Angela Lin 0:23
Today we have a very special guest, my brother. That’s right. Want to introduce yourself to the listeners and tell them where you’re really from?
Full Transcript (Note: Transcribed via AI, may contain errors)
Johnny 0:40
Well, I was actually born in Taiwan. Unlike Angela. Yeah. I grew up here though. So I moved here when I was six years old, a long, long time ago. And I grew up in Irvine, California, just like Angela. So yeah.
Angela Lin 0:58
Nice. And yeah, Jesse whispered this well, while I was introducing my brother, but let’s just set the record straight that Jesse and I are not related. And my real brother is now on this episode.
Johnny 1:57
Although many people think Jesse is part of our family.
Angela Lin 2:00
Yeah, it gets very confusing for people because we have the same last name and Jesse and Johnny. So it’s like two j names. So especially on social media, I feel like people get confused when they see like us interacting with each other.
Jesse Lin 2:15
Yeah, I also I feel like I’m in more of your like photos from recent because we were like, actually in this well, recently, in a few years ago when you were still in the city, but like we were actually in the same location for a while.
Angela Lin 2:29
Well, okay, so if you guys haven’t guessed today’s episode is all around the concept of siblings, and how growing up with a sibling or without a sibling kind of impacted our experiences growing up and like my brother and I are very different, you’ll probably see on this episode. So just getting down to kind of like, how, what contributed to that? And how do we see our identities differently or similarly. So one thing we wanted to first talk about is comparing and contrasting like, whether or not you had a sibling going up. So Jesse, what even though everyone thought you were my brother, you actually are an only child. So like, what was that like growing up? And do you always wish you had a sibling? Or were you like I’m chill, I’m the star?
Jesse Lin 3:24
Yeah, it is quite interesting. It’s a little hard to, it’s a little hard to say because I don’t, I don’t have a sibling, as you mentioned. So I don’t really know what the experience is like to necessarily have a sibling like you can see from the outside and you’re like, okay, it looks something like this. But you don’t really know. But I will say what I think the differences are, at least for me, I feel like I had a lot more pressure than my friends who had siblings, because you have, I will just say it in the most blunt way possible. Like your parents don’t have to put all their eggs in a basket. Basically, there are more baskets that they can eggs in. And so the pressure is more distributed in the sense even though we’ve talked about like, the firstborn usually carries like all of the pressure or if it’s a guy, it might, he might carry all the pressure. But I generally feel like my friends with more siblings, there was a little less pressure overall, because there’s more of you. And so, you know, if one of you fucks up, there’s still like a few more of you that your parents can put their stakes on. So number one, I felt like there’s a lot more pressure. Number two, I definitely there are points of my childhood growing up where I felt really lonely because I didn’t really have anyone to share the pressures or expectation or things that my parents were telling me that I had to live up to or do with. So from that perspective it was a little bit lonely sometimes because it just felt like I couldn’t, I couldn’t find anybody who would understand the situation that I was in at the time in terms of how I was feeling and reacting to the pressures and stuff. And the last one I will say is the good one is that now that I look back on it, I feel really blessed in a way to I’ve been an only child because now I understand kind of the financial situation that my parents had been in and like are still in and just thinking about having another sibling that would have been quite impossible from from the money standpoint, and it would have made everything like 50 million times harder. So I am really glad from that perspective, like not to have to split anything with anyone. Yeah.
Angela Lin 5:53
Interesting. And, okay, well, first of all, I feel weird, because every time I want to say my brother’s name, so his name is Johnny, but my parents like can’t pronounce that. So his, the way we pronounce it at home is like Joan-ney, like, Joan, with like, Joanie. Joanie? Joanie. Yeah. Anyways, Joanie. Um, so I’m gonna ask you, because I feel like so. So for those who don’t know, he’s seven years older than me. So we are siblings, I’m the younger, but that’s a huge age gap. So like, you were the only child for a long time. And like you said, you were you were six, when you moved to the USA, like your entire time in Taiwan, you were an only child, right? Until our parents had me. So what was that? Like? Like? Did you were you like, fuck this? I have to share attention now with like a younger sibling, or what was that? Like, when you suddenly had like, another person you had to share the spotlight with?
