Jesse Lin 0:14
Hi, I’m Jesse Lin.
Angela Lin 0:15
And I’m Angela Lin. And welcome back to another episode of but where are you really from?
Jesse Lin 0:20
This week, we’re going to get a little intimate with you listeners. And we’re going to have the talk. If you guys remember that talk, you know that it’s related to sex and intimacy. So we wanted to dive right into this. Did you, Angela, get the talk from your parents?
Full Transcript (Note: Transcribed via AI, may contain errors)
Angela Lin 0:42
Absolutely not. There’s no way that they know what the talk is, or dared to talk about it. No, the best that my mom ever did was when I was dating someone. And I told her that he had stayed over, but he just literally like, we just slept. Like there was no nothing happened. But I was like, Don’t worry, like, nothing happened. Literally. We just slept. And she was like, oh, but you could get pregnant. I’m like, do you know how pregnancy works? Like I just told you that we just slept? And she’s like, Yeah, but you’re like, next. Anyways, so that indicated to me that her even her understanding of sex and how pregnancy works is maybe not that crisp. So certainly she was never trying to teach me that herself. How about you?
Jesse Lin 1:37
I don’t think my parents had the birds and the bees talk with me either. Because..well, I think there are a couple reasons. But one of the first reasons is probably that we learned about it in school, and I had to get a consent form signed by my parents. And so I explained to them yeah, we’re getting this course. And it’s gonna, like walk me through, like sex and stuff. But no, they never really had really a conversation about it. Okay, so I think my mom caught me watching porn one time. This was like, in the, like, the dial up days. So it was like, it took so long to load that, like, I’m not even sure she saw anything. But like, literally the next day, my dad had this conversation with me on the car being like, you should stay away from things that are like sexual in nature. And I was like, okay, like, this is kind of, like, I didn’t connect those things. I was like, this is kind of coming a little left field and weird. And also like, how do you know, I know what sexual nature if you never talk to me about sex, like, like looking back on it and kind of like, what does that what does that even mean for him? Like? Yeah, like is a like a pinup girl sexual nature or is like full nudity? Or like, what is that? So definitely, no, we did not get the talk from the parents.
Angela Lin 2:57
I yeah, I don’t know. I think there were many reasons why I looked at sex as like taboo growing up and there’s like many Asian element Asian cultural upbringing elements to a family upbringing elements to it, but I also think being surrounded by like a lot of you know, big Christian community and knowing that everyone was like waiting till marriage for sex and stuff like that. That definitely also played into my like concept of when it’s appropriate to have sex for the first time and beyond.
Jesse Lin 4:16
Honestly, I think that kind of made it worse because then you didn’t really get information from like trusted sources. So like people would make stuff up about about parts and sex and stuff like other stuff about like other myths. I can’t remember like, I remember there was one where it was like all girls have hymens and the hymen is like everybody has that. It’s like this thing you pop when you have sex with a girl that for the first time. And I’m like, I don’t think that’s real.
Angela Lin 4:46
Wait..
Jesse Lin 4:47
Wait, what’s happening here?
Angela Lin 4:49
Hold on , I don’t think the myth is that every woman has a hammer. And I think that it’s true that every woman has a hymen. But I think the myth is that the only the way to break the hymen is through sex.
Jesse Lin 5:03
Yes, yes.
Angela Lin 5:05
Yes, everyone has a hymen.
Jesse Lin 5:07
Yes, I misspoke.
Angela Lin 5:08
Okay. I was like, What?
Jesse Lin 5:10
Everyone has one, but like the idea was that like, it’s somehow this, like, everyone has it the same way where it’s like this barrier that gets popped the first time you have sex. And that’s like, not a real thing.
Angela Lin 5:22
Yeah, that’s definitely a myth because and I don’t remember where I first where they like debunked that myth. It might have been during sex ed or I don’t know, but there are like many ways you can break your hymen before like, I distinctly remember the easiest one to remember was like horseback riding, you know, something where it’s like, there’s like…
Jesse Lin 5:41
You slut
Angela Lin 5:42
…your your vagina is hitting something hard. That is not a penis. And it can break. And yeah, no, but I remember that for sure. Because the, like stigma that’s attached to a torn hymen, right? It’s like, Oh, my God, then you’re not a virgin you’re a slut. Yeah. So that, yeah, that was definitely one. Let’s get into many of the factors that kind of like shaped our perception of sex. And we loosely touched on it before, but in general, I do feel like in Asian culture, at least the way families raise their kids, it’s pretty taboo to talk about sex. Like, I think it’s fairly common that most Asian kids did not grow up ever having the talk with their parents, because that’s just not a subject that they want to have. Why do you think that is?
