22:43
Well, one other thing I found, which, like I had always just like, brushed off. I was like, I know, this is the thing, but I don’t care enough to look it up. I finally looked it up for you. Why is it called Lunar New Year? And why does it keep changing every year? Like, why is it not all on the same day, every year? Well, this also dates back one zillion years ago, which is that way back when in China, Lunar New Year was or sorry, lunar calendar was the the main calendar. So basically, it’s a calendar where it’s based off of the lunar cycles. So like literally we you know, the moon and I looked it up and one lunation, which is a word is about 29 and a half days, so every month is either 29 or 30 days. And because it fluctuates like this, in comparison to our like, you know, calendar year that we go by lunar year is only 354 days. So that’s why there’s this like difference. And technically, so the calendar year that we go by is called the Gregorian calendar. And it goes by the solar cycles. So that’s why it’s different, because we’re basing it off of different things in the sky. And China was all about the lunar stuff until in 1949, very recent, very recent, it was under the Communist regime because..

Jesse Lin 24:22
I was going to say it’s Mao

Angela Lin 24:23
Mao don’t let you do anything. He not only got rid of the lunar calendar and was like we’re going by this Western calendar. He also was like, Yyu can’t celebrate Chinese New Year anymore. Because Yeah, I mean, I guess it makes sense because during that time, he was like, screw Confucius screw all this like, you know, literature and religion and all that stuff. So he was getting rid of all that. So I guess it makes sense, but then in late 90s, it came back. So China was like, Okay, okay, we can bring the shit back, but they like rebranded it it’s kind of weird, I never thought about it until I was looking all this stuff up but they rebranded it as Spring Festival. So instead of specifically calling it like, New Year, it’s Chūnqiū jiē which which is Yeah, I you know, we’ve heard that too I guess. But it’s supposed to be you know, you can call it one or the other but they deemed it Spring Festival and it’s like officially a week long holiday where you get to take time off to travel to your family to celebrate the New Year.

Jesse Lin 25:34
Shall we move into our fortune cookie clothes where we teach you guys three common phrases that you will hear if you are at a Chinese or Taiwanese or Mandarin Asian speaking household during the new years.

Angela Lin 25:52
And that you should liberally say to everyone Yes, and you’ll be loved and adored. And they’ll be very pleasantly surprised.

Jesse Lin 26:03
Like just say them like your please and thank yous. Like don’t even say please and thank you just say these phrases.

Angela Lin 26:09
It’s better than please and thank you. All right. Well, one of them. You know, I’m going to skip past just saying Happy New Year’s not good. That’s like baseline. So but if you want to know it’s Xīnnián kuàilè , but that is baseline, that’s not even a blessing. You’re just saying Happy New Year, that doesn’t count. The next one is Wànshì rúyì is like a pretty common one. Just like full disclosure, my brain only remembers like two or three of them. But that’s a go to one which means it’s very popular. And it basically means So literally, it means like, you know of a one zillion themes that you are trying to do. May you be successful at them. It’s like anything that you do you’ll you’ll be successful at them.

Jesse Lin 27:06
Interesting, awesome. Well, I have one which is Nián nián yǒuyú and it is dovetails with the fish thing that we were talking about earlier that basically means every year you will have fish literally. Why not? Well, that literal translation is not like you will always be eating fish forever. That sounds awful. But it basically means that you will have the good fortune and the good fortunes that the fish means and that will be brought to you every year so basically like same thing as saying like having good luck good fortune improving yields every year.

Angela Lin 27:47
Improving yields. Just so you know, though technically it’s a different yú so like it’s not the same character.

Unknown Speaker 27:54
Well, it’s yes, but it’s like the play on the words. Yeah,

Angela Lin 27:58
Yes. Just for you Western people. It’s not the words of phrases not say like year year have fish in literal, literal words. Let’s see. What’s the other one? Yeah. Gōngxǐ fācái. It’s is essentially just throwing all the good stuff at you like, congratulations, wealth. play all the things. And if you’re a child, where do you want to act like a child? And what we used to say, every year was Gōngxǐ fācái hong bao na lie – Happy New Year, give me them red envelopes? Yeah. Yeah, well, actually, one thing I want to plug because we always tell you to write us in and we definitely want you to write us in. But one, you know, there were so many things that we could have talked about with this topic. But one thing we didn’t talk about is that way more than Chinese and Taiwanese people celebrate Lunar New Year because China had such an influence on all of Asia essentially right so like Lunar New Year is celebrated by so many different Asian countries and they’re like different traditions and like you know, specific flavors to how you interpret different things and what you’re supposed to do over the Lunar New Year so what would be really fun is if you have different traditions that you’re used to celebrating over Lunar New Year because you are you are Chinese or you’re not Chinese and you have like totally different traditions we’d love if you write us in and tell us what those things are. And reminder that we are still looking for listeners story submissions, so write us in about your experience with either this topic or whatever you want at telluswhereyourefrom@gmail.com.

Angela Lin 0:22
Today we’re bringing back Asians doing cool shit with another Asian doing really cool shit. We have AZRA with us today. Hey, AZRA.

Full Transcript (Note: Transcribed via AI, may contain errors)

AZRA 0:32
Hey, everybody. Hey guys. Thanks for having me. Love the title.

Angela Lin 0:36
Thank you. Thank you. So want to let our listeners know a little bit about you. And also, you can roll it all into your intro. But you know, our signature question for our guests as always, but where are you really from?

AZRA 0:52
Mm hmm. Yeah, definitely. So I’m AZRA, and I’m a Korean American artist, singer, songwriter, substance pop artist, singer, songwriter, model, author and motivational speaker. And based in Los Angeles, California, when it comes to my music, I created this genre called substance pop, because I love just like pop music. And that’s what I grew up with, and listen to, and also learn English with. But I am very big on having substance and seeking depth in anything in life. And that kind of stems from my experience with my eye condition where I was almost permanently half blind, and things like that. So it just like various experiences really made me realize, you know, and become obsessed with seeking things like beyond our eyes can see. So that’s what I do. I just perform and try to touch as many people as I can, and try to help them go after their dreams and have that confidence to own who they are.

Angela Lin 1:58
That’s awesome.

AZRA 1:59
Yeah.

Angela Lin 2:02
Do you mind us asking what AZRA your stage name means.

AZRA 2:07
So well, growing up, like I’ve always had this thought that I wanted to name my future daughter AZRA. And like, literally, the name just popped up in my head. But then like, as I was, like, going down this journey of like, realizing that I need to go after my passion, which is in music, and, you know, trying to like kind of, I like to say, I was like stripping the layers off of my onion, trying to get to the core to realize who I am as an artist. And then I was like, holy shit. You know, maybe AZRA is not the daughter that I wanted to name in the future. It’s actually the little girl inside of me, who’s been wanting to express herself and who’s kind of been ignored, since I was four, in terms of, you know, going after my dreams and singing and inspiring people. So that’s kind of how I realized that I need to bring AZRA to life and, you know, fully support her and pursue the dream.

Jesse Lin 3:03
So how did you get started in the music business,

AZRA 3:07
I don’t want to say I stumbled into it. But it wasn’t like, Oh, I’m gonna go into the music business. I’ve always been a singer and a performer since I was like four years old. And so I’ve always done that, you know, even growing up in South Korea, I was literally it was either school, or like singing or being in a play or a musical or singing in a choir. But I really decided to go after it in 2017, with a release of my EP called freedom in March.

Angela Lin 3:38
What was it that like, inspired you in that moment to to pursue it finally, as like your main thing?

AZRA 3:46
It was like a thing that was just building inside of me that just wanted to break free. But it took me a very long time to realize that, like, I can go after singing, and I can do this professionally. And, you know, I have this clear vision about what I want to do in music and the impact I want to make in the world. And I can do that. I’ve always had that vision since I was a kid, but maybe because of like the external, you know, maybe like circumstances or like society pressures and all the different types of experiences that I’ve had, I thought that it was too late. Like even when I was like nine years old, I thought it was too late for me to go after my dream. And, and and it took me a long time to kind of work through that on my own. And I think that’s why I’m so passionate and so gung ho now about helping others realize that like it’s never too late and that like if you have that vision, you just need a little bit of a spark that is already there that just needs to be ignited.

Angela Lin 4:47
Well, let’s talk about that, I think a lot of our parents, you know, put certain pressures on us to follow the more tried and true career paths, doctor, lawyer, engineer things that make big bucks and like they they understand, right? Because I think a lot of these careers especially that are untraditional in their eyes, but like creative fields, or just something that they haven’t heard of, they just can’t really like grasp, right? Like, what does that even mean to like, do that as a profession? So when you were thinking about pursuing singing and music industry in general as like, your main profession, how did your parents take that?

AZRA 5:27
My parents, they were very, I’d say like, they’re more progressive than a lot of like, you know, stereotypical, like, you know, what society says, like an Asian parent is. But even though they were progressive, like, they were progressive in a way where my mom didn’t tell me to, like, go be a lawyer, go be a doctor, it was more like you can be whatever you want to be, but then it was like, underlying things, you know, like, all you need to go to school, you know, you need a good job a stable one – things like that. So they never put down art, it was more like, they just, I don’t even know how to explain it. It’s just like, and then my mom’s like, really different than me. She’s amazing, obviously. But she’s very different in personality, where, like, I love to perform, and I love to connect with people, and just be onstage and share art. Whereas she’s extremely talented. She’s a singer, like I learned singing from her just growing up and watching her. But she’s not about like, standing on stage and showing up like that. So, you know, growing up, I do remember that every time I wanted to be in a musical, or I want to go after cheerleading, or be part of a dance crew all that like every single artistic endeavor. I didn’t get that, like, Yes, go do it. It was more like, oh, okay, you know, it’s kind of like that. So I think it was very subliminal in a way. And, you know, I’ve talked to my mom about it. And, you know, she told me, and we had like, a heart to heart and she realizes that she could have been more supportive vocally. But she did tell me that, like, you know, we’re a little bit different, where, like, she’s so used to that traditional Asian way, you know, over overseas in Asia, not American overseas, where, like, you know, you don’t really want to show up like that, and dance and all that stuff. So that’s when I realized, like, oh, yeah, very, she is very traditional. But she tried her best, you know, trying to understand me, um, but it wasn’t like, fully go for it but that was kind of my experience. And then when I had a heart to heart with my mom recently about it, you know, she told me, she’s like, I, I support you. But it’s just that, you know, she has her own, you know, things and her personality. So.

Angela Lin 7:53
I feel like I can definitely relate to that, because Jesse and I have talked about before that, like, we feel like as our parents get older, they have become softer, and like, are more willing to talk about things that maybe didn’t go the way we would have liked as kids or we didn’t get the support that we wanted growing up. And like where that came from, they’re more willing to talk about it. And I can totally see that my parents do the same thing. Like they’re not there, that they’re not going to be like, actively on the sidelines cheerleading, you know, screaming out loud like, “yeah, go you!” But if you tell them something, and you’re like, I’m very proud of this, and, like, can you support me? They’re like, of course I support you. You know, it’s there. Yeah it’s just like understated.

AZRA 8:38
And I think I’m an immigrant, and my parents are immigrants. And, you know, I understand because they grew up in a different country, you know, in a different era. I’m learning about different culture, like their culture that’s, like, completely different than America. And that’s, you know, that’s a whole nother subject about like, Asian Americans, right, like, people from Asia, coming to America, still living and still living in America with that mindset of how Asian people live, you know, the whole Confucius way, you know, everybody, keep your head down, be quiet, be humble, and I, and those are great values. And I still study like Confucius, Lao Tzu, you know, all the eastern wisdom and things and try to, like, combine it with our Western beliefs. But at the same time, I think, as Asian Americans, like, we, it’s important for us to realize and help our older generations realize like, hey, like, we shouldn’t be quiet. You know, it doesn’t really work in America, in Korea does, you know, in Korea, like you can’t look at older people in the eyes, because that’s considered disrespectful. You know, so you don’t you kind of bow um, but in America, it’s like, if you don’t look at people in the eyes, when you talk to them, they’ll be like, like, are you listening? So things like that. Right? mean like, yeah,

Jesse Lin 10:01
Yeah, I mean, I definitely agree. And I think that when I was a teenager, I took a lot of things for granted, right? Because you’re like this, this is the world that I live in. And this is the world how it is. But I also in some talks with my mom recently related to this podcast, actually asking her about like, her life experience, like, I had to like, stop for a moment and think like, she went from like a life where there were like, no such things as motorized vehicles to driving like, they now have a Tesla to driving a car, as well as exactly as well as moving to a new country. So completely different value systems as you said, behaviors. So it is a huge adjustment. So like, now that I’m older, and I’m thinking about that, I’m like, I don’t know if I would be so successful being in that same situation where I’m, like, thrown in a completely different environment, and things related to my life are changing so rapidly. So I think that is something that we have also gleaned as an insight from doing doing this podcast.

AZRA 11:08
Yeah, that’s amazing.

Angela Lin 11:09
Okay, we’re getting into right like our identities as being children of these immigrant parents, and also building a sense of self ourselves in this country. So I think a big question we like to ask people that are pursuing more untraditional paths is like, what is it like to be one of the few Asians right, like in your industry? How, how has that or has it not really impacted the way that you know you’ve successfully pursued this path?

AZRA 11:43
I think definitely being one of the very few Asian Americans pursuing like music, and the entertainment industry, it’s definitely, it’s definitely different. And, you know, it’s, it’s not like, there’s like a whole, you know, history of role models and people that we can look back, I mean, music itself, it doesn’t have a blueprint at all, in general music industry, it’s like the jungle, right? It’s like the wild wild west, on top of that, there isn’t a lot of Asian American representation, yes there is, you know, now, like, Kpop is growing, you know, and they’re kind of, you know, exposing that Asian face, you know, Asian faces in media at the same time, like, there’s no Asian American, there’s not many Asian American, right? Artists. And so because of that, yes, I must say that there are definitely a there there are definitely times when I feel like, you know, like, like, we all see it, but why don’t we have more of that. So it’s definitely been a journey. But I know that there are really, really talented Asian American artists out there, and people in the industry that are going after their dreams, like me, and like Amy and so many other amazing artists. So, you know, I keep just going at it and making good connections and meeting good people and trying to stick with the people that are willing to rise together in our industry, and just keep going.

Unknown Speaker 13:13
And actually for listeners, because we chatted a little bit before we started recording, but AZRA is good friends with Amy, who we had on a previous Asians doing cool shit, who’s in the acting biz. One thing that Amy talks about when we chatted with her was that she was able to find like a really cool community of like, young Asian Americans that are also trying to, like, tell their stories in in the movie and film TV industries. Right? So were you also able to find or are you finding those people in that community as well? Or is it like a little more sparse in the music industry?

AZRA 13:53
Yeah, I think in the music industry, it’s it’s more sparse. It’s, um, because like, a there isn’t a lot of Asian Americans, I think that it’s important for us to find each other and, and stick together and help each other and share knowledge. But you know, that path, it’s like, when you do come across another Asian American artist, like, I get so excited, and I try to connect and do whatever we can be like, hey, how can I help? Like, what what are you on? Like, what are you releasing next month? Or when are you when’s your next release, things like that. But I think it’s still on a, like, it’s still in that growth stage where we all kind of have to open up and be open to accepting and feeling okay, that you can help each other like, even if you know if that person is just starting out. But with that being said, I definitely have a good group support group, but I think we can always expand and just keep going.

Jesse Lin 14:51
So maybe changing track a little bit because one of the huge themes of 2020 and hangover 2020 I’m not going to call it 2021, it’s just hangover 2020 has been the situation regarding COVID. And I know that being cramped at home and not having the freedom to go out and explore things can really be inhibiting of creativity. So I wanted to understand, like, how has that impacted you from a creative standpoint?

AZRA 15:19
I had to pivot. I think like in the beginning, it definitely did. Because right before quarantine, this was like back in March, right of last year, whatever that was. Literally, I had released my single call Dangerous. And in like, like at the end of February, and then that led to a single release show. So I had a I had an awesome release show in Hollywood at a place called Madame Siam. And we literally packed the entire house. And it was so fun, like, people showed up, we had so much fun and like I don’t know, like 2020 looks really, really awesome. And literally literally ended like right after that release show. A couple days later, I flew to Orlando to perform for a huge, like college festival convention in Orlando. And that was really cool, too. But I remember like, going into the airport, and I actually took a face mask because I had been hearing about these like this weird thing this Rona. And I was like, okay, so I was one of the few people wearing the mask in the airport. And I remember my managers like you’re you okay, like, okay, protect yourself, like you’re kind of freaking people out. But he was cool with it. And then we got to Orlando, the show was amazing. And then came back literally like three days later, it was stay at home order quarantine. So in the beginning, when that happened, I was like, oh, this is just temporary. I was kind of like in denial a little bit. So I’m like, oh, yeah, it’s fine. So then I started doing more yoga, like meditating and just, you know, doing my own thing in my house. And then when it just got more serious, and we had to stay home for a long period of time, I did go through a period of time where I was just kind of like, what is this and it did kind of affect me in a weird way where, like, you know, I had been go, go go for the last like three years, with my music career and being forced to like, kind of pause for a while. And when, like, all of us, like the industry was just just trying to figure out what’s going on. I was forced to kind of reflect more and look within and all these little thoughts that I didn’t attend to all these little emotions, all of that was just trying to come to me, and it was almost kind of like the devil like lock knocked on the door. And I answered and like I had no choice and I had to face my fear, and then all my emotions and all that stuff. So yeah, I did go through that. But I think that was a good thing that I think that’s the silver lining, because not just me, but I think all of us like we were forced to kind of dive within and kind of like, focus our attention into ourselves and figure out like, you know, just just face those things. Um, so yeah, so I think from that experience, I did get more inspired. And I did pivot eventually, to doing more streaming shows, connecting with my fans more creating, completing lots of songs, collaborating, so yeah, definitely went through a downtime. But I always like to look at those times. It’s like, a time of opportunity where I can grow.

Angela Lin 18:32
You sound like you were very productive.

AZRA 18:39
I had to it was like non stop for me in a different way. But you know, I did I did take a Zen retreat trip to Sedona?

Angela Lin 18:47
Oh were you with Amy, I saw something on her Instagram?

AZRA 18:51
No, but I actually I’m the one that told her. Yes, yes, I’m the one and I remember telling her about all these things. And then literally, like a couple of weeks later, she’s like, I’m going to share the cure all the contact people and things that she’s like, I got you. Then she puts together like an itinerary on her own because Amy’s amazing. She’s also very, like, spiritual centered as fuck. Um, so she Yeah, she went, but it’s a great place to check it out if you haven’t been

Angela Lin 19:24
Yeah, I want to go that’s on my list.

Jesse Lin 19:25
The red rocks. It looks really Oh, yeah.

AZRA 19:28
I’m telling you like there’s this energy. Like I I’m, I was actually just there again. They have this thing called the vortex.

Angela Lin 19:39
Tell us more.

Jesse Lin 19:41
I think I’ve heard of that.

AZRA 19:42
es, yes, you should definitely research about it. But it’s basically there’s different places all over the world where they have like this energy point. I think there’s one like Ohai California is like another place where you can go get centered. It’s just where like, the energy of the universe and like Just the energy, it just, it’s just so calm. And it’s a place where you basically your your emotions and your energy gets amplified. So it’s like, if you go there and you’re like, you know, feeling very sad or emotional, you go there and you just like feel the energy, and it might just amplify that, to bring that out of you. So then you can work through it. And vice versa. Girl I can, I can talk about Sedona all day.

Angela Lin 20:25
Yeah, wait, we were gonna leave this for our closing section because we okay, so our podcast we usually close on when we call the fortune cookie section, right? We leave something kind of like fun as a sweet treat. And I was literally going to talk to you about this, but I feel like we need to talk about it now, which is I got the vibe that you were like very spiritual, and were more of a believer based on your social presence. And then literally everything you just said right now. So I want to like dig into that a little bit more because you’re so your online community or your fans, right? You call them your AZRA deities, right? And talk about the sixth dimension. So can you talk a little bit more about like, how that community came about? And like, what is the sixth dimension mean for you? And how does the spirituality piece play into all that?

AZRA 21:16
Yeah, so the sixth dimension, and you guys actually are already being introduced to the sixth dimension, by the way, so welcome. So the sixth dimension basically is a place, I’ll give you the definition first. It’s basically like a shift in perspective and a place where you have no inhibitions. And it’s a place where you can be completely free to be who you want to be who you are, and just just be you and be super unapologetic about it. It’s a place where you can talk about your opinions, you know, just your dreams and like all of that stuff. And you know, you’re supporting like, you’re kind of one with the energy are connected. So that’s, that’s the sixth dimension. And how I came up with the sixth dimension was, you know, growing up. I mentioned earlier that I was kind of like always doing like artsy stuff. And there were like external circumstances like teachers, older people that really like didn’t agree with my weirdness and my artsiness. So growing up, like, there were Sunday school teachers telling me like, you know, you don’t want to shine, you know, that, why are you standing out too much, there was an art teacher that basically like, didn’t want me to try out different types of art and like, ripped up my papers, like all these, all these little things that were like the people that you looked up to, and like you thought were the authorities, and that you thought you needed to get permission from as a kid. They kind of like, shut me down in a way. So things like that kind of affected, I think, my belief and like, no, gotta stand up for yourself. And I even during those moments, I never let them really get to me, like, deeply. And I think that’s why I am so positive about it. But at the same time growing up like someone else, we’re saying things like, oh, you’re so like, you are from a different place. And you stick out. And there’s a term in Korean called like “yug chawon”. And “yug” mean six in Korean. And then “chawon” means dimension. So I was always told, like, Oh, this where’s Clara? Like, and my Korean name Hyun-Ju? Like send you out? Like, you’re, you’re from the sixth dimension? They would think that so casually, but then, like, it was kind of it wasn’t like a compliment. But at the time, I thought it was a comp. So that I kind of like always talked about it. And then so yeah, and then I think growing up, I always I slowly started to create this, this universe, in my mind, called the sixth dimension. And it’s really helped me and I think, when I was going through some hardships, I know Jesse, you know, you’re in New York right now, we’re talking about New York earlier, like, you know, New York is a place where I was first starting to pursue my dreams and like singing and things like that back in the day, like I woke up one day, and I got diagnosed with juvenile glaucoma. So I was half blind for a couple months. And then I had to get surgery for that. And because of that, I had to, like, stop all my passions, temporarily, because my surgeon told me about, like, if I didn’t stop, like doing all the physical activity to heal, then I will be permanently blind. And that time of my life was very difficult, because I couldn’t do what I wanted to do. But at the same time, I realized how important it is for me to like, stay true to myself and value the relationships and the people that are there to support because I realized, like, when you’re hitting rock bottom, or like a hard place, you know, that’s when you really, really need the support of like others, right? And I learned that during that time. There were people that I thought were there for me. And there were people that I didn’t expect for them to be there for me, but they were. So I realized all these things and those ideas, and those lessons really helped me kind of see the world in a different way, in a way where like, Hey, you know, like, relationships matter a lot, substance matter a lot. And having understanding the mission and knowing your why about what you’re doing means a lot. So all of that kind of like got added to the sixth dimension. And then yeah, and then I started talking about it more and more, and I released the song called Dimension, to share the world and invite the sixth dimension, you know, with my fans, and yeah, that’s kind of how I came about. And now my AZRA deities, they’re all about the sixth dimension. So whenever I do my show, when I’m performing or talking to them, or just, in general, connecting with people, like they’re tapping into the sixth dimension.

Angela Lin 26:02
That’s awesome. So much positivity.

AZRA 26:04
You gotta you gotta

Jesse Lin 26:09
Part of this podcast is really a celebration of us, like Asian Americans, because I think we’re awesome, because we’re the perfect blend of different distinct worlds. And one of the things that we’ve been talking a lot about is how that background really gives us such a strong backbone, backbone, and resiliency in situations like this, where we can float a little bit better than other people. So, you know, it was so great to hear you really say that about yourself, because you kind of revealed like, you took this thing from your childhood that was not really meant as a compliment. And you were able to package it into something that would help you grow and help you cope with difficult situations. So I think this is like, the exact resiliency that I love to hear and see from our guests.

AZRA 27:01
Yeah, definitely. I think it’s important and, and you hit it. I don’t know what that thing is, like, hit it on the nail head that what it’s called..

Angela Lin 27:09
Hit the nail on the head.

Unknown Speaker 27:14
But seriously, I think that like when you said, you know, our culture, like Asian Americans, like we have that perfect blend of resiliency, and, you know, understanding the, the Zen way because in in Asia, like, you know, I went to school there grew up there. And you know, there’s actually a course dedicated from first grade all the way to like, middle school or high school, I’m not sure. But there’s definitely a dedicated course called, etiquette, and manners, and like respect, you know, things like that. And it’s very big. Right? And and I’m not saying that other cultures don’t, obviously, they do. But, you know, we’re talking about Asian Americans here. So we definitely have that as one of the pillars of like, supporting each other and having that respect, and kind of like leading our lives with conviction at the same time, like, collaboration and all of that. So I think it’s important.

Jesse Lin 28:07
I couldn’t agree more

Angela Lin 28:10
Question related to the spirituality piece, because I feel like you’ve you’ve defined it for yourself and like it is very centered on this positivity. But you also talked about like being connected with source energy. I’m just going to ask you out right. Have you done psychedelics?

AZRA 28:30
Oh, my gosh, like shrooms?

Angela Lin 28:32
Yeah. Or like ayahuasca, or..?

AZRA 28:36
No, I really haven’t.

Angela Lin 28:38
I feel like you should.

AZRA 28:42
Have you?

Angela Lin 28:43
Yeah, so we have a whole a whole episode about it. Drugs. Yeah. Because I I connected more with my spirituality after having those psychedelic experiences. So like, not for a party party. I did it for like therapeutic and like turning inward, but I didn’t really understand what it meant to be like all connected to one being and one energy until those experiences so, I would recommend it.