Johnny 7:04
I mean, honestly, I was very young when, you know, I was seven years old. Yeah, you know, you were born. And so I didn’t remember, like, half my life before that, really, you know, I didn’t have any real memories of Taiwan until I was like, five, four or five, actually. So in terms of remembering Taiwan, I only remember like two years of it. And honestly, having you was actually exciting, because it was kind of lonely. Like we we moved here without any friends. But I thought it was kind of interesting having you like, you know, because it was like, you know, a new thing. I don’t think I was like the jealous little brother. Because, like, I don’t think my our mom gave us any attention. And like, she doesn’t really play favorites. I realized, like, our mothers I think so like, I feel like she does it. And so she never like doted me. And then, like, when you came, she started paying all the attention to her. Uh you I mean, so I don’t really feel like it was different. And actually just, it was more exciting to me to have like a little sister.
Angela Lin 8:20
That’s funny. Nice. What about so I mean, this podcast is all about our kind of, like, mixed identities, right? Because we’re both were both Taiwanese and American. But your experience is very different than well, not very different. But it’s different than mine. because like you said, you were born in Taiwan. You actually grew up partially there and you do have some memories. It’s not like it’s like deep deep memories, but you have memories of being raised there and then actually having moved to the US versus like us is all I know we’ve visited Taiwan for sure, but like I never lived there. And I feel like I remember you telling the stories of like having a hard time assimilating…
Johnny 9:09
Oh yeah.
Angela Lin 9:09
What was that like when you first you know, moved here and like started going to school here and like, people made fun of you or like, what was that like?
Johnny 9:18
Okay, so we started first grade in Cerritos and it was like a mainstream school so basically, it was just the typical public school elementary school and then I didn’t know any English I could barely say ABC without I said ABC with an accent. And so everything was like foreign to me. And I just remember being my my, I don’t I don’t remember but mom kind of said that I was bullied by like, apparently these Korean this Korean boy or something
Angela Lin 9:51
What the hell is that I hate that. It’s like other Asian people.
Johnny 9:55
And I was crying and I wasn’t having fun. So apparently, they knew someone who, who knew about this bilingual school. So it was this teacher from Taiwan who also spoke English. And then basically it was pretty rare back then. But it was like an immersion school. And in Cerritos they had a bilingual immersion school Chinese English, so they would teach half the class in English and half the class in Chinese. And so they pulled me out of the mainstream school, and then they put me in this immersion school, and I have the best time of my life. At least my little life then it was like, I made so many friends. And like, I just, I remember having like a lot of friends and like everyone’s, you know, I could identify with because they were speaking both Chinese and English. So it was and I picked up English so quickly, like I was almost fluent, by the year end. Yeah. And like, I remember hearing myself like in recordings, like it was so different, like my English. And then. But unfortunately, we moved to Irvine, so I didn’t really get to, but I was there for a year. And it was actually a really good experience. So having that bilingual immersion school, that really changed, like, my feeling towards coming here, because I think I was miserable the first month or so. So after I moved to Irvine, they integrated me back into mainstream elementary school, but they would pull me out for an hour a day, to go to ESL, and so just an hour a day, and then I was with like five other ESL kids, like I remember, one was like Hispanic, and I don’t remember the people there that well. But it was just, you know, a little additional training beyond the mainstream. But I didn’t go to an immersion school after that. And then I was an ESL for maybe three more years after that until fifth grade. And then I moved out of ESL.
Angela Lin 11:56
And I feel like so well, what was that like still learning English? And also because like, you’re saying that was only one hour a day once you were back in just normal public school? So like, how was integrating into the rest of the classroom with people that, you know, were native English speakers? Did they like, welcome you? Did it feel hard to make friends with them? Like, what was that experience like?