Jesse Lin 6:35
So I’m not super sure. I kind of feel like part of the I feel like there might be some like historical roots of it, because I just remember, like a few fables or tales from the past where you have like, Chinese emperors or like court officials who were like, met their downfall because they were like lustful. And they tied that to like, like to sin and like, they lost control of their lives pursuing this lust. So I think there’s definitely some like cultural, historical backing around sex, specifically sex for pleasure, rather than sex for procreation. Because I kind of feel like, I’ve never heard a story where it’s like, oh, they procreated, like they had sex for a baby and that was bad. It’s usually like, they had sex with multiple people and it was fun, and that’s bad. So so then you really only do sex for procreation…
Angela Lin 7:35
Yeah.
Jesse Lin 7:36
…and let’s face it, like, if you’re just doing sex to have babies, you’re not going to be doing sex enough to know exactly what you want. So it’s just gonna be a not fun experience overall, which probably means you didn’t have a lot sex, so then you probably didn’t have a lot of experience to pass down, like, what to do during sex, because it’s really just the procreation part of it.
Angela Lin 7:58
Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. And I feel like there’s so much to unpack in what you just said. But for sure. One thing I agree with is that the way Asian people look at sex is that it has one main purpose and that is to pass down the family lineage by having children. So that’s your main reason why you should be having sex. I also think another part of what you said is very true, which is like when you go back into fables and stuff, but like continued on into modern times, it’s they do talk about this, like lustfullness in a bad way. And it’s always the woman that’s like, enticing the men you know, like seducing the man and like bringing him vice and sin and like his downfall. Right. And I, I think that ties a lot into the gender specific roles that Asian people, especially older generations place on the respective genders. And it’s like, okay, well, men are like more prone to having these sexual feelings. It’s still bad for them to act on them. But it’s not their fault, because it’s the women that are like corrupting them. And because of that kind of feeling. It’s also kind of implied that like, women don’t ever have the right to want to seek pleasure for themselves, because they’re always kind of this like secondary object, kind of to men. They’re like the supporting role. There’s not like the woman first, and then the man seduced her kind of thing. Like it’s always one way. And like, that’s definitely how I was raised in terms of thinking like, you know, it’s bad for you to think about sex and like you shouldn’t have sex. It’s like, the only time you should have sex is after you’re already married and you’re ready to have kids because that’s the only like, acceptable format for a woman to be having sex. Otherwise you’re like a loose girl. And you’re gonna disgrace us and you know, they’re just all these like underlying things because as a woman, you’re not allowed to have those desires and to act on them. Hmm. I also think there’s a second narrative that is spun a lot, which is that women are supposed to be this like, very innocent, pure type of character. And the only time sex comes into play is when there was like a predatory kind of like, man, yeah, that’s trying to impose their sexual will. And then, and like, how is that supposed to make me feel as like a young, you know, like a 12 or 13 year old? I’m like, oh, okay. So men are always trying to like, rape me essentially. Like, that’s like the narrative is, oh, you’re you never have those feelings. You’re just this like, innocent little thing. That’s just like living your life. And then suddenly, men are going to like up here and want this out of you and like, force it on you.
Jesse Lin 11:08
It’s I think it’s also bad in sense because it, it kind of implies that your only value to a man is that.
Angela Lin 11:15
Yes, yeah.
Jesse Lin 11:17
And something else interesting. You brought up and part of the reason why I feel like women who have sex are painted in such a bad light is because they’re the foil to the innocent woman, right? The image of the woman who has sex is smart. Bitch, if I only had a body in the 1800s, and I could fuck my way to the top. You bet I would. You know what I mean like, she’s, she’s smart. And so I think that they also paint that lady in a bad light, that kind of woman in a bad light. Because you’re supposed to be innocent. You’re supposed to be dainty and hopeless and blah, blah, blah.