AZRA 29:15
I’ll definitely check out the podcast and yeah, I know like a lot of my friends have done it and like you know, not to party like you said, but like really to like connect, um, and and one thing that I want to try to do and like I always say, like, we’re all forever students, right? Of our minds and our body and this world or whatever. And for me, like, I I’ve met people, like in Sedona and other places who literally can tap in to that place of like that, that that what is that called, like oneness, like what you just said, literally like this after like, 10 breaths, and I was like, wow, they’re not doing it. So like, I kind of want to Learn to do that and figure that out. Like, actually, last week, I did a yoga session at home. And then I did like a 45 minute meditation session. And for the first time, I literally started spinning. Like it was a, it was the most craziest experience, like, I got to like, kind of have this like out of body experience through this meditation, and my entire body felt like it was spinning. And I told my friend and he was like, you maybe were nauseous, because you just did yoga, and you’re dehydrated and you know, you’re just you just think it was a spiritual situation. But I’m like, No, I swear, it was the craziest thing.

Angela Lin 30:42
I think you you probably started reaching that place. Because, well, so my dad, we had my dad on as one of our first guests..

AZRA 30:51
You did shrooms with your dad?!?

Angela Lin 30:52
No, I didn’t. I don’t know, I think tbh I think he’d like it, but..

AZRA 30:58
Can you image like all of our parents, you know, like,

Angela Lin 31:01
I think if you had people who are speaking their language to help them guide through because I think my dad would actually like it. But he would be like, freaked out because he wouldn’t totally get what’s happening. And whoever is guiding him would only be able to speak in English, right? So like, it would just be anyways. But he’s like, very spiritual. And he studied theology as like his masters. And he’s always thinking about Eastern religion and things like that. He meditates for like, two hours every day, and he talks about how, like, you know, Buddhist monks, they meditate everyday to reach enlightenment, right and like, it takes a lot of practice to reach kind of like the space like you were talking about. I don’t think it’s a fluke that you hit that but psychedelics are like for the people that are lazy like me and want like a cheat because it’s like an expressway.

AZRA 31:55
I know, girl, sometimes you got to take the expressway. I’ll definitely think about that.

Angela Lin 32:08
Awesome. Okay. So well, we already kind of like bled into the fortune cookie. So sorry, listeners, we went into that already. But before we end, definitely want to let you plug all the really exciting stuff that you have already come out with. And if there’s anything new that is on the horizon that you want to plug, like, let everyone know.

AZRA 32:29
Yeah, definitely. So I recently released the single called Turn Me On. So check that out. Have a music video out too. And check it out on YouTube. I mean, anybody all the listeners, thanks for tuning in. If you guys want to connect with me, I’m on Instagram and all those social media interwebs. And then, and I’m definitely working on new material and sharing more music and content with everybody. So stay tuned on that.

Jesse Lin 33:01
There were some there was some bops. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I’m down for it.

Angela Lin 33:07
I mean, that Dangerous. that one that one strong. That was good.

Jesse Lin 33:17
Well, thank you again for joining us. And for you listeners, obviously thank you for joining us as well if you have any questions for AZRA or if you have any opinions or thoughts that you want to give us about your experience. If you are in the music industry, feel free to reach out to us and reminder that we’re still looking for listener story submissions, so write us in about whatever experience with this topic you have, or whatever you want at telluswhereyourefrom@gmail.com.

Jesse Lin 0:09
Welcome back to season three of “But where are you really from?”

Full Transcript (Note: Transcribed via AI, may contain errors)

Angela Lin 0:15
Oh my God three, also, we’re on camera. Not everyone can see us. But we’re starting to record on camera for all of our episodes now. So it’s weird.

Jesse Lin 0:27
Yes, you’ll see our recording environments in excruciating detail.

Angela Lin 0:34
Anyways, Happy New Year,

Jesse Lin 0:36
Happy new year are finally in 2021 round that bend looks the same on the other side of the bend for right now. But hopefully soon things will change.

Angela Lin 0:48
I know it’s kind of interesting, because I feel like everyone was just banking on 2021 coming to like save the day, like is life really like gonna be that different?

Jesse Lin 0:59
I mean, I feel like it was the same thing as when Corona first started, where everyone was just like, Oh, we know it’s here. But because nobody’s saying anything. We’re just going to ignore it and go to bars and stuff. I did that.

Angela Lin 1:09
I mean, people will seem hopeful with a vaccine and whatnot. I don’t know.

Jesse Lin 1:14
Yeah, sure. I mean, but like, that’s gonna be like half, like, you know, 50% of the way through the year. And we’ll we’ll see. I like to say that. I think of things as a pessimistic optimist. So, I’m simultaneously hopeful, but I’m not holding my breath.

Angela Lin 1:35
I got it. How are your holidays?

Jesse Lin 1:39
They were really nice, because I took an entire week off between Christmas and New Year’s and the positioning of the holidays was amazing this year, because Chrismas was on a Friday and New Years was on Friday. So I really only take four days off, even though it doesn’t really matter. Because where am I gonna go with the extra vacation days? But if things do resolve you won’t be seeing me in the US for very much.

Angela Lin 2:01
Oh, goodbye.

Jesse Lin 2:03
Yeah, how was your time off?

Angela Lin 2:05
Good. I mean, didn’t do anything exotic, since none of us could. But it was really nice to like, not open my work laptop or my work email and all that stuff. And I was hyper productive, which it’s I feel bittersweet about because I’m like, well, I got a lot of shit done with like a podcast. And I started this like, well, I’ve been doing it for a while. But uh, but like, putting more effort into this illustration thing I’m doing the three rascals find me on Instagram. And like other shit, but basically, I like got a lot done with all my side. hustles but I wasn’t super restful. You know?

Jesse Lin 2:54
Okay, well, Alright, guys, we wanted to kick off this season with a discussion about the death of the city because we both live in cities right now. And I think there were really a lot of amazing things that the city or the urban environment offered us when we were younger, even to mid to late 20s. Sorry, the things that were really great that the cities offered us and still do, but I think with everything that’s happened with the Coronavirus, a lot of people are rethinking whether or not what made urban spaces so great will still exist and whether or not it’s worth it to continue to stay in a city.

Angela Lin 3:42
Yeah. So I think we wanted to kick off this topic by throwing some stats out at you, which we usually never do. But it’s a good way to set things up. Because like Jesse’s saying, I mean, there’s been a huge decline of life in the city, frankly, since Coronavirus, first started. And two big factors or numbers to look at that indicate that are frankly number of people that have left overall and also the number of businesses that are shut down because our economy has been taking a beating ever since COVID. So Jesse, how’s New York doing?

Unknown Speaker 4:22
Yeah. So I think even prior to COVID happening, there was a pretty large exodus of people already kind of occurring, given that New York City has basically gotten more expensive every year since the early 2000s. And you know, Something’s got to give at some point. So there was already a think some amount of people leaving, but according to wrote an article from Reuters between January 1 of 2020, and December 7 of 2020, around 3.5 7 million people left New York City and they got this information based off of cell phone, anonymized cell phone location data, so like people’s cell phones no longer pinging those same towers, they did say that, although there were people that left, obviously, the population is always in a state of flux. So there was almost an equal amount of people coming into the city for the left. Yeah. But the article does say that the people that moved in, were earning lower average incomes during the same period. So like, the whole idea of kind of a sense of economic white flight, where the rich people are like, leaving, and they’re leaving makes things actually a little bit more affordable. Actually, like in Manhattan, the prices have really tanked.

Angela Lin 5:39
Damn, but where do you think the 3 million influx of people is coming from just like people who’ve always wanted to live in New York and now feel like it’s affordable? Or like people who are living in surrounding neighborhoods but work in the city?

Jesse Lin 5:54
That’s a really good question. I don’t really know. But I kind of, I mean, in my mind, the way I think about it is even though economy has shrunk, services has shrunk. And basically, the amount of jobs have shrunk. It’s still the largest pool, like largest concentration of jobs, and easiest like area for people to find jobs, because there are so many businesses still concentrated here. Those that are left in any case, versus like, if you can imagine, you know, you’re out in a more rural part of New York that’s facing the same restrictions, and there’s not as many restaurants or businesses there already, it can be probably even worse, because you really have like these handful of options as your employers, and most of them have to close because they’re non essential.

Angela Lin 6:46
Interesting. I have my own opinion about that for San Francisco. But I’ll withhold until you finish here.

Jesse Lin 6:53
Yeah, sure. Speaking of businesses, there has also been very obviously a huge contraction in businesses, especially in like one of our hugest sectors, which is tourism. So according to the New York Times, more than 2800 businesses in New York City have permanently closed since March 1. And this is also data that they got from Yelp. And this is obviously a huge amount of businesses, I think they said that it’s a higher number than in any other large American city.

Angela Lin 7:24
Well, I can chime in there, too, for San Francisco, because I think the stats are kind of interesting. The I don’t have the same stats as you about the out flow versus influx, like I don’t know how many people have moved to San Francisco since but from Business Insider, as of December 1 89,000, households have left San Francisco. And for frame of reference, San Francisco’s population is somewhere between like eight to 900,000. So if you think a household is I don’t know, if you take an average, like two, two people per household, that’s 170,000 people out of 800, or 900,000 people have left, that’s like a huge percentage of people. And I can just speak anecdotally that it does feel like a ghost town here, like it feels like a lot of people have left. And contrary to what you were saying about New York still being like a valid place for people to want to move to because of the density of like business opportunities there. What’s interesting about San Francisco’s flight is that our whole city is based on tech, like the the reason people want to be here. And the reason the economy grows here is because of all the tech companies and the startups here. And those are the companies that are most able to transfer into remote work. And most of those companies have adapted into, like, you can live not in San Francisco, at the very least you don’t have to live in the city to work for us anymore. And at the like most luxurious like Twitter, they’ve said that forever. You can Yeah, they will never have a mandatory, you know, headquarters where you have to work from anymore. So there’s actually zero reason for anyone to want to move to San Francisco right now, because it’s honestly not that great of a city to be honest, like I’ve never loved it very much. And the main reason to be here was your job. And it’s not that reason anymore. So I don’t know what the number is of people who’ve moved here. But if I had to guess it’s not equivalent to the number of people who’ve left and the business side I think it’s really interesting because you said in New York 2800. I’m looking at your notes, 2800 businesses have closed. And I guess from a scale standpoint, San Francisco is getting crushed much more than New York because New York I don’t know how many businesses but like I live there too. It’s like every, every square foot has a business on it, right? So for 2800 to have closed, sounds like you know, not a few number, but from like a scale wise, it doesn’t sound like a huge percentage versus in San Francisco, much smaller city as of August from the same data set as you so Yelp 2000 businesses have permanently closed and a 5000 have temporarily closed because of COVID. And that’s from August. So that was when there was still hope that, you know, the shutdowns were gonna end sometime soon. So I’m sure way more than 2000 have permanently shut down since then. And it’s just, it’s so tragic. Because we yeah, like I said, we only have 800,000 ish people in the city total. So for 2000 plus businesses to have closed, we’re just getting demolished out here.

Jesse Lin 11:00
Yeah. You know, something you said that was really interesting is that you kind of mentioned that it’s like a ghost town in San Francisco right now. And what’s interesting for me is I don’t go into Manhattan anymore. So I have no idea what Manhattan looks like. But my local, like my immediate neighborhood, it feels more or less about the same, like I feel like, more or less about the same people are moving around at the regular hours of the day, maybe it might be like, you know, later at night, you won’t see as many people as you used to see because you know, subway closes now. But in my immediate neighborhood, mostly everything has stayed the same. And I can back that up with the fact that most, most of the businesses that I have, that I usually patronize have not closed, even though that they’re are restaurants and bars. So I do want to I guess I do want to caveat that is that. I think it is very different neighborhood by neighborhood. And it really depends on the composition of the neighborhood, like if it’s largely transient people, not like homeless people, but like, you know, people who are just there to work for a few years, and then they leave versus Manhattan, which is kind of largely like that. And since Manhattan is also largely offices, it’s pretty easy to see why it would look very different. And perhaps the business shrinkage there is much larger than it is in other areas. Like where I live, which is mostly residential people have lived here for a while like it’s their home. And so it’s a little bit more stable here.

Angela Lin 12:36
What originally drew you to the city, you’ve been there forever, like I left New York in twenty.. oh, wow, 2015? I think? So it’s been a hot second. And obviously, I live in a different city, but it’s not ever going to be the same as New York. What drew you there?

Jesse Lin 12:52
Well, to be honest, lots of television media, probably watching too much Gossip Girl.

Angela Lin 12:58
Oh, yeah. Yes.

Jesse Lin 13:02
And also probably like, partially because you were there for a year and you made it sound really fun and rewarding. The third thing was I really wanted to get away from where I grew up, and really become like a fully independent person. And just kind of like, throw away the person that I was all the way up until I turned 18 in graduate high school and tried to, like upgrade myself into this, like new version of me. So I think that was like originally the reasons why I came. And once I got here, the reasons why I stay. The first thing is like convenience, like New York City is so convenient. Like once you understand how to navigate like subways, buses, and food ordering, you literally like it’s so easy to live here. The second thing, obviously, I think, is nightlife. Like, there are so many amazing venues places, like or we can talk about like large venues like Webster Hall, but they’re also like smaller venues, speakeasies. And these places like exists, like, you know, in every large city, I’m sure there’s businesses like it, but the quantity of businesses here and the fact that it’s like a revolving door, makes it so fun, because like you go to and you might go to a neighborhood, you know, once every few months, you know, because you can’t go to every neighborhood every month, but you go back and it’s like a brand new neighborhood, businesses cleaned out, there was a bar there, there’s now a new bar there. So it was very fun to kind of be living in that always changing environment. And the third thing is that I’m gay and I wanted to be in a place where there are tons of gay people. Like I wanted to, like feel that kind of community and feel comfortable in a place in a sense that nobody cares that you’re gay here. So that’s I think those are like the primary three reasons that I’ve stayed in the city. What about you in San Francisco?

Angela Lin 15:02
That’s easy it’s just my job

Jesse Lin 15:03
You’re like, no…

Angela Lin 15:04
I don’t want to live here.

Jesse Lin 15:08
But, there are like no redeeming factors at all?

Angela Lin 15:11
Well, okay, first I moved here for my job. But also because I had lived outside of California for so many years that I had been like desperately wanting to come back to our home state, I had made the ill informed assumption that San Francisco would be much more similar to Southern California in terms of climate and people and general attitudes, which is not at all the same. So that’s part of why I don’t like it very much. But it was it was the job and being back in the state. So I could be closer to my family. So that’s what brought me here, redeeming factors. I mean, I met Ramon here, at least. Yeah, I feel like everything happens for a reason in life. So even if it’s not my favorite city, like I’ve met, I met him, I’ve met a lot of good friends here. And like, you know, that wouldn’t have happened if I didn’t come here. And like, career wise, it’s, it’s been a good move to be here. But that’s about it. It’s not because I think because in comparison to somewhere like New York, right, like I also, I lived there for seven years. And like you said, it’s it’s, like, incomparable to any other city in terms of like, diversity of people, diversity of cuisine, like access to anything all hours of the day. So, you know, trying to compare that with this city. It’s like, Oh, I mean, it has like above average food, but it’s nothing to write home about. It’s like, oh, there’s diversity. But it’s really like, three or four races. It’s not like every person on the planet like New York. And so it’s just, you know, it would never be able to compete with New York on those factors. So it just doesn’t have that. And I think we’ve talked about this before, but like the homeless population here, and the behavior of that population is so different from the homeless population in New York. So that is something that that’s the number one thing that most people complain about when they come to San Francisco, because we pay a shit ton of taxes in this state and in this city, and you just don’t see any of that money being put to solving this, like, terrible situation out here. I mean, it’s like, you, you feel you feel for the people because it’s very sad, like, the majority of them have mental illness. So it’s kind of different from New York, because I kind of felt like the percentage of people in New York that are homeless have mental illness was a smaller percentage than than other reasons. Like I felt like there were a lot of vets that came back from war and had you know, fallen on bad times, or there’s like, annoying young people that are just like Rastafarian and choose to be homeless that there’s like all sorts of homeless people in New York City, but not all of them had mental illness versus in San Francisco. It’s, it’s the majority here. So like, you can find yourself in pretty dangerous situations out here just crossing paths with people because their heads aren’t right. And that’s not their fault, but it’s just the way it is. So I don’t know how I got on this rant. Actually, I forgot. Oh, just reasons why it would never compare to New York. Yeah, I felt safe, you know, relatively safe around homeless people in New York. And I don’t feel safe in this city. Because that and COVID has made it much worse, because they have full rein of the city now. Like, you know, businesses have closed, we will have left their apartments, they’re just they get to, like claim more of the city now.

Jesse Lin 19:01
Well, let’s talk about, you know, we discussed kind of your draw was work. My draw was a couple of things related to just like quality of life, things where there are things that you’re kind of like, man, it really sucks here. Pre COVID about the city. It could be New York could be SF, whatever.

Angela Lin 19:22
Well, all the things I already talked about. No, I mean, the city is just, it’s just a weird town here. Because it’s like it’s exactly what you said. Like when I came here to visit and then when I came here to move, at first, I had the exact same thought where I was like, it’s just New York, but like on the other coast. And so I was expecting things like quality of food, nightlife, not that I care about nightlife anymore. It’s more just like, you know, just to say that you have this thing.

Jesse Lin 19:57
Yeah, you just want it on hand

Angela Lin 19:59
As an option. Yeah. And you get here and you realize, like everything cost the same as New York, like, quality of life wise, right? Like rent, actually, sometimes it’s more expensive than New York, groceries, food, cocktails, things like that, right? Like, it’s all the exact same as New York. But bars close at like two but everyone goes home at like 11 or midnight, because everyone’s kind of a grandma out here because of runs very like, they like to hike. So everything’s like, go to sleep early and wake up early kind of vibe. So like, here’s when I first moved here, I use this as a gauge. It’s like in New York, when you go to brunch. The average time is like one or 2pm is like, max, you know, peak brunch time. Which makes sense because you’re hungover from the night before. So why would you wake up earlier than that for brunch? Here, people go to brunch as early as 10am.

Jesse Lin 21:02
That’s breakfast. That’s not brunch.

Angela Lin 21:04
That’s just breakfast. There is no, it’s not even crossing over into lunch. Why would you call it brunch?

Jesse Lin 21:10
The time is breakfast.

Angela Lin 21:12
That’s what I’m saying. And, and what’s worse than that, and I do this now myself, people wake up, butt crack early to go to the like most poppin, you know, brunch spots or whatever. Right when they open. So we have one in San Francisco that we live really close to now. It’s called Plow. And it opens at 8am on the weekends, and people are lined up before 8am to go eat at this breakfast place. And I love it. Because Ramon is like, let’s get brunch at 8am and I’m like I’m hungry again.

Jesse Lin 21:53
If you’re not gonna drink, it’s not brunch.

Angela Lin 21:57
Well, some people drink which is like a miracle to me. Yeah, I know. That’s what I’m saying. Wow. Yeah.

Jesse Lin 22:03
I mean, that’s like dedication to the brunch culture, but just at the wrong time.

Angela Lin 22:09
Yeah, yeah. And one more thing, since I’m, apparently on a rant. But one of the things that originally bothered me about here, which I’m just used to at this point, is there’s no diversity of industry. Because I feel like in New York, even though finance is a big industry, it’s not like every single person you meet, works in finance. Like that’s not going to be the case or not everyone is an actor, even though finance and entertainment are big industries in New York, you can find someone doing anything in New York right? Here, it’s just tech. I mean, there are obviously there are people doing other things, but it’s like, eight out of 10 you could easily guess they work in some sort of tech or startup. And it just gets so boring.

Jesse Lin 23:01
Yeah. Yeah, it’s the same person. I definitely know what you’re saying. For sure.

Angela Lin 23:06
How about you? Any drawbacks? Even though you seem to have loved it enough to stay? Your whole adult life at this point?

Jesse Lin 23:13
Yeah. Honestly. I know people think I’m a little bit crazy. I think I’m a little bit crazy. Yeah. Well, I am a little bit crazy. But things that weren’t so great. Even before COVID. Obviously, it’s way too expensive here. And there’s like absolutely no reason it needs to be so expensive. So that’s the first thing. I’m exclusively right now talking about housing, like food, drink groceries, like I kind of get it because like it does cost money to bring all these things here into the city. But for sure, the cost of living in terms of rent is like way too high. I could talk forever and ever and ever and ever and ever about how I am in love with but simultaneously absolutely hate the public transit system here. Like, it is like such a it’s such a hot and cold topic. Because when it works, it’s amazing. And when it doesn’t work, you just want to throw yourself off a bridge like and I will say the third thing is that it’s so disappointing in a way because I feel like New York is constantly on the cusp of being really great, like a really great city. And to be honest, we don’t have really great cities in the US because either they’re not accessible or there’s no nightlife or it’s all the same people like you’re saying, There’s no diversity, like New York has all these things. And it’s like, right there, just about to be like a really awesome city. And it just never gets there because of like, political reasons, incompetence, like all these other things that are just impeding the city becoming it’s like final amazing form of what it could be. And honestly, that’s what is the saddest part about living here is because every day you look you walk outside you experience your life and you’re like, it’s great. But it could be better in in so many ways in so many easy ways, and it’s not. So that’s, I would say, that’s probably like, the biggest letdown. And also, the dating here wasn’t as good as I thought it was gonna be.

Angela Lin 25:14
What about the city in general? Like, where do you think it’s gonna be? Because I am speculating that New York and San Francisco are not going to bounce back from COVID. Like, it’s certainly not going to become a desert wasteland. But like, I don’t think there either of them are going to be as poppin as or as coveted as they used to be. Because it’s just not the same anymore with like, certain businesses leaving and like job opportunities, leaving and profile of people changing. It just I don’t think it’s gonna be the same.

Jesse Lin 25:52
I don’t think so, either. And the stats that I gave at the top of the episode, I mean, it shows that people with money are essentially leaving, right. So from that perspective, like, I think the city will be facing a really huge challenge in terms of tax money to pay for services and things to keep people coming to the city. I think that will be a really big problem for the city in the long run. I don’t know if it’s going to, I don’t know if this city is going to implode the way that people are thinking about it. Because like a lot of people are saying like, Oh, it’s gonna like explode into the way that it was in like the 80s, or the 70s, where things were like really bad and like,

Angela Lin 26:33
Like prostitutes in Times Square?

Jesse Lin 26:35
Yeah, and like the Bronx would like half the Bronx was on fire and stuff like that, like people are saying stuff like that. And I’m like, I don’t think I don’t think that’s the case. Like, that’s like a really Doom ominous scenario. But I do think that there will be some tough times ahead.

Angela Lin 26:52
Yeah. Yeah, I don’t think San Francisco is ever going to be the same, because we are dominated by one industry. And that specific industry has decided that working from this location will no longer matters, like not to say these companies aren’t gonna have San Francisco offices anymore. I think most of them are still keeping an office. But if you’re going to give people the option to work, not in one of the most expensive cities in the world that has little else to offer, besides your occupation, people aren’t going to choose to live here. So and and businesses have left so like, Tesla left, you know, like some of these, like big like you said taxes is is where it’s at, right, like the big tax revenue generating companies are leaving. And it’s not just San Francisco, it’s California. So like, it’s been pretty interesting, because I don’t know if you’ve been following but like, basically California and San Francisco specifically hate tech people, for some reason, like they’re just trying to, like, blame everything on tech people and like, don’t realize that all the money that they need comes largely from this industry that they’re like shitting on And meanwhile, the mayor of Miami is like, hey, tech companies want to move here. Let me like help you move here. And straight up a ton of tech is moving to Miami because Florida is much more liberal with like tax related situations and because the government is welcoming them versus like, antagonizing them. So I just yeah, San Francisco, California. I don’t think we’re ever gonna be the same again.

Jesse Lin 28:29
All righty. Well, Angela, do you want to tell our listeners what we have for our fortune cookie close?

Angela Lin 28:37
We want to daydream for a hot second and maybe it’s not just a daydream maybe it could be our future but so if you could work anywhere in the world and your job did not care, it did not impact your salary or taxing like any of that stuff. Where would you choose to live?

Jesse Lin 28:56
In the ideal situation? I wouldn’t pick any one place I would rotate around like every every month or so

Angela Lin 29:02
Yes, yes! Do you have top top cities though? That you would like start with?

Jesse Lin 29:07
Yeah, I mean, okay, well, I would now this dovetails with my in-a-COVID situation well, but I think I would definitely go to Taipei for a while. I haven’t seen my family there in Taiwan for a long while. I know for sure that there are things that I want to do there that are like on my list that look really fun. And it’s so cheap. It’s so cheap to be there. Like I could roll in there like a heavy hitter like 100%

Angela Lin 29:35
You could live for months there with your one month expenses.

Jesse Lin 29:43
I was just saying no income I could live for months not a problem.

Angela Lin 29:45
Surely Oh, sure. Yeah.

Jesse Lin 29:47
Yes. Well, because that family there but yeah, I think after after Taipei. I think it will be fun to visit like capital cities. So like get a taste of like Japan, in Tokyo, Seoul in South Korea and kind of just work my way all around that area. I mean, there’s so much to see. So

Angela Lin 30:08
What if we did a podcast rotation where we’re just bringing you from Tokyo tonight? And like we just rotate from Asian capitals?

Jesse Lin 30:17
That would be amazing, that would be so amazing. But yeah, I mean, like, honestly, if the job is the largest constraint on where I can be, what about you?

Angela Lin 30:28
For me, it’s interesting, because Ramon, and I actually have been talking about this for a long time, because we are trying to figure out where we want to, like, permanently, you know, settle. We, we similarly would want to live in multiple places, but I don’t think we jump as often as you. So I think, especially because we’re thinking about like the future, right? Like, with kids and stuff that are sometime coming in the future, it would be really nice to be able to spend, you know, like half the year in Spain with his parents and half the year in Taiwan with my parents, and then the grandparents get like, you know, dedicated time with the grandkids and can help raise them and teach them the language and, you know, so those are considerations for sure. And then, yeah, Ramon loves Japan, so I’m sure we’d be in Japan at some point. And like, I loved Australia, so that, yeah, I would probably live in Australia and like, bounced to New Zealand, because Australia is like, the all I could think Well, first, I preferred Melbourne, Melbourne, Melbourne, Melbourne, over Sydney, but Melbourne was essentially, California. Well, okay, sorry, Australia as a whole is basically California as a country with cute accents. That’s how I felt the whole time. But like So Cal California vibes.

Jesse Lin 31:54
Chill.