Johnny 12:24
I feel like, after my year in the immersion program, I was near fluent. And then when I moved to Irvine, back then Irvine wasn’t as like diverse as it was today. I think, well, early 90s. But basically, it was just the Asian population wasn’t as big. So I was one of the few Asians in my class, actually in Irvine. And I just remember being made fun of like, for my nose, and like my eyes, like, actually, kids would tease me and stuff for that. So I was still bullied. But mainly not for my English, but mainly for my Asian appearance. And I, and I just remember, I was closer to, you know, someone from like, a Hispanic background. I remember, like, a kid that was Hispanic that I made friends with or like Persian, I didn’t identify as well with like, the Caucasian Americans and in my class, because they were the ones making fun of me. Yeah, so it was more that than my English.
Angela Lin 13:30
See this, I remember you telling me this and not like me, and not really understanding that because it feels like our age gap is a significant number of years. But it’s not like we’re a different generation, right? Like, we’re not that far apart. So then when I think back on my childhood, I definitely, to your point, Irvine has changed a lot since we were kids. So like now it’s probably like, I don’t know, 60/40 Asian people to white people or other other races. But back then, at least when Jesse and I were growing up, it was probably more like, the reverse, right? Like, I don’t know, 40% Asian or something. But I definitely wasn’t like the only Asian kid in my class. And it didn’t feel like I was so different from other people. So when you told me those experiences of getting bullied for how you looked, I was like, I don’t even I don’t even get that because I never had that experience. But it must have been so hard. Because you went from especially coming from a country where everyone looks like you, like has similar features. And then suddenly being told your features are like weird.
Johnny 14:43
Kids would make fun of you because they realized I looked more like an immigrant you’re gonna like look more like a FOB. Like basically my clothes look like a FOB and I kind of spoke maybe with a little accent. So I think I you know, was a little bit different from other Asian Americans that grew up. Yeah. But that was basically before middle school. Yeah. And then I just remember, you know, even kids were like, I remember. Okay, so I was getting the mail once for mom, for mom. And then these neighborhood kids would come. And they’re like, oh, look at your shorts. And then they’d actually pull my shorts down, and I started crying. I was like, yeah
Angela Lin 15:23
What a kid stereotype thing to do.
Johnny 15:27
Yeah. So. And it was, it was interesting, because I didn’t, I didn’t like, see a difference between like, Asians who made fun of me and like non-Asians, like, I treated them both equally, like, but in the end, I feel like, you know, I identified more with the Asian kids in the class. Yeah, who were Asian and non non non white, like the Hispanic or the Persian. Yeah. So a lot of my friends were non white, growing up,
Jesse Lin 15:58
I also kind of feel like maybe our experience like, Angela, your and I’s is a little bit different. Because we, we did, we were born here. So my perspective on it, like, as far as I can remember, as a kid is that like, you go to preschool, then you go to kindergarten, but for the most part, if you stay in this school year, in the same, you’re with the same cohort of people, more or less, so you, it’s less the same experiences you because we’re coming in at a period where kids aren’t as mean, you know, they’re younger, they’re less exclusionary. And they’re more like, cuz I remember when I went to pre0school, I didn’t know any English, but I still had a blast, not being able to say anything to anybody. So I feel like being here, and having that made it, made us experience a little less of the bullying because we are we were part of a cohort of people that were growing through the different grades. So it’s like less easy to pick us out and single us out because we had been there from the beginning, essentially.
Johnny 17:02
But Jesse, that’s a good point. Because actually, we moved around a lot. Like we probably moved like eight to 10 times on our, you know, life. So I don’t know why, but like, my parents like to move. So. And actually, if you remember, our cousins lived with us, too. Yeah, yeah. So like, we have two cousins that lived with us. And so we had a big house. And then when they moved to college, we moved again. We had we bought a house, but we sold it because to make profit off of that house. We’ve moved a lot and so I didn’t really have like a stable, like, educational experience. I think for you Angela, though, like it was better because maybe a lot of the moving was done before you really started school.