Angela Lin 11:53
Yeah. And be saved by the man because you can’t do it for yourself. Yeah. Very interesting. I also feel like I grew up in a very, like, weird way where again, like, we never talked about sex, really. But it was like, implied it exists, right? And like it would come up in like weird ways. So my family I think we talked about this, but we always went to Vegas every year for Christmas for like the first 20 years of my life. And you know, Vegas is dirty, and just like grimy, but they’re always like, people on the streets, like, you know, they’re trying to like give you playing cards of like, nude women. And then they’re like ladies that are standing outside their strip clubs or whatever, who are scantily clad and like, trying to get men in. And I remember one time, I was like, Dad, you’re so gross. We walked by, like we were as a family walking down somewhere in Vegas, and we passed by some stripper essentially, in front of her establishment. And she was just like, oh, you know, like, trying to get people to come in and we pass by, and my dad make it made a joke. And he was like, oh, you guys will wait for me, right? I’ll just head on in and I was like, Dad, you’re fucking digusting. It’s just like, but the fact that he felt like it was okay to make that kind of joke in front of his family gave me the impression that within this like, Asian type of upbringing, besides not speaking about sex ever. The other weird element is that, like, it’s implied that everyone knows that men are always like, thinking about sex and like trying to have sex and like watching porn and like, doing all these things, and like, it’s frowned upon, but it’s like, okay.
Jesse Lin 13:43
Boys will be boys kind of situation.
Angela Lin 13:44
Yeah, exactly. And that was so disturbing for me for so many reasons. But I was just like, Fuck that. That’s not okay.
Jesse Lin 13:54
What do you think are the consequences of not learning about sex outside of like the anatomy of sex and like the mechanics of procreation?
Angela Lin 14:06
So many consequences, I don’t know for you. But for me it like, I think fucked me up as a very dramatic way to talk about it. But I do think it stunted my growth in a lot of ways. Because we’ve talked about in our relationships, right, like, romantic side that taking sex out of the equation, just like having a serious relationship with someone else. We felt stunted from not learning a lot about like communicating emotions from our families, right. And similarly, sex goes along with that as well. And because we, both of you, and I didn’t start dating until later in our lives. Similarly, I didn’t have sex and for the first time until later in my life, so I always felt weird. Like I felt really weird, I think because the media also always portrays like you’re supposed to lose your virginity in high school or something. Like, it’s always like, oh, when you’re like, super young is when that’s normal. So then I kind of felt like, every year I got older, and I didn’t have sex yet. I was like, super weird. And it was like, grating on me. Because I think when I was younger, I used to tell myself like, oh, you know, it’s fine, because I sold myself that like abstinence story, where I was like, oh, you should only have sex, if you’re like, in love. Well, first, it was like, if you’re married, which is like, so extreme, right, and then I got older, and I like dialed it back from to marry to two in love with, um, like, I mean, that’s the bare minimum, right? Like you, you don’t want to give away this like the goods to someone you’re not even in love with it. So I always hold on to this like very, like, idealistic fairytale, like, I’m going to be in love with the person that I have sex with for the first time. And then the reality is, life doesn’t work that way. And, and, like, I wasn’t in a relationship, or I felt that closely with someone for a long, you know, for many years of my life. And so I had to, like, eventually learn that it’s okay, to not have these, like, super strict confines around when it’s appropriate or not to lose my virginity. And then past that point, like, the frequency with which I’m allowed to have sex and things like that. The these all came later to me in life. And I think like the majority, quote, unquote, of people based on how the media portrayed, like, when was appropriate for that kind of milestone to have happened. And because of that, everything else just like snowballs from there, right. Like, because I started late then there are like, other consequences to that. So I do think it had a big impact on on my, like, sexual growth and, you know, knowledge around myself. You?
Jesse Lin 16:57
I agree. But in a different way, again, our paths diverge. So, I think because I was really curious about sex. And I was also trying to find like myself, because I was just coming to terms with the fact that I only like men and not women. I did start having sex in high school. But the problem for me with it, I think, is that I equated sex with love, and intimacy. And so it became kind of like, a really bad drug for me, because like, I would sleep with somebody, and then, you know, be into them want to hang out with them, we’re trying to try to develop at least some kind of like relationship with them. And, you know, now I understand I have to get a picture, like, it’s a better picture that like, you can just sleep with someone. And that’s cool. And like one time, and that’s fine. But at the time, I was like, still in high school, right? So like, having that happen where you like sleep with someone, then they’re like, not interested to you at all. Like, I didn’t understand that. And so like, that was just like a negative feedback loop where I was like, okay, now I need to find more, then it was like more rejection. So it was like, kind of like that, where I had the experience where, because I didn’t have authoritative figures in my life explaining to me that these things were different that like sex and love are not the same thing. I internalized that from the media, from seeing these depictions of people having sex and always being in love. And kind of, yeah, it just became kind of like a bad thing for me. Fun, but bad thing for me. So I had a different different kind of experience there because I internalized it a different way.