Angela Lin 31:54
Yes, super chill. Everyone’s gorgeous. The sun’s always out the beach is beautiful, beautiful food is just like, and like it seems expensive to you. So like, I remember going out and being like $16 for an acai bowl. But then I realized it was Australian dollars. I was like, Oh, it’s like $12? That’s fine. Yeah, so we would also hop different places. And hopefully, that’s a very real potential future. Okay. Well, if you have thoughts about this episode, which I’m sure you do, because many of you guys live in some of the biggest cities in this nation, or you once lived in a city. If you have thoughts about the decline of the city, write us in your opinion, or why you’re staying? Or if you could work anywhere ever in the world, where would you live? Let us know. And reminder that we are still looking for listeners story submissions, so write us in about your experience with either this topic or whatever you want at telluswhereyourefrom@gmail.com, the your is y o u r e. And I’m going to make a few more plugs. Because why not? One plug is that there are so many more of you that listen to this podcast then have shown up on our kind of ratings and reviews section on Apple podcasts, if you could do us a huge solid and click that five star rating on Apple podcasts that would help us immensely because as you know, we’re trying to do a lot of shit with this podcast. We’re trying to book bigger guests for you. So it’s more interesting content. We’re trying to expand the listener, base of the podcast, trying to do a lot of cool things. And it’s a better look for us if more of you rep us on that part of our podcast page. So please go ahead and hit five star leave us a positive review. And that’ll go a long way for us. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And yeah, I guess that’s it come back next week because we we actually have a one of our first guests for the season next week and it’s gonna be someone really cool. Until next time.

Jesse Lin 0:19
This week, we’re bringing you the last episode of 2020. And in honor of a year that was so extra, our last episode this season is going to be about how we have also been questionable extra this and doing the most where we can. So that’s really what this last episode is about. It’s about doing the most trying to overachieve, and what are the benefits and consequences. Shall we get into it?

Full Transcript (Note: Transcribed via AI, may contain errors)

Angela Lin 0:55
But basically just being Asian? Always trying to overachieve?

Jesse Lin 1:03
I mean, like last year, going into this year 2019 going into 2020 I was like, 2020 I’m gonna just blow it out of the water. Like, I’m gonna do like, everything over the top everything extra and Miss Rona beat me to the punch. So yeah, it’s been a really interesting and I wanted to talk about this particular issue well not issue, but this particular topic, because I feel like a lot of people are really can not confuse maybe confused, or confused or unsure of like what they should be doing during this time. Because it is a lot of extra time, right? A lot of people if you’re able to work from home, you’re getting the time back, that you would spend commuting or doing other nonsense things that are the process – they’re a part of the process of going to work. But I feel like a lot of people have been struggling with like, what do I do with this time? Because on one hand, you have the time, but on the other hand, everything is such a slog that it just seems so difficult to like, get yourself motivated to do anything, honestly. What about you? Like what are you thinking? And what are you thinking and hearing about 2020 and this feeling with your friend group and stuff?

Angela Lin 2:21
I’m with my friend group. I mean, it’s mixed in my friend group. And I think generally there are a lot of people who feel a lot like what you just described of like, well, we have all this time now but like, I’m bored also I’m lonely and like I don’t know what to do with this. Um, for me I have a like opposite feeling of all this which is I i’m not saying this is a good year. This is like a pretty shitty year all around for everyone, right, like, and our world frankly. But I do feel like those of us who are already lucky enough that like, you know, we didn’t lose our jobs or have anything like significant happen that we didn’t get Coronavirus. We didn’t have anything else, like significant happened to us during this time. I honestly feel like this was a blessing in disguise for people of that group. Because you do suddenly have all this newfound time and like, to be fair, it’s what you make of it. But like, I think I talked about this, a few episodes back, but like, I’ve never been more productive in my life than during quarantine. Because I you can only watch so much Netflix like I started out quarantine like that.

Jesse Lin 3:36
Oh, hold on there.

Angela Lin 3:38
Haven’t you seen the memes that are like they finished watching Netflix at this point. Like you. I feel like I started quarantine being more like that or is like the world of shit. I’m not motivated to do anything. I’m just gonna like binge every Netflix show. And like I started that way. And then after a while I was like, I’m bored frankly, of doing this. And then I like started stump.. – well, it gave me time to like, reflect on my life and like what I wanted to be doing with it and like, where I’m spending my time and like pursuits that I’ve thought about that I didn’t ever try like this podcast we’ve talked about but like this literally started because we had extra time because of quarantine and like look at us now. So there’s that and then like now that I’m in this groove of like hey, why don’t I try this thing? Like I can’t stop trying new things. And I think it’s fun that I’m like hey, what do I have to lose and like what else am I doing literally nothing so like, I’m just going to ignore it so I I didn’t go into 2020 like you thinking like 2020 is my year I’m going to be extra like go all out. I did not think that at all like whatever here’s a new year. So I didn’t have different expectations of the year and then it like came in surprise me with how much I did with it.

I think that’s amazing, honestly, like, I have, I just, I have no idea how you do it to me. Because every day I wake up and I’m just like, I need help, like, call 911, call an ambulance. I need help to get through my day. And honestly, I don’t know, I don’t really know quite what it is like, I don’t know if it’s like, because I am so lonely that like I am so stuck on that feeling that I can’t focus on anything, or if it’s just that like, the cumulative churn of the past few years plus, all of this stuff has just really blocked me. And yeah, I’m just I’m finding it like really hard to do the things that I would normally be interested in doing. Like, I think I did some of the things that you were saying, like, I tried some stuff out, like I did a lot more baking, like I bought a little hand mixer and stuff. Um, I invested a lot more in with invested a lot more in toys for my cat so that I could play with it more. Oh, um, what do they do, I like cleaned up my apartment, like I got like real furniture and like some nice things. But I don’t feel like I was able to channel that energy into anything more substantive, if that makes sense. Like, I feel like the stuff that you’re doing is like very substantive towards like your future and stuff. But like, when I when I tried to like focus on stuff like that and think about it, it’s just like, I’m just like, immediately blank. And I just have no motivation to do it do do anything. And it just, it’s so it’s so weird. And anytime I do I feel like I’m doing anything past that. It’s like the most. So extra. So what do you what do you feel like is your motivation to stay productive, or stay like invested in the things that you are interested in doing?

It’s been nice to like, see what I can create with my own hands. So like, I just posted a picture of my little baby bell peppers that I harvested yesterday and like, it’s so satisfying to know that I grew those from the seed like I literally had a bell pepper. It was like at the beginning of quarantine, I think where I was just like, hey, I got time. I have a porch now like or balcony now. Like, I would just try this shit.

Jesse Lin 7:33
I was like porch hold up.

Angela Lin 7:36
Yeah. And so we we cook all the time. And I was like, hey, bell pepper, let’s just try this shit. I just like threw a bunch of things into a jar with soil. And then now I have three beautiful pepper plants that have each produced bell peppers for me. And I’m like, Oh, you came from Little throw away trash seeds. It’s just beautiful to see. And, and then like, similarly, I think I told you. So. What’s funny is that I used to work at Adobe. But when I worked at Adobe, I did not care about Adobe products. And then like this two weeks ago, or whatever, Adobe had its annual MAX conference, the creative conference. And because quarantine is what it is, they couldn’t do it in person anymore. So they made it virtual, it was all free, which is like a big deal because it was a very coveted. It was like the one thing I would have wanted to go to when I was at Adobe, but it’s like, cost a bunch of money and like they wouldn’t give any employees any headcount. So I never went, but now it was free. And so I like learned a bunch of stuff about how to use like Photoshop and their video editing tools and like, and they just have a bunch of videos like really awesome successful people in the creative field and like showing you how they like, make beautiful art and like videos and stuff. And it was super inspirational. And so I I like just bought everything and I’m like learning how to use all the shit now to make my own stuff and it’s nice. No, it’s it’s like, I like that feeling of like, creating something from nothing and like, learning.

Oh, I think that’s cool. I feel like what what they say like the learning mindset is like the most important thing to have to be like flexible into the future and so that you can be like accommodating for the changing future of work or whatever that may be.

Mm hmm.

I definitely that definitely resonates with me, although I feel like I feel like I struggle to maintain a good habit of learning things that I want to learn. Like I have like a million things favorited in the like Lynda learning section because I LinkedIn premium and I keep it specifically so I have access to the Lynda learning section which has like so many, like really great, like intro videos to like, super topical things. I just feel like after a while, I lose steam. Because like, you have to, like learn, like a good amount of basics for some of this stuff before you can start doing and as soon as soon as I get to this hump, I’m like, I can’t do anything with this yet. I’m like, okay, I’m like, I have that problem where I’m not not seeing the bell peppers sprout. So I’m like, Yeah, I feel like a lot of the stuff that I’ve been like, really into I’m like, it’s it, I really enjoy because I can see the fruits of it quite quickly. So like baking is a really good example. Because baking takes maybe like, three hours. End to end, I get something yummy. I can eat it. And plus, like, one of the parts that I really enjoyed about baking, like over the summer and into like, right now early fall ish, is that I could give it to other people. So it was like my excuse to go to other people’s places for like, you know, an hour or two and just stand on the stoop or like on the roof and chat and be like, here’s some cookies and stuff like that. So.

So I think there’s something to that for sure. Because all the stuff that I do, I’m motivated because I benefit from it. It’s not just like I like create, it is cool to see like something you’ve created from scratch, but like that, in and of itself may not be motivating enough for me, like so I also like Romana, and I cook all the time. And one of the quarantine things we started up was like, I got a bunch of Chinese cookbooks. And like, we’ve been learning those recipes. And like, there’s a direct benefit because like we get to eat delicious, like new dishes and like the plants, all of my plants. I don’t have any plants that are okay, sorry, I have one succulent, but outside of that succulent that gets very little love for me tbh is all my plants are ones that bring benefit to us they’re herbs, or it was like a bell pepper, which we will cook and like things that are beneficial have value to me. And like even this designing stuff like I was motivated by it because I was like, I want to like design cool shit for our podcast, or like, I want to like explore selling random crap on Etsy, like, why not? So there’s like a benefit to it that’s driving my interest in it.

Well, let’s talk about the other side of it, which is like doing nothing. So like, have you found the time where you’re doing nothing to be helpful? Not helpful?

Yeah. I had to talk about this with my therapist. Because especially at the beginning of quarantine, when I was like starting up all these hobbies or avenues that I was exploring, like, it was very overwhelming. And honestly, it hasn’t, like stopped being overwhelming. To be honest, I have like three to do lists that are never ending. Yeah, but I had to talk to my therapist about it. And she was like, you need to know that it’s okay to take breaks, and that it’s actually going to benefit you instead of like, detract because in my mind originally I was like, Well, I have like 30 things on my to do list. And so if I don’t even have enough time to like cross off all those things why am I gonna take like an hour to decompress by watching the new episode of whatever on Netflix, right? Like, how can I justify that? And she’s like, you can’t look at it from like, a time perspective. Yeah. And she’s like, yeah, it’s, it’s, it is an investment in you of like, your mental health, and you deserve to disconnect. And it’ll help you be more productive because you won’t be like so wired up and like stressed out the whole time. So I have I have adopted that mentality. Like, I definitely still feel like my to do list is never ending, but I can sense when my body is getting like fucking exhausted from everything doing because also, we’re in quarantine. But we’re also working right? Like, I I still have my like, full time job. And I’m like, fitting in all these like random things I’m learning and doing outside of those hours. So it’s a lot of stress on my mind. So when I feel like I’m reaching burnout, I will just throw on – shout out to Karen I’ve been watching Sabrina. I’ve been like fuckin rewatching all of Sabrina. I’ve gone from like, season one up until now she’s in college. Like I that’s how much I’m binging. Like it’s just my like, filler decompressing thing. And it’s been helpful. It’s been helpful. Yeah.

Jesse Lin 14:54
That’s awesome. Yeah, I also feel like I need lots of time to like, try to like space, things out. And what I realized is that like, when I don’t make that time, like actually all the stuff that I was thinking about, and like pushing aside during the day, because it’s like, oh, it’s work time, or it’s like time to bake or it’s like, whatever it like comes flooding back in those moments where you take a rest, and it’s just overwhelming. So yeah, I found that like having dedicated rest time, and even just doing the meditation and stuff has been like, super helpful to like, process through the thoughts and like, let them flow and not like jam you up, like at the moment where you’re like, I’m ready to relax. The other thing that I feel like that’s blocking a lot of people from having motivation. And like creating a lot of negativity. And also just feeling like a lot is the fact that we don’t have any more space away from work, like there’s no dedicated space. So you can’t really, like pull yourself out of this situation that you’re in, right, because you like spin out of your chair at the end of the day, you have whatever stress that you just left with and you’re literally like in your apartment. And actually maybe like a week or two ago, like I had come back from like, a brunch with friends. And I was like, I feel so good. literally walked in the door. And I was like, I feel terrible now like, it was just like I I was so it was so clear. Like I was just like I can’t believe I’m back in this like jail.

Angela Lin 16:25
Now I feel you completely though i i think the limited workspace like work versus lifespace bothers me a lot more at the beginning of quarantine. And to be honest, moving helped alot. So we moved into a bigger apartment in the middle of quarantine in the same building. But it was we went from a one bedroom to a two bedroom. So now we have like an office that I can keep separate. Because before I was like, doing all my work from the kitchen table, because, yeah, it was like, What am I going to do is like my bedroom or like the living room essentially. Um, and so that was rough because there was no separation because it would be like, well, when I’m done with work, I just like step away from the kitchen table and like go two steps to the couch. So it felt like the same space versus now with the office. I’m like, okay, I don’t want to be in that office anymore, because I’m clocked out. And then I like exit to a different room or like now we have a balcony. So that’s really nice to like sit out there to like feel like I’m in a different space. And I know that not everyone has the luxury of like having multiple spaces so I’m sorry about that. It definitely has helped me like physically compartmentalize my life.

So why do you think we’re always trying to do the most like, why are we always trying to over achieve.

I feel like a common thread of with being raised Asian is that they our parents held us to very high expectations, right? So like, it kind of felt like you were never doing enough or you could never achieve enough. So like even if you were already like in all the honors classes and like also playing violin and like blah, blah blah. It’s like oh, you got an A minus, like, Why wasn’t this an A and I’m like, uh, just crushed my soul. And so I feel like it’s not that overt that that’s the reason but like that wave being brought up or you’re just like constantly the underdog like you feel like you’re just like never looking up so you have to try harder to like be acknowledged like that has definitely stuck with me and is like driving a lot of the way that I operate for sure.

Yeah, I think I agree. Like although it may not be like smack in the face like clear it is definitely like the undercurrents are there like that’s why I feel that’s why like, we’re even talking about this because I’m like, is it normal that I’m not doing anything like when you’re not doing anything, it feels like you’re moving backwards sometimes. And you have to as you said kind of just be okay sometimes that nothing is happening and nothing is changing. Because that’s the nature of things like not are not always are things like moving forward at lightspeed in like a very focused direction like sometimes you just need to like sit where you are and just chill out for a hot second so that you can get your bearings and then go back on your like lightspeed journey to wherever you’re trying to go. And I feel like that’s part of the challenge and it’s such a weird time because everyone is going through the same thing but like different and I don’t want to say like I definitely hear you that like it’s a an upbringing thing. I feel like other people are going through the same thing but everyone is going through it at like different times. So even your normal like your whole Asian thing where you’re like, hey, what’s this bitch doing? Like, did she get an A plus? You can’t really do that, right? Because I was like looking at the beginning, I was looking at some of the people in like the people that I knew in the city and I was like, oh man, like, people are struggling like a lot. I feel okay. And now I’m like, oh, man, people seem okay, but I’m really struggling. So you’re like trying to do all those things that you’re normally like as your as you said, like you’re trying to like keep moving, you’re trying to like see if you’re still the best or like, at least not the last but like, there’s everything is so fucked up that you have like no bearing whatsoever. So you just I’m just like feeling like a little like, I don’t know where I am anymore.

You know, another reason why I am more motivated to keep a certain momentum going is because of how uncertain things are. Because I think there is like when I was very whatevs in the beginning and like unmotivated by much. I think it is because it was like the initial transition between like, normal life of like hustling, doing all the shit and then going to like, okay, we’re, like, trapped doing nothing. That was like completely unmotivating right? And like, yeah, like, flattened our spirits. But I think it also had that effect on me at that time, because it was like, Oh, this is temporary. This is like a temporary, like, gonna be over. But this sucks. So because it’s so temporary, I’m gonna take this chance to like, binge all my shit. And like, do all these, like unproductive things that I don’t care about that I otherwise wouldn’t have time to do, right? But the unproductive stuff. And now because sad to say, like, there’s no end in sight, there’s no clear end in sight, right? Like there’s we’re constantly going through like different phases of reopening, but then we like close back up, like, there’s just like, it keeps going back and forth. And because of how uncertain that is, I think I honestly just hit a point in quarantine, where I recognize that there is no like, definitive end in sight, so I better fucking adapt. Like, there’s no, there’s no point in like moping around the whole time. Because that could be the rest of your life. Like, it’s not going to be the rest of our lives. But like, we don’t know how long it’s gonna last. Like, I just couldn’t bear to think that I would let like, a, it’s already been a full year, right? Like, almost. So like, a full year, two years. Who knows? Right? Like, just go by because I’m like, waiting for it to come back. Right life to come back. And like, so at that point. I was just like, Okay, I’m gonna do it myself. I’m gonna, like, take advantage of this time to like, better my position in life, hopefully, instead of just sitting around so that I think that was the mindset shift for me is just like, accepting the reality of like, how long the shits gonna last potentially.

Jesse Lin 23:10
I really like that. I mean, the way that you’re talking about it is kind of- it isn’t denying that shit sucks. But rather, you’re like reframing your perspective on what’s happening right now to like, benefit yourself. I think that’s super cool. Yeah. So I guess the last thing I may be talking about related to doing the most and our upbringing is like, the consequences of being like always on and not even just now, just like, even before, when we were like speeding through, like our lives, basically, like, I feel like for the most part, like we’re both fairly above average motivated individuals, and we’re like, trying to, like get to where we’re trying to go like really quick. So, I mean, do you feel like there were like any, any kind of backlash or blowback blowback to doing that?

Angela Lin 24:01
Definitively yes. Like, I think the the like, there are different levels of the consequences. There’s definitely just like little things like stress and like, you know, the pressure that you’re constantly feeling, but I know for sure during consulting that like, it had a literal impact on me, which is like one of my last projects I did before I quit. I was like, so stressed out. I’m working so many hours that I broke out in hives, and I’ve like never had hives in my life. I honestly I just like Google it. I was like, What the fuck is going on with my skin? It was like little bumps all over my face. And I was like, I’ve never seen this my life. I don’t know what this is. And I googled it and I was like, might be hives. I don’t know. I didn’t go to a doctor. So I don’t know for sure. Right. But I was freaking out. Yeah, like what the hell is this? And then literally the day after I gave my big client presentation, they went away. So it was directly related to the stress levels that I was putting on myself for the amount of work and like, pressure that I was putting on myself to deliver so it’s like, there’s a direct consequence for sure it’s not like imagined. It’s like it’s real, you can manifest like, your body will manifest physical issues, because you’re ignoring the mental red flags that have been going off for like, a very long time.

Yeah, I have to I definitely agree with you on that. I, I nowhere gotten to like body explosions, stress, but like, also at my last job, like I was to the point where I was like, going to cry in the office and like, you know, me, I’m like, generally very happy go lucky. Like, I’m not very, I don’t not very sad person. I don’t stay sad very long. So that was like, it was like a turning point. For me. I was like, why am I like this miserable over something this small, this is like, not worth my, like, emotional investment to become so entangled in this that my own personal like mental health is being affected. And the other thing that I’ve come to realize, I’ve always kind of known this, but like, I had a conversation with someone about it recently, which is basically like, when you’re doing the most, you tend to pick up and do things which are like you’re not supposed to do, and like your boss will love that, right? You’re like, Oh my god, you’re doing so much extra work. But then when you leave, shit just falls to pieces, right? Because then you’re basically doing like the work of like three other people. And then like those people who should be doing those, those parts of their role don’t want to do them, because you’re doing it. And then they kind of at the end of it, they expect that they don’t have to do and it causes a lot of problems or like a lot of other people involved. So it’s like this fine balance between like doing what’s yours and stepping a little bit into like an extra place, but not stepping so far that you start to become like this pack mule for everyone else, and they start to load everything on you. And I mean, we’ve discussed this in the past, where it’s like, put your head down and do the work. And I I feel like a lot of that is related to that, where you’re just kind of like, well, I can do it. So I’m going to do it. Um, but that doesn’t always benefit you, as you said in terms of your health, and it doesn’t always benefit the people that you’re working with either.

Yeah, going back to one more thing I talked to my therapist about is the, the like, the importance of acknowledgement, and like, recognition from other people is like very important to me. And it’s, it’s like, oh, god, it’s something that like, when I first came to terms with it, I was like, that sounds shallow as fuck, like, why do I care so much about what other people think. But at the same time, I’m like, I can’t deny that that’s like, important to me. And so the, I had to like, realize that a big reason that I was taking on a lot of other work I don’t need to do is to like get that recognition of, you know, from my bosses or like the boss’s boss and whatever. And like, that’s something I’ve been having to curve back on is like recognizing that that like you’re doing this, because of that this is really not going to benefit you that much like there’s it’s not like you’re suddenly going to like get a raise or like suddenly you’re going to get promoted or anything besides like pat on the back. Like, is this really worth what you’re doing? Or is there like a 50% version of this that you could still be doing that would still you know, like check off the box or like even honestly still be above their expectation, but would kill you way less. It’s something that I’ve had to think about a lot. And I’m like constantly trying to recognize while it’s happening, so I don’t burn out.

That’s good. That’s great learnings. So for the Fortune Cookie, we thought we would end 2020 with a more hopeful outlook for 2021 and discuss what our new year’s resolutions will be. So Angela, what are your resolutions?

Yeah, you know, that’s a hard question because I usually don’t like to make new year’s resolutions. I feel like there’s generally a like the idea route on New Year’s resolution is very temporary. You’re like I want to lose 15 pounds. Like and and then people don’t like meet those resolutions because it’s like a very kind of sometimes a lot of it’s like arbitrary and like it’s like a one time goal. So then like even if you hit that then it’s like okay, I guess that’s over now versus like more lifestyle changes. Those are the ones that I can like get behind. So it’s like I want to learn how to cook or I want to like cook more of the meals and the week like that seems more like a good resolution to me then like, I want to lose 10 pounds because it’s like a permanent change in your life. So in thinking about 2021 I think for me, honestly, I just want to keep sounds so, like, cheesy, but I want to just keep maintaining this like, open mentality that I’ve had of like, okay, exploring the things that I have, like, even the tiniest interest in, like, see where it takes me because I feel like those are things I can’t predict where it’s going to take me on, like the benefit that’s going to come from it and like sit generally saying more yes to things than like killing it before I start. I think that’s a that’s a good place to start for 20 21.

Jesse Lin 29:46
That sounds great.

Angela Lin 30:55
Yeah, how about you?

I thought you were gonna say mine for a second. I was like shit. Mine is kind of similar. I want to take all the good habits I formed in this year and retain them. So like doing this, I want to retain this doing the like meditation practice, I want to retain that on continuing my insane fitness journey. Although hopefully like with less intensity and like broken body parts the into 2021 and also like cooking more at home and eating like healthier and lighter meals.

That’s great. Yeah, I do feel like going back to like, making the most of this trapped time. Right? Like we I think a lot of people have learned something new or like gained something positive from it, even if it’s not under the circumstances you wanted it to happen. So like, I love your resolution because it’s just you know, making it an actual sustained part of your life versus like only quarantine.Okay, well my god 2020 is over y’all. If you have thoughts on doing the most all the time, the burnout that comes from that, or you want to share your New Year’s resolution with us, write us in.

Jesse Lin 0:00
This episode, we wanted to review some of our favorite holiday traditions and share them with you guys since it is the holiday season. And we thought it would be fun to cheer things up with some of our favorite things. So, Angela, what are you most excited about for the holidays?

Full Transcript (Note: Transcribed via AI, may contain errors)

Angela Lin 0:41
Honestly, just the time off. I think my company actually very recently announced that they are giving us four extra days off than usual because they they’re finally recognizing the shit show that 2020 was and like, you know, addressing us as humans and giving us that mental break that we need to recharge. So I’m just like, very excited for that. And I’m probably gonna take a few more of my actual vacation days to like stretch it longer so that it really feels like just shutting off. How about you?

Jesse Lin 1:15
That’s really nice. Yeah, usually I am also looking forward to the holidays, because I can have time off and make travel plans. But obviously, this year with everything that’s happening, like can’t really travel. So I’m not super certain this year, what I’m quite excited about there, like usual things that I really enjoy about the holidays, especially in the city. I feel like there is okay, so the generally there is kind of an emptying out of the city. And this year since so many people have already left from I’m like, quite excited to to be here, where it’s gonna be so empty, but I can hopefully still enjoy all the things that I enjoy about the city during the holidays, which is like the holiday markets, like some festive decorations around the city and hopefully like hot toddies and eggnog somewhere.

Angela Lin 2:11
Yeah, you know what I like I had been trying to get back to California ever since I love California because I was in New York for seven years and then Chicago for two years. And I was like give me back to California and I’m happy to be back in the state. But I definitely miss the season like the seasonal changes of being on the East Coast or the Midwest like in Chicago because I also love the holidays and I love like holiday markets are great. They’re not like my main thing I look forward to I just like, I remember in New York like walking around and like seeing all the decorations go up like the Macy’s decorations on like, the Rockefeller tree. And I love ice skating. I just like I like all the things that are indicative that it’s like holiday time.

Jesse Lin 3:40
Yeah, yeah, no, but that’s exactly it. It’s like the holiday energy. Because let’s be real like, I mean, I like ice skating too, but ice skating’s not really that fun, and like the neighborhood decorations are like not that amazing. And the holiday market is basically the same thing every year. It’s just that like festive energy that comes into the city, which is like really nice. And I really enjoy that.

Angela Lin 4:01
Yeah, it feels warmer, especially in a city like New York where everyone’s kind of like grumpy all the time. It’s it’s like it adds a filter of like warmth and rose colored lenses. What about Christmas?