Angela Lin 17:52
Yeah, it wasn’t too bad. I remember crying about it once. And it was because the move I – the only one I remember is from like kindergarten to first grade. We we changed like the school, not the school district because it was all the Irvine School District. But like, the way it worked was depending on which neighborhood you lived in, you went to a certain elementary school or whatever. So to Jesse’s point, like I had already had this cohort built up from kindergarten, I had like my best friend who was a Japanese American girl. And I was like, I’m stoked to continue with these friends. And then, and then our parents were like, we’re moving and now you’re gonna go to a different elementary school than them and I was like, no, so that’s the only one I remember. Okay, well, let’s also talk about like, I already hinted at that Jesse and I rejected our Asianness growing up. I’m curious what that experience was like for you, because you literally came from Asia. And I’m sure there was part of you that was, you know, you’re trying to immerse as much as possible so that the bullying would stop. But did you ever feel like you wanted to reject that part of you? Or were you just like, I’m just trying to figure out how to be both and like, I’m proud to be Taiwanese.
Johnny 19:07
I, I’m a little different from you two, because I actually really embraced my Asian culture. Like, I was proud of the fact that I could speak both Chinese and English. And like, when I went to a Chinese environment, I felt comfortable like Chinese school, I’d love Chinese school, you know, and then we would go back to Taiwan every summer I loved going back to Taiwan, because I felt like I was like popular and I was like, people like got me when I was in an Asian environment like and I understood them, like I identified more as an Asian person than as an American. Because I was made fun of when I was in American school and teased and so when I went back to Asia, I felt like I was the popular kid, like everyone wanted to know, oh, it’s the American. They thought of me as an American. Oh the Americans back and he can like, tell us about America. I felt you know, more comfortable and integrated in an Asian environment. I think that being like, bilingual really helps. And, you know, being able to speak Chinese. And so, for me, I did not reject my Asian culture at all, like I, I loved Asian culture, like I wanted to, you know, listen some more like Chinese pop music,
Angela Lin 20:23
Oh you loved Jay Chou
Unknown Speaker 20:25
And Jolin Tsai, like every one of those people. And like, I embraced it, like I loved Asian food I loved, you know, Asian culture. But speaking to like, my Chinese or Taiwanese friend, they’re like, oh, no, you don’t want to grow up in Taiwan. Like, as a kid, it’s very stressful, it’s very, you know, like high pressure. So in a way, it’s like, maybe I got the best of both worlds by, you know, being bilingual and being able to, you know, speak Chinese, but also growing up in America, because I didn’t have to go through all that, you know, pressure of growing up as a kid and in Asia, and so forth. But for me, like I embraced Asian culture, I almost preferred being a FOB.
Angela Lin 21:09
Well, let’s dig into a couple other ways that your experience was different than mine, or Jesse’s. One big difference is that you were the older the oldest child, and we all know and a boy. So we all know that in many Asian cultures, being the son, or like, the eldest son has like different connotations, and being either a younger son or like younger daughter, or you know, a different sibling, because there’s expectations that come with that, like you’re supposed to carry on the family name, and like the pride and the legacy of the Lin family or whatever. So did any of that feel like how much of that pressure did you feel growing up? And, and how did that affect you?
Unknown Speaker 22:00
Well, as a kid, I didn’t know any of that. Like, our parents didn’t really emphasize, you know, that as we growing up. But it was more when I became an adult. And I just remember the time, when I came out as being gay. That was the time when I realized she had all these internal feelings about carrying on the lineage. Because when I came out, and Angela helped me with that, but basically, she told me, like, you know, that this is the end of our lineage, like, if I don’t have kids, and I can’t have a wife and family. And she said, You know, we’re gonna be a disgrace to our ancestors, who expect us to carry on that lineage. So before that, I didn’t know any of that. And this came out, basically, you know, all her feelings about that came out when I came out. So that was the only time I realized that that mattered to her. Yeah. And before that, though, she never mentioned anything about that.