Angela Lin 18:53
Interesting. I learned something new about you every day, even though I’ve known you my whole life. Secrets.
Jesse Lin 19:00
A woman’s heart is an ocean of secrets.
Angela Lin 19:07
Okay, well, so we already kind of hinted at it, but it seems like both you and I learned the majority of what we knew about sex through the media, but that’s not life, right? So like, Where Where did you? Where did you start learning the real shit about what it takes to not just have sex, like mechanics and whatever but like to build real intimacy with a partner and things like that?
Jesse Lin 19:35
Yeah, um, well, the sex part of it was just mainly trial by fire. I mean, once you have enough sex with people, you’re kind of like, okay, I know how to do these specific things. The intimacy thing, honestly, it came like a lot later in life because like, I I just never had someone stopped me and be like, what are you doing like sex and love are not same things. And so I didn’t understand that until like, a lot later, I feel like I didn’t really get that until like I left, or was like, in the middle of college when I started to be like, oh, okay, I don’t have to sleep with like everybody, I need for them to like me. And like I can, you know, be friends with people without sleeping with them. So. And then, like, once I was able to get into a relationship that wasn’t just all about, like physical intimacy, then I understood kind of what the difference was, and what kind of work it takes to develop a physical relationship with someone and what kind of work it takes to develop a like emotional relationship with someone. And then it just, it’s kind of the same way with sex. It’s like practice, like you go through the motions, trial by fire, you see people break up with people, crush on people, all that stuff. And that gives you more experience until you feel comfortable enough with your own process of developing a relationship and you know, what you want in a partner. What about you?
Angela Lin 21:05
Yeah, definitely a lot of trial and error. Like you’re saying, honestly, it was very clunky learning all these things like actual sex. Very clunky. It was like a lot of googling, and like, me, kind of like scaring myself with what I was finding on Google and like hyping shit too much. And it was also because a lot of my friends are still but like, more goody two shoey or you know, up until that point. So there was no one where I felt comfortable being like, hey, here’s the reality, I’ve never had sex. I just need someone to like, tell me what to expect. There was no one like that, that I can really like turn to. So it was just like a shame for like secret googling for a lot of it. Until you know, things actually happened. And then the whole time was just like, is this what sex is? It was just like, so confused the whole time? I’m like, I don’t get why people like this. It was you know, because the media, right like paints your first time as such a magical and like, easy moment that like, you’ll, you’ll just get it and like everything will just like happen. And the reality is, that’s not what most people’s first times are like, and mine was certainly not like that. And I was just like, I don’t even get this. Like why. And then the intimacy part is I also struggled with that quite a bit. Because I think similarly with you, I think I did try to equate sex and love together, especially because I had this like weird thinking about like, you can only have sex if you are in love with someone, right? Which is just not the reality of like, why a lot of people have sex. And so even though I was like, if anything, I kind of feel like because I wouldn’t have sex with people until after a certain point. I was like, hornier than most people. Because I was like bottling myself up because I wouldn’t let myself get past a certain point. So, yeah, so I always had this like, you know, lustful desire. But then I knew that that was like, one part of it. Right? Like, lust is one thing love is another thing, theoretically, I knew that. But I definitely was just like, you were it was like, okay to have this, like, intimate, you know, time with someone. And then I’d be like, glued to my phone being like, when are they going to text me? And like, when are we moving into, like, the next age? And you know, it was just like, a lot of rejections of people being like, that’s not what this was for me to realize, like, Oh, yeah, that’s not what this was. And that’s not what it needs to be for anyone moving forward. And I think the intimacy piece comes with knowing that intimacy doesn’t even have to have anything to do with sex. Like, you can feel really intimate with someone by the connection that you have with them emotionally by, you know, the values and perspectives that you share and like, feeling that it’s the heart part of it, right. I feel like that’s the difference is like sex is the like, literal mechanics and the you know, physical part of it and intimacy is the emotional connection part of it. So I think, once I started having relationships with people where I felt that connection emotionally, then I realized like, okay, these are two different things, but also, they play into each other, right? So it was, it was definitely trial and error googling lots of mistakes, and then like a very slow growth into the right direction. I just, I feel like sex is one of those things that like you’re never gonna know everything about honestly. And something that I am still working on myself is like knowing what makes me happy. Because they’re