Jesse Lin 4:21
Christmas, Christmas is very similar to Thanksgiving in many respects for me, because I don’t always go home at Christmas. Yeah, you know, because it’s like, usually because the prices for the flights are really expensive. Everyone’s trying to get home on Christmas. And the thing is that like we I mean, like our my family’s specifically like we don’t really have like holiday traditions. Like back when my grandparents were still alive. I think we would do like a family dinner for Thanksgiving. And then like maybe another family dinner for Christmas. But it wasn’t really that we were celebrating any of those holidays. It was just kind of like a reason like an excuse to get the family together and like eat but since they passed like we haven’t really had any of those like larger family gatherings and my dad’s a vegetarian. So, thanksgiving with centerpiece as turkey is like not appealing. Yeah. And also, I feel like for Christmas, you know, like, there’s just none of those like traditional foods that they would like to have. So like, we don’t really have much of a Christmas tradition. So I don’t really go home around Christmas. Usually, it’s like Thanksgiving where the ragtag group of friends that are still left in the city for the same reasons or they decided to stay or something will like, hang out and go out to like a restaurant or like stay in an order or something and do the same thing where we’re just like, hanging out and chillin. Do you do any like decorating in your apartment?

Angela Lin 5:49
Well, I just bought myself a tiny little pumpkin to feel good about fall.

Jesse Lin 5:54
Like a real one?

Angela Lin 5:55
Yeah, real pumpkin, but one of those like tiny baby ones. You know the ones. Those are two inches tall. They’re so cute. Just to have round, and I like never throw those things away to like, half a year later. Um, I usually love carving pumpkins like legit pumpkins. But I like I have actually consistently hosted carving pumpkins sessions with friends for like many years, but given COVID it’s like not a thing anymore, so I just didn’t do it this year. I don’t think it’s really worth it. Because also, we’re having a heatwave right now.

Jesse Lin 6:41
Yeah, I’m not really much of a decorating person, either. I know that you haven’t seen my apartment fully yet, but like, it took me a while to fully get it to the state. It’s like still not fully finished. But I usually do do something for the holidays. I think I have like a small, not a tinsel tree, but just like a small fake tree. And I have some lights and like some What is that thing called? That’s like tinsel on a string. A streamer.

Angela Lin 7:08
Oh, I see.

Jesse Lin 7:09
Yes, like a streamer for the tree and stuff. So I usually like put that out in like December. And that’s basically my holiday contribution.

Angela Lin 7:20
We bought a tiny fake tree last year, too. So I have like string lights and tiny little I decorate we decorated it like with little like, you know ball ornaments and like the tiny little gingerbread ornaments and whatever. But actually, my family. I don’t know if my mom really does that anymore. But like when I was growing up, at least we had the same tradition every year. So well. First, the decor is just like we have the same 1000s of plastic tree unlike wreaths and same decorations that were a year and the lights on the house and whatever. And we would do that every year. And it felt it felt nice to have like a tradition but it was it took up such a huge space in our attic was just like all this plastic shit that took out once a year. But I love that. Yeah, and your parents are the same thing?

Jesse Lin 8:24
Yeah, I was gonna say I lied. I there is one tradition around Christmas, which is the setup of the tree and the lights, which is really funny because like, I thought it was just something that my parents did when I was around. But I’m still not entirely convinced. It’s not just something that they do when only I’m around. But this one year, I I guess I decided to come home and I like didn’t tell my parents until later. And I came back and like the tree was set up and I was like, oh, you set up a tree. And my mom was like, Yeah, like I just wanted to put it up and I was like, okay, cute. So we usually when I was growing up we would set up at the same thing with you is literally like the tree is like, almost as old as I am maybe like five years younger than me. It’s like been there forever. Same tree. Same streamers. Well, same lights, decorations. The only thing that I would put up that they didn’t that year that I went back was we also have a train.

Angela Lin 9:20
I remember your train.

Jesse Lin 9:22
Yeah, it’s my favorite. It’s my favorite. It’s still I think it still works. It’s still somewhere in the house. And we’re just set it up and we would just run around the tree.

Angela Lin 9:29
Yeah, remember, isn’t your tree kind of big?

Jesse Lin 9:33
It’s like, five foot something

Angela Lin 9:39
Yeah, well I’m five feet tall. So that’s pretty big for me.

Jesse Lin 9:42
Yeah, yeah. It’s like slightly taller than me.

Angela Lin 9:45
Yeah. Yeah, cuz ours. I think my home one was like, three, three feet or something like that. And then our, the one I got was around last year is like a little baby one. It’s only like a foot tall. We called we named it baby Yoda because it was when Mandalorian was out and I was like, that’s cute baby things so.

Jesse Lin 10:06
Look, I mean, if you’re an if you’re an apartment with limited space, I think a tiny tree is cute and valid.

Angela Lin 10:12
Yeah, I really I do love the smell of pine trees though so I really truly debated getting one but it makes me so sad to see the dead pine trees on the side of the street every year I’m like, is it worse to get a plastic one that I’m going to keep for many, many years probably not. So I’m gonna get the plastic one then.

Jesse Lin 10:32
I think part of my holiday traditions in the city that I have done in the past and I don’t know if I’m going to do again this year are seeing the holiday lights in Dyker Heights. So Dyker Heights is like this neighborhood in South Brooklyn. And it’s like a lot of rich Italian people so they live in like mini mcmansions and they go like the whole hog to like decorate their like houses and stuff like that. And every year since I started going it’s just been getting like more crazy because like people started like learning that those were there so I think the last time I went like I saw like a bus of people like they bussed a group of people there and I was like this is too much. And then this year with all the like election nonsense like that area of Brooklyn is also like really conservative. So I’m like a little bit concerned about just walking through there. But normally I would and it’s it’s really lovely like they have like they go the whole hog with the lights. Yeah.

Angela Lin 11:35
Speaking of rich people who go out for Christmas. Have you been to the Balboa like boat parade thing? That shit’s crazy.

Jesse Lin 11:53
I remember seeing it when I forgot what I was doing. I was there one year and I saw it I wasn’t exactly at Christmas. I think they do it for like a whole week.

Angela Lin 12:01
Yeah, yeah, for a couple nights. I’ve only been once and I remember thinking like holy shit. This is wealth disparity. It was so funny because it’s like well so basically Balboa Island The only people who live there like super rich people so you like can walk around the boardwalk essentially but like all along the boardwalk are like these huge beach beautiful beach houses and they of course like decorate those to the nines and it was like you’d be walking on the boardwalk and then all these like really rich fancy people would be out on their front porch with their like firepit and like having beautiful dinner and like with their gate right separating their houses and like the boardwalk And I remember thinking like oh wow we’re the peasants here but on the right of the boat parade because all these people are so rich they have yachts and like other boats and then they decorate the shit out of these boats and do a little parade on the water

Yeah I’m fairly certain these people are like the level rich that they pay don’t decorate they hire people to decorate it.

Oh there’s no way they decorate it themselves.

Jesse Lin 13:15
I mean like a decorate like how do you decorate a boat like that’s impossible? I knew I would need professional help stirring up lights on a boat like that’s how fabulously wealthy people are. Well I think we have wine further holiday that comes after both of these things which is important for us Asian folks – Chinese New Years.

Angela Lin 13:34
Well and regular we got both the New Year in general

Jesse Lin 13:38
I bundle New Year with Christmas.

Angela Lin 13:39
Oh really?

Jesse Lin 13:41
I mean like it’s so close and I usually have the time like I usually will take the time entire time off anyways. And I see the same people basically for Christmas and New Year’s so

Angela Lin 13:54
That’s true there’s nothing hugely different about New Years. My only thing I like I am adamant about every year is seeing the ball drop like it doesn’t feel like it’s significantly the new year unless I make a big deal about it turning tonight

Jesse Lin 14:11
No I agree with you i think it is it’s fun and traditional to watch the ball drop and also fun and traditional to watch the programming around the ball drop because like the years where they had Mariah Carey being super diva like so funny I love it. And then like some years it’s just like really random the guests that they have on and you’re kind of just like wait what’s happening and it’s still like Dick Clark’s like swinging holiday whatever thing even though Dick Clark is like, dead

Angela Lin 14:42
I like when anderson cooper hosts because he has to he breaks his like serious news anchor.

Jesse Lin 15:00
Yeah, I just think it’s funny because when it’s safe for the same reason whenever you watch them you’re like, oh, you’re just you’re like toasted right now. He’s like, drunk

Angela Lin 15:12
Okay, well anyways, to your point Chinese here, alright. I mean, I don’t do anything

Jesse Lin 15:19
Money…

Angela Lin 15:20
You still get money?

Jesse Lin 15:23
No. I think my parents still give me like some pocket change.

Angela Lin 15:34
Oh, that’s nice.

Jesse Lin 15:35
They also like expect me to give them something back.

Angela Lin 15:38
Oh, that defeats the purpose. I mean, they, they stopped giving me money immediately. Like, as soon as they turn 18 I think because there are different rules. Like you could choose which rule to follow. Some people say it’s like, when you turn 18 or like when you get your first job, or other people say it’s like, not until you get married that then the roles reverse. But I remember like, as soon as I turned 18 they’re like, I’m not giving you any more money. And then I was in New York for college. And the only family I have there are cousins, but they’re like, much older than I am. So they have kids. So then I was like, Wait, do I have to give them money? And yeah, I started giving them money. And I was like, oh, man, I’m so poor what’s going on here?

Jesse Lin 16:22
Well, I am glad to say that while I do have cousins with children, I don’t really see them. So yeah. exempt by default.

Angela Lin 16:33
Yeah, well, I yeah, it’s like few and far between the the years that I’ve been able to celebrate with like extended family, but I do like it is something special when it is with like, extended family because then it’s like you go and elaborate like Thanksgiving feels like nothing compared to Chinese New Year when you go out with like, your whole family because then you usually like, go to a really good Chinese restaurant and you just have like 10 courses of food that are non stop. And then yeah, you get the envelopes. And it’s just like, a good time all around. And if nothing else, you’re just like, full and happy.

Jesse Lin 17:17
And a little richer. Yeah, yeah. It’s a full it’s a full shebang. I actually would really love to go back to Taiwan at some point during the new years and like do that with my family I think it would be super fun.

Angela Lin 17:28
I’ve wanted to go for Chinese New Year in Taiwan forever because like we talked about with my dad like it’s a two week celebration. It’s like not just a one day thing on like, in the US for New Year’s. It’s just that night, like, I would love to see what that’s like, because I’ve seen videos of like, that is just like that festive nature that we’re talking about that like the city gets for Christmas is like that for like two weeks in.

Jesse Lin 17:50
And it’s everywhere – it’s the scale of it, I think is what I’m most interested. Yeah. In like a feeling and like experience.

Angela Lin 18:00
Well, maybe we can do it some time together.

Jesse Lin 18:03
Yes, please, when all of this is over.

Angela Lin 18:05
Hopefully Taiwan opens up soon because they they have like no cases.

Jesse Lin 18:12
Oh, it’s I think it’s because they’re close to they have no case totally.

Angela Lin 18:16
But while you got to figure your ish out I have my Taiwanese passport so I can go back whenever I want.

Jesse Lin 18:23
Figuring it out. It’s coming soon. Soon, hopefully. Well, um, yeah, but other things about Chinese New Year that I really enjoyed back when we celebrated as a family. As you mentioned, it was just like a chance to see everybody in my family that’s like in the US again. And I definitely I feel like we talked about this a little bit, but I definitely feel disconnected from my family in many ways, because it’s not like how our parents talk about it. Like we’re not like. We are blood kin but like, I’m not gonna go out of my way to like do something for one of my cousins like I don’t know them that way. So like, New Year’s Chinese New Year’s has always been kind of like a nice way to like reconnect with everybody as a group and just be like, Hey, what’s going on in your life? And for one evening, pretend that we are that kind of like a blood kinship that would be like I will bail you out of jail if you’re in jail like yeah, situation.

Angela Lin 19:23
We don’t really have that. I’m the only like I said the only cousins that I feel closer with are the ones that like are in America because we’ve like literally lived together for a few years and then you know, still saying touch. But I agree with you. I haven’t been I haven’t really done the like, Chinese New Years with with huge extended family beyond especially with like my dad’s family. We’ve never done that. Because usually when we go to Taiwan, we’re with my mom’s family and but the last time that we were with my dad’s side, it was I forget why we’re celebrating. But it was like a whole maybe it was just like a family reunion thing. But like, it was everyone we were in a restaurant and they booked out like four of those huge tables, and they put all the like, quote unquote kids together. It was so funny because my dad is the youngest of of Six, five or six, I always forget that number. But it is. And so we’d like my brother and I are the youngest. And my brother is seven years older than me, right? And so, like these, the cousins, like, half of them have kids and like, yeah, it was just so funny. But but it was kind of a like, we you had to acknowledge that we’re kind of strangers, but then it was nice to like, there was a bond. A slight Yeah, because you’re like, Hey, we are all the kids of like, yeah, the brothers here. So it was nice to get to know them a little bit. And then we all like added each other on Facebook afterwards.

Jesse Lin 20:58
Yeah. I also I like that. Um, well, yeah. Speaking of going back to Asia, I like that kind of when you go back, you’re like a minor celebrity. Oh, yeah. You’re like, oh, you’re from America. So exotic. Like, you must live in like a mini mansion.

Angela Lin 21:17
I mean, no. Okay. Well, that was, that’s fun to transport ourselves mentally to better times that we will not year. Moving into close. Let’s, let’s end on a good another good note, in our Fortune Cookie.W hat’s your favorite or most ridiculous or other standout memory from any holiday? type? activity? Or year?

Jesse Lin 21:56
Okay, so I have one that stands out. But it’s not necessarily like a positive thing. It was just, it’s one that’s like, so ridiculous. I, I look back on it now and I’m like this is really uncomfortable. But when I was 16, we had Christmas dinner at my dad’s oldest brother’s house. And my dad’s oldest brother’s a doctor. And so my aunt is not blood related, right? Not that really matters, but just setting the scene. And so everyone was there, including my oldest cousins. And they were like, you know, talking around the table doing blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, usual, like Asian spiel about stuff. And my grandparents started asking about my oldest oldest cousin, who at that time was like, maybe 32. And they were like, oh, when is he going to get married? Like, is he seeing someone dating someone, blah, blah, blah. And so they were just like, laughing and joking about it. And my aunt was like, Well, you know, he’s still figuring it out. But we’re open to him bringing home whoever, as long as it’s not someone black. And yeah. And I was I was like, I just, like, what do you say in that situation? I was like, this is really uncomfortable. Like, I like nope. And because you’re like, I mean, like, yeah, it’s really uncomfortable. We’re like, amongst families to like, everyone was kind of like, haha, about it, but then I was like, staring at my cousins, because they were like, probably the only people at the table who probably like keyed into that and we’re more uncomfortable about it. Yeah. Because, like, you know, our parents are of a certain age and background and persuasion. So they probably were like, whatever about that comment. But I was just sitting there being like, that is really offensive and uncomfortable thing to say. And that was the last Christmas dinner we had with them.

Angela Lin 23:56
Um, that actually reminds me of I don’t remember if I told you the story, but I mean, you know, we do have to take everything with a grain of salt like like, like exactly what you just said our parents did grow up and like a different generation a different set of norms. And in a country that was homogenous, so like, you know, they’re not as exact of you know, other other people but anyways, but that like old school mentality, this is not holiday related, but just like reminded me immediately of this, which is a few years ago, is before I went to business school, and I had I was having lunch with my parents, my aunt and uncle and my cousin. So and we were talking about like, I don’t know how expensive life is or whatever. And he brought up things about like, you know, everyone needs like a dual income at this point to like support families in modern life. And my dad because he is like super old school in terms of like, man’s role a woman man makes money is like, yeah, any man who can’t support a family on his salary alone is no man at all. And I was like, What? I was super pissed. And we went on this whole tirade because I was, I was like, about to go to business school and because he was essentially saying, like, the woman’s useless, right, like, shouldn’t have to do anything to help support financially, the family and like, and I was about to go to business school and take up, I just took out a six figure loan to go to business school to like, advance my career and whatever. And I was like, Why the fuck am I, you know, like, how can you support me going to business school? If like, in the end, you just want me to pop out kids and like, sit secondary to my husband who’s gonna be like the bankroller of everything right. And I had the same thing as you were, I was like, looking, I was like, staring at my cousin and his wife who were there. And I was also kind of like, looking at my aunt and uncle. And they were so uncomfortable, because you could tell that they were like, they agreed with my dad, because they’re in the same like generation, but they like, didn’t want to say anything, because they could tell I was upset about it. And then I was staring at my cousins, and they were super uncomfortable. And they were just, like, awkwardly laughing about it. And I was like, Oh my God.

Jesse Lin 26:27
That’s just the thing is that like, in those situations, like, you can’t really call the family member out, because like, especially when you’re in a large group of family members in the same age, because then there’ll be like, Oh, she’s stirring the pot, or like, you know, not be respectful or whatever. And first, and second of all, like, they just won’t get it. Like in the moment, there’ll be like, why is this offensive?

Angela Lin 26:49
Well, my cousin, I thought it was pretty obvious why he should be stepping up because he was sitting there with his wife, who’s also like, just as accomplished as he is and like, they’re definitely a dual income family. So I was just like, you guys…

Jesse Lin 27:08
Who’s not a dual income family nowaways…

Angela Lin 27:09
No one! I don’t know. Well, some people some people are but like, it’s really hard to be not a dual income family right now. Anyway, sorry, tirade.

Jesse Lin 27:19
Your – It’s okay. Your most ridiculous or funniest?

Angela Lin 27:25
Yeah. Well, yeah, let’s lighten this mood. Um, one of the Christmas years of Vegas Lin family Christmas, we convinced the same aunt and uncle and those cousins to come. And it was also with so my aunt uncle have two kids, guy and a girl. And it was both of them came no wife for the guy, cousin. But anyways, we were all hanging out. But then like, after dinner, us like kids who are like grown adults. But we’re like, hey, let’s let’s all hang out without like the parents. So we went to I distinctly remember, we went to the Cosmopolitan Hotel. And we were just sitting in the, like, lobby bar. And we all got drinks. And my brother has like, the lowest tolerance of all of us alcoholic tolerance. And so he like, first of all, well, he probably drinks a little bit more now than he did back then. But at that point, he like, didn’t know anything about drinks. So he, first of all asked to like, what’s your signature drink here? And they’re like, probably the Cosmopolitan. And he was like, oh, okay, what’s that, and like that explained it to him. And he, anyways, he got that. And the rest of us got our first drinks. And then he was only like, halfway through, and he was starting to get like, very drunk. And we, the rest of us moved on to our second drink, he was still on his first drink, and he was like, fucking wasted. And he was just saying very ridiculous things. But the funniest part of that night was then we took a cab because it was like pre Uber, or, like pre Uber being like, very prevalent. So we took a regular cab home. And my brother was like, he like fell into the cab and then we made him sit in the front. I don’t remember why, but like, then he was talking like a non stop gabbing to the taxi driver. He said something like, my parents have brought us like, has made have made us come to Vegas every year since I was like, born we just die like all the other you know, my cousins and me in the back. We’re just cackling like what is happening? And yeah, it was the best that one did. They dropped us off home I had to like sober him up because like you’re gonna wake up our parents. It was the funniest thing I was like, dude, one and done here. Like how are you this drunk? I understand tipsy will like He was like a wasted off one drink.

Jesse Lin 30:02
Oh my god. That’s so funny.

Angela Lin 30:04
Yeah, I won’t let it live down the since I was like born.

Jesse Lin 30:09
Gotta bring it back. That’s part of the tradition holiday tradition is bringing back embarrassing moments from prior holiday traditions.

Angela Lin 30:17
I think so. Well the thing was I don’t remember what he was saying. But when he was drunk, he was trying to embarrass me. But it was like he didn’t understand that he was embarrassing myself. Oh, yeah, we’re all like, oh man get him to sleep. That was my favorite

Jesse Lin 30:37
Well, alright guys, we hope you’ve enjoyed this holiday episode. And if you have some special holiday traditions or things you enjoy about the particular holiday season, please let us know write us in.

Angela Lin 30:51
And come back next week for our last episode of this season. We’ll you know we’ll be back but we just needed you know we needed a little break a break to refresh as well. But come back next week. We’ll have one last up to ring in the new year.

Angela Lin 0:19
Today we’re continuing our quest to find Asians doing cool shit. And we have found a really cool Asian named Amy, who’s here to talk about her alternative track well, compared to what Asian parents think we should be doing with our lives. So, Amy, feel free to introduce yourself however you want to. And we’d love if you answer the opening question, “But where are you really from?”

Full Transcript (Note: Transcribed via AI, may contain errors)

Amy 0:45
I am Amy. And I am from LA. I am an actor, slash filmmaker over here. And I’ve been here about seven years now. I was an actor in Hong Kong, and I moved here to pursue better opportunities. And where am I really from? Well, it’s that’s kind of a funny question for me. I mean, it’s hard for me to answer that question. When people ask me that, because I am really from here. I was born in Boston, but then I moved to Hong Kong when I was a teenager, and then I lived there most of my life. So when people ask me that, I do say, oh, I’m from Hong Kong, because I just got here from Hong Kong. Like, not too long ago, but then they say, oh, your English is so good. And I’m like, Well, okay, people speak English in Hong Kong. Also, well, then I kind of go through the whole thing where oh, well, you know, I was born here. And then I moved to Hong Kong and then I met now back. So yeah.

Angela Lin 2:00
Do you have family in Hong Kong? Or what was the driving like, reason for moving to Hong Kong when you were a teen?

Amy 2:06
My dad switched careers. Yeah, he, he was he had a restaurant here, when we were growing up in Connecticut. And then he decided he wanted to get into metals, import/ export. And he just had us all move over to Hong Kong when I was 14.

Angela Lin 2:31
Wow, you know what, we actually have like a somewhat loose connection in that because my dad when I was growing up, my dad had his own business. He had a factory in Shenzhen. So across, the water from Hong Kong, but he was doing like home decor, home accent type manufacturing, and it was like, related to my uncle who’s import export of that kind of stuff. So I feel like within that, like Shenzhen and Hong Kong area, that’s like the big reason people are there to do business.

Amy 3:05
Yeah, it’s very similar. Yeah, very, very similar. My dad actually worked in Guangzhou, and then he would commute back and forth from Hong Kong to Guangzhou. But we of course, as a family, we moved to Hong Kong. I, yeah. And most of my relatives are there. So I wanted at one point, I actually wanted to go back to New York to study. So then I took I went to New York, for my senior year of high school. And that was actually the year 911 happened. Yeah. 911 happened while I was still in Hong Kong. And then I didn’t go back. I took a gap year. And my dad had me go to Beijing to study Mandarin and art over there. Yeah, I was going to study art and design in New York, then I changed course. And, yeah.

Jesse Lin 4:06
Interesting. So you were gonna do some kind of artistic pursuit? Like always.

Amy 4:12
Yeah, it was always been my interest to do something creative. I drew since I was like, I was three. And I was always like, very interested in art. And I was really good at it. But I never actually thought I’d become an actor. When I was a kid, yeah.

Angela Lin 4:33
Let’s talk a little bit about your pursuit of artistic things as you know, viable career path because I think Jesse and I have talked about like, Asian parents often have a thing where like, when you’re a kid, they’re very much like, okay, you’re going to do art, you’re gonna do violin, you’re gonna do piano, you’re gonna do all these things. But then like, that’s really just to like beef up your resume when you’re playing college, but like, you real career better not be one of those things. So unless you’re like a prodigy, so I’m curious, I guess what your parents attitude was towards you saying like, hey, I want to go into something in the fields of art and then you know, eventually acting, but was it because you were a prodigy or is it like they had different attitudes towards that than like the stereotypical Asian parent?

Amy 5:26
Oh, well, you know, I was, it was very half half. My mom, she was always very encouraging of my artistic pursuits ever since I was a kid. And she saw that from when I was very, very young, she saw that, I would just pick up a pencil and I would start drawing and I would, you know, put my own in my playroom, I would have my own art gallery, I would just, like put pictures up and I was so proud to show my parents, you know, hey, look at what I did. And so she did recognize that in me, and so she was, I was very lucky. She, she pushed me in that direction. She helped, you know, foster that. And she had me go to art classes and music classes, like just anything that helped me in that direction. And she herself, she was a singer. So she really understood that. Yeah, and then, but my dad, he was more traditional. And he, he was not so much pushing me into a certain direction, but he really was worried that I wouldn’t make money. So that’s like, the main thing, like, as long as if I made money, and I made big money from it, then that would be okay. But he just didn’t really see that in, like art, the art fields. So he was very hesitant, and he was not that supporting when I said I wanted to become an actor. Yeah, for sure. But um, he did actually put me he encouraged me to go to art school, and do it the right way. So I did end up going to Ching Hua arts university in Beijing. But when I said I wanted to become an actor, he was not only shocked, but he was quite mad because I, I dropped out of art school to become an actor. Hmm. Yeah.

Angela Lin 7:37
What was the inspiration that had you kind of change course? Because it’s related, but it is different?

Amy 7:44
Yeah, it is. It is it is related. And it’s like, I don’t know, I don’t think it’s that different actually. Because it’s, it’s still creating, it’s still from the same kind of creative muscle. except you’re not alone by yourself, creating a room, something like drawing or designing and you’re not interacting with people. Acting is you have to be collaborating with many other people, and you’re out there and you’re, it’s more extroverted, I guess. And you’re essentially a piece of the puzzle, as opposed to, you know, if you’re an artist, like drawing, or you’re, you know, a writer, or like anything that’s like the other arts, you’re kind of essentially working on your own, until you have the product, right, until you have the thing that you’ve completed. I think what happened was, I was watching a lot of movies, when I was in Beijing, there was a lot of like, pirated DVDs. And I just, I just had so much access to like all movies from around the world. And I just spent so much of my time watching movies, instead of like, focusing on, you know, design art and design what I was pursuing at the time, I was just so fascinated with like, how stories could touch and make me feel and how powerful story telling was, you know, and I think one of the reasons I loved art, art and design was I was, I could express myself and I could express stories through that. But with film, TV, film, you know, moving pictures, you’re essentially like expressing a whole story. And I just felt so much when I was watching the actors that, you know, I admired on screen, and I was like, wow, I would love to do that, you know, be able to tell like stories and not be living in my own world. I want to be experiencing other people’s lives, you know?

Jesse Lin 9:58
So like, when did you know that it was the moment where you’re like, actually, I can’t do the school anymore. Like, I need to go pursue this.