Jesse Lin 23:11
Well, let’s talk about like, the difference in, like family size between, like our families, and like, what are parents families look like? Because I definitely feel like it’s very different. And there is some, let’s say, bent that it puts on our parents in terms of thinking about how to plan for the future, and like passing along the family name, and all of that, it’s easier when you have more kids, because when you have like few fucked up kids, you still have like, a few more that you can, like, move along. And I feel like our parents still have that idea that they can do that. But they have less kids to do that with. So then it becomes like this intense pressure on you to do all these things that they were also pressured to do, but maybe was actually less pressure, because there are more of them to distribute that responsibility against like, my, my mom has four, four or five sisters, and a brother. And my dad has three brothers, and one sister, and us, we there’s two of you, and one of me. So it’s like a very, the size of the family. And like how many fuck ups a family fuck ups, quote, unquote, a family can survive is much smaller. So I definitely feel like you know, I’m kicking off I feel like there’s there’s definitely some of that pressure that’s just like this mindset that they’re trying to apply here. But there’s like fewer kids to apply to.
Angela Lin 24:44
Yeah, I feel like our parents generation that average size family was somewhere between like five to seven kids, which is a shit ton of kids because yeah, both of our parents sides are also around that size. And I feel like I agree with you that there’s less pressure on each individual kid when you have to, like spread it across so many kids, and you’re just trying to like, make sure they survive, right, you’re like, let me just like have enough money to, and like work hard enough so that they can live. Where I feel like, it’s not totally fair to say they didn’t have like, any pressure going up, because I feel like they had totally different pressures, like a big reason, not just Asian people. But like that whole generation used to have a shit ton of kids is because those kids would be expected to help raise the younger kids and like, earn money for the family. And my mom always talks about how she used to, like sell vegetables in the, in the market with our grandma and stuff, because it was like she do that during the day or night or something and then go to school at night, or vice versa. But she had to, like do both. And how lucky my brother and I are that like we don’t have to do have such hardship to just live. And so they had like, different pressures. It wasn’t like, you have to become a doctor. It’s like, hey, you’re in this family, you’re earning money for our family so that we can all like live.
Johnny 26:13
I think it’s what Jesse says is true. But it is the transitional phase right now in terms of Chinese culture or Taiwanese culture. Definitely, our parents kind of were stuck in between, like they were the first generation I think, that kind of saw the future. Like, before that Chinese culture was very traditional, like, you would you wouldn’t even have heard of anyone not getting married, and having kids. They’re the first generation where they themselves may not have kids or have only one or two. So I think our parents live in a very interesting time in terms of the generational bridge between conservative Asian culture and liberal Asian culture. And I think that puts them into a very interesting struggle, because they’re trying to juggle what their their upbringing is, but then living in the reality that that Chinese and Taiwanese society has changed, you know. And so I think they know that, like, they know how to admit the truth that, you know, we’re currently living in an era where people may not have kids anymore. So definitely, in the generation that we’re in now, it’s almost expected that you only have one or two.
Angela Lin 27:36
I remember. Like, our parents didn’t share much about their upbringing to us, but there were like, little morsels they would share with us because we like pryed it out of them like, oh, when did you and dad meet like, when did you get married? Did you date people before that? You know, we were trying to pry a little bit about this. And I remember our mom saying that my dad is was her only boyfriend. They met when she was 27 or something…
Johnny 28:03
She was 27 he was 30.
Angela Lin 28:05
Yeah. And then and then they got married. So like, I remember when I turned 27. I was like, Fuck, should I be married right now? Like…
Johnny 28:13
And that was considered old in mom’s era.
Angela Lin 28:16
Yes. Yeah, so yeah, I feel like I agree with you that like there, it was weirder for their generation to not already be married and popped out like many kids, by early mid 20s, than it is for us where they, they kind of like rationalize it for us now. They’re like, oh, you’re still in school, you’re like, focus on your career. They’re not so pushy about that.
Johnny 28:47
And I think also growing. I mean, like moving here to the US, you know, exposes them to more liberal mindset, too. So actually, I think in terms of my parents are our parents, at least, they don’t give us any pressure really to have kids. It’s just kind of more subtle, like, subliminal, like, for example, like our dad, we didn’t really talk about our dad, but basically, like, whenever he sees little kids, his face like lights up. I’ve never seen him so happy. Yeah.