like, I think that’s something I denied myself a lot. Growing up, because of this constant feedback of like, sex is bad wait to have sex, like don’t have sex. So I was constantly telling myself that and then it would, I would feel guilty, you know, when I’d have those desires. And so I didn’t explore my body and like, what made me excited or things like that when I was growing up, and I’m like, catching up now. So actually, for women out there who are also kind of like, still on this self discovery journey for yourself. There’s this really cool platform I found a few years back, and it’s called OMG. Yes. And it’s a women made platform where they like interviewed 1000s of women about what turns them on, and like, what specific techniques and things like that are, like pleasurable for them. And it’s, it’s kind of funny, because it sounds like porn, but it’s not really porn, because it’s educational. But there are like, literal tutorial videos of like women, real women. So it’s not like porn stars, or just like perfect body people. It’s like, women of all ages and body types. And they explain like different techniques that they use on themselves or a partner helps them with and that like really works for them. So I would recommend, and we’re not sponsored by them, so you know, it’s legit. But yeah, that’s been a really cool platform, because I feel like there’s a very lacking education around like women pleasuring themselves, and how that how that happens, because porn is largely geared towards men. Right? And, and there’s like, very little female oriented porn. But even so porn is not educational. So there’s just like, they realize there was this gap, and they filled it. And I’m, like, very happy that they did, because I always felt super weird, not knowing what could work for me. And then I’m like, oh, there are 1000s of women that helped build this platform. That must mean, I’m not weird, because other people need this too.
Jesse Lin 27:11
Well, I think we talked a lot about sex and intimacy, intimacy, you guys probably know way too much about us now. So we’re gonna move on to our Fortune Cookie closing segment, because we always like to end the episode with something sweet. So we wanted to give each other and you guys our best advice about sex and intimacy. Angela?
Angela Lin 27:39
Yeah, mine is already tied to what I was saying before about this platform. But I, largely speaking, I feel like a big piece of advice is just getting to know your body more yourself, like without a partner, because there’s a lot you can learn about, like, what turns you on what feels good, what like angles work, you know, I think, a lot you can do on your own. And then once you learn those things about yourself, it’s about communication, because I feel like much like with everything else in our relationships. Communication is so key, because I think a lot of times, you just assume that the other person will kind of like, get it or like, know what works for you. And you’re just like waiting for something to happen, that is not happening. Versus if you just tell them outright, like, okay, move this way, or, like, try this, or actually don’t do that. I don’t like that. Like, that’s how you actually learn what’s going to work when there’s two people, right, and two or more people involved. So I would highly recommend learning about your own body first, and or having that little exploration and then communicating what you’ve learned to your partner.
Jesse Lin 28:53
I think that’s great advice. Thank you for sharing that. I’m definitely very much that very much what you said. But I will add, like, know what you want and stick to it. And that’s not I’m not just talking about like knowing your own, like what makes you pleased in sex, but also like, how comfortable you are doing something and how far you want to go with someone and all that stuff. Like that’s your power. And you should never give that away to anyone. So if you’re in a situation and you’re like, hey, I don’t like this leave. Yeah, if someone else is in the same situation, they’re like, I don’t like this. Let them go. Like everyone should be free to make their own choices about it, and know yourself and enforce what makes you feel comfortable, because that’s what makes sex fun.
Angela Lin 29:46
Agreed.
Jesse Lin 29:47
Yeah.
Angela Lin 29:47
Well, thank you for that very good PSA for everyone. Well, yeah, like you said, now we and know you know too much about us. And so it’s your turn. We’d like you to write us in on anything that you want to share around this topic, whether it was the way that your upbringing kind of affected your outlook on sex and intimacy, or if you have advice that you want to share with other people, or whatever it is. I think there’s a lot of fun and interesting stuff around this topic. So write us in telluswhereyourefrom@gmail.com the YOU’RE is Y-O-U-R-E.
Jesse Lin 30:30
Send us naughty stories, but not too naughty.
Angela Lin 30:34
Maybe like PG-13 naughty, up to R-rated is what we would like to receive.
Jesse Lin 30:40
This is the last episode of this season. And as with last season, we’re taking a breaky-break to rejuvenate our brains. Yes. So we will see all of you lovely listeners in…
Angela Lin 30:54
…a month or two, something like that, or two, whatever. We’ll announce it, you’ll know but we’ll leave back. Don’t worry. We’ll come back with another season of fresh new content, new guests, a lot of cool fun stuff. But like Jesse said, we need we need a break so that we can come back and give you the good stuff. All right.