Amy 10:05
I don’t think I really had like, a moment, I might have had a series of moments. Um, I was always very introspective. And I was always very, very feeling person. And I use my intuition more than my logic. And it was just that that time, I was very lost. I was in this situation where, okay, I am doing art and design, and I’m going to school for it. But it’s not New York where I really wanted to go. And, you know, I was also like, you know, kind of being a mother at the same time to my my siblings. Because my mom had passed away at that time. And it was just very tumultuous time. And the more I thought about it, the more I was, like, you know, life is short, why don’t I just try what I feel like I want to do. And the thing that made me want to go try that I’ve heard time and time again, in my immediate community was to do Miss Hong Kong, which is like a beauty pageant. And if you do that, that would lead to an acting career. I was like, okay, if I can get in and I can compete. And if I win, then I’ll do it. If I don’t, then I’ll just give it up. And I’ll just go back to my regular path. Yeah.

Angela Lin 11:33
Are we talking to a former Miss Hong Kong?

Amy 11:37
I did not win. But I did get to final five, which was okay. Yeah. And that was, that was long time ago. And, but when people ask me, that’s really what got me in the industry was that.

Angela Lin 11:54
In the past, Jesse and I have talked about media representation, and kind of a lack thereof, especially for Asian Americans on screen. It’s gotten better, but it’s, you know, still a ways to go and certainly when we’re recording up, non non existent pretty much, right, yeah, it sounds like I if I had imagined there was maybe a like, lower hurdle, imaginary hurdle, if you were in Hong Kong, because there’s also Asian actors and everything that is produced there. So maybe it wasn’t as big of a turn as if you’re grown up in the US.

Amy 12:29
Um, it would definitely would have been very different. If I started out here. I always think about what my fellow Asian American actor friends go through, and now I’m in it, so I get it. But starting out, it was a different hurdle for me, I realized my Cantonese is not really up to par to be able to act. And so it was a lot of like, learning lines from pinyin. Just like just writing down phonetic, like English phonetics, and just like memorizing sounds, as opposed to like, actually memorizing what I was saying. But yeah, I think getting in the industry, I wouldn’t say it was that it would be as hard, you know, because I just, I didn’t focus on my race, because everybody’s, everybody’s Chinese over there. So I wasn’t focused on that. And I wasn’t thinking so much about what kind of roles what to get, what kind of roles would I not get? It was open for me, you know, the only the only thing that I guess I struggled with was just to learn my own language, learn just to learn Chinese, but I didn’t have the same struggles, as you know, most Asian American actors have here.

Jesse Lin 13:46
I’m curious to ask a question though. Because you you had been there for a few years, and you were studying in university and something that I get a lot when I move or not move, but when I go back to Asia as people can clock me immediately that I’m like, not local. Oh, yeah. Did you? Are you like, do you go and you go into, like, shoots and stuff, and they’re like, you’re not from around here are you?

Amy 14:06
Yeah, totally. Totally. It’s, it’s a vibe. I mean, I don’t have to open my mouth. And yeah, oh, Can Can I Oh, she’s ABC. It’s just the way I guess, the way I hold myself and the style. I don’t know, there’s a little bit something that’s slightly different.

Jesse Lin 14:24
Je ne sais quoi

Amy 14:27
It’s just kinda, it’s just kinda like, I don’t know, there’s certain gestures that you know, local Hong Kong kids wouldn’t do and I would just, I wouldn’t do those things and they wouldn’t do what I do. And

Jesse Lin 14:40
but that didn’t give you like any advantage or disadvantage as you’ve started your career, right? You’re saying it’s basically like negligible effect.

Amy 14:47
You know, I think it gave a slight advantage because there was this like thing where people were there were really into ABCs at the time. I don’t know at the time like Daniel Wu was coming up and like Maggie Q.

Angela Lin 15:04
I do think there’s a certain like halo effect with ABC when you’re abroad while abroad compare relative to the US, right? But like, Jesse has talked about when he’s there, he feels like he’s a celebrity.

Jesse Lin 15:20
Famous.

Angela Lin 15:21
And I, when I was younger, I was obsessed with Meteor Garden that Taiwanese drama and F4. My loves and my favorite one was Vaness, who is an ABC. Oh, I remember digging into his whole thing. And he had a similar situation with you as like, his Chinese wasn’t that good. So that everyone have to like his scripts, they’d have to like, recite it to him, essentially, for him to memorize it, because he couldn’t read it.

Amy 15:52
Yeah, yeah, I totally remember that era. Actually, you know, Taiwanese stars was really popular in Hong Kong. So I knew all about like all the Taiwanese, like celebs. And no, it was it was it was a fun time, I think.

Angela Lin 16:13
So then you got your start. You got some experience there in Hong Kong? And then when did you decide like, Alright, I’m going back home to the US. And I want to keep pursuing acting and like, what was that transition like?

Amy 16:26
Yeah, I don’t know. I just felt like really stale. I was doing the same things over and over. And I was kind of pigeon holed into some certain roles. And I was just getting really, really bored. I just didn’t like the kind of work I was doing. It was like, mostly soaps. And I was kind of stuck in the TV world. And I always knew that I wanted to go to LA, and I wanted to act in English. But I didn’t have like a plan. Really, it was another tumultuous period of my life. My dad had just passed away. And then for a year, I was just kind of like trying to find myself trying to like, heal. You know, I had a lot of time to think about what I want in life, you know, and what I really want to see myself in 10 years, so I just packed my bags in, like two suitcases and I booked a ticket to LA like a year after I decided and came over here. I didn’t really think about it that much. I’m just that type that’s sort of impulsive. And I don’t really plan too much ahead. I don’t I don’t have I don’t have parents to tell me what to do anymore. You know? Yeah. So it’s kind of like, well, I want to do this. And I never really told my friends and they’re like, Where did you go? I had already. I had already moved over here. And they’re like, what you’re in LA. Um like my relatives, everyone’s like, Where are you coming back? I’m like, I’m not. I moved here. So Wow. Yeah.

Jesse Lin 18:09
That’s amazing. That’s like completely the opposite person that I am. I always look at people who are able to just take that risk and go for it. I’m like, I’m so envious like that, like drive and that like fortitude and you’re kind of just like, I can just land here and it will work.

Amy 18:25
Yeah, I mean, it’s just like one thing leads to another and I was kind of lost when I first got here. It was like a year of figuring things out.

Angela Lin 18:36
How did you end up finding your like community out there.

Amy 18:40
Um, it was one person at a time. It all started from an actor that came to Hong Kong. His name is Byron Mann. You might have seen him in multiple TV shows and stuff. And he’s like a really great actor. He came to Hong Kong, he worked he works like international. He’s like Canada, Hong Kong, here. And he he came to Hong Kong and he was looking for actors to rehearse with for a film he was shooting. I was an actor that was recommended to him to help rehearse. And he met up with me based on this recommendation, and he talked to me. And he was like, huh, you’re Chinese isn’t that good. And so then, like, he couldn’t use me to rehearse with. And he’s like, anything you need. If you’re if you anything you want to, like need help with, if you go to LA or whatever, I can help you. And I was like, Okay, I’ll take your offer. So I called him up. And I was like, Hey, I’m gonna come to LA next month, can you help me out. And so he did. He was like he, he was so generous and he was so just like, he enjoyed when I got to LA. He made me my place I was renting was good. It was in a safe area. He went there before I got there. Yeah. And he made sure that it was safe. And he let me stay at his place for a day or two before I moved in. And he introduced me to like all the friends that he thought I should know. And from there, I just like, made friends. And then from those friends, I made other friends. And then yeah, what happened, I was like, really open, I was really open to meeting new people. I mean, the Asian American community here is awesome. They’re like, they just know you’re new here. And they introduce you to everyone. So I was very grateful for that.

Angela Lin 20:45
Now that you’re here, and you’ve been here many years now in the in the biz now. What is your experience? Like? What the roles that you are able to get in and like now that you’re on the Asian Americans side of the industry are you seeing anything in terms of like, roadblocks or anything that are related to either being a minority or being a woman? Like, anything distinct? That’s different from the Hong Kong times?

Amy 21:17
Oh, yeah, I would say so. The difference is that I had to, I’ve had to think about my race a lot more than ever. I didn’t really think about it. I’ve always just like, when I was in Hong Kong, I was always like, okay, I’m an actor now. Yeah, you know, I’m here, I have to kind of pull back and think, oh, I’m an Asian American actor. What kind of roles are out there for me? It’s it. That was how it was, when I first started here, there are certain boxes that people will put you in, you know, I’ve had people say that I should really, really focus on the smart roles, because that’s what Asian American actors usually get to play, you know, this smart, like, lawyer scientist, yeah, the lawyer, the scientist, everything that, you know, we didn’t want to be right, you know, becoming an artist. Like, it’s suddenly like, kind of like, okay, you look like this. And so, you know, you need to, I don’t know, shape your, the way you look and the way you talk and stuff into that kind of mold. But I was I’ve been very lucky, I’ve been able to collaborate with a lot of people who don’t think that way, and are more like, chose me to be in their projects not based on I’m filling a diversity checkmark. I’ve been in projects where I’m just simply a person and not an Asian American.

Angela Lin 22:58
Isn’t that the dream? To be a person?

Amy 23:02
Yeah, no, it’s, it’s, it’s changing. I mean, I do, you know, there are struggles, but I’ve been seeing a lot more Asian American creators that are creating really awesome things now. And I’m not just talking about the big budget stuff like Crazy Rich Asians, and I’m talking about like, you know, really cool indie stuff. That’s, uh, you know, the, the young Asian American filmmakers are coming out and doing now.

Jesse Lin 23:32
So what’s your feel in terms of like, because we do here and feel kind of like the film and TV industry is changing in that sense that they’re being more accepting of actors in different roles and less typecasting, but I wonder, based off of your experience, do you feel like that’s mostly coming from those like independent projects? Because film is like, more accessible now? Like, it’s easier to get the equipment and you can start out much faster? Like, is growth coming from there? Or is it coming from studios or like a little bit of both?

Amy 24:01
It is coming from both, but I just see, like, there’s just a lot more creators now. Because of the access that we have, you know, whether it’s people putting stuff up on YouTube, or raising money on the different platforms to create their own feature films and going through the festivals. There’s a lot more voices now than ever before. I think it’s because our generation is finally stepping up and telling the stories that we didn’t before. And it starts from the script, it starts from the screenplay. I’ve also noticed that there’s stories that I want to tell and aren’t out there right now. So I’ve been writing and I am very interested in directing now too, because, again, it doesn’t start from trying to be accepted to the table as an actor. It starts from the actual project in the, in the script. And, you know, there are a lot of new, like exciting filmmakers out there right now that are doing really cool things. Justin Chon? He’s a Korean American. I’m not sure if you guys seen his films like Gook, and oh, yeah, there’s like people like him that are starting to create, like, really cool Asian American stories. You know, you know, I was in a film that I shot last year, and now it’s being submitted to festivals. And he, the director is Korean American, and the story is, actually has nothing to do with Asian American identity. It just so happened the lead characters are Asian American. Yeah, yeah. But they’re, we’re not talking about assimilation or like, you know, it’s just we’re being we’re just being people. There’s so many talented Asian American content creators out here. It’s just a matter of time, I think. It’s a matter of time and just like having the balls to put out stories that aren’t safe, you know? Yeah. Like not not doing the same thing over and over. Like, how do we make it so that the white people like it? Like, we’re just telling stories, you know what I mean?

Angela Lin 26:37
Yes. Totally, still big budget studio, but one movie I really liked. That was more like what you’re saying, like, had nothing to do with identity, but just happened to be Asian cast. Searching with John Cho. Oh, yeah. I love that movie. And I was Yeah, okay John Cho, he’s famous people know him. But what’s this? It’s gonna be an Asian thing. And then I watched, like, this has nothing to do with being Asian – awesome.

Amy 27:03
Yeah, I watched that movie, too. It was it was awesome. I watched it at the LA Asian Pacific Film Festival. Cool. And I think it was a centerpiece film.

Angela Lin 27:13
Very cool. All right. So I think we’ll move into our closing, we like to call it the Fortune Cookie because we like to end on a sweet treat. So we thought we’d ask you what is the project that you are most proud of that you’ve done so far in your career?

Amy 27:32
The project that I am most proud of thus far is called Love Shot. And that is a feature film I did about two years ago. And that is now it was on Netflix. Now it’s on Amazon Prime. So if you have Amazon Prime, you can see it there. And I play a K town karaoke hostess that gets saved by the day by a hitman that’s supposed to kill me, but he falls in love with me instead.

Angela Lin 28:07
Oh, love it. Are you most proud because it’s a feature film or is there something you just like really loved about like the people that you worked with on that or what makes that your favorite so far?

Amy 28:18
I just yeah, first of all, I loved all the I love the people. The director was very collaborative. And my co stars was really just awesome people. And his name is Dakota, Loesch. He is for sure a superstar in the making. He just, he’s just so such a good person. And so creative. I had a lot of fun with him. I was just allowed to be a person again. I wasn’t thinking so much about okay, how do I be a Asian American voice in this project?You know, even though that is important to me for certain projects, but I just want to be a person, you know, just like how you and me live every day. You me Jesse? Like, we just people every day, we’re not thinking about we’re not like walking around thinking how do I show my Asian Americannes?

Jesse Lin 29:25
Yeah, I think it’s a you know, from my perspective, it’s a balance like you want people to you want people to treat you as a person and like see you for you beyond those things that are like your ethnic background, but at the same time, like you also, like part of why we’re doing this project is so that we can kind of like rediscover that heritage a little bit and like, honor it without being like, this is the whole thing that we are.

Amy 29:47
Yeah, yeah.

Angela Lin 29:49
I think there’s a little bit also of like, the pushing the Asian American representation piece I feel like that is totally intertwined with though just wanting the end goals to be just we are just normal. Like, it’s because we’re, we’re not totally represented right now. So we have to be a little louder to, like, make sure we’re even in the sphere, right. But like, at the end of the day, we don’t want to be known as like just a loud Asian group, we just want to be a group, you know, just part of it.

Amy 30:20
You know, I think that is also one of the things that I always have in mind is like, I have to be louder than normal, because I’m actually a very quiet person. But when I’m in a room full of people, I always make my voice heard, because I don’t want to have them say, oh, she’s the quiet Asian girl. You know, yeah. Even though my person, like, I’m more introverted, and I don’t like to talk as much. I have been making it a point to speak up and say things like when I think, oh, that’s wrong, or like, what that’s not funny what you just said, you know, about Asians? That’s not funny. Yeah, for sure. And it’s the thing that we have to face, you know, we just kind of have to deal with and, you know, I think the African American community gets somewhere because they speak up, you know, in, in big numbers. And now I feel like more and more Asian Americans in every field. They’re doing that.

Angela Lin 31:27
Awesome. Well, this was fantastic. Having you. Thank you so much for joining us.

Amy 31:31
Ron, thank you so much for having me. It was so fun to talk to you guys.

Jesse Lin 31:36
Awesome guys. Well, we hope you enjoyed this episode. If you have any feedback for us or for Amy or you also work in film and TV and want to just chime in and give us your two cents. Feel free to reach out to us.

Angela Lin 0:19
Today is Thanksgiving, or is it the day? Anyways, it’s Thanksgiving weekend. And we felt like it was an important episode to talk about all the things that we’re grateful for today and this year in general. But before we can even get into the right mindset to be grateful for anything, I think we need to just we owe it to ourselves to bitchfest, a little bit about the shit show that 2020 was.

Full Transcript (Note: Transcribed via AI, may contain errors)

Jesse Lin 0:52
Well, obviously, the biggest thing that ever that’s on everybody’s mind is COVID. As a result of that, and everyone being like, at home and stuff, everything has just gotten like much harder, like working with people, it’s much harder. It’s like, a drag on the soul. Sometimes, I like to just like tried to be patient in your communication and like understanding and all this crap. And I’m like, I don’t have an ounce of patience left for myself, let alone anybody else that I talk to so.

Angela Lin 1:25
I feel like there’s a third two sides to that working from home, like in our personal relationships piece of it, because I kind of feel like, like, would you be less annoyed in the office with these people? Because I feel like there’s some intolerance in general of some dumb behavior across the board, regardless of the format that it’s happening in. Because for me the like, productivity kind of depends on the team. And like the efficiency and communication depends on the team, like my team is pretty good about just like being super transparent about what’s happening, what you need, and like being on top of your shit, but I can see how if you like, don’t trust your team, or they’re not really reliable, and then they are hard to get ahold of, and I guess that would suck.

Jesse Lin 2:16
Yeah, I just mean like in an office, I can normally bitch someone out loudly because they don’t like like some people don’t sit in the office. So I’m like, I could just be like blah blah blah and my commiserate with people.

Angela Lin 2:28
You miss the water cooler stuff. While I’m grateful I’m gonna move into a grateful but we’ll jump back to commiserating, but since we’re on the topic of working I’m grateful for being off camera for the majority of my calls. Since quarantine, I think we like we had a wave where everyone the company the first two months was like, all camera all the time so that we can feel like we were still a community. And then after a while everyone just like one by one every camera off. We’re like, forget this, I want to be my PJs. I don’t want to deal with this. And I’m grateful that that ended up happening because my like side I am like resting bitchface is a lot to handle for a lot of people and like most my co workers don’t know much about it right now. Because they haven’t had to see it. I had it turned on the other day. My co workers screenshot me she was like, Oh, girl, I was like, this is what I look like all the time you just don’t know.

Jesse Lin 3:30
Well, I think that that’s one of the things that I’m talking about. That’s missing because like once you’re away from people at for a while, you’re like mannerisms or idiosyncrasies like what you’re talking about, I would be like, Oh, that’s just Angela being Angela like in real life. But then like after a while, I’m like, are you just like, are you just shitting on me right now? Can’t tell anymore, right? Like, let’s say it was the same thing where you’re just like talking to me to other people. I’m like, wait, like, Are you being sincere here? Are you being like sarcastic? And then I’m like, if you’re being sarcastic it’s very rude.

Angela Lin 4:05
That’s fair. Well, in general, I feel like this pandemic is has fucked with everyone’s like, social abilities. Because we’re like not used to being around humans anymore. Like I can’t really fathom the next like, party I will be going to. There is a bridal shower that I will be going to soon and I don’t know any of the people besides the bride so I’m going to be like extra extra awkward. Plus mask on awkward.

Jesse Lin 5:19
Well, I started trialing out going back to the gym recently. And literally, like the first handshake that I’ve ever given up, like, since this, I made it the gym, and then I was like, sweating about it. Because I went, it was like such an, like, I didn’t know what to do, like, so like, I was sharing something with someone. And we were like, walking away swapping, you know, so I was like, you know, I was doing my thing. And I was like, thank you for being so cool. And like keeping your distance while I’m doing my stuff in swapping. And then the like guy introduced himself and like held hands, shake it. And I was like, I don’t know what to do, like. And then I just like I did it. Because I was like, I don’t want to be like super rude. But then immediately afterwards, I ran over to like, the sanitizing station. But it’s gonna be like that for a while where you’re like, wait, I don’t know if I should like, uh oh. Well, okay, let’s talk about, you know, let’s talk about some of the things that we do appreciate in 2020. Because I think with all of the bad things that have come up, it’s also highlighted a lot of things that are good in our lives that maybe like we just didn’t notice or appreciate because there’s just like so, you know, before there was just so much stuff happening. And it’s really hard to slow down and evaluate your life as it is to try to like pick out the things that are good about it. So I think I will start and say like, this year, I am grateful for the additional time at home that coronavirus has given me because now I’m like I feel more comfortable being by myself and not feeling down that I’m not around other people. And I can spend quality time with Juniper and watching TV and just, you know, doing all the little things that I was doing before. But now, instead of doing it out of like desperation or boredom, I’m actually just kind of like, okay, I’m like enjoying this time by myself doing whatever it is that I’m doing.

Angela Lin 7:34
Yeah, well, extroverts got hit real hard by quarantine, I feel like you’re on the, you’re definitely more on the extraversion side or than introversion side. I feel like for me, I’ve always been more of the like, in the middle. So the ambivert or whatever. But as I’ve gotten older, I’ve gotten more introverted, like, I enjoy being with people and I can bring a lot of energy when I’m with people and like, get a lot of energy from them, but kind of in smaller doses. So like, as I’ve gotten older, I’ve definitely appreciated more like me time. And so with quarantine, I’m like, okay, it’s me time. And it’s been I think I talked a little bit about this the last time but like, I really appreciate the, like, re configuring of what time looks like for me of like, What does 24 hours really give me and like how much can I do that I want to do within that time because I feel like before especially going to work every day and you’re like exhausted from like, you have to like commute to work and then like do the work and then come back and commute agan right? By the time I get home I’m like I just want to like eat and like turn my brain off and just do Netflix or whatever, right like and then go to sleep, that there’s not a lot of time that I put into thinking of like, you know, what are my hours of the day that I can do shit with now that I’m home I can better utilize that time and like use it for shit I want to do like learn new things or like work on this podcast or whatever. And I just feel so much more productive with my time and like more fulfilled with my day because I feel like oh, I got to like check off many things that or like different parts of my life that I wanted to accomplish and like progress a little bit versus feeling like my entire you know, productive block of the day has been utilized for this one thing and I have nothing left.

Jesse Lin 9:47
I completely agree with you there. I mean, I’ve definitely I mean obviously this is like not something that I probably would have liked this podcast is probably not something I probably would have taken on like in a normal, normal work situation because it would have just been mic impossible, as you mentioned, like with the commute, and then like, you already have your own routines and then you’re like locked at work for the specific amount of time you’re supposed to be at work, quote, unquote, it would have been quite difficult. I think the I mean, we’re talking about like, people and scheduling time. I think the other thing that I’ve appreciated more is like, the remaining people that I hang out with, and when I do hang out with them, it’s like, much nicer, but like, I feel more excited because you’re like, your engagements with people are so few and far between that I’m like, oh, my God, I will sit with you, six feet apart outdoors in the rain, and it will be fun. Somehow.

Angela Lin 10:46
I agree. I, I do feel like before and like you still live in New York. But I definitely felt this in New York of like, the FOMO, the constant FOMO, right, where you’re like, I just have to fill every minute of my time doing some things that I don’t feel left out of, like not doing stuff. And that’s definitely decreased for me after moving away from New York. And I went to business school, and then FOMO came again, but like, now, you know, past business school as a adult. After that context, I, that FOMO has not been strong, but I still do feel like I had more things on my social calendar than I like needed to have. Because there’s like a mutual thing amongst the friends of like, I should be seeing people and like, I should be spending time with people, I guess. So I agree with you like now when most of the time is you don’t see people like when you do see someone it does feel like oh, I like very appreciate our friendship I like you have like a deeper conversation. And like, it’s a, it’s just like a more meaningful hangout, usually. And I’ll also add even beyond the like in person stuff. I think we’ve talked about this before, but like, the amount of like facetiming, and zoom calls that everyone’s having to like, check in with friends that maybe you haven’t talked to in a long time. That’s also been something that’s been really cool, too, is like you, these have to be inherently like more meaningful conversations. Because it’s not like you’re like happened to catch up with them at a party where they’re like, 30 other people and like you say, You spent 10 minutes talking to them and passing kind of thing. It’s like I intent, I had intent to like, set up a time to video call you it’s just you and me or like, it’s just us and like a few, you know, small group of people, and there’s nothing to do or distract those what to talk to each other. And so yeah, I think the relationships that are there for sure are much deeper.

Jesse Lin 12:53
Well we talked about COVID. At the beginning of this, I think we at least know the two of us were I’m really grateful that I that nothing has happened in terms of like, I haven’t caught COVID as far as I’m aware. And in general, I still don’t know anyone that has gotten it, which I’m thankful for as well. I think this is a really big one. Because I feel like a lot of like, the idea like stuff around health is always like really taking, like, you take it for granted. Because, you know, for us, we’re kind of young, so we’re like, oh, like it’s gonna be fine. And we’re never gonna have any serious problems. And also, we’re like gainfully employed so we have like insurance and all this stuff. But I feel like when you look at what you’re seeing, for other people, it becomes very clear, like, that’s not the case for everyone. So I’m very thankful for the fact that I am able to stay healthy. And even if I wasn’t that I would be able to, you know, see a doctor and get care and all that.

Angela Lin 13:56
I agree. Yeah. When you compare to people who have suffered, like, really dire consequences from COVID It is very scary to see what the present, like what the potential is of this virus. For me, it’s thinking about our parents, too. That’s like, that was a scary thing to think about. And my parents are actually in Taiwan right now. And that was really scary because I’m like, you have to like take a 13 hour flight international flight and like Taiwan is way safer than it is in the US from like COVID standpoint, but you have to like get there. And luckily they got there and they’re in the quarantine right now. They have to quarantine because they’re the danger. But but then they’ll be safer there but like, yeah, elderly parents, right. It’s like as you get older, you’re like, man, there’s like very little I can do to protect them.

Jesse Lin 14:52
Well, speaking of health and time, I think this time has also given me more of a push to, like, invest in myself self-health from both a mind and body perspective, I just had a conversation with my mom, basically. And she was like, you have to start taking, like, better care of yourself. And you know, your mom always tells you through the years, you’re like, okay, yeah, whatever. Okay, yeah, whatever. And now I’m like, Huh, I’m almost 30. And my foot is in a boot, I think I should take her more seriously this time. She told me that and I was like, I’m can, I can keep pretending that I’m 21. But in reality, I’m not. So. But this time I have I have spent investing in like improving my mental health. So I’ve been like trying to practice at least like, daily or every other day using the Calm meditation app, and trying to use that to like, restructure my thinking and the way that I react to certain situations at like work, or just with other people in general. And I think it has been really helpful because like, before, I felt like I had a really good handle on how I was feeling. Because I was like, okay, I can like very clearly analyze all these things and come to a logical conclusion. But what the practice has taught me basically, is that it’s not about like stuff making sense, it’s about processing the emotion behind it. So it’s like less about thinking and trying to manage the thinking, but more about managing how you feel about it. And so that has been like, super helpful, because a lot of the times I would get, you know, before I would get to a conclusion, like, I shouldn’t be upset, this is stupid. But then I will be like, I’m really fucking upset. So now, like, I kind of get it more where it’s like, I can come to the logical conclusion. And I can try to like pass, let the emotion pass through me. So I also feel better about it, as well.