Angela Lin 29:20
It’s very like pedo TBH. I’ve told him he needs to stop. Like he gets so giddy when he sees little baby around him. Or toddlers. So he was like, staring at this child he doesn’t know. And like smiling uncontrollably and staring at the child. I was like, Dad, you are like an older man staring at a child that you don’t know.
Johnny 29:45
You know, he never smiles. So the fact that he’s smiling. And then when I asked him like, do you want a grandson or granddaughter? He’s like, Of course I do. Yeah. So it’s it’s more ingrained. It’s not like the give us pressure though.
Angela Lin 29:58
I think there’s also like phases. Because I’m like, I was supposed to get married this year, and you know, it’s pushed but or last year, time doesn’t mean anything. Anyways. And so they haven’t like pushed that on me outright. But Karen, Jesse and my other best friend, she has been married for how many years? I don’t know, like three or four years. And he constantly asks me if she is having a baby anytime soon. Like, I feel like he just latches on to like the scenario. He thinks it’s okay to ask that thing. And it’s kind of like, subliminal. Oh, yes, exactly. Like, Oh, well, you know, I’m asking about her. But really, I’m asking about you too.
Johnny 30:44
I mean, now that they know I’m gay, I mean, you’re the kind of burden now that has to carry for it the Lin family name, even though it’s not going to be the Lin family anymore.
Jesse Lin 30:54
Well, thanks for this conversation, we’re going to transition over to our closing section, which we call the Fortune Cookie. And for the Fortune Cookie, we’re going to have an open season on Angela where we recount the most embarrassing moments of her life to everybody that listen to this podcast.
Johnny 31:14
Okay, let’s make a fun. So, um, if you remember, you’re actually very into Taiwanese drama. Like you loved F4 and you’re like obsessed with them. Like Vaness and what’s the other one? Like?
Angela Lin 31:30
Well I gave them all equal opportunity? But I over-skewed on Vaness?
Johnny 31:35
Yes. And you actually that was why I was surprised when like you started like saying you didn’t like Asian culture because you were very Asian in like middle school.
Angela Lin 31:47
Yeah, it was a two year concentrated Blip. Really Chinese.
Johnny 31:54
You were like super Chinese or Asian and you loved Meteor Garden. You were like singing all their songs.
Angela Lin 32:02
I still remember at least 50% of the lyrics.
Jesse Lin 32:06
Oh my gosh. What’s embarrassing?
Angela Lin 32:13
Most things about our upbringing, but…
Jesse Lin 32:16
Yeah, I there are like so many different moments but I will just say like the period from like middle school to high school was like an excruciating needs to delete. It was like, like, extremely layered hair and like cowlick like the emo girl hair I had.
Angela Lin 32:41
It was it wasn’t it was a permanent cowlick. Grass looking thing at the top of my head.
Jesse Lin 32:49
I guess it’s not a cowlick because the cowlick is like not intentional. But you had you had it like intentionally like that. And oh, girl, that was a look.
Angela Lin 32:58
Well, okay, you got your hands on. You used it. So no more chances now closed. All right. Well, we had a lot of fun talking to you about so many things. So thank you for joining us on this sibling episode. For you listeners if you have a question for my brother, or you liked a certain topic that we got into because I think we talked about a lot actually a lot more than we even thought we’ve talked about. If you have a opinion..
Johnny 33:30
Or if you want to know any secrets about Angela.
Jesse Lin 33:32
Oh, yeah.
Angela Lin 33:34
We’ll see. We’ll see about that. I screen all the emails. But anyways, if you have opinions or feedback or questions you can write us in at Telluswhereyourefrom@gmail.com the you’re is Y-O-U-R-E and reminder that we are still looking for listener story submissions, so write us in about your experience with either this topic or whatever you want.
Jesse Lin 33:56
And come back next week for another episode.