Angela Lin 17:05
Yeah, I have not been good about the meditation stuff. But what you’ve been talking about does remind me that I have also been investing in my mental health because it’s during quarantine that I called up my old therapist, and I was like, can we restart our sessions? Because I told you previously that like, I stopped seeing her because she moved too far. And it was like, you know, just not logical that I can make the logistically the trip over to her every time. And now that everything has to be video, it’s like, hey, we can do this. This like, is what everyone else has to do if they want to see you. So yeah, I’ve been doing bi weekly sessions with her and and like, also, then when I have like, emotional meltdowns at certain times, I’m like, if I text her, can you please see me tomorrow still like she’ll make it work. So it’s been a really nice, like, rock to have as our sessions. And sometimes I feel like, like, there’s so much that happens during the pandemic that like, usually when I see her there’s something top of mind. But even the like few times where I’m like, do I have anything to talk with her about, like, we find the thing, then you can like go deeper on just like, we all have so many issues or is like that, and we can go deeper on like just the other issues you have in your life and all the like most immediate things screaming at you because something happened the other day. So yeah, that’s been really cool. And to bring it into the woowoo, since we love that space. So she, she uses like, in our talk therapy sessions, like obviously, she like talks me through a lot of the stuff but if I’m feeling like really emotionally overwhelmed by certain things, she will often have me go inward and like there, there is a type of like meditation in our sessions. And I will like visualize things but unprompted so it’s been really cool. I’ve like found I have like a visualization skill, I guess that like comes with my emotions and like processing them. So I’ll be like, really angry or like really sad about something and she’ll be like, let’s close our eyes turn inward, and like, just feel into it. And like, what do you notice? And then it yeah, it’s been like, pretty random. I didn’t know I had this ability, but it’s just like, a lot of the times I do that I like see, see things where I’m like, well, I’m seeing like a, like an eagle like trying to like furiously fly towards a certain thing. It’s like okay, let’s follow this Eagle. like where’s the taking me? What is it trying to do? And like? Yeah, that’s pretty cool. Is this just like a live dream that I’m playing out because you know, it’s is like really related. It’s like a symbolic representation of whatever the fuck I’m trying to work through. Well you touched on this, but another thing I’m grateful for is this this podcast. And like, I’m grateful for the like, the unexpected community that we found with this not just like, there’s a couple different groups of community, right, like we have our listener community, obviously, that it’s made up of like some of our friends that started listening. And then just like random other people who this topic interests them. And like, that’s been really cool to see, like, people we don’t know are like, this is like, exactly my struggle to and this is cool to hear. So that’s a cool community. And then the other is this, like, we’re, I think we mentioned a few times. So we’re in this Asian podcast, network group, on Facebook. And there are a lot of podcasters that are out there. And like, we’ve talked about the lack of media representation of our people. And it’s been really cool to see like, there’s a huge group of Asian Americans, Asian British people, like Asians across the world, essentially, but who are also doing this like podcasting route to get out their stories and like, share other people’s stories. And it’s really cool to like, see that be part of it? And like, learn from each other. So thanks, Jerry Won, if you’re listening, who started that network.

Jesse Lin 21:28
No, no, I I really agree with you. I feel like at the beginning, when I started this, my reference for podcast, I basically listened to two podcasts, I listened to food for thot. And I listened to Nancy. So my reference for podcasts that were like, queer and Asian was just Nancy. And I was like, oh, like, I don’t really know if there is a community of people, as you said, who would be interested in listening to the stuff and what was really cool is, like, what we found, and I think what you’ll find in general is like, when you search for a community, you’ll typically find it. And that’s what was the most surprising thing, as you mentioned, which is that like, we thought we might be putting out something obviously not completely unique, there’s no way, right, but like, without really putting out something that was like relatively niche. And then when we popped into the niche, we were like, oh, wow, there’s like, a lot of people here already, like, doing their business, telling their life experience. And so it was like, really cool to crossover, as you mentioned with a lot of those people and share that experience.

Angela Lin 22:35
Yeah, and I really liked our recent episode with Maggie, for the to celebrate indigenous people say, because I like that, even though this the mission of our podcast started as like, you know, our struggle of the Asian American identities, you know, balancing the two, the premise of our thing is like, but were you really from right? Like what, you know, that general struggle to figure out like, who am I like, what are these different, like battling factors within me that kind of determine who I am. And so I like that there’s, it gives us this ability to also like branch out beyond necessarily the Asian American community to also help shine a light on like other communities stories to, which are also relatable, also, because we are just all human.

Jesse Lin 23:27
Yeah. 100% it’s definitely the case where I feel like in discussing like other people’s paths to finding their identity, like how they figured out their way to their lives and their own experiences. It helps to throw some relief on like your own experience. And whether it’s, you know, something where you can be like, oh, it’s like completely relatable. And like, I see myself in that. Or it’s something and like, complete contrast where you’re like, that’s such a, like, completely interesting thing. And I never thought about this kind of experience like that before. So I think it’s been very valuable – shout out thank you to all of guests who joined us.

Angela Lin 24:08
They’ve all been fantastic and brought totally different viewpoints and experiences and stories. All right. So lots of things to still be grateful for during this unprecedented time that we live in. Let’s travel back in time, a little bit than to us in our childhoods are growing up by you know, being raised by our Asian parents. As we move into the closing section, our Fortune Cookie sweet treat. To tie things back to our podcast theme. We thought it’d be fun to talk about things that we are grateful for that our Asian upbringings taught us.

Jesse Lin 25:01
I’m very grateful for the level of independence, that the kind of pressures I received from my parents and growing up, Asian has impressed upon me. And this has, I mean, obviously, like, this has led me to so many great things and great places. So I can’t say enough like how important this was, to me even though along the way, there were many tears, many breakdowns like, days where I was like, I cannot do this – did I tell you, I, like quote, unquote, ran away from home for like half a day. Because of like, I just I, I, like got a really bad grade on something. And I just freaked out. And I was like, I cannot talk to my parents, I can’t do anything I like ran away to like Barnes and Nobles for like, half day didn’t tell anyone where I was. And I was just sitting there like, reading and reading something. Well, what was your most most grateful thing, growing up Asian?

Angela Lin 26:09
I’m actually most grateful for even though we talk about this dual identity as a really frustrating thing. I’m honestly most grateful for being dual identity, like having these dual identities because I’ve now as an adult, like I have friends who have grown up in the US and like, have never left the US or it’s like, only in the past few years have they like gone to their first country outside of the US. And I feel like because we grew up in these two worlds, and our parents still cared about going back to Taiwan. Like for me, I went back every three years until I was 18. So I like a good amount of exposure to that world. And like, my dad also had a company in China. So we also went to China. And like, being able to see that the world is bigger than the little suburban bubble that we grew up in, in Orange County, like, must have shaped the way that I see the world. Like what’s considered fair, what’s considered like, a good life. And like all these things that I learned early, because I was part of these two worlds as opposed to like people who’ve only grown up here and like haven’t, aren’t well traveled, like don’t know what it’s like outside of the US, it’s like, it’s a different kind of way that you look at life and the things that you are grateful for, unlike the opportunities that you have, and how that relates to everyone else across the planet that don’t have it as good or like you don’t know what you’re missing in terms of like the beauty of like other cultures that you could be embracing, if you like step outside your comfort zone. So I’m grateful for that, like very early introduction into our lives of like, the world is bigger than this little place you’re in right now. So that’s like, made it not as weird to want to like see the rest of the world which I’ve done a lot of, you know, pre COVID So yeah, just a bittersweet but grateful for being dual identity.

Jesse Lin 28:29
Well, obviously since it’s the day after Thanksgiving, we hope everyone had really nice Thanksgiving if you don’t celebrate Thanksgiving, some kind of meal holiday meal. Hopefully you’re staying at home and not fighting people or sweaters or Black Friday.

Angela Lin 28:47
I don’t think this year you can find on the internet. Yeah. Why don’t you email us the things you both hated about 2020 and the things you’re most grateful for this year or anytime we’d love to hear from you and as you know we’re just forever collecting listeners stories for our next listeners episode so just write us in on whatever you want to share. And come back next week because we’ll have a fresh new episode.

Angela Lin 0:18
Today is a special episode. So we like to do once a season we want to make sure that we shine a spotlight on the listener community or the broader you know, Asian American POC community you and let you guys submit stories from your own experiences and give you the spotlight to tell your story and share that with our community. So as a reminder, this is a reflections episode where we reflect on other people’s experiences. So I’ll read you their stories and then we will kind of pepper in our color commentary as we always do.

Full Transcript (Note: Transcribed via AI, may contain errors)

Jesse Lin 1:41
So the first submission is from a listener named Jessica. And it starts like this. Hello, hello, hope your week is off to a great start really digging your podcasts thus far and loving hearing everyone’s stories of how they navigated the in between and their relationships with their parents. I’m sending a story about my childhood growing up, mainly tying it to your podcast themes of mental health and filial piety. It’s a little bit messy and all over the place. But here we go. I guess to preface everything I basically was raised single handedly by my dad, my parents are divorced and my sister went to live with my mom to another country. And growing up I remember wanting to be the perfect daughter so that when I visited my mom and sister or met my friend’s parents, I was representing how great of a parent my dad was. I grew up predominantly in an Asian suburb where other kids my age were also first generation Asian Americans. So a lot of us were taught to keep up appearances of a healthy successful family. In my young mind, being perfect met not being a burden in any capacity. And although I will never was conscious of it, then I came to realize that a lot of it equated to me bottling my emotions and learning to not bother others for emotional support, including my dad. This was my way of helping and silently expressing thanks for the sacrifices he’s made coming to America and trying to provide a better life for me. Let’s talk a bit about my dad. My dad’s pretty in line with the description your typical Asian father, he believed in the American dream, rarely showed his emotions and wasn’t the best at holding conversations that went beyond the topics of school and money. I remember whenever I missed my mom and sister and cried in front of him, he told me something along the lines of “Don’t cry, you have to be strong. It’s not good to cry.” My dad had grown up poor and to get to where he is today his mindset was, what else can I do? Crying will not change my situation. I have to be strong to help the rest of my family. No one else can help me but me. Looking back, I think that because he didn’t have anyone to rely on when he was younger. He was basically supporting his family back in China as the eldest son, him telling me to essentially suck it up was the only thing he knew how to do. In many ways, my childhood mirrors a lot of the themes Asian Americans face growing up, keeping up appearances of being a model family, the communication barrier between generations, especially language and culture, and especially the hustle to make it in America as well. And especially for young men learning to hold back your emotions. But one thing I wanted to bring up and highlight through my story is that as I grew older and pushed myself to have important conversations with my dad about mental health, and emotional well being, E.G. confronting my true feelings about how the divorce impacted me, and how lonely I felt growing up, I noticed that over the years, my dad’s mindset has gradually changed as well. He is more understanding about letting emotions out and often tells me to make sure that I am physically, emotionally and mentally healthy on our phone calls. In part I think this has to do with how mental health has become less of a taboo topic in both United States as well as in parts of Asia. But I also think this mindset shift comes from my dad experiencing the empty nest syndrome and allowing himself to be more expressive which seems to be familiar to what my other Asian American friends have experienced when talking to their parents about mental health and young adult worries. excited for your next episode, keep it up, Jessica.

Angela Lin 5:11
There’s so much to unpack. Oh, God, um, well, can we talk about the like, since she ended on this softening up of this, like hard exterior parents when you grow up, I can totally vibe with that because my dad, well, both my parents, like, I feel like the way that Asian parents raised you is like, very strict. And also very, like, what Jessica was saying, like, no emotion, like, stuck it up, you know, keep a hard exterior, keep up appearances kind of thing. And so I always was kind of scared of my parents growing up, honestly, because they didn’t show that kind of affection. And then now that I’m an adult, and we like don’t live near each other, and they like, don’t have much else to do. They’re retired, you know, so they’re just, like, worried about me all the time. And then when we do talk, it is much softer. And it’s like, how are you? Like, are you sure you’re okay? That kind of stuff. And it’s just like a, they’re like different parents when they’re older.

Jesse Lin 6:11
Yeah, I think part of it is just like, when you’re getting older, you get a little bit softer around a lot of things. And personally, like, the way that I see it is that I feel like our parents came to this country to have a good time of it. And they quickly found that it was not going to be like quick, easy, good money times. And I feel like that that can really harden a lot of people to be like, oh no like to impart to my children. Like it’s, you know, it’s a lot of work. It’s really hard. And I think there’s a little bit of an overcorrection because obviously, it’s very hard for them because they just immigrated here. But for us, we were born here. So it’s a much smoother process. And at the end of the day, I think all my parents really needed to soften up was to understand that, like, I could take care of myself, I could have a successful successful career. I could have like a loving partner and the like, once they realized that I could find these things for myself and like I was independent enough to seek these things for myself. They really like let the foot off the pedal really, because I think they were really just pushing so hard to make sure that I could set myself up with all these things. feeling like they themselves didn’t quite get all that you know,

Angela Lin 7:24
Even your dad, your dad has softened?

Jesse Lin 7:26
You know, you know, let’s say soften is a relative term. It’s like less less judgmental, like definitely more like conversational. There’s there’s still some like advice giving where I’m like this is not merited, but..

Angela Lin 7:45
A few fewer prickles then

Jesse Lin 7:49
Less prickly

Angela Lin 7:51
Oh, Daddy Lin. Another thing she said that really stuck with me is like, she felt the responsibility to like, play her part in keeping up appearances for her dad. And one thing she didn’t explicitly say, but I could I inferred a little bit is like, because she’s talking about keeping up appearances, aka saving face, right? And like, divorce is pretty taboo in traditional Asian culture, right? So I feel like, even though she didn’t say it, I could imagine she probably felt this like, already, she and her dad were at a disadvantage in terms of like, the social circles, because they probably were like, you know, quote, unquote, tainted already because they were not like, nuclear, typical nuclear family. But then she had to, like, keep everything else as like normal and like, excellent as possible, so that there weren’t further points against her and her dad.

Jesse Lin 8:55
Yeah, I definitely feel that way as well. I mean, divorce is hard no matter what. And I feel like, even now, it’s like a pretty, I don’t want to say it’s a taboo subject, but there’s like a lot of negative connotations associated with it, as opposed to just like, you know, we don’t vibe together anymore. And we don’t want to spend our life together anymore, which is what it means to me. And I remember like, I had friends who, whose parents were divorced, and if they were treated a little differently in conversations, because there was always like, either kind of like, unwanted sympathy or like, kind of like, oh, like what happened? Like there’s a lot of speculation around the personal life. And I think that that can be very intrusive and additional pressure as well. Yeah.

Angela Lin 9:39
Yeah. All right. Well, great story. Jessica. Thanks for writing in appreciate you sharing an intimate I’m sure your memory from your past. So hopefully it helps other people as well.

Jesse Lin 9:53
Thank you.

Angela Lin 9:54
All right. Okay, so moving on to story number two. This one is from DJ and it’s titled, “Immigration Story: Midwest Edition”. When I tell people that I’m from Ohio, the first thing they ask is either why or how. before I was born, my mom was selected to participate in an AFS program. I’m going to pretend like I know what that is. For exchange teachers. She taught English at her school in Xinjiang and was placed in the small town of I don’t even know how to pronounce this and this is English, Berea, Ohio, for her exchange her go. After her semester in the US, she went back to China where I was born. A few years later, my parents told me that they like many immigrant parents here plan to immigrate to the US to provide better opportunities for me. The Chinese educational system was crushing and grueling, squashing many opportunities for children to develop a well rounded interests and skills beyond rote memorization of equations, facts, poetry, etc. Since my mom already had a taste of the quote unquote, American Dream during her exchange program, they decided to pursue that dream full time. When I was about five years old, my mom again set off on her own for the US back to Ohio, the only US that she knew – very different US then we know – at the time, the journey to close to three days of travel. First a bus or train from Altay to Urumqi, second a flight from Urumqi to Beijing, and third flight from Beijing to a large East Coast City, fourth a flight from that city to the final destination in Cleveland, Ohio. Wow. All right. She was able to secure a job at a local university and soon began making plans to bring my dad and I over. Oh shit. She did this herself. I was like imagining that this was like with the fam for like, all together. All right, good job mom. I’ll skip the logistics here. But it took over 10 months of visa applications, written testimonials from coworkers, friends, etc. And many dollars spent on immigration lawyers for my dad and I to finally receive the necessary paperwork to come visit her in the US. 10 months is a lifetime for a five year old. There’s so much that I can share about my first impressions after getting off the plane in Cleveland and seeing my mom again, but I guess I’ll stick to my first year in elementary school. My first day of first grade was a blur but I remember that I was wearing a qi-pao house style stylized outfit so cute, right? Yeah, my mom packed me dumplings and a thermos for lunch and my teachers name was Mrs. Sepper. That sounds like a first grade teacher’s name. In my first few weeks at school, I would take home many many notes from Mrs. Sepper – topics ranging from DJ did not hear lunch today to a student was staring a DJ so she started yelling at him and running after him. There was even an episode where I kicked it boys square between the legs for tauntingly calling me Chinese girl while pointing and laughing. I think there was a note home about that too, maybe even a visit to the principal. But to be honest, I don’t think I was that fazed given that I had no idea what anyone was saying. So from my point of view, it was just a bunch of foreign looking adults gesticulating wildly and trying to communicate with me in their jibberish language. Retrospectively, both my mom and I are quite pleased that I stood up for myself instead of withdrawing in fear or shame for being different. Apparently, I was very much not a model minority at a young age. You go girl

Jesse Lin 14:05
Four for you Glenn Coco.

Angela Lin 14:06
Yes. All right. I did not doubt that I was the first Asian person that they’ve ever interacted with in real life. Yeah, Ohio.

Jesse Lin 14:15
Berea, Ohio,

Angela Lin 14:17
Wherever that is, yeah. I was as interesting to them as an alien I suppose. For me, they were strange little kids and school was a strange place where we played way more than we learned. I mean, how can these six year old still not know their times tables or how to tie their own shoes. Also, why are the teachers praising that child’s artwork of what is supposed to be a horse looks like a huge blob of nothing. I think growing up as a virtually the only Asian within a 30 mile radius has given me a different perspective from the coastal Asian communities. Rarely did my family and I have the opportunity to celebrate our culture with a like minded community has been hard. For my dad it was particularly lonely and isolating since he was a doctor in China and needed to be relicensed in the US to practice coming from a base of zero English to passing highly technical medical certification tests in a second language. He remains a huge inspiration to me, also, my mom, her tenacity and sheer guts to leave everything she’s ever known to strike out in a foreign country with no community around to support her. I have no words. For many years, we lived on a single income as my dad learned the language to pass his certifications. Wow. But my parents never once made me feel like we lacked anything. In contrast, my childhood was full of joy and a wealth of love and happiness. This is kind of everywhere. And there’s a lot more that I don’t really know how to write down but hope this is helpful, DJ.

Jesse Lin 15:53
Wow. Well, first of all, just like super huge hats off to DJs parents for doing that. I mean, like all of our parents did this, but like to be the first person to come over to bring other people over. I know that that’s like a really, really full of pressure and difficult situation so really hats off to your two DJs. Parents. I also want to point out that like, it is very difficult to bring your family here and immigrate here, even back then when there was a large wave of immigration like, so I think that a lot of people aren’t thinking about actually, you know, when you hear about immigration stories, how difficult it is to actually become naturalized as a citizen of the US, even if you have the right skills to make it here. Apparently, obviously, your parents did, because they came over re-learned their skills, and now they’re in their professions.

Angela Lin 16:49
Yeah, there are so many things in this one. It’s like, well, first of all, like you said, I’m so like, impressed with her parents, but very much her mom because like all of our parents did it. But a lot of them did it together like they came over together. Or it was like our dads and I’m not saying it’s like easier for men, obviously, it’s always gonna be lonely, no matter what if you’re like the one person coming over to a foreign country, but like, it’s very rare for a woman to be the one who has to like lead her family to a foreign place like you go, Mrs. DJ’s mom. And the other thing is like Jesus Christ, her dad relearning a medical degree in a language he didn’t know until he arrived, like that is so insane. Because actually, I remember when I lived in New York, you know, like all the taxi drivers and now there’s Uber drivers that were as well. So like, they also have their stories, but I remember I’ve been in many taxis, where like it would be someone who immigrated to the US and they would tell me stories about how they were like, doctors and like lawyers, really insane professions, you know, from their home countries, and they’re like, now I drive a taxi because my degree is invalid here. And it’s like too hard for me to really learn that whole thing right now and make a living, you know, and it’s just like, it’s so sad. So it’s, I’m very like, in awe of her dad and also in awe of her mom once again for like having enough drive to be able to financially support their family while her dad was taking the like unpaid time he needed to relearn that profession. Hmm, pretty crazy.

Jesse Lin 18:34
Yeah. And I just want to close I think that we’re like the most awesome people ever. Because like, look like where people brought from the both of best worlds, right? We have as DJ mentioned, there’s the escape from the more traditional educational system which is rote memorization, equations, facts, poetry. Girl, we got that, you know we do.

Angela Lin 18:54
That’s true.

Jesse Lin 18:55
We also went to school here, we did. extracurriculars, we did music, we did all these other things. So I support us because I think we’re like the best of both worlds, including all of our listeners. Yeah.

Angela Lin 19:08
Holla.

Jesse Lin 19:09
So our last story comes from Annie. And here we go. In terms of heritage, immediate representation, I recently read an amazing article from Eater about how this now normalized and commodified phenomenon of the global pantry and specifically about how ethnic foods become trendy when presented in a palatable Western lens. The article referenced is called Alison Roman bon appetit and the global pantry problem. This article articulated a lot of my feelings on the topic because I’m particularly interested in the important role of food in Asian cultures as a ceremony and celebration of our heritage and how its intimately tied to identity for a lot of us. It spurred me to do a minor in food systems in college. Interesting. Seeing more diverse food representation nowadays is great, but there’s a part of me that’s definitely salty about getting taunted by my peers and elementary school for bringing the stinky food or the wigglies squishy mash of noodles while other kids had uncrustables. I’ve been grappling with this concept of how cultural things can only be spotlighted in the right way that’s approachable when it’s from a white person preaching to a white audience. Like maybe it’s too intimidating coming from the actual source. And another aspect is how certain items like matcha or tumeric, or goji berries get picked out of their respective cultures and labeled as cool. I also felt some type of way when I was drinking kombucha for months before realizing it actually comes from ancient China. I felt so bamboozled that I had been a consumer for all that time without knowing. So I asked my family their thoughts on it, and my grandmother said, they brew it in buckets, and drank it as kids. But it wasn’t at all revered. It was pretty commonplace in our experience, they didn’t believe me that it had become so mainstream in the US and cost so much, until I pointed out the entire refrigerated shelf dedicated to “booch” at Whole Foods to true. And I think I wanted to really feel proud and connected to my culture when I brew at home now, but I know that in actuality, I only ever got into it because of its rise in the Western world, that it’s been decoupled from its roots, I don’t think that I really would have found out about it otherwise. And it’s sad that I’ve never seen branding from the big “booch” companies tying back to its original origins. And in terms of representation, just thinking on who popularizes and profits from so many, quote, unquote, authentic restaurants and gets praised for bringing new cuisines to light. The last thing is that I just don’t necessarily see a solution to it. At the end of the day, I still feel appreciative that people are more interested in and open now to global cuisines. And I think that’s progress. But as a starting point, I’d like to see those in positions of power with the platform do better. Educate themselves on cultural context and if they’re profiting off of the commodification of other cultures, they should have responsibility to support and uplift the communities along the way. And I want to be able to access resources to support and uplift fellow POC who are chefs or bloggers are running small businesses. Sorry, this is becoming just a rant. So I hope that was comprehensible at least. But I wouldn’t be offended if it doesn’t make the cut lol – but you made it.

Angela Lin 20:50
As someone we’ve talked about this a lot, but like as someone who didn’t want to own her identity, her like Asian identity until older now I’m like, trying to reconnect with it. And a lot a big part, like I’ve talked about is through food and like learning how to cook a lot of like traditional Chinese and Taiwanese dishes. And I don’t know how to feel about like, my favorite cookbook that I use right now is written by a white woman. And she but she trained and has lived in China for over 20 years. So she was like, probably more Chinese than I am. You know, I mean, so like, there’s a part of me that’s like, oh, I’m connecting with my roots. And then the other part of me is like, yeah, but I’m only able to connect with it because this white woman has written this book that I can read and like, easily emulate as opposed to like, if I had asked my mom back in the day, she would have pointed me to like, Chinese recipes in Chinese. And I’d be like, I don’t know what this is you I mean, so there’s like, yeah, I feel that gratitude and a little bit of like, he unease that it has to be through this like Western lens.

Jesse Lin 23:30
Yeah, it’s more approachable that its westernized. But I mean, like, in a sense, there’s no way around it because like, we would never be able to read a Chinese cookbook. And when you said that I was like, I remember that just triggered like a memory from like, forever ago, or my mom, I think was cooking from a Chinese cookbook. And it was like, you know, if you go to like one of those rinky dink Chinese takeout places in New York or wherever, and they have those like, neon backlit pictures of that food. It was like that in a cookbook. And it’s just yeah, so I’m like, as authentic as that probably was, it was not accessible for us. Yeah. And so there definitely is this kind of like tension of like, people who may not be people of color, taking a shine to something becoming like an expert at it, and then making it more accessible to everyone, including people of color who may not be super connected to their roots.

Angela Lin 24:28
Yeah, and, you know, I am like caveating the shit out of everything but like, I do agree with that. Like, I think there’s a lot of benefit to people like Fuchsia something as the one who wrote the cookbook that I that I follow and I’m very grateful to her for giving me access to my culture, even though she is not Chinese. But then there’s the other half of it were like to what Annie saying, like people profiting off these like very deeply rooted cultural food items or like traditional cuisines or whatever that like, they don’t even really know where it came from. One of the things she mentioned that like really did bother me when it first became popular was like goji berries thing, because I don’t know if you remember when we were kids, goji berries is in every single Chinese medicinal soup. Oh yeah. And yeah, I would dread my mom dropping that shit and Well, it wasn’t the goji berries specifically It was like, it would be mixed with like a bunch of other medicinal properties, right? And be like bitter and always when I’m like sick or like she’s trying to like, make me taller or like whatever, right? And so like when goji berries came out, and we’re like, here’s this new superfood, like add it to your smoothies. I was like, are you fucking kidding? Like, you don’t even know that this like has like, Chinese medicine has been around for 1000s of years. And yeah, goji berries is a staple. And I’m like, you don’t even know where this came from. And you’re just adding it to your like superfood smoothie. And that that did bother me when that kind of thing came out.

Jesse Lin 26:00
Yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s really hard. I feel like the opposite can be done as well. And I actually saw it recently I got targeted with a hard seltzer ad called I think was called lunar seltzer. And it is basically like a White Claw. But it just has Asian flavors. And the whole shtick was like Asian flavors for Asian people. And I was like snap. It’s like reverse happening we’re taking white people stuff, and we’re slapping some Asian flavors on it. And we’re saying it’s for asian people.

Angela Lin 26:31
That’s true, man. I guess that’s true, because Asians gotta hustle, man. And we like find a way to profit on whatever we can figure out how to profit on. And I do remember talking with my dad about like, how does he feel about you know, Chinese Americans? You know, like, the Chinese rip off thing is like Panda Express and whatever. And he is like, I wish I had come up with that. While he’s also at the same time as like, there’s this is trash and not actual Chinese food. Yeah, I guess there’s a level of respect. You have to give people who figure out how to, like commoditize monetize off this stuff?

Jesse Lin 27:11
Yeah, I mean, the last thing I’ll say is that I think it’s really great when you have people like Fuchsia, or whoever you mentioned in the cookbook, who are like really preserving the heritage in a way for more people, especially. And I want to piggyback off the thing with your dad said, because your dad was these like traditions, who cares about traditions if you can make a buck basically. And so it’s like, there, there’s like stuff like that, where it’s like nice that someone actually came back and like cared enough about the heritage of it to try and like preserve it. And then obviously, there’s the other side where it’s like, kind of not great when someone just picked something out of some out of a culture where it’s been a thing for a really long time and doesn’t bother to explain where it came from. And they simply like, proposed it. Like, I’ve always like, this is my idea.

Angela Lin 28:00
Cool. Well, we really enjoyed listening to your stories, this is a good variety, and you guys have such rich experiences. So I’m going to go out of order of our usual stick. But I’ve gotta use this inspiration to remind all of you to just always write us in we were just banking these stories for the next episode. And, and we love to hear from you. So if you have something that you want to share about your experience growing up in this country, or a different country, or whatever you want to tell us, write us in telluswhereyourefrom@gmail.com.

Jesse Lin 28:36
Awesome. So for our Fortune Cookie segment, we wanted to take a moment also to reflect and think about basically what the process of making this podcast has meant to us, like things we’ve learned or things we really enjoyed. So I will start off by saying, I really love the episodes where we have guests, because I feel like every time we have a guest, I always learned something new. And even if it’s just an interesting thing about the guests, I feel like that’s such a rewarding thing to tap into someone else’s perspective, like DJ’s story. I know she’s not a guest right now. But I’m like just an Asian person in the 90s in Ohio, like my brain is like does not understand like, this perspective. Just having these like flashes of insights into different things is like so interesting, because I don’t pretend that I’m really an expert at anything. And I always love talking to people and finding out like, new things about them new things about the world like new things about this like crazy situation that we’re living in. So I think that that’s like probably the most rewarding thing.

Angela Lin 29:52
Yeah, I definitely will just double down on that. Like, I think you and I have learned a lot of things with this podcast, some technical things like how to edit and GarageBand just like all these things, but definitely the most rewarding is connecting with and like finding this community. I don’t think I really expected to have the community that we have, like I kind of expected, like, five of our friends to listen to this and like, but as a favor to us, and like no one would actually be listening. And we’re just doing it for fun, but I really love hearing from people but also, like you said, I think when we have guests on and, and even just you and me, like when we talk, we get so deep, I feel like on these topics that like you learn so much about yourself, the other person, and it’s just making me it’s forcing me to have a moment every week to like be in be in the present moment. And, like, appreciate someone else’s story because I feel like in our day to day lives, it’s all just about like, cranking out work like okay, now I’m tired, like turn on the Netflix, like it’s all like distractions, and you’re just like surface level on a lot of things. And when, even if it’s just you and me talking, like I feel like our friendship has developed so much more, even though I’ve known you since we were five, like, because we’re having such real discussions. And then to your point, when we bring on a guest, it’s like, you’re putting your entire attention on this person for the hour or whatever that we have with them and like really digging into like, what is that special experience that you had? And what can I derive from that and like, a lot of times, it makes me feel, you know, a strong kinship with them and like it makes me feel closer to my Asian and Asian American identity than like I ever had before this so I did not expect that that like doing this podcast would make me feel like so much more connected with the community to you to my identity like all this stuff.

Jesse Lin 32:05
Oh, yeah, warm and fuzzies.

Angela Lin 32:08
Building off the warm and fuzzies, please come back next week because we do intend to keep doing this for as long as you listen to us.

Angela Lin 0:15
Today we have a special guest coming from the UK. And she is going to provide a very different perspective from Jesse and mine’s as we are Asian Americans, she’s going to bring the British Chinese context. So we have Natalie do you want to give yourself an introduction?

Natalie 0:35
Hey, everyone, thank you so much for having me on your podcast, very excited. And I spent a lot of time listening to Asian American podcast before I started my own called Yellow Bee Pod. And so it’s really great to be able to connect and you’re right, I’m British born Chinese. And the born is specific. I think that’s something that people say a lot to make sure they include that in there. I am based in London.

Full Transcript (Note: Transcribed via AI, may contain errors)

Angela Lin 1:00
Cool, and I think you already touched on it but we always like to ask, but where you really from? Is there anything additional to what you just said that you would ask if someone asked you that right now?

Natalie 1:13
The classic question, and uh, yeah, I think my standard answer is that I’m British Born Chinese. I’m from London, but specifically my mom’s from Malaysia.

Angela Lin 1:21
Cool.

Jesse Lin 1:21
Oh interesting.

Angela Lin 1:22
In America we do like we shorthand to ABC for American Born Chinese. Is there like BBC?

Natalie 1:31
Yeah, definitely. But BBC will have multiple meanings. And we also have a TV channel called BBC. And yeah, I would use that if I was among other you know, quote BBCs, but if I wasn’t, I wouldn’t risk it it just has too many other meanings.

Angela Lin 1:47
Cool. Okay, so we’re really just going to compare and contrast our experiences growing up in totally different parts of the world being sounds like you are also first generation or are your parents. Like, were they already British themselves prior? Or did they immigrate to the UK and then have you?

Natalie 2:08
I’m like, one and a half when my mom immigrated from Asia to the UK, but on my dad’s side, he’s also British Born Chinese and my dad, my grandparents, they immigrated from Hong Kong.

Angela Lin 2:19
Oh, cool. Yeah, there’s already different stuff there. Cuz both of our parents were born and raised Taiwan, and then move to California and then had us separately.

Natalie 2:33
In the UK, I think I know the whole of one Taiwanese person.

Angela Lin 2:38
Oh, really? Well, I think it’s changed a lot since we grew up. So Jesse and I grew up in Orange County, California. And when we were growing up, it was mostly Taiwanese people that were there if they were of like, Chinese descent. But it’s shifted a lot since then. So I would say probably from like, the late 2000s onwards, it’s been mostly like mainland Chinese that have been coming in, because obviously, the country in general has gotten like, a lot richer, and a lot of people are moving to the US. So growing up, though, definitely. It was like mostly Taiwanese.

Jesse Lin 3:15
Yeah, I mean, I think this is one of the material like interesting differences already that we’re seeing is that like our composition of Asian immigrants, because obviously, as we’ve discussed, like Asian encompasses, like so many different kinds of people is quite different here than I think anywhere else. And the history and background of those people in immigrating to the United States or to Great Britain is very different as well.

Angela Lin 3:42
Yeah, I’ve got to say I like had never really met any people from like Malaysia or the or like Singapore, more of the, you know, Island, other island nations beyond Taiwan until college and grad school. So because there I don’t think there are that many, at least on the west coast in America.

Natalie 4:05
Yeah, I wouldn’t necessarily say that there were lots of Malaysian Singaporean, etc, and immigrants in the UK. But they were like British colonies, like a lot of other countries were part of this British Empire or part of a Commonwealth. So there is that connection there that has sometimes I think, helped those who were immigrating in the past that sort of helps them to make that decision about where they’re going to go it’s the countries they are familiar with or with language as well. But I don’t think there’s a lot of like Chinese people in the UK who have linked with Malaysia and Singapore. And that’s why I always say that my mom is from Malaysia, because it’s really easy for other British Born Chinese people to assume that both my parents immigrated from Hong Kong, which is probably the most, most common one here again, British colony,

Angela Lin 4:56
Right? – makes sense.

Jesse Lin 4:57
I mean, that’s one similarity, right? That we’re all Like, Oh, actually, our parents are just sometimes I’m just like, Oh, my parents are just from China for the sake of simplicity. People do the same kind of other people do the same kind of lumping too right. They’re like, oh, you’re from China. Yeah.

Natalie 5:13
I don’t like that though because then they like to tell me things about China and unfortunately I haven’t been yet. And I feel like they just want to project whatever they know about the nation of China onto me.

Angela Lin 5:30
So funny, actually, what’s funny, because Jesse, I never tell people, my parents are from China. But when I say Taiwan, some people don’t know what Taiwan is. So like, sometimes they’re like, is that Thailand? Is that the same thing? I’m like, but Okay, so you mentioned your parents are different generation, I guess immigrants too that’s already something very different. I’m curious if the way that your mom and your dad brought you up with like, their parenting towards you was slightly different, perhaps because of one already being, like, totally immersed in British culture prior and one being an immigrant? Was there any noticeable difference growing up?

Natalie 6:16
Yeah, I think there was some differences, especially when I compare to perhaps other British Born Chinese people, because even though like in my household, we grew up speaking Cantonese, which is pretty common for Chinese communities in the UK. And but it was slightly different, because my dad is British Born Chinese like myself. And like, we all know, if you are born in the West, though, our mindset with things and our experiences are very different. And it’s also the case that we didn’t choose to immigrate over here, or to where we are now, where we are now in a minority group. Whereas sometimes I feel like those who have immigrated by choice. They are much more maybe more resilient, where they just suck up when people are like, pretty racist for them. Whereas my experience, people in our generation, or people who are born in the West, are more critical of situations like that, rather than just accepting it as something that because we feel like we shouldn’t have to deal with that as someone who’s existed in that country.

Angela Lin 7:16
So you mentioned racism, and I feel like COVID is a special time, we’re all dealing with a, you know, a heightened sense of Asian, anti Asian racism as a result of that. But let’s remember old times before that, I guess. And just like in general, thinking about the makeup of different racial groups in the UK. I’m curious, first of all, like, how big of a representation is the broader Asian, you know, racial groups within the UK compared to other racial groups? And then like, how much racism really is there on a normal non COVID timeframe? Because the UK is pretty well, I guess, London is special but like, I only think about London. And it seems like a pretty like, a mixed in like, metropolitan, multicultural place. But I know the UK is freaking huge. So depends on where you grew up, I’m sure.

Natalie 8:15
Yeah, definitely. Well, firstly, I can only really share my experiences with things. And I think something that we touched on before is how big Asia is. Like so many different ethnic groups and cultures, languages were encompassed within that. But in the UK, something which I think is very different to the US is that when you say Asian, it’s more likely to mean South Asian than East or Southeast Asian . And this is something which I think is a huge difference. I think it might be down to you know, whoever got here first and claimed that term, or whoever has the larger population. And in the UK, there is a ginormous South Asian populations like Indians, and Pakistanis, Bengali people as well. And yellow, really, really big communities across lots of different cities in the UK. And so when you say Asian, in the UK, it often means South Asian, first and foremost, and that’s even reflected on our census forms on our census forms, which aren’t very good. They have a subheading that says Asian under which it says that three South Asian nationalities and then in a whole different section under others are not Chinese does not come under Asian. It’s always something really interesting because when you’re looking at data, you know, the data that’s recorded for you know, science research, health care, or the police or whatever it is, you really got to interrogate what when they say, you know, Asian communities are affected, what do they actually mean is Chinese included in that or not, because it depends on how they’ve referenced their data. And, and so that’s the box that I tick, but then all the other East and Southeast Asian countries are not listed at all. So it’s not ideal, it’s not great but also that we can’t really, I can’t really give you a number of, or the percentage of the population, which are East and Southeast Asian because we don’t we just don’t know it. But the percentage of Chinese people is like less than 1%.

Jesse Lin 10:19
Wow. That’s that’s smaller than I was expecting.

Angela Lin 10:22
Same. Yeah. Yeah. Like you already clearly know this. But yeah. When when you say Asian in the US that it does not include South Asian, Southeast…well, Southeast Asian. Yes. Yeah. South Asian is like, I don’t know, sometimes they want to be part of the Asian umbrella. Sometimes they don’t. But usually, when people say Asian, they’re not thinking South Asian, like it’s a separate thing. Let’s talk about then since you are one of you said 1% of the population. What was that like growing up? Because I think one of the common threads for Jesse me and a lot of Asian Americans growing up is like, we weren’t treated the worst per se, right. Like we’re so model minority. There are other racial groups that are definitely treated worse than than we were. And we also grew up in a more diverse part of the country. So it’s not like we were odd, like gonna stand out because we were Asian, or Chinese or Taiwanese. But there was this, like, constant sentiment where we were like, you know, I wish I was white, like life would be a lot easier if I was white. And that’s definitely the way that we grew up. I’m curious, what was going through your head when you were growing up? When you’re looking at like, you know, the other kids around you and how they were interacting with you. Was there a similar sentiment? Or is there something kind of distinct based on where you grew up?

Natalie 11:48
Yeah, I think there definitely are a lot of similarities, and which is why I leaned into so much Asian American media growing up, I went to a school, which was predominantly white, I think I was the only like east or Southeast Asian person in my, my year group at school. But growing up in school, I never really realized that some of the things that people were saying to me, were actually race racist, like race related. And in my head, it was just normal, because I’ve never not been a Chinese woman, you know, like, I’ve never experienced life in a different body. And I never will. So I sometimes find it difficult to identify where I have had experiences of being discriminated against. But sometimes it’s just very overt like things. No, there’s these sort of like playground taunts that anyone can get really, anything that you’d have or do that’s different. Kids are cruel. Yes. They’ve been sort of things. But that’s absolutely not to normalize it but and what I find really scary now, like with as an adult, with that hindsight, is how yeah, normalized it is. But what also where did the kids learn it from, because kids don’t come out of the womb, knowing racial stereotypes. And also in terms of your name, and I don’t know whether you have had similar experience to this. But when I was in my earliest years of school, so up until the age of maybe seven or eight, I was registered under my, like, legal middle name, which is my Cantonese name. And so there would always be sort of comments or, you know, I don’t want to say jokes, but you know, people making fun of me for my name, which is not a, I don’t know, a Western name or biblical name. Right. In hindsight, that’s not okay. But at the time, it was really normal. You know, I never really thought anything of it.

Angela Lin 13:40
The middle name thing is interesting, because I said, Jesse and I both have Chinese names. I don’t know about Jesse, your legal name, but my legal name, I don’t have my Chinese name as my middle name, but my brother does. And I remember when I was growing up, I remember him getting made fun of because his Chinese name was his middle name, and people couldn’t pronounce it. Or they’re like, what’s that? That’s funny. And like, I remember a sense of like, relief on my side of like, oh, thank God, my parents didn’t put my Chinese name as my middle name. Because, for me growing up, it was like, how do I reject all parts of my my Asianness? That’s like, making me different from everyone else. So yeah, that’s, uh, it’s funny, you bring that up, because I definitely have memories.

Jesse Lin 14:31
I also feel like even though we both have like American names, it was still very much something that people would ask. They’d be like, What’s your real name? What do you mean? Like, this is my legal real name? Um, and I don’t think my name is that funny. But it is not common, I think feel like for an Asian dude to have the name Jesse. So people would ask me all the time, like, what’s my real name? And I’d be like, well, that’s my real name like you mean my like Chinese name, it’s completely different and doesn’t sound anything like what my English name is. I think some people think that they’re like, they thought it was like a phonetic translation or something like that. I was like, no, it’s it’s just English name.

Natalie 15:13
It’s such a strange thing when people ask questions like that they are just making so many assumptions.

Jesse Lin 15:18
I was thinking about something you were saying. And I’m really interested in understanding, like how the general population views diversity, like what their perspective is on it, like if it’s important, if they’re interested in seeking that, because that’s it, diversity has always been, I feel like a huge pain point in the US because of like, the racial policies of the past. And I feel like sometimes in talking to European friends, Angela, I actually I don’t know if you have the same experience, but I kind of feel like when I was in Spain, people will be like, you guys, like people would tell me that, like Americans talk about race too much, or they’re too easily offended about, like, racial things. And I’d be like, really, like, are we? Are we really sensitive? Or is it just that like, you guys don’t have enough focus on that, or you don’t see it in a more critical way.

Natalie 16:08
In the UK, is really, really varied. And you never see the opinions come out more than on Twitter, which I’m trying to less time on for my mental well being. But for example, in London Angela you’re right in saying it’s a very ethnically diverse place, as I said, there’s this huge South Asian populations, but also black communities, and other ethnic groups as well. Um so much so in fact that there’s, you know, areas of London, which they have, like, you know, the train station sign is written in the South Asian language, because there’s a big community there. And there’s people there who never sort of leave that community and always speak their home, their mother tongue. But so London has like campaigns, about, you know, diversity, and you know, how Londoners Really do come from all different walks of life. But then you also see a lot of kickback to that. What I say to that is, if you don’t have to think about race all the time, and you’re in a position where you, you think like race has been spoken about too much, that’s a position of privilege, because you don’t have to think about it. And in some cases, I would also put myself in that group, because I’ve never, I haven’t experienced too much like, overy racism and not in my adult life as well. Which means that I can go through some parts of life without thinking about my ethnicity, or the dynamics in the in the room in there with other people’s ethnic identities. I think it’s important to have these conversations, but sometimes, and sometimes I feel like the US voice is so loud, politics and media, that like everyone else just gets sucked into this tornado as well. And maybe that’s not a bad thing, because US politics will definitely affect us here in the UK. Um but it is, it is loud.

Angela Lin 17:56
We’re just a loud people in general. We’re like that when we’re abroad as well.

Natalie 18:04
We absorb, you know, so much American media whether that’s movies and music, etc. So it makes sense.

Jesse Lin 18:10
So I’m wondering if any of the same stereotypes that we’ve discussed, such as like model minority also apply in the UK where like people see South Asian or Asian people the same way that they see here, where it’s like, these people are like, industrious and hardworking, and thus, they’re like a tier above, like all the other race races.

Natalie 18:32
Yeah, I think that definitely is a sense of the model minority trope, particularly in the workplace, and more about, you know, if I, if I work really hard, and keep my head down, then I’ll be rewarded. That’s how I fit in. That’s how I find success. I think it’s definitely more so the case with East Asians and that’s something that we are talking about more and more, and hopefully, we will see more East Asian people stepping up and speaking out, and whatever it is that they’re passionate about. That’s really something that I would like to see here in the UK, because if you asked, you know, the average British person, you know, names someone of whose British or British and East or Southeast Asian, they all really struggle. I think. Like, it’s not there’s not that many public figures. In the past, there might have been some celebrities with some east or Southeast Asian heritages, but they might not have spoken about it, we might not even realize they have these ethnic identities. So that’s something I hope to see improve, you know, not just in the entertainment space, but also in politics, and sports and journalism, etc.

Angela Lin 19:43
I’m curious because you mentioned that there are such big communities have especially like South Asians, that sometimes the signs are in their local language and whatnot. I’m curious if there is a problem with like, non…I’ll just whatever…white British people seeing other minorities like South Asians and other minority groups as like not British, and like still kind of separate because I, I could kind of see that versus like in the US, um, because it’s not like you just like walk into a city or a county and like everyone is only speaking a different language like there is not that sentiment. So there is this kind of like, unifying thing of like, Okay, well, we’re all we’re all Americans, but like, you’re also like Mexican, or you’re also Chinese or whatever, like, there is that more like holistic umbrella. So I’m curious if that still applies, or if there is still more of a contentious like debate over the definition of what makes someone British?

Natalie 20:54
Yeah, and this is something I’ve been thinking about a lot. Because I’ve always Yeah, they said, I call myself is British and Chinese, so British Born Chinese. But there definitely are some conversations, as I mentioned that there are in the US as well, about, you know, who belongs here, or, you know, the media loves to make a fuss about immigration, and asylum seekers, I definitely see commentary in the UK. And actually, I will say, I was gonna say that I don’t associate with people like that. But even some of people like my colleagues, or people who are sort of within my social circles surprise me sometimes with their opinions on immigration, who belongs here. And then sometimes, when I’m in these conversations with white people, I wonder whether they forget that I’m an ethnic minority as well. The people that they’re speaking about could be, you know, my family members. And, and it always comes from a point of ignorance, but they don’t realize like how horrible the impact the wider impact of these opinions can be. But I think something that is very different for me is whether you would describe yourself as British or English, which is different. So like England is a country within Great Britain. And yes, I guess I am English, because I was born here. But I would never describe myself as English, because I would associate that more with that ethnic group. Whereas the term British is a little more linked to your nationality, your citizenship, it’s almost like, I have this document this passport, you can’t take that away from me. But I have that, you know, proof that I am British, whereas people would argue with me that I’m not English. So I wouldn’t even argue that even though I’ve only ever lived in England. So that sort of thing, I think is really interesting, because I do see a trend, where the term English is used by a lot of far right people, and but also more, so the term British is as well. And I think since the like Brexit four years ago, that’s even more a case where people really want to highlight this British identity. But when they talk about that, most of the time, I think minorities do not fit into what they’re talking about. And I’m kind of worried that the term British will be changed or taken away from ethnic minority communities.

Jesse Lin 23:22
I mean, when you were just talking about, like, people who put their foot in their mouths about stuff like that, I was like, Oh, my God, I cannot. There are so many times where people say that like about the Asian identity, or about because I’m gay, or about being gay. And they’re like, oh, wait, but we don’t mean you.

Natalie 23:37
You’re one of the good ones!

Jesse Lin 23:38
I’m like, this is like, this is who I am like, this is very confusing. But to piggyback off of what Angela was asking about, for those people who do immigrate to the country legally, like, what is the opinion of, let’s say, an English person, or someone who’s lived there for generations in terms of how they expect this immigrant to conform to English or British society?

Natalie 24:05
That’s really interesting. And I would say that in the UK, I do think there is this expectation that people will come here to assimilate, and it’s considered strange if they don’t end up learning the language. But then similarly, I don’t think there’s really support for them to do that either. I mean, if I immigrated to another country, I would 100% be finding people who spoke the same language as me and building the you know, finding my communities. So I completely understand why those who have immigrated to the UK have done that as and found their little pockets. If you look at sort of some east or Southeast Asian communities who have immigrated to the UK, for example, something that I learned recently was a couple of decades back where there was a significant pressure for the UK to take in Vietnamese refugees. They were actually like deliberately spread into lots of different like parts of the country, so that I think the motive behind that was to discourage you know, one large Vietnamese community. And when you hear things like that, it’s no wonder that we all feel like we all grew up in a white suburb, because there really was a motive there behind it. But it could also be, you know, for other things where it’s just like, your parents wanted to open a Chinese takeaway, and they couldn’t all open a Chinese takeaway in the same town. It’s just interesting to see like these trends

Jesse Lin 25:28
Do we want to spend this next like section discussing about the whole, like growing up and wishing your white kind of situation we touched upon up top. I mean, I can kick it off, if you guys would like. Here’s the thing is, it’s like, as Angela said, like, we were mistreated in any way, like, honestly, I don’t think anyone said anything, like racially insensitive, like specific, like a slur or anything like that, um, growing up, but there’s definitely this sense of like otherness, because when you look around at the media, and like, the portrayals of things that are desirable, and what everyone and even what everyone is, is schooled, trying to do, like, a lot of it is focused around this like nuclear suburb, like white looking family and like heteronormative values. And so even though there’s no intention of trying to be like, there’s no direct intention of trying to be exclusionary of Asian people, or of people of other kinds of communities, but the enforcement of that message and the singularity of it. Like, it creates an otherness, right? It creates alienation. And so growing up, I feel like that’s what I largely felt like you never really see yourself represented. And so it’s really hard to be secure in yourself. Because you can only pick your own identity from yourself and your experiences, you can’t be like, if you are white, you could pick some of your experiences, identity from the messages that you saw in popular culture, and what’s like the main messaging, right? So it’s, it was just, it just made everything more difficult growing up, and more challenging to really piece together who you are. And at some points, you kind of give up and you’re just like, I want to fall into this like prevailing narrative, and I want to be white, and I want to have all those things. Because it’s just so difficult to try and figure out the other thing, which there’s no clear path or like model for.

Angela Lin 27:39
Yeah, I feel like when you’re a kid, all you want is to be accepted. And, like, I would agree with what you said, just say like, I don’t think people were explicitly telling me like, you don’t belong here or anything like that. But just looking around and seeing like, oh, who are like the popular kids, like, what’s the makeup of that group? And they would be all white kids are like, there’s a token Asian, how did they get so lucky to like break into that group. And then I also noticed they like, because they also reject everything about their Asianness, is how they are able to do that like, but there’s definitely a sense for me of like, oh, well, that spot is filled. So I guess that can’t be me. Yeah, that’s that’s always how it felt. And then you look around and you’re like, oh, well, the other minorities? Well, you said you grew up as like probably the only Chinese person around you. So it’s probably different for you. But for us, we had definitely we had other Taiwanese people we had Orange County had like a good Persian population. So you would see the other kids but like, they were in their own groups too, or like, we minorities wouldn’t mix with each other. But like the we would not mix too much with the white kids. Like, that’s just you just look around and you happen to see that that’s like the clustering of people. And you’re like, I guess this is normal. So I guess I don’t belong with with, like, popular kids, which I always coveted. And I was like, oh, why can’t I be as cool as they are? You know, like, they’re just, it’s because when you’re growing up? It’s all just like, how do I be like the most accepted the most loved and like, I guess I will never achieve that because I’m not born a certain way.

Natalie 29:21
Hmm. Yeah, I think it is such a sensitive topic, but it’s good to have that open conversations about it. And the reason I’m interested in it is because I like growing up. I didn’t, I never wanted to be white. And that is based on the conversation that I’m having more and more frequently with other British Asian people where they did, and particularly in the case of women and beauty standards, and I think that’s something which is quite, like scary and also really sad because don’t teenagers already have enough pressure on themselves? And oh, yeah, there’s something about your like appearance that you just can’t change and ethnicity is a big one of them. But yeah, it’s human nature to want to fit in and I think what happens in the playground is reflected in, you know, all parts of life. And we can’t act like, no adults are better than that, or adults are different to that. One, I didn’t want to be white. And I perhaps didn’t consciously reject my Asian heritage. But there was definitely a case where I was trying to distance myself with Asian people who are not British born, and British raised. And I think that was a real learning curve for me, in order to just realize my internalized racism there, basically. And I think that’s something which we will everyone who’s had that experience, when you really need to unpack and is, yeah, I love like these spaces to have these really authentic and personal conversations about a topic, which can be quite difficult. And it’s definitely not something which I would be talking about with people who I didn’t feel like we’d get it regardless of identity.

Angela Lin 30:57
Do you also use the phrase Fresh Off the Boat in the UK? Or is that it?

Natalie 31:02
Yeah, but I’m trying not to, because I’ve only ever used it in a way that I’m trying to distance myself from them.

Angela Lin 31:08
Yeah. Well, I thought about it, because you said that because we definitely did that growing up where we’re like, oh, that’s the FOB group that’s like the fobby group. And like, we’re not, we’re American-Asian, like we’d always made that distinction as well. Yeah, no, you’re like constantly justifying your place in society of like, well, I was born here so I don’t count as like one of those, you know, external people? Well, let’s move on to something more fun. So we’ll move into our close, our close, as always a Fortune Cookie. That’s what we like to call it. Because we always like to end on a sweet treat. What we love to hear from you is your favorite, localized things that are fusions that like integrate the original culture, but it’s like mixed in distinctly with British culture. So like in the US. One of my favorite things is Korean Mexican food, because that’s a very, like, Los Angeles things specifically, actually. But it’s not like spread out to everywhere in the US. But it started because in LA, there is a part of the city where Korean people, like there’s a huge Korean population. And then there’s a huge Mexican population that happened to like, share the same, like zip code, essentially. And so there is like, huge influence foodwise between the two. And then Roy Choi, I think he created Korean Mexican fusion food, and it’s like, delicious, and it’s one of my favorite things. But so American in my mind, because it is like this, the mix of two distinct cultures that doesn’t exist, that wouldn’t have existed, right, if these two groups hadn’t been in the same place in the US at the same time. So I’m curious if there’s something that is kind of like that, like a fusion-y thing that you you really like about the UK doesn’t have to be food. But that’s a, that could be a starting point.

Natalie 33:05
No, I do think food is a big one. And there’s definitely several several parts of London, which are sort of upcoming aka newly gentrified, which has a lot of food spots, like they’re all over in all the directions of London. And they not necessarily fusion, but definitely more East and Southeast Asian food is becoming trendy. And that’s great. People who are part of that ethnic group, and are able to start businesses based on that, as long as it’s people from the ethnic group, I’m happy. I wouldn’t say that it’s necessarily fusion, but it’s probably not, you know, the authentic of food that they get home necessarily. Maybe it does already have the western influences that I just don’t know, because I’m coming at it from that Western point of view. And I think that’s something that’s really, really great. And also something which I think is growing and new is the British Asian community that has come together online and using the term Asian as a collective for East and Southeast Asians as well, more and more. And I wouldn’t say that that’s the norm yet, but it’s growing. And I’m really, really pleased to see that because I think that’s really great, powerful Chinese people and Chinese communities like the one that I’m in to team up with other Asian ethnic groups.

Jesse Lin 34:26
Well, thank you for joining us on our episode this week. This was a really fun and illuminating conversation.

Angela Lin 34:31
Yeah, thank you.

Natalie 34:32
Thank you so much for having me on your podcast. It’s been really, really fun and to connect them to lots of different experiences, similarities and differences. Um my podcast called Yellow Bee Pod, B as in bumblebee. And you can find it on wherever you’re listening to this, I guess, and I would love to connect and hear from you. If there’s something here that you’ve learned about the British experience or can relate to that has resonated with you. And my favorite thing about my podcast is being able to meet different people that I otherwise would have never connected with, including you two. Really, really cool.

Jesse Lin 35:04
Likewise. So if you enjoyed this episode, please let us know if you have something to add about your experience if you’re living in a completely different country from the US and UK where you are also an Asian minority, feel free to chime in, drop us a DM on Instagram or you can email us at telluswhereyourefrom@gmail.com.

Angela Lin 35:27
Come back next week for another new episode.

Angela Lin 0:17
Today we are continuing our saga in finding Asians who are doing cool shit. And we have a special guest today Anna, who is one said Asian so I will let Anna introduce herself before we get into the meat of the conversation. And you can enjoy yourself and or if you want to lump in our signature, starter question – “but where you really from?” Feel free.

Full Transcript (Note: Transcribed via AI, may contain errors)

Anna 0:48
Yes. So I am Anna and I am Vietnamese American. When I am asked where you really from, I try to do that thing where like I mess with the person. And I’m like, oh, like this state. And then I just get more and more specific. Within like the US until like they get frustrated or whatever. Because we both know what’s happening when they asked that question. And I just keep being mean about it. And so it’s it’s like a game of chicken. But when I’m asked that question, my preferred answer eventually, is my parents are from Vietnam. And I say that because it’s super intentional, as and you know, by both of my parents are US citizens. They have been for decades. I think this year marks the year that my mom has lived in the US as long as she lived in Vietnam. Yeah, right. So yes, they, they are Vietnamese, they were born in Vietnam, I carry that culture. But also, I was born here. And so that like really is what they want to know. So without being disingenuous, saying, my parents are from Vietnam, you know, answers their question while, not feeling like a sellout or whatever.

Jesse Lin 2:22
Yeah, it’s very similar. I do like to make people guess a little bit though, because people who try to guess the race are often very, very wrong. And I just like to play with that a little bit. And then and then I also default generally to like, oh, my parents are from Taiwan.

Anna 2:39
Right. And what’s so interesting is, sometimes you don’t even have to ask them to guess before they tell you what they were guessing anyway. So I’m like, you know, they I’m like, oh, my parents are from Vietnam. And they’re like, oh, okay. Because I was thinking, Okay, I’m, thanks for telling me I really did not care. In recent years, I’ve gotten a lot of Pacific Islander, I get that pretty often. But when you ask like Vietnamese people from Vietnam, I always get either like Korean or Chinese. Yeah, starting, like, in my late 20s, I, like, developed a fuller body gained a lot more weight than you know, I had been the first 25 years of my life. And so that made it so that the difference between what Vietnamese people thought of it a Vietnamese woman looked like and what I like, departed much more. So..

Angela Lin 3:41
I feel like there was a common thread of like, we’re not really fully here, and we’re not fully there, either. Yeah. Cool. Well, okay, so now we know where you’re from, what about so what do you do? Because we want to highlight what cool shit you’re doing.

Anna 3:59
Yeah. So I have to preface this with my views are my own and not representative of a politician or employer past or present, blah, blah, blah. So I work in policy, and that means many different things. At first, that was, like analysis, the spreadsheets, I got into mapping. And before my current position, I worked in the US House of Representatives, actually, for the Congresswoman who represented us when we were students at NYU. So while I was working on the Hill, super excited, you would just be like in the hallways like, oh, there’s John Lewis. And like, there’s like Nancy Pelosi, which is super tight, and you know, these buildings have been here forever and so much happens here. But then about June of last year 2019 right? I started working for the state Democratic Party in my home state. And I am the operations manager here. And it’s kind of one of my dream roles, because I’ve always wanted to do the behind the scenes work the non politics of politics. I am not meant to be a spokeswoman for anyone; nobody wants me like, I will just like, say, terrible things, or, you know, just like, people would just tear me apart, I just have have never had a very good filter, or I’ve never been very diplomatic. That’s a good word for it too right? But I am really like, organized and logic driven, and able to problem solve. And so I apply that to my work. And that is different. Over the course of a year or an election cycle, this time of the year is solely focused on get out the vote efforts. I coordinate a lot with our candidates to make sure they are able to get in front of voters rally the troops. And it’s been super weird. Of course, with a pandemic. In a non pandemic year, we would be going all like across the state and knocking on doors and like hauling microphones and signs and all that type of stuff. But it’s not as sexy this year. It’s like me with my Word documents and highlighting and bolding and stuff like that. Crossing items off my checklist. And I would say the other part of it is the events are big events like when we would do fundraisers. I’m like the linens person or like the programs person making sure catering + security. This year, we had national convention that would have been in Milwaukee, that would have been me, our state convention, that was my role too. And so you know, we had spent over a year getting ready for these events did all of this planning just for like in like, April for us to be like, okay, that’s really nice all of those things that we did, let’s like go back to the drawing board and figure out how we’re going to do this virtually.

Angela Lin 7:25
So it sounds like you do like 30 jobs in one. And like some of those things, I’m like, okay, okay, I can see like Asian parents getting part of what you do have, like, you know, there’s like organization, there’s like problem solving. But politics isn’t like, traditional career path that Asian immigrants, especially immigrant parents, right, who, like come here to start a new life, are imagining that their kids will end up choosing how did your parents feel when you were like, I’m going down this path? And like, how supportive are they of you currently?

Anna 8:06
Yeah, my parents were and are very typical of Asian parents in some ways, but not in others. So my dad is physically and mentally disabled, but like my whole life, and so he doesn’t work. And my mom, she raised us three kids on multiple low paying jobs at any point in time minimum wage worker The only thing she ever wanted from her three kids was for all of us to graduate from college, which we did. So much happiness there. And really, she did not care if we started studied underwater basket weaving, if we like film, or like witchcraft, whatever, she’s like, you’re going to get this degree, because I wasn’t able to go to school at all, she was not able to go to school at all. So she’s like, as long as you’re a good person, and you get this degree. And, you know, she worries about, you know, her kids, whether they’re happy, whether they’re like, able to take care of themselves and like, have resources as long as like, she just doesn’t want us to struggle the way we did growing up. And so, in that way, she’s super supportive. But what makes my parents very characteristically Asian, however, is they have no idea what I do. You know, like, for a long time, many, like at least two years, my dad continued to tell people that I was a teacher, which is fine, you’re just fine. You do that because it’s a very revered occupation. And I’m like, okay, whatever sticks. And now he’s kind of like she works in an office is he tells other Asian people and other Asian were like, okay, okay. Sometimes they say like, you work, they work. She works for the government. But yeah, that’s, that’s the weird part. And what’s really telling and has been, like, monumental in the last few years is my mom has been eligible to vote since like 1988, or whatever. She only voted for the first time in 2018.

Angela Lin 10:24
What?

Anna 10:25
Yeah. Thinking about this very important conversation of like Asians and politics, we know that our politics are so different, like between ethnic groups, but also within ethnic groups, when I was trying to engage with like Vietnamese American voters in actually Orange County…

Angela Lin 10:44
Garden Grove?

Anna 10:47
Yes, don’t even I was I was a worker for the Democratic Party to get out the vote in Orange County specifically, you know, I was trying to learn the vocabulary related to voting Democrat, Republican, candidate. How do you, you say these words in Vietnamese, when the motherland is literally a communist country? They do not vote. How do you say the word ballot? Okay. So that’s, that’s super challenging, too. So my, my parents didn’t have that context growing up. It’s not like they ever went to a polling booth. It’s not like they really like have this belief that my vote will be respected by these government politicians.

Angela Lin 11:30
Wow.

Jesse Lin 11:31
That is like one of the reasons I feel like a lot of people commonly Don’t think about as to why the voter turnout amongst Asians and younger people like, well, let’s just talk about like older generation Asians first, is pretty low, because they just in some countries, like they’re immigrating from places where they’re just not accustomed to it, right. Like, it doesn’t exist. But I’m wondering, as you work through, you know, with the party, like if you’ve noticed any other reasons that might not be so obvious that like, discourage older Asians, or Asian immigrants from turning out and getting to vote?

Anna 12:06
Yeah. So I am a weird person in that I love paperwork, and bureaucracy, like I see it as like, yeah, like, let’s, let’s do this, you think you can keep me away with your forms? Oh, you’ve got another thing coming. I absolutely understand that there are people that feel the absolute opposite that as, as soon as they know that there are forms to be filed things mail or fax, they’re like, that doesn’t exist, I’m not dealing with that. And so I think that that’s part of it. With some older Asian voters of, you know, you have to either like show up at this date and time with these documents. And the chances are, it’s not going to be in a language that’s accessible to you. Like some states are better at this than others. But there are no states that are great at this. So if you have received your voter guide yet, or if you’ve looked at it, like those things are massive, someone that’s in California can be at the polling booth for like, an hour, just voting, voting, voting. So the voter guide is enormous. A candidate however, has to pay extra money like $500 to get that in Spanish should come standard. Yeah. So if you’re just like running for like, city council, or whatever, you got to pay $500 to get it in Spanish, let alone right, Vietnamese, or, like an indigenous language to Central America. That’s not a thing. So if you’re looking at okay, there’s all of this like, tiny little text, and I need to pick one and the only way I can differentiate these is this, like enormous book in boring English. Why I am I even going to…why would I even try? I can’t imagine. So that’s a huge barrier as well. But when I was working for the California Democrats in Orange County, I learned that a big issue that was happening with the Asian community is their ballots were being rejected at a higher rate than other voters, because their signatures didn’t match, like whatever they their signature look like when they got their driver’s license or when they registered, right. So what happens when when that bounces back is someone’s like, gonna look at it and be like, oh, this doesn’t look like the same signature. They’ll get a letter in the mail. And just like, imagine, like your grandma or your aunt or whatever, they get this letter in the mail and it’s like, like something about voting ballot, blah, blah, blah, like and they’re like what? you’re not going to go through that slash, they may or may not understand what that says. Yeah, yeah. So just so many hoops to jump through and not at all an accommodating system.

Angela Lin 15:13
Radical thought that that’s not that radical. I’m sure everyone has thought this before. But like, given all the things that are broken in the way that our current voting system is set up, like what is the biggest roadblock do you think for like, making it honestly just easier for everyone to vote in terms of like digitizing the vote, like that would make translation so much easier that would make like – well, I guess there’s access issues if people don’t have in, you know, Internet access, but like, for a large part of the population, at least it would make it so that like, the barrier to entry is lower, so that you don’t have to, like physically go anywhere and like you don’t get this huge packet. Like, what is up? Why are we not like innovating here?

Anna 16:03
Yeah, I mean, really, we aren’t even at the place yet where we need to innovate. We’re at the place where just the foundational low lying fruit we haven’t figured out. Like in the next two weeks I’m gonna tell you now you’re gonna see a lot about ballot drop boxes in the news and because like Texas right now, per county, like a judge ruled you can only have one per county, one dropbox to serve all of Houston and all others cities and towns in whatever county. Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? So like low lying fruit is? Get these dropboxes is out there, like so. If someone doesn’t have money for a stamp, you know, you can drop it in a dropbox. But also beyond that, like, you should be able to mail this without postage, which is just like some states they only have been introducing that in recent elections. Right?

Angela Lin 17:05
Oh, my God, I did not know that.

Jesse Lin 17:07
Does the ballot in California not require postage.

Angela Lin 17:09
No, it says no postage, if mailed in the US.

Jesse Lin 17:12
I had to pay for a stamp

Angela Lin 17:13
New York?!

Jesse Lin 17:15
It didn’t say it was free. Like usually it’ll say exactly what you said. Right? It didn’t say that on my thing. So I was like, I will put a stamp on it just to be safe.

Anna 17:24
It’s I only read this last night, it’s still federal law that it has to make it to like where it’s going to be counted. But in that case, the county elections office has to pay for it, which is, you know, support the USPS. But like, you know, just that’s another barrier, right? That if I didn’t tell Jesse that just now and you know, he’s like, I don’t have a stamp. Because really, I know so many young people that don’t have stamps on them ever..

Who carries stamps, like you have to go out of your way.

Jesse Lin 17:53
Girl what is a stamp. Someone’s gonna be asking that sooner or later.

Anna 17:58
Yep. So it’s like those, like automatic voter registration would be another one. Some states have it so that, like, when you come of age, or when you take your driver’s test, or you get your license, boom, you’re automatically registered. But also, you know, if you’re going to have like, a voting system, where it’s like not absentee, and you have to go to a polling place, federal holiday, you know. Otherwise, like, you have to take time off of work or whatever, or, and if you do take time off of work, it might be unpaid. Voter id that’s like, trash. You know. And again, picking on Texas, like a, you know, they’re not even like the worst, there are states that are worse than Texas. But you can register to vote with your like, gun toting license or whatever. But you cannot register to vote with your college ID last I heard, so that type of stuff, like people in the black community are less likely to have formal identification than like other racial groups. And so if you just don’t have like a driver’s license, or whatever, I guess I don’t get to register to vote. And so there’s just also so many other attacks on voting as well. And so that’s a whole nother issue that’s more and more salient with each passing day, unfortunately.

Jesse Lin 19:30
Yeah, I honestly never thought about the ID thing until like, a couple years ago, when NYC started releasing the city ID and one of my friends got it and I was like, why did you get this? She was like, I don’t have a driver’s license. I never learned how to drive. So like, I didn’t have a license to transfer to New York. So I basically have no like, Id that I can carry on me at all times. So she got it, but it was like I – it’s something I think as you mentioned, that’s like so foundational that like nobody is really thinking about like In terms of getting people access.

Angela Lin 20:01
I’ve literally never thought about it till just now.

Anna 20:08
And that’s such a New York thing, not having a driver’s license that blew my mind.

Angela Lin 20:11
But like, does she go to bars? You need an ID though. Most of my New York friends don’t have a driver’s license, but they have a state ID for the purpose of drinking.

Jesse Lin 20:23
You know, I might be wrong, it might have been that she got like a, like a state ID identity card instead of NYC one but it was like not a driver’s license. But it’s like the first time that I’ve seen that, because we grew up in California, where everyone drives. Everyone has to have a license basically. So, um, aside from the realities of what you’re working with, right now, what are like, what are like, the favorite parts of what you do now? And like, how did you fall into it?

Anna 20:52
Politics has always been something that I knew was incredibly important. Like, don’t talk to me about the mitochondria of a cell, I could care less, I really could care less, because you know, what is important? You know, the fact that my like, grandparents and all of us, we have to drive an hour plus on the weekends to get to the immigration office, and like, why do these family members like have a green card, whereas like, we don’t, and just like that kind of BS, or, you know, going to really struggling schools, or, you know, my, my siblings and I were all Headstart kids free lunch every year, we went to school. And so I knew how important it was because I saw the direct impact and consequences in just like multiple times throughout my day. So I kind of I always knew I wanted to work in policy in some way, but I always knew I was not going to be a politician. And and so that’s where the I didn’t know that this existed kind of comes into play. You know, having grown up in like, the just like the section eight housing, the really rough part of my hometown, like, I remember being asked, like, what do you want to be when you grow up? And I would say, like, hairdresser, not particularly because I wanted to be a hairdresser. But because I had never met a PhD before, I had never met a lawyer before. I had never met an accountant before, like my family, my family, like didn’t make enough money to file taxes. Like, what I wouldn’t even know what a CPA was. And so it was like, I wanted to be a hairdresser. I wanted to be a firefighter. And so you cannot be what you cannot see. And so it wasn’t until I got to college, that I was like, oh, there are people who work in policy, who aren’t politicians, okay. And then like, oh, there’s such thing as education policy. And then there’s people that like, are just like, really, really bookish and nerdy. And that’s their job is to be really smart about policy and tell people that they should do this, like, yes, that is me. And so how I ended up here with like, doing the non politics of politics, and doing the behind the scenes work is just eventually orbiting what it was that I wanted to do for long enough that eventually I landed here. What I like about my work is, I think that what I do, has, like, direct consequences on people’s lives, you know, and you know, like that, that kind of goes back to like, why I said when I was a little kid, right, I was passionate about politics is like this is important. I still feel like I’m contributing towards these super, super, like, critical, unjust aspects in serving, like marginalized people that I didn’t see served growing up.

Angela Lin 24:02
I really liked what you said about you can’t be what you can’t see. So going along with that, like, once this world did open up to you, and you like had a better idea of all the different career paths that you could take within the world of policy, or grander politics, right? Like, like, I don’t know, what’s under the hood in terms of like government, employment. So are there a lot of Asians that work in policy and like, do you see people that you’re like, oh, I like I feel represented, or I feel like I’m gonna be embraced because I see people who look like me, like, how much of that exists?

Anna 24:44
Yeah, it’s tough. We’re pretty few and far between. and, you know, I could even go so far to say that like, it’s, there’s a gender aspect to that makes all of this even more challenging. So I want to talk about like Congress and how this plays out there of you know, people of color are very, very underrepresented in the halls of Congress. The problem is even worse, even more disgusting. When you look at the people who work for the members of Congress, my goodness, it’s only been in the last like, three, four years that they even started collecting data on, like, the racial composition of these staff. And I swear, there are senate offices, there are like committee offices where upwards of 95% of the staff is white. And it’s just like, how is it that you know, these people that make such consequential decisions that affect people of color that affect people who aren’t white men just aren’t even in the room, like, not even a little bit for like, many, many years? And, you know, that’s not something that gets a lot of either, like attention, or people aren’t aware of it? Because why would you be and like, even if you want it to be aware of it, like they only started, you know, recording and publishing this information recently. And the you know, it’s like the senate diversity initiative and the house diversity initiative. This data, they even break it down by senior staff, because look, don’t count your intern, you don’t even pay them. Right. You can’t say you have an intern of color and like, oh, yeah, we’re so diverse. Haha. No. So yeah, like, that’s, that’s the unfortunate next step is like, just because you see something that you can be doesn’t mean, they’re gonna welcome you. Doesn’t mean they’re reading for you. And, you know, it’s there, there are consequences to our government, not reflecting the people that they serve. Just, I remember working in Congress, and you know, our member of Congress, like represented parts of three boroughs of New York City had been in office for decades, and no part of their website was available in a language other than English, you know what I mean? And like, people reach out to this member of Congress for like, you’re supposed to call them for if you have issues with the post office, you’re supposed to call them, if you have issues with like immigration, you’re supposed to call them like they – this is a representative democracy. They’re supposed to be your voice in Congress. But if you go to the website, it’s like, oh, go over here for a flag request, go over here to like, you know, contact me for this or whatever. And it’s like, mmm no, come on, y’all, you just need a Google drop down. That’s all you got to do. Why? So just if you know, all of the staff in your office are from the Northeast, private school educated way, upper middle income, then they’re not going to think about whether or not this website is in a language other than English and how that looks and what it takes to get it in a language other than English for sure.

Angela Lin 28:12
How much do you think of that is like this boys club kind of situation versus like, Asians don’t think about this kind of career path? Like I kind of feel like it’s both probably.

Anna 28:29
Yeah, it’s both. And maybe if you had asked me before I worked in Congress, I would have said, it’s a little bit more balanced, the two contributing reasons there. But having worked in Congress, now I know that it’s a lot more because of how exclusionary and exclusive politics can be. So you if you want to work on the Hill, generally, you have to work as an unpaid, unpaid zero paid intern for many, many months until you become a underpaid staff assistant. And when you are an underpaid staff assist, and you are required to own a car to drive your member of your boss around your member of Congress around. And so it’s like, how do you think I saved up for this car and gas and in like, insurance when you haven’t been paying me for a year, and let alone if I have like student loans, whatever. And everyone knows, like DC super expensive to live there. And so even if it isn’t like nepotism, like outright nepotism, it’s stuff like that. Or, you know, yeah, I’ve seen the it where, you know, oh, the this person is a huge funder to this member of Congress and so, like, just go ahead and give Tommy like, a, an internship blah blah blah. And yeah, so a lot of people will say, oh, these people aren’t applying. Like, I wonder why that is because my parents can’t like, underwrite me living in DC for, like, with no income for, like 18 months. Yeah, maybe that’s why they’re not applying.

Angela Lin 30:16
Okay, well, on that happy note, let’s push into something fun, we’re gonna transition into our closing fortune cookie section because we like to end on a sweet treat. Since it is very clear that you are very passionate about what you do, and you’ve done a lot of really important work, we want to ask you, what is the initiative that you’ve pushed that you’re like most proud of?

Anna 30:41
I was pretty proud of, like getting that website translated. And, you know, it took a really long time for me to you know, I had been working on the Hill probably, like six plus months at that point. And I kid you not, it could not have been from like, a Monday to the, like two Fridays later, like a paycheck period, it could not have taken me longer than that, to get a Google drop down bar on the website. And like find someone working on the Hill, who would translate content for free, it did not take longer than that. I’m like, y’all, I just got here, it took me like, some clearly could have done this a really, really long time ago. So in any job, sometimes you don’t get to see the fruits of your labor in a super tangible way. That would be one of them. While I may not be like a governor or something like that, there are places where, you know, I can do that thing where I’m like, hey, what about this? What about? Like, what if we had our website in blah blah blah? Just, you know, making my voice heard there. Because one of the many reasons why, like lack of representation is terrible is because you know, someone that doesn’t have experiences similar to ours, just they’re not going to think about, like this issue in a certain way. Or just think about you know, how something could or should be done differently. So yeah, just kind of being the squeaky the squeaky wheel. And because maybe like we’re so behind where we need to be in representative politics. Right now I’m like, able to see the progress pretty quickly sometimes.

Jesse Lin 32:32
I think that’s really cool what you said, because I feel like a lot of people are fixated on. I mean, most people are usually fixated on the larger things that people are doing in the government, right, like you’re talking about your like top billing things. But I know I do and many other people do forget, like, there are like huge swathes of people doing like other work that may not be as visible as cool or as flashy, but it’s still like, just as much needed and necessary for other people to get what they need.

Anna 33:02
Yeah, something I had to remember also working in Congress is like incremental change is still change. And you can’t – I think this was Cory Booker that said this – you can’t let your inability to do everything keep you from doing something.

Angela Lin 33:19
Well, if you enjoy this episode, or you have feedback, or you have questions for Anna, write us in. Tell us where you’re from@gmail.com the “YOU’RE” is Y-O-U-R-E. We’d love to hear what you think about our Asian doing cool shit from today.

Jesse Lin 33:36
Awesome. And thank you, Anna, for joining us. This was a really fun conversation.

Angela Lin 33:40
Yeah, super fun

Jesse Lin 33:43
And see you next week again for a new